Team Sky Clear out..

Junior

And the clearout at sky over their 'anti doping' stance starts Bobby Julich has left ..

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17553_8194069,00.html

Not really sure what Sky are up to other than a PR exercise ..

Chips Lovell

Full statement from Jullich here.

RobFowl

Team Principal Dave Brailsford said: “Bobby has shown courage in admitting to the errors he made long before his time with Team Sky. We understand that this is a difficult step for him and we’ve done our best to support him.

Mmmm supporting him by giving him the boot..

Nice idea in theory, in practice a double edged sword.
Bobby J will be the first of many I suspect.

CramCycle

I don't get it, he done it in the 90s, he admitted it, he hasn't been involved since working with Team Sky.

There has to be more too it than that.

Chips Lovell

Although no doubt well intended, I don't like Sky's policy. Given how endemic doping was for the best part of two decades, I think those that have doped in the past but are up front and honest about their involvement should have a place in the sport.

Guybrush T

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Although no doubt well intended, I don't like Sky's policy. Given how endemic doping was for the best part of two decades, I think those that have doped in the past but are up front and honest about their involvement should have a place in the sport.

I think your time estimate is around eight decades short, but otherwise I agree. The policy of own up and get sacked or keep quiet and probably keep your job doesn't encourage transparency.

12 sprocket

Junior wrote: »

And the clearout at sky over their 'anti doping' stance starts Bobby Julich has left ..

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17553_8194069,00.html

Not really sure what Sky are up to other than a PR exercise ..

So regardless of what people do their motives are questionable.... so the teams say "SHHHH we'll hide everything! and they are called secretive dopers!! ...................... then Brailsford does something that is very difficult for the team and the rider, which they probably didnt have to do ............ and its a pr exercise?.

so in all honesty reading and following some of the posters on this boards they seem to hold an extremely cycnical and negative outlook on this issue at least and have their own ideas or agenda that no amount of facts will break through.

Flandria

So Brailsford throws Julich under the Sky bus, faces camera and says 'nothing to see here now'. Hmmm, transparent?

RobFowl

12 sprocket wrote: »

So regardless of what people do their motives are questionable.... so the teams say "SHHHH we'll hide everything! and they are called secretive dopers!! ...................... then Brailsford does something that is very difficult for the team and the rider, which they probably didnt have to do ............ and its a pr exercise?.

so in all honesty reading and following some of the posters on this boards they seem to hold an extremely cycnical and negative outlook on this issue at least and have their own ideas or agenda that no amount of facts will break through.

Cynicism which is unfortunately fueled by events.
As recently as this morning I even saw some one acccuse Greg lemond of doping.....
Now thats an extremely cycnical and negative outlook........

Flandria

12 sprocket - I am far too thick to be able to form my own ideas or foster agendas, but decades of incessant cheating, conniving, favouritism and corruption within the sport, right to it's very highest level, at least gives me the right to hold an "extremely cycnical and negative outlook on this issue". Of that, I am proud.

CramCycle

12 sprocket wrote: »

so in all honesty reading and following some of the posters on this boards they seem to hold an extremely cynical and negative outlook on this issue at least and have their own ideas or agenda that no amount of facts will break through.

Its not that if you read back through the thread, I think its a reasonable point, if hes not doping anymore and he is clean as he claims for the last 12 years, why shaft him for telling the truth. It just doesn't make sense.

He came clean, he is clean. There policy seems to be pushing for a don't tell us and hopefully we will never find out policy.

Instead of a last chance to come clean i.e. if its been before you came to us and it hasn't happened since you arrived, we are good to go, just promise never to go down that road again, and admit your flaws now.

el tel

Having read that and assuming it's the whole truth, I feel sorry for Bobby Julich. I feel sorry for him that there will be plenty of other riders and team members who will say nothing and save their skins and keep their jobs.

And as far as I know he never failed a test either? It would have been so easy for him to say nothing.

I'm also sorry for him that there will be other teams who wouldn't have cared enough about a rider's doping past to sack him them. Even riders who have failed tests, let alone riders who have merely confessed.

niceonetom

Has Yates signed yet?

Lumen

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Although no doubt well intended, I don't like Sky's policy. Given how endemic doping was for the best part of two decades, I think those that have doped in the past but are up front and honest about their involvement should have a place in the sport.

I don't see the problem, they can work anywhere else but Sky.

In a previous statement Brailsford said he'd look after anyone forced to leave, financially.

petethedrummer

12 sprocket wrote: »

So regardless of what people do their motives are questionable.... so the teams say "SHHHH we'll hide everything! and they are called secretive dopers!! ...................... then Brailsford does something that is very difficult for the team and the rider, which they probably didnt have to do ............ and its a pr exercise?.

I wouldn't say Sky's attitude means they are doping but they are really lacking in any transparency if they are trying to demonstrate they are clean.

Initially Sky's intention was to hire people with no doping background. Only a FOOL would think some of the guys they hired didn't have a doping background. But maybe Brailsford is simultaneously an overly trusting fool and also the revolutionary genius of modern cycling.

On the Leinders issue.....

“We sat down and realised that as a group of people we did not know enough about looking after people in extreme heat, with extreme fatigue. We were making calls like ‘no, on you go mate’.”

Two days before the start of the Tour, Brailsford talked to Cycle Sport about the decision to hiring Dr Leinders. He admitted that he should have addressed the issue publicly in May, when De Rooy made his claims. However, he said he would not judge until he had determined all the facts.
http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-and-comment/brailsford-addresses-doctor-dilemma-we-are-100-per-cent-clean/

That's fine. A change in position is no problem. They relaxed the rule on staff history. Heat exhaustion is a serious matter. OK. Could have announced it transparently though.

Then when Sean Yates appears hanging out with Motoman they launch an internal investigation.

“Look, we’ve instituted a rule that says only one of our support staff can have dubious connections to potentially dubious characters who may or may not have supplied some sort of doping products in the past. Now we have two that I’m aware of, which is why we’re doing this investigation,” stated Brailsford.
http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/09/team-sky-begins-internal-investigation-amid-allegations/

The new one dodgy person rule was broken!

Asked how the investigation was going. "oh erm eh yeah fine, oh look a zebra."

Cyclingnews asked Brailsford for details on the nature of the supposed investigation – namely, has that internal investigation begun, what does it consist of and when will it conclude?

Brailsford paused before replying: “Well, I think we’re addressing the issue. We’re satisfied with what we’re doing and we’ll come to a conclusion soon.”

A follow-up question was interrupted. “I don’t want to comment on it anymore,” Brailsford said, already edging towards his team bus, before adding: “We’re here to talk about the Worlds, aren’t we?”
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-vague-on-leinders-investigation

Now that the sh!t really has hit the fan in the world of cycling, they are firing people (IMO) to be seen to be doing something. Leinders might have been doing a great job. Why does he get sacked? What about the heat exhaustion? Is PR more important than rider safety? And now they're signing pledges. Lord above.

I am not suggesting Sky are doping, I am suggesting that they are not being transparent. And while they sell us the line that they are so far ahead in training/technology/talent identification/tactics they seem to be utter morons when it comes to checking CVs. If they want to hire these people, then they should hire them and stop acting shocked when someone points out the obvious.

ROK ON

This guy (Brailsford) may be able to manage athletes to achieve success but he has less than zero clue how to operate with other stakeholders.

When he set up Sky he had three goals:
To win the TDF within 5 years with a British rider on a clean team.
He has proved the first two. IMHO given the current malaise in cycling he needs to prove that Sky was a clean team.
Publish all the relevant scientific and biological data of the nine TDF riders.
Publish hlwhat supplements they used.
Publish anything else that will prove the team was clean.

To be clear - I am not speculating that the team doped. But the aim was to win clean. I think be needs to probe that.

I don't demand this if other teams. Omega have never had angoal of winning the northern classics with a Belgian rider on a clean team.
Saxonhave not had a goal of winning the schemes with a Spanish rider on a clean team etc etc.

If he wants to achieve something positive in the PR battle then prove what you set out to achieve and put it up tonevery other team in pro cycling.
It would be a huge PR coup.

Craig06

I think Garmin had the best idea when formed. It was to make sure the team was clean regardless if the background of the riders as long as they remained clean. David Millars book is a great read on doping in the sport.

boomdocker

I had the privelege of meeting Bobby Julich during the summer. As he was stuck beside me on a plane for an hour I took the opportunity to have a good chat.

We had a great discussion, he was open and frank, answered all my questions honestly from what I could tell.

Of all the American riders of the 90' and 00's he was the one, in my view, least under suspicion as he mostly rode with non American teams, and was away from the influence of LA et al.

I feel that Sky's zero tolerance stance is commendable but feel genuinely sorry for a good guy like Julich who's livelihood has now been taken away from him.

petethedrummer

I've written a short play based on job interviews for a cycling team.

Interviewer: Billy Drailsford,
Interviewees: Dr. Reindeers, John Bates, Robby Tulip, Barry Michaels.

Scene 1:
Drailsford: Welcome Dr. Reindeers we're looking for someone with particular expertise in heat exhaustion for cyclists.
Dr. Reindeers: I'm your man, so.
Drailsford: Just looking at your CV here, you have prior experience. You worked for Robabank I see.
Dr. Reindeers: Yes.
Drailsford: Interesting. You were there during the Rosmoosen scandal.
Dr. Reindeers: I was.
Drailsford: See anything untoward going on?
Dr. Reindeers: No.
Drailsford: No doping?
Dr. Reindeers: Nope
Drailsford: You were the team doctor and you noticed nothing?
Dr. Reindeers: Not a thing.
Drailsford: Look me in the eye now, we're trying to run a clean team.
Dr. Reindeers: Absolutely nothing.
Drailsford: Excellent. You're hired.....just don't go telling everyone you work for us.
Dr. Reindeers Exits.

Drailsford (to audience): Well, this is all going swimmingly. We'll be running this clean team in no time.

petethedrummer

New Character: Carol, The Secretary.

Scene 2:
Carol (via-intercom): A Mr. John Bates to see you.
Drailsford: Send him in. Carol, How is the press release coming along?.
Carol: I've underlined clean everywhere Mr. Drailsford but I need a marginal gain.
Drailsford: Give them ferrets.
Carol: Ferrets?
Drailsford: Ferrets Carol. Tell them we've trained ferrets to run up and down the cracks of their ar5e.
Carol: Fer...
Drailsford: Saves them wasting energy wiping and the fur soothes saddle sores.
Carol: ...rets. Ok. That's done Mr. Drailsford.
Drailsford: Send in Mr Bates, Carol.
Carol: Yes, Mr. Drailsford.

petethedrummer

Scene 3:

Drailsford: Welcome Mr Bates we're looking for a new DS. We need someone who can really get to know the riders. Someone observant who notices the little things going on around him.
Bates: I'm your man, so.
Drailsford: Just looking at your CV here, you have prior experience. You worked for Discography I see.
Bates: Yes.
Drailsford: Interesting. I've heard alot of nasty rumours about some unpleasantness in relation to unmentionables on that team.
Bates: Really?
Drailsford: Really! You didn't notice anything untoward going on?
Bates: Not a thing.
Drailsford: Come on now. We need a man with a keen eye for this job.
Bates: If it went on, I would have seen it. 'Hawkeye'' they called me.
Drailsford: Well look me in the eye Mr Hawkeye.
Bates: Not a sausage.
Drailsford: Excellent. You're hired.....try to keep in shape yourself, it sends a good message to the riders.
Bates: Yeah, I'm always out with my buddy Motorman.
Drailsford: Motorman? What a curious name.
Bates: Erm. Yeah. he has a motorbike? Loves anything two-wheeled.
Drailsford: I see. Does he work in cycling?
Bates: He comes and goes.
Drailsford: Well he sounds delightful. You two have fun now.

Bates Exits.

Drailsford (to audience): Well, that is marvellous. Two down in two days. Now all I need is a head coach and one more domestique.

petethedrummer

Scene 4:

Carol (Via Intercom): A Mr. Robby Tulip to see you Mr. Drailsford.
Drailsford: I see that Carol.
Carol: Oh?
Drailsford: I've had the partioning wall replaced Carol, with a giant glass window. It lets me see whose in the foyer. It's my finest marginal gain. No need for the intercom now Carol. Complete transparency. If anyone is here to see me, you just knock on the window and point. Got it?
Carol: Yes, Mr Drailsford.
Drailsford: Knock and Point.

Knock Knock

Drailsford: Welcome Mr Tulip we're looking for a new head coach. Someone who can get the best out of the riders without resorting to the old jab jab.
Tulip: I'm your man, so.
Drailsford: Just looking at your CV here, you have prior cycling experience.
Tulip: I do.
Drailsford: Interesting, you came third in the tour in the late 90's I see.
Tulip: I did.
Drailsford: What a feat! You must really know how to get the best out of a body.
Tulip: I think I do.
Drailsford: Wait a minute. The speeds you men climbed at. Genuine?
Tulip: Of course.
Drailsford: Tell me the truth, I am a grown man. I can take it.
Tulip: Absolutely.
Drailsford: Look me in the eye Tulip and tell me.
Tulip: One Hundred Percent.
Drailsford: Excellent, you're hired.....My new head of coaching.

Tulip Exits

Drailsford (to audience): Well, we're almost there. One place to fill but I need to keep vigilant. I can't let one slip through the net.

RobFowl

petethedrummer wrote: »

Scene 4:
Tulip: One Hundred Percent.
Drailsford: Excellent, you're hired.....My new head of coaching.

Tulip Exits

Drailsford (to audience): Well, we're almost there. One place to fill but I need to keep vigilant. I can't let one slip through the net.

Nit picking but isn't Hammy the Hamster (on his lip) head coach??

Waitsian

petethedrummer wrote: »

I've written a short play

Never mind the 'short' pete, do a 3 or 4 Act play on the whole scandal - this is pretty good!

letape

mod9maple wrote: »

Never mind the 'short' pete, do a 3 or 4 Act play on the whole scandal - this is pretty good!

Cant wait for the next scene!

petethedrummer

Scene 5:

Thud

Drailsford: Carol! what in blazes are you doing on the floor?
Carol: I leaned over to knock on the giant glass window Mr Drailsford, and...
Drailsford: Ah yes Carol, you noticed. I've had the giant glass window removed. We're totally open now. Another M..
Carol: ....MARGINAL GAIN! Yes Mr Drailsford. There's a Mr. Barry Michaels here to see you.
Drailsford: I am quite aware who he is Carol. With the giant glass window removed, I heard him give you his name. Now pick yourself up and bring tea for our potential rider. We can't have the man dehydrated. And prepare it like I showed you.
Carol: Yes Mr. Drailsford.

Drailsford: Welcome Mr Michaels we're looking for a rider for our team. An honest work horse who can get the job done with the emphasis on honest.
Michaels: I'm your man, so.
Drailsford: Just looking at your CV here, you have prior cycling experience.
Michaels: I do.
Drailsford: Interesting, I see you rode with the Parcel Delivery team.
Michaels: I did.
Drailsford: I am impressed. You climbed those hills like you were on.....
Michaels: Yes??
Drailsford: .......steroids! Tell me about the steroids.
Michaels: I don't know anything about steroids.
Drailsford: Come come Mr Michaels. I have extracted the truth from some of the finest minds in the business. You don't fool me.
Michaels: You have read my book Mr Drailsford?
Drailsford: I tried Mr. Michaels, very boring.
Michaels: Well, in my book there is no mention of doping from start to finish. Ergo I am clean.
Drailsford: Touché Mr. Michaels. You make a strong case but I shall have Carol read it tonight.

Carol Enters

Drailsford: Thank you Carol.
Carol: You're welcome Mr. Drailsford.
Drailsford: Carol!!! What is this?
Carol: It's your portable thermometer Mr. Drailsford.
Drailsford: No, what does it say on the portable thermometer?
Carol: 45 degrees.
Drailsford: Are you trying to kill the man? Tea is to be served at 37 degrees. Body Temperature. This young man could have been burned alive. It's a good job I hired Dr. Reindeers for situations like these.
Carol: You're always one step ahead Mr. Drailsford.
Drailsford: That I am Carol. That I am.

Michaels: So do I get the job?
Drailsford: Yes, you are hired....but before you go I want you to look Carol in the eye and swear to me you never doped.

Michaels & Carol Exit

Drailsford (to audience): And that, as they say, is that. It has been a tough road to get to this point. But with the team fully vetted nothing can stand in the way of clean victory. I shall have Carol release a press statement in the morning.

petethedrummer

RobFowl wrote: »

Nit picking but isn't Hammy the Hamster (on his lip) head coach??

I have no time for factual accuracy.

Flandria

Brilliant stuff, you need a wider audience Pete...

corny

Flandria wrote: »

Brilliant stuff, you need a wider audience Pete...

The West End, Broadway, Sky's;) the limit.

petethedrummer

Scene 6:

Drailsford (Via Intercom): CAROL!! Get me Reindeers.
Carol: I'm right here Mr. Drailsford, there's no need to use the intercom. Not since you had the partitioning wall and the giant glass window removed.
Drailsford: Yes, yes Carol. This newspaper report must have shocked me into the middle of last week. Get me Reindeers.
Carol: But it's only October.
Drailsford: Get me DOCTOR Reindeers.
Carol: What is it Mr. Drailsford?
Drailsford: It's Dr. Reindeers.
Carol: Dr. Reindeers?
Drailsford: They say he has a past.
Carol: A past?
Drailsford: A past Carol.
Carol: My Lord!
Drailsford: Yes Carol, but how in hades did he get through our screening system?
Carol: He must be very clever.
Drailsford: Truly cunning.
Carol: The sort of quick thinking man anyone would want on their team.
Drailsford: Yes Carol and we've got him. One of my finest appointments.
Carol: Always one step ahead Mr Drailsford.
Drailsford: But how do we sell it to the press?
Carol: Didn't you say you might hire one man with a past.
Drailsford: Why would I say that Carol?
Carol: So you know how the enemy thinks!
Drailsford: Well it does sound like something I might say.
Carol: I'm quite sure it's in one of your early press statements.
Drailsford: It is?
Carol: Yes Mr. Drailsford. You've been so busy with your marginal gains you must have forgotten.
Drailsford: Well dig out the press statement then Carol.
Carol: But there are so many Mr. Drailsford, I couldn't possible find it.
Drailsford: Yes and neither will those vultures in the press. Carol a new statement...
Carol: Yes Mr Drailsford.
Drailsford: Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of the associated press. Thank you for your concern for the cleanliness of our establishment. But as ever we are one step ahead. We are quite aware of the past of Dr. Reindeers............

End Scene

Junior

UK Daily Telegraph reporting that Yates has fallen on his sword.

Flandria

Yep, Yates thrown under the Sky bus as well

* De Jongh gone as well - that's three now from the management team and there's another couple that don't look too safe.

Lusk Doyle

Junior wrote: »

UK Daily Telegraph reporting that Yates has fallen on his sword.

Oh, but this has nothing to do with his past...pull the other one sky!

Lumen

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Oh, but this has nothing to do with his past...pull the other one sky!

Where have they claimed that this isn't because of his past?

Lusk Doyle

Lumen wrote: »

Where have they claimed that this isn't because of his past?

Here:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/yates-quits-team-sky

niceonetom

Drailsford has been told he's a genius so many times that's he's clearly come to believe the rest of us are eejits.

Lumen

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

Here:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/yates-quits-team-sky

niceonetom wrote: »

Drailsford has been told he's a genius so many times that's he's clearly come to believe the rest of us are eejits.

This outcome seems to be the worst for Yates, since he's effectively turned down a golden parachute.

If Yates admitted it then he'd have the money (which he didn't and doesn't, apparently).

If Yates denied it and Brailsford believed him, he'd still be with the team (which he isn't).

If Yates denied it and Brailsford didn't believe him, Brailsford would have surely pushed him towards the golden parachute, unless Brailsford was so enraged that he threatened Yates with the sack if he didn't quit for free ("good Brailsford" scenario).

The remaining "evil Brailsford" scenario is that Yates and Brailsford both believed that Yates was involved and have conspired to hush it up, but I don't see what's in it for Yates in this scenario.

Flandria

Lumen wrote: »

This outcome seems to be the worst for Yates, since he's effectively turned down a golden parachute.

If Yates admitted it then he'd have the money (which he didn't and doesn't, apparently).

If Yates denied it and Brailsford believed him, he'd still be with the team (which he isn't).

If Yates denied it and Brailsford didn't believe him, Brailsford would have surely pushed him towards the golden parachute, unless Brailsford was so enraged that he threatened Yates with the sack if he didn't quit for free ("good Brailsford" scenario).

The remaining "evil Brailsford" scenario is that Yates and Brailsford both believed that Yates was involved and have conspired to hush it up, but I don't see what's in it for Yates in this scenario.

Apart from maybe un-retiring in a few months for a job with say, Katusha or another team?

niceonetom

Flandria wrote: »

Apart from maybe un-retiring in a few months for a job with say, Katusha or another team?

Or, along with his (at least officially) untarnished reputation, a parachute that we haven't been told about - a thank you perhaps for saving Drailsford from the ignominy of having to own up that he was either incompetent or conniving enough to hire a DS with _a past_.

That we're supposed to accept this as unconnected to DeJong or Barry's exit is, frankly, insulting.

Lumen

niceonetom wrote: »

Or, along with his (at least officially) untarnished reputation, a parachute that we haven't been told about - a thank you perhaps for saving Drailsford from the ignominy of having to own up that he was either incompetent or conniving enough to hire a DS with _a past_.

Someone should ask him, if they haven't already.

Flandria

I reckon Pete got the gig at a Twisted Spoke...

http://www.atwistedspoke.com/yates-exits-sky-was-he-pushed/

furiousox

Flandria wrote: »

I reckon Pete got the gig at a Twisted Spoke...

http://www.atwistedspoke.com/yates-exits-sky-was-he-pushed/

Sounds more plausible than what we're being asked to believe.

petethedrummer

Flandria wrote: »

I reckon Pete got the gig at a Twisted Spoke...

http://www.atwistedspoke.com/yates-exits-sky-was-he-pushed/

The rotters. I have 3 more scenes for my epic tale but writing the first 6 gave me such a pain in the face I don't know if I have the will power to finish them.

Lusk Doyle

petethedrummer wrote: »

The rotters. I have 3 more scenes for my epic tale but writing the first 6 gave me such a pain in the face I don't know if I have the will power to finish them.

Yates / Bates or whatever name you gave him may have something in the car or on the motorbike that can help you recover!

Lusk Doyle

I see dowsett with the big mouth is out!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/alex-dowsett-joins-movistar

Junior

Lusk Doyle wrote: »

I see dowsett with the big mouth is out!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/alex-dowsett-joins-movistar

I know we love a bit of idle speculation, but as far as I gather the move was inked a few months ago, but again Sky's PR Team have managed an exit fairly poorly..

boege

Junior wrote: »

I know we love a bit of idle speculation, but as far as I gather the move was inked a few months ago, but again Sky's PR Team have managed an exit fairly poorly..

Think you are being too generous. They have walked themselves into a corner - how does one now leave Sky at present with reputation intact?

Lumen

boege wrote: »

Think you are being too generous. They have walked themselves into a corner - how does one now leave Sky at present with reputation intact?

Sign the pledge, wait, quit.

Flandria

boege wrote: »

Think you are being too generous. They have walked themselves into a corner - how does one now leave Sky at present with reputation intact?

Ring them, cancel your subscription, and buy a satellite dish;)

furiousox

Lumen wrote: »

Sign the pledge, wait, quit.

...then deny any wrongdoing and claim the timing is coincidental.

bcmf

Listening to 'Off the Ball' last night and they had Jeremy Whittle on. After the interview I really felt that Team Sky were in a big dilema with Brailsford's reputation in trouble. Whittle was asking big questions of why the doctor (cant think of his name at the min) was associated with Team Sky given the doctors 'involvement' with Rabobank and Brailsford statement at the beginning and during the development and success of Team Sky that everyone would be clean. Whittle didnt suggest anything 'untoward' was going on.