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Help with interpretation of Road traffic Law.

  • 25-10-2012 3:15pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,069 ✭✭✭✭


    Hello all.
    Mods are asked not to move this thread to Motors forum, as I came here intentionally to find out about interpretation of Law on subject we were dicussing on Motors forum recently.

    Here's the situation
    225635.jpg
    Car A want's to overtake car B. Can he do so, provided there is car C oncoming, but not on lane on which overtaking will take place.

    ROAD TRAFFIC (TRAFFIC AND PARKING) REGULATIONS, 1997 state the following:
    (2) A driver shall not overtake, or attempt to overtake, unless the roadway ahead of the driver—


    ( a ) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and


    ( b ) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.

    Definition of roadway can be found here :
    “roadway” means that portion of a road which is provided primarily for the use of vehicles;

    While road is defined as:
    “road” includes—

    (a) any street, lane, footpath, square, court, alley or passage,

    (b) any bridge, viaduct, underpass, subway, tunnel, overpass, overbridge, flyover, carriageway (whether single or multiple), pavement or footway,

    (c) any weighbridge or other facility for the weighing or inspection of vehicles, toll plaza or other facility for the collection of tolls, service area, emergency telephone, first aid post, culvert, arch, gulley, railing, fence, wall, barrier, guardrail, margin, kerb, lay-by, hard shoulder, island, pedestrian refuge, median, central reserve, channelliser, roundabout, gantry, pole, ramp, bollard, pipe, wire, cable, sign, signal or lighting forming part of the road, and

    (d) any other structure or thing forming part of the road and—

    (i) necessary for the safety, convenience or amenity of road users or for the construction, maintenance, operation or management of the road or for the protection of the environment, or

    (ii) prescribed by the Minister;

    My understanding is that by roadway includes all lanes in this situation, and therefore as there is car C approaching on the same roadway, then overtaking in this situation is prohibited by law.

    But other posters on motor forum, try to say, that roadway can be understood as "single lane" in this particular case.

    Who is right?

    My additional argument is that term "roadway" is used widely in those regulations, and it would make logical sense to understand that roadway is the whole portion of road provided for vehicles, and not only one lane:

    Example:
    Turning at Junctions

    11. A driver of a vehicle approaching a road junction shall—


    ( a ) drive on the left hand side of the roadway if intending to turn left at the junction;


    ( b ) subject to paragraph (c), drive close to the centre of the roadway if intending to turn right at the junction; or


    ( c ) drive on the right hand side of the roadway when on a one-way roadway which is wide enough for more than one lane of traffic, if intending to turn right at the junction.

    Above seems to confirm my understanding of roadway is correct, as I can't imagine that term "roadway" could have different meanings for different articles of the same law act...

    I would love to hear some comments on this from people who know more about law than me or other frequent posters from motors forum.

    Cheers.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,579 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    CiniO wrote: »
    My understanding is that by roadway includes all lanes in this situation, and therefore as there is car C approaching on the same roadway, then overtaking in this situation is prohibited by law.
    Correct. If it was to be otherwise, it would have been written otherwise.

    That said. When it was written, I don't think three lane roads were being considered. :)
    But other posters on motor forum, try to say, that roadway can be understood as "single lane" in this particular case.
    No, it says "roadway ahead of the driver", not
    "traffic lane to the right and ahead of the driver" or "particular piece roadway ahead of the driver". Further, they are forgetting "( b ) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians." - an opposing vehicle could enter the centre lane at any time, as is their right.

    However, I think a certain amount of common sense can be applied, insofar as if there is negligible risk of collision, passing wouldn't be unreasonable, e.g if A and C were motorbikes and C was in the left hand side of the left lane, slowing down and turning left.

    If A, B & C were trucks, with little acceleration ability and with no visibility beyond the opposing truck C, then it would be an immensely imprudent action.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 534 ✭✭✭James Jones


    CiniO wrote: »
    225635.jpg
    I live close to a layout like this and believe it to be quite dangerous. The broken line for the lane in which A and B are travelling gives the impression that A can overtake B as long as the center lane is clear

    BUT

    who has the right of way if D (not in picture but behind C) decides to pass C simultaneous to A passing B? I have found myself in both positions and was able to retreat successfully but would have been unable to had E (travelling behind me) taken up the space I vacated (iykwim).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    I've only ever seen this layout where a bus lane or climbing lane are used. People tend to get stuck on these hard and fast "rules" for who would be in the right. At the end of the day it all depends on the individual circumstances for each crash and the actions of the drivers on the day.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    What reason could a possibly give If he or she collided with C on C's side of the road?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Zambia wrote: »
    What reason could a possibly give If he or she collided with C on C's side of the road?

    C would be in the wrong lane for one thing


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    MagicSean wrote: »

    C would be in the wrong lane for one thing
    Yes but it hardly puts them at fault in the case of a head on collision. C can use that lane for a variety of reasons.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    MagicSean wrote: »
    I've only ever seen this layout where a bus lane or climbing lane are used. People tend to get stuck on these hard and fast "rules" for who would be in the right. At the end of the day it all depends on the individual circumstances for each crash and the actions of the drivers on the day.

    100% this.

    Also dangerous driving would negate technically correct pane choice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Zambia wrote: »
    Yes but it hardly puts them at fault in the case of a head on collision. C can use that lane for a variety of reasons.

    Which is why I said it depends on the circumstances of each individual crash.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    True

    So if C changed into his right lane for no reason. Maybe in anticipation of a right turn a few kms up the road.

    At the same time A moved over the broken line and on the the same lane as C is now in. Some degree of head on collision occurs who is in the wrong?

    Our legislation is worded differently so we may have to agree to disagree here. even under the OP's quoted legislation the words any obstruction, is key.

    Vehicle C could be blocking a vehicle D or indeed may change lanes. The fact B would chance it is clearly unsafe IMO. I wouldn't chance it anyway.


    Victorian Legislation


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