If you can't get Saorview or Saorsat........

Mr Cumulonimbus

Just caught the end of an article on the RTE Six One news that areas of Bonane in Co. Kerry cannot get either Saorview or Saorsat and that they have no reception of any Irish channels today when the local analogue relay was turned off.

People were told that a solution would be provided "within a week". What will happen here? Will the relay that was turned off be upgraded to broadcast Saorview or redistribute Saorsat?

Eric Cartman

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

Just caught the end of an article on the RTE Six One news that areas of Bonane in Co. Kerry cannot get either Saorview or Saorsat and that they have no reception of any Irish channels today when the local analogue relay was turned off.

People were told that a solution would be provided "within a week". What will happen here? Will the relay that was turned off be upgraded to broadcast Saorview or redistribute Saorsat?

sounds like paradise

Trick of the Tail

Why can't they get Saorsat?

A.

Mr Cumulonimbus

Local terrain I'd guess. If they are too near a hill to the south, satellite signals could be blocked. Parts of Leenane in Co Galway may be in a similar situation.

Trick of the Tail

Sounds unlikely. The elevation of the satellite isn't enough for a hill to the south to stop it.

It would have to be a bloody big hill, very close.

A

dxhound2005

Here is a story about it from the Irish Times.

http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1024/1224325626601.html?via=ireland

I can't make much sense of it myself.

Mr Cumulonimbus

alinton wrote: »

Sounds unlikely. The elevation of the satellite isn't enough for a hill to the south to stop it.

It would have to be a bloody big hill, very close.

A

Could be. From that Irish Times article:

in her cosy house tucked under the hill.

swoofer

what a weird report, large SAORSAT masts!! no such thing, dishes that cost 300 no good for SAORSAT, and "Dolly has bought a new television and dish, but any bit of fog and wind and the signal freezes, . And thats from the Irish Times. god help dolly

Mr Cumulonimbus

RTE report on this now online. Called "Digital switchover creates problems in southwest Kerry".

The person in the video actually states she is too close to the mountain for a satellite signal. She was quoted €2000 to place a satellite dish away from the house and then run cable back to the house.

Andy454

I just saw this article, ah the poor dear, what the hell was the point in turing off the analogue deflector here, its not as if its going to escape and interfere with any other services!

I'll do it - for the cost of the coax ! - about 30 euro, I'll even throw in a 1m solid dish for them

Shame on them, she's paid her licence, she's entitled to her service, from the looks of it she doesn't have much else.

TV is a lifeline for people living on their own.

STB

I have read the article and I saw the piece on the same woman on the 6 One news and what was apparent was the ludicrous prices being quoted by local installers.

I heard €1000 and €500 within the space of one minute. For a Sat dish with a Ka LNB! Hello!! Must have been a feckin Andrews 1.8m dish they were installing.

Andy454

I've a 3m Andrew's dish in the back yard, didn't cost me that!!

marno21

Andy454 wrote: »

I just saw this article, ah the poor dear, what the hell was the point in turing off the analogue deflector here, its not as if its going to escape and interfere with any other services!

I'll do it - for the cost of the coax ! - about 30 euro, I'll even throw in a 1m solid dish for them

Shame on them, she's paid her licence, she's entitled to her service, from the looks of it she doesn't have much else.

TV is a lifeline for people living on their own.

This is exactly the kind of attitude that is badly needed in relation to this now major issue.

While shutting down relays in areas that have small bits of poor coverage/coverage can be gained through a high gain aerial is ok, shutting down relays blocked by wind turbines/mountains/can't get Saorsat is not.

It's an awful pity the Kerry people didn't make some noise like the people in Timoleague, Leap, Rosscarbery etc back early this year and get their relays

It's a pity there's so many people with the "we have 98% coverage" all the time, most (all) of those people have perfect Saorview so this is something that doesn't worry them. I'd imagine their attitude would change very quickly if they found themselves in a position where they can't get Saorview (or even Saorsat).

Maggie 2

It's not just Kerry that are having problems. Parts of the midlands have intermittent reception. Not good enough, after all the advertising that was done. People who had their saorview boxes installed six months ago have been having problems ever since, with no improvement today.

they did plan to retrofit or replace more transmitters and relays during the switchover but they decided to cut the number for cost and use saorsat as a cheaper filler so if they are gonna make saorsat successful in its mission then they had better provide some support beyond a phone line. a subsidy for an install or maybe reconsidering some relays for DTT retrofit/replacement.

how many cases do ye think will be similar to this may i ask out of curiousity in terms of no saorsat and saorview service?

STB

STB wrote: »

I have read the article and I saw the piece on the same woman on the 6 One news and what was apparent was the ludicrous prices being quoted by local installers.

I heard €1000 and €500 within the space of one minute. For a Sat dish with a Ka LNB! Hello!! Must have been a feckin Andrews 1.8m dish they were installing.

It was to do with the position of the dish - according to the interview it could have to be placed a fair distance down from the house and bring cable up to the property itself. The size of the dish was never mentioned.

FREETV

TV3 should be forced by the BAI to be on Saorsat, it should be an exact copy of Saorview and the signal increased so that it works throughout the whole of Ireland on an 80cm or 90cm dish even in heavy rain. Windy weather will knock out reception or cause picture breakups even with a good setup and proper alignment so relays or more transmitters are far better and reliable in comparison. The people who have problems getting Saorview or in particular Saorsat should get free installs and equipment.

STB

warlikedave wrote: »

It was to do with the position of the dish - according to the interview it could have to be placed a fair distance down from the house and bring cable up to the property itself. The size of the dish was never mentioned.

And ?

You missed the point. The point was to justify a €1000 install. No amount of cable would cost that! Hence my question what the hell were they installing that cost €1000. An Andrews Raven dish ?

You with me ? Quite clear that whole truths are not being told.

watty

There isn't a problem with wind or rain on professionally installed dish. 80cm does suit most of Ireland. A small number of households do need 1.1m.

Low power DTT fed by satellite suits a small village or smalll area. One off housing needs a dish. Legacy of 90 years of lack of village and small town planing.

Sam Russell

This brings me to a point I have been making for the last eighteen months. Why is the shut down of analogue being treated as the launch of Saorview. We have Sean O'Rouke on the News At One refering to RTE NEWS NOW as a new channel. Now for someone down in Kerry to consider the channel as new I can understand, but for the presenter of News at One, within the same department as the news channel, not to know it has been on air for over two years is a bit hard to beleive. Makes you wonder.

RTE are continuously refering to the analogue switch off as the digital switch-over. Have they forgotten that Pat Rabbitte launched Saorview back in May 2010.

Andy454

STB wrote: »

And ?

You missed the point. The point was to justify a €1000 install. No amount of cable would cost that! Hence my question what the hell were they installing that cost €1000. An Andrews Raven dish ?

You with me ? Quite clear that whole truths are not being told.

Loud and clear, I bought 250m of dual sat coax yesterday for 12euro, an inline amp for 23 euro, an 80cm solid dish for 30 and a dual ka sat lnb for 25 (don't know why this lnb is so expensive considering a quad lnb is just 14euro)

so at 1000 euro she must need....

1000 -dish+lnb+install = 800euro



800/12 = 75

75 x 250 = 18750m, They must be installing her dish next to the montrose transmitter....

probably connecting her to the stations outbound encoder?

Antenna

STB wrote: »

And ?

You missed the point. The point was to justify a €1000 install. No amount of cable would cost that! Hence my question what the hell were they installing that cost €1000. An Andrews Raven dish ?

You with me ? Quite clear that whole truths are not being told.

We do not know the specifics.

The nearest location to the house with Saorsat reception might be a location with boggy ground.

A significant concrete foundation would have to be put down and let set before a dish could be installed on a pole, a lot of work with repeated visits.

The cable back to the house might have to be buried in conduit, if just installed along a ditch without protection around it, it mightn't be long before sheep chew into it, or otherwise gets damaged.

There could be other issues, such as the reception location being on land on the other side of a public road.

watty

Andy454 wrote: »

a dual ka sat lnb for 25 (don't know why this lnb is so expensive considering a quad lnb is just 14euro)

Like difference in cost of AM and FM 1955.
11GHz Huge market vs 20GHz tiny market. Also ka is circular polarised, so LNBF has a Circular to linear passive "converter"

The overall price quoted is too high for personal dish and too low for a Satellite to local DVB-T transponder.

Capt'n Midnight

Mr Cumulonimbus wrote: »

The person in the video actually states she is too close to the mountain for a satellite signal. She was quoted €2000 to place a satellite dish away from the house and then run cable back to the house.

Is that the village that RTENL didn't sort out because there were trees growing around the aerial ?

2K is just nuts for one person, for not much more you could stick a distribution amp in and run the cable to all the houses.

According to saorview site
500m north will get Mullaganish 21H
1Km south is Bantry 52H
1.5Km west Mount Gabriel 37V


http://m.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1024/1224325626601.html?via=ireland

“It’s a disgrace. People are going to be looking at blank screens tomorrow. Everyone thinks you can get Sky anywhere – but you can’t,” he said.

SKY


One wonders how much of this is wanting it to be handed to them on a plate
vs.
a real problem , and TBH if that's the worst that's happened with turning off analog then it's been remarkably smooth.


Are there any stories about people getting TV for the first time over the last 18 months ?




What's the name of that town in Norway that gets no sunshine for five months a year because it's in the shadow of a mountain ?

Capt'n Midnight

Antenna wrote: »

We do not know the specifics.

...

There could be other issues, such as the reception location being on land on the other side of a public road.

I picked up a video sender for €15 not so long ago, stick it at the focal point of a dish to increase the range.

There are ways and means. The big problem is getting electricity to the antenna.

If there are problems with right of way etc. I'd call that a local matter for them to sort amongst themselves.


How big a tower could you get for €2,000 ?
And what are the chances of picking up something from Mullaghanish with stacked antennas even if you didn't have line of sight ?

watty

Northern Norway needed 100s of DVB-T as the satellite Elevation is less than 10 degrees. So any fjord would have a problem.

I got 6km out of a cheap video sender with MMDS aerials as a test. I couldn't find LOS further off!

lawhec

In the UK, many self-help schemes closed down at DSO rather than be upgraded. The main reason for this is that for such schemes in urban areas the problems in analogue TV reception were due to developments blocking the main transmitter or relay signal (soccer grounds were common offenders for this) causing weak signals or multipath, while in more rural areas some places were deemed not viable for the cost of a four-channel UHF relay to be installed by the broadcasters e.g. a small village. In both cases such schemes that weren't upgraded meant that viewers relying on such systems either had to try and see if a DTT source was now possible (more likely in urban schemes especially when ghosting was the problem) or get a Freesat set up (more common in rural areas). There was no stay of execution on these schemes at relevant DSO's.

I sympathise with the loss of service some viewers in isolated parts of Kerry have had - but a set date being set down needed to happen to stop such an issue dragging on and never really getting resolved. It took long enough for a DTT network in the Republic to get up and going!

For what I see, there are two ways of resolving this without going back to analogue - one is to use the Saorsat feed at the transmission sites. It won't have TV3 but it's better than 'eff all. If the transmitters at these sites are quite young they can probably be upgraded for DVB-T without too much cost or hassle. The second is slightly more complex but would deliver the full Saorview service - since these sites cannot receive a direct signal from a Saorview network transmitter, look at the possibility of a link transmitter or active deflector being deployed, depending on the local topology, and also see if these old satellite-fed sites can relay signals to one another. As part of the upgrades to relays for DSO in the UK, Arqiva dealt with relays whose source of PSB multiplexes were on the same frequencies as that for analogue and whom would be relaying on the same frequencies previous used for analogue TV themselves by fitting out the transposers with dual analogue/DTT reception equipment, meaning that on switchover days only minimal checks would be needed to ensure they were working. With a good number of low-power analogue transposers no longer in use by RTÉNL, I'm sure a decent price could be haggled and get them upgraded to handle DTT transposition.

The Cush

We'd had reports of VHF DTT tests from the Donnybrook transmitter recently, would there be any benefit of using VHF over UHF DTT at some future infill sites in mountainous areas such as Kerry, Wicklow, Donegal etc.?

Stinicker

The Cush wrote: »

We'd had reports of VHF DTT tests from the Donnybrook transmitter recently, would there be any benefit of using VHF over UHF DTT at some future infill sites in mountainous areas such as Kerry, Wicklow, Donegal etc.?

Isn't VHF dead in the water as the spectrum is being sold for 4G? I think RTE should have considered doing a deal with Sky where they would produce a FTV card linked to the TV license and specifically for those who can't get Saorview and verified etc. Surely this would not breach the licensing which has always kept RTE encrypted on Sky's Astra satellite.

Basically if you can't get Saorview then no one should pay a TV licence, Saorsat should not be accepted by anyone as it is not a solution until such time as it is an active mirror service of Saorview carrying TV3 and 3e and it is legislated for as Saorview via Satellite.

A TV licence boycott in Kilgarvan Co. Kerry back in 2006 forced RTE and SWS Wind Energy to erect a new analogue transmitter at Morley's Bridge to address the issue as the Analogue from Mullaghanish was wiped out by the turbines. The same Morley's Bridge transmitter has now been closed and I am sure given it is Healy Rae country they will rebel again.

The Cush

Stinicker wrote: »

Isn't VHF dead in the water as the spectrum is being sold for 4G?

No.

UHF 790-862 MHz (Chs. 61-69) spectrum is being sold off, aka The Digital Dividend. VHF spectrum isn't part of the digital dividend.

Band III VHF spectrum in this country is allocated to DAB radio and DTT.

Sam Russell

VHF would be a very good solution as it travels much better than UHF. It is a good solution for the west and south west as there is nowhere to interfere with. Sporadic E might be a problem, but no-one will be on VHF TV to suffer.

Stinicker

Surely they should have used VHF in that case then, they already used the outdated DVB-T when they had plenty time to change the standard to DVB-T2.

lawhec

Stinicker wrote: »

Basically if you can't get Saorview then no one should pay a TV licence, Saorsat should not be accepted by anyone as it is not a solution until such time as it is an active mirror service of Saorview carrying TV3 and 3e and it is legislated for as Saorview via Satellite.

A TV Licence is not a guarantor of being able to receive a specific FTA service on a specific platform. There are parts of Northern Ireland where even with the high-powered Freeview network now in place still cannot receive the service and have to rely of satellite which while mostly covers SD channels of the four main services does not offer on a free basis some popular channels that are available on Freeview. That doesn't entitle them to not having to pay the UK TV licence. Neither Freesat or Saorsat were mandated by either the UK or Irish governments respectively as part of the plan for switching off analogue terrestrial broadcasts - they were created and promoted by broadcasters involved.

lawhec

Sam Russell wrote: »

VHF would be a very good solution as it travels much better than UHF. It is a good solution for the west and south west as there is nowhere to interfere with. Sporadic E might be a problem, but no-one will be on VHF TV to suffer.

VHF Band III very rarely suffers from Sporadic-E and on the occasion it does happen, tends to be limited for brief moments to channel E5/E6.

The Cush

Stinicker wrote: »

Surely they should have used VHF in that case then, they already used the outdated DVB-T when they had plenty time to change the standard to DVB-T2.

DVB-T2 came too late - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81286681

Only 1 VHF frequency/layer was allocated to Ireland at GE06 at each main transmittter and 8 UHF layers nationwide. RTÉ at an Saorview pre-launch trade event said they hadn't ruled out DTT on VHF at some time in the future.

DVB-T VHF Channels (7 MHz) allocated to Ireland at RRC-06
5 (174 - 181) - IRL DTT NTH WEST, IRL DTT STH EAST
6 (181 - 188) - IRL DTT WEST
7 (188 - 195) - IRL DTT MIDLANDS
8 (195 - 202) - IRL DTT EAST
9 (202 - 209) - IRL DTT NTH EAST, IRL DTT STH WEST

The Cush

lawhec wrote: »

VHF Band III very rarely suffers from Sporadic-E and on the occasion it does happen, tends to be limited for brief moments to channel E5/E6.

Lawhec, your thoughts on this -
We'd had reports of VHF DTT tests from the Donnybrook transmitter recently, would there be any benefit of using VHF over UHF DTT at some future infill sites in mountainous areas such as Kerry, Wicklow, Donegal etc.?

STB

Antenna wrote: »

We do not know the specifics.

We do. We know how far the satellite travelled and the pattern for Eutelsat's 9E spot beam. You do not need a degree in telecommunications to work that out. Neither do you need a degree in Maths to work out the costs of installing a dish and lnb to fullfill the receiving requirements unless I am missing something.

Stinicker

lawhec wrote: »

A TV Licence is not a guarantor of being able to receive a specific FTA service on a specific platform. There are parts of Northern Ireland where even with the high-powered Freeview network now in place still cannot receive the service and have to rely of satellite which while mostly covers SD channels of the four main services does not offer on a free basis some popular channels that are available on Freeview. That doesn't entitle them to not having to pay the UK TV licence. Neither Freesat or Saorsat were mandated by either the UK or Irish governments respectively as part of the plan for switching off analogue terrestrial broadcasts - they were created and promoted by broadcasters involved.

The difference is Freesat is a totally viable alternative to Freeview within the UK, is easily available duplicates Freeview (for the most part) and uses existing infrastructure (Astra 28.2 Sky dishes).

With Freesat you were guaranteed not to lose any of your bog standard five Analogue channels within the UK and it was an easy switchover using a small satellite dish which many houses would have already ex-Sky Sub or FTA etc.

In Ireland we had 4 Analogue channels at time of switchoff, those dependent on Saorsat can only get 3 of those 4 if they choose Saorsat which is a downgrade and loss of service. You are missing one quarter of the saorview service if you use Saorsat. The fact is Freesat is viable alternative in the UK, Saorsat by comparison in Ireland is downgrade and I wonder will RTÉ offer the thousands of people dependent on Saorsat their TV licence at a 25% discount for €120 considering they have lost a quarter of the service with the switchover to the supposed superior Saorview service.

lawhec

The Cush wrote: »

Lawhec, your thoughts on this -
We'd had reports of VHF DTT tests from the Donnybrook transmitter recently, would there be any benefit of using VHF over UHF DTT at some future infill sites in mountainous areas such as Kerry, Wicklow, Donegal etc.?

My only experience in dealing with VHF DVB-T has been in Australia where with a certain sense of irony it is more common in the big cities (in that ABC, and the Seven, Nine and Ten networks have Band III allocations) whereas in regional and rural areas often only the incumbent historical commercial broadcaster prior to "aggregation" with the rest of UHF. I found that for indoor reception Band III reception was rather tricky despite good output powers of 50kW, while UHF reception was easier.

I mentioned a few days ago about the pros and cons of DTT over VHF and UHF in comparison, but I was assuming that tests were being carried out on Kippure which I though would be a good testing ground in trying to service areas where analogue RTÉ1 and RTÉ2 were fine, but Saorview didn't reach. Donnybrook can hardly be considered a good comparison for testing VHF DTT over tricky terrain. Maybe they're doing some simple testing at D4 before moving to a mountain site.

There's also a need to look at the evidence elsewhere over where digital TV is being delivered over the VHF Bands. In the USA many broadcasters whom after the major switch off in 2009 moved their ATSC broadcasts to VHF Band III allocations have now been trying to secure UHF allocations instead due to reliability issues regarding reception in Band III and also that many over-the-air viewers bought UHF aerials only for the switch to digital leaving VHF broadcaster left out. Those few broadcasters whom decided to have their ATSC broadcasts on Band I have been hammered even more with technical problems - WPVI in Philadelphia in particular as one of the few urban Band I ATSC broadcasters. As far as I'm aware in Canada in areas where analogue terrestrial TV has been switched off, there are no ATSC transmissions on Band I with many who broadcast in analogue in Band I getting UHF ATSC allocations. In Europe the only country with a significant Band III DVB-T presence from the get-go has been Italy, especially as Europa 7 has an national SFN allocation. Sweden and Finland have transmissions in Band III but that came about because there was little room left in the UHF Band for HD broadcasts and only VHF could guarantee national coverage. Indeed in Finland one pay-tv provider which is also a mobile phone service provider is using a VHF Band III SFN with low-power transmitter for their service radiated from their mobile phone masts! In Berlin they had two multiplexes on Band III at their switch over, but I believe these are now discontinued and gained new UHF allocations. I don't think there is any other country in Europe other than those mentioned using DVB-T(2) in Band III though some do have, like Ireland, 7MHz allocations. The only Band I activity I heard was some tests by a small commercial broadcaster in Italy (and there are plenty of those) but nothing came of it for a permanent transmission, especially as the DVB-T standards aren't set for Band I transmission - Band III and UHF only.

lawhec

Stinicker wrote: »

The difference is Freesat is a totally viable alternative to Freeview within the UK, is easily available duplicates Freeview (for the most part) and uses existing infrastructure (Astra 28.2 Sky dishes).

With Freesat you were guaranteed not to lose any of your bog standard five Analogue channels within the UK and it was an easy switchover using a small satellite dish which many houses would have already ex-Sky Sub or FTA etc.

At launch Freesat was missing Channel 5 and was only added a while later by space donated by the BBC which even then had blackout restrictions! And while a good number of Freesat viewers would probably have had an existing Sky dish pointed to 28 East, many others had fresh installs set up, especially as ex-Sky subscribers could have just used their existing equipment unless they wanted to get Freesat+

Stinicker wrote: »

In Ireland we had 4 Analogue channels at time of switchoff, those dependent on Saorsat can only get 3 of those 4 if they choose Saorsat which is a downgrade and loss of service. You are missing one quarter of the saorview service if you use Saorsat.

Where I live Channel 5 was never available via analogue terrestrial. The only way to watch it was either initially via analogue satellite via 19 East, and later via DTT or Sky either through subscription or the Solas card scheme - they were a late player in the FTA satellite set up. In the Republic TV3 had an analogue population coverage percentage not too different to that of Channel 5 in the UK - around 85%. A significant minority of viewers could only get TV3 either buy subscribing to Sky, cable, MMDS or being retransmitted via some deflector schemes (Castlebar and Westport spring to mind). Most of those viewers who lost out on TV3 on the analogue terrestrial network can now receive the station perfectly on Saorview.

Stinicker wrote: »

The fact is Freesat is viable alternative in the UK, Saorsat by comparison in Ireland is downgrade and I wonder will RTÉ offer the thousands of people dependent on Saorsat their TV licence at a 25% discount for €120 considering they have lost a quarter of the service with the switchover to the supposed superior Saorview service.

Did people in the analogue days demand a 25% discount on the TV licence because they couldn't get TV3 via their local relay? Did I or any others who could not get Channel 5 through the UK analogue terrestrial network should have been entitled to a 20% deduction of the UK licence fee? Should anyone whom is only served by a 'Freeview Lite' relay in the UK attempt to claim an over 50% discount? It's rubbish! TV3 are a commercial broadcaster with some elements of their output mandated as a term of their licence - like Channel 5 in the UK. TV3 themselves never paid or sanctioned their retransmission on the sites in question and so have no obligation to them, and while Saorsat may not have TV3, you do gain additional RTÉ services that were not available on the analogue terrestrial TV network, plus additional features like anamorphic widescreen on SD services and RTÉ Two in HD if your TV can display high definition pictures. If you are looking to blame someone for the lack of TV3 on Saorsat, blame TV3, not RTÉ. RTÉNL have set up at their own expense the Saorsat platform above and beyond their responsibilities for the turning off of the analogue TV network. TV3 feel it is not worth broadcasting on a platform they have no obligation to be on. That is in itself a regulatory matter that concerns the BAI. Besides, other than apply through the Sound & Vision fund which other commercial broadcasters which aren't on Saorview can also do, TV3 don't receive any licence fee money.

Also one thing I've noticed from these reports and also from cases in Cork that were reported a couple of months back is that the general cost of receiving services from Saorsat is almost likely **** blown out of proportion. I know of a few men whom because of terrain cannot get a cross-border Saorview signal and want to avoid the programme blocking of Sky, Virgin and the NI mini mux, took it in to their own hands to get a Saorsat set up. 80-90cm dish with fittings inc. free Ku Band LNB (about £30-35), Ka Band LNB required for Saorsat (£25-30), a length of WF100 cable (£5-12) and a free-to-air DVB-S2 satellite receiver (£55-60) and HDMI cable (£5), maybe a cheap satellite finder (£6) for a self-install. Even in the worst case scenario in terms of cost it is still under £150 while the cost of additional receivers to serve additional TV's only needs to involve another receiver, length of cable and a splitter if necessary if the two outputs on the Ka Band LNB aren't enough (in fact you might get away with using the LNB RF out on a satellite tuner if the receiver is only used for Saorsat, a form of daisy-chaining). Installation of the dish of course may cost extra, but if you have some DIY skills and prepare yourself with a bit of knowledge beforehand on how to install the dish, it can be done and there's little need to go any higher than a couple of steps on a step ladder except in tricky circumstances. As long as you're patient if its your first time doing a satellite install and try for a strong satellite first to test-aim e.g. Astra 2, Hotbird - then aim for 9 East with the Ku Band LNB, get it locked on with the best signal quality possible and then swap the LNB, it should be OK. In saying that, they'll have been a few people as well whom while are in the Saorview service area had previously relied on an analogue relay that wasn't upgraded who would have needed their UHF aerial realigned or possibly replaced too.

STB

STB wrote: »

And ?

You missed the point. The point was to justify a €1000 install. No amount of cable would cost that! Hence my question what the hell were they installing that cost €1000. An Andrews Raven dish ?

You with me ? Quite clear that whole truths are not being told.

Some one needs a :P

I wasnt trying to justify it - actually quite the opposite...such a setup as I stated is nothing special so really why should it cost 1000 euros plus someone asked about the setup datails given in the tv report and i was just basically regurgitating what was spoken on the report


anyways i was just making an obvious point more obvious...maybe not as well as i should :P

watty

Stinicker wrote: »

Surely they should have used VHF in that case then, they already used the outdated DVB-T when they had plenty time to change the standard to DVB-T2.

The VHF is only 7MHz rather than UHF 8MHz so needs higher QAM for same data rate. So the range might not be that much more. It would not have made much difference.

DVB-T2 was 18 months to two years late. The rollout started end of 2007!

We don't actually need DVB-T2 either as
1) we have less channels
2) we have no SD HD simulcast.

But all Saorview gear certified from Jan 2013 needs to have DVB-T2. Our own current transmitters are unlikely to change inside next 10 years. The MkII Saorview spec will be handy for those that can get a UK TV aerial signal. But for about 90% of people the Freesat is a better solution for UK Television.

see link

watty

watty wrote: »

The VHF is only 7MHz rather than UHF 8MHz so needs higher QAM for same data rate. So the range might not be that much more. It would not have made much difference.

DVB-T2 was 18 months to two years late. The rollout started end of 2007!

We don't actually need DVB-T2 either as
1) we have less channels
2) we have no SD HD simulcast.

But all Saorview gear certified from Jan 2013 needs to have DVB-T2. Our own current transmitters are unlikely to change inside next 10 years. The MkII Saorview spec will be handy for those that can get a UK TV aerial signal. But for about 90% of people the Freesat is a better solution for UK Television.

see link

cheers for the www.saortv.info link - is that your own site watty?

Just reading up on the saorsat section (very informative) however if im reading it right - you may need to update this since rte2 hd is now available to anyone in ROI with a compatible sky HD or sky+HD box with and without a HD sub:

Sky services initially will be unchanged. RTE have no plans to add extra Saorview content, RTE HD or the RTE Digital Radio to Sky. The existing provision of RTE, TG4 and TV on Sky is at Sky’s request and costs.

watty

Thanks Dave.

I 1/4 own the site.

Sponge Bob

I understand that there are known Satellite Shadow issues in Mayo Kerry Cork Galway and Donegal now and even in Wicklow. This simply means Saorsat cannot be used as there is a mountain in the way and Rte always knew that.

The best solution is a communal cable system in these blackspots to pick up Saorview+Freesat and I would grant aid such a scheme 80% from the digital dividend income.

Cantona's Collars

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I understand that there are known Satellite Shadow issues in Mayo Kerry Cork Galway and Donegal now and even in Wicklow. This simply means Saorsat cannot be used as there is a mountain in the way and Rte always knew that.

The best solution is a communal cable system in these blackspots to pick up Saorview+Freesat and I would grant aid such a scheme 80% from the digital dividend income.

I saw the piece on the news & the woman being interviewed has her house sitting literally in the mountain so zero chance of saorsat reception.This area of Kerry has had problems with any sort of communications & tv service since day one.RTE knew about this & for the last few years when they were getting ready for digital they decided to do nothing about it.Did they think that the people living in this are would suddenly receive saorview by magic?
These people cannot get a tv service of any kind now due to the location of their homes,no saorview,saorsat,sky,freesat,upc.RTE had plenty of time to come up with the solution but did the usual Irish thing & had the "ah sure it'll be alright" attitude.

watty

How many planning permissions given to houses there in last 30 years with no mains sewage, no chance of Broadband and possibly no mains water?

Antenna

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The best solution is a communal cable system in these blackspots to pick up Saorview+Freesat and I would grant aid such a scheme 80% from the digital dividend income.

These areas are usually not little villages with the houses close together- the houses are often far apart and would not be viable to run cables with the distances involved.

BTW the village of Leap in west Co. Cork had in the past a communal cable system just to provide RTE, but it deteriorated and was discontinued when RTE eventually put on air a relay for Leap in the late 1990s.
More recently this area was one of those in Co. Cork were a U-turn was done on the need for Saorsat, with the relay transmitting Saorview since a few weeks ago.

endakenny

Andy454 wrote: »

I just saw this article, ah the poor dear, what the hell was the point in turing off the analogue deflector here, its not as if its going to escape and interfere with any other services!

I'll do it - for the cost of the coax ! - about 30 euro, I'll even throw in a 1m solid dish for them

Shame on them, she's paid her licence, she's entitled to her service, from the looks of it she doesn't have much else.

TV is a lifeline for people living on their own.

Why did she chose to live in such an isolated area in the first place?

marno21

endakenny wrote: »

Why did she chose to live in such an isolated area in the first place?

So what you're saying is that nobody should live outside urban areas because it would cost too much to provide them with a working satellite service?

Brian from Saorview was on Radio Kerry during the week and sounded like he didn't know or care about those in satellite shadow.

What he said:

1. We can't provide them with a relay, we just can't.

The exact same thing was said to those in Timoleague, Rosscarbery and Leap but they now have perfect Saorview because their relays were upgraded.

2. Anyone who can't get Saorview can get Saorsat

The reason that there's disquiet in these areas is because they can't get Saorview OR Saorsat. They showed people in Annascaul with working Saorsat but that's of little comfort to those who can't get either

It was like a loop

They can't get Saorview -> oh they can get Saorsat -> they can't get that either -> 95% of County Kerry can get Saorview, the rest have Saorsat -> but what I'm saying is that they can't get either -> there are 6 transmitters in the County Kerry, and thse provide ample saorview reception -> *presenter silently gives up*

I can't wait for the massive U turn on this fairly soon when Healy Rae is looking for votes

Capt'n Midnight

marno21 wrote: »

So what you're saying is that nobody should live outside urban areas because it would cost too much to provide them with a working satellite service?

Best endeavour.

TV coverage is far , far better than mobile phone coverage - should we insist that all networks have 100% geographical coverage regardless of cost ?


Large numbers of urban dwellers can't get Free to air TV or satellite because they live in apartments on the wrong side of the building. Ramping up the power or installing more masts would benefit far more people than installing repeaters in Bungalow Blitz land.