Why do we lose muscle?!

Doc Daneeka

Ok, had been making great progress building muscle and loosing fat until a month ago. Was at 89kg body weight and about 15% body fat. Went on hols and then few other things stopped me hitting gym over last month. Also ate pretty badly over the month. Noticed belly is a bit flabbier after this period.

Went yesterday getting back on the wagon and weighed myself for interest. Expected about 91ish due to extra fat but was amazed to find I weighed 87kg. So net I have lost serious muscle over the month. Quite surprised to find it went so easily. Why does this happen? When in prolonged period of no training how does the body figure where to stop shedding muscle. Must say it's a real lesson learned on how easy it is to loose hard gains.

Doc.

Hanley

What makes you so sure it's muscle?

Columbia

It's how we've evolved. Muscle takes a lot of energy to maintain, if you're not using it, it's better for your body to shed it and burn fewer calories (because in our prehistory food wasn't available on demand like it is now).

2-4 kilos of muscle is a lot in one month though, I'd say some other factors must have come into it, hydration, natural weight fluctuation, etc.

Doc Daneeka

Hanley wrote: »

What makes you so sure it's muscle?

Well I'm struggling to see what else it could be...

I'm 2kg lighter and don't appear to have lost fat. Certainly haven't been eating a deficit to allow this. What else could it be? Obviously there will be a bit of up and down depending on hydration but don't think that will affect my result by much more 0.5kg as I've done the weigh in at the same time in the day after work.

Doc.

[-0-]

When the body needs energy it has to decide where to get it. It will use a bit of both. Muscle is harder to break down, but it is a better source of energy than fat. However, the fact that it is harder to break down means the body will take a bit of it and go for the fat reserves then.

That's my understanding - I could be 100% wrong for all I know. If I am, you can be sure I'll be shouted at very shortly.

spr1nt3r

Doc Daneeka wrote: »

Well I'm struggling to see what else it could be...

I'm 2kg lighter and don't appear to have lost fat. Certainly haven't been eating a deficit to allow this. What else could it be? Obviously there will be a bit of up and down depending on hydration but don't think that will affect my result by much more 0.5kg as I've done the weigh in at the same time in the day after work.

Doc.

Did you take the weight check early in the morning or during the day? This can have some stunning differences in reading. Also make sure your scales is on hard floor not carpet. Just my 2 cents..

Doc Daneeka

spr1nt3r wrote: »

Did you take the weight check early in the morning or during the day? This can have some stunning differences in reading. Also make sure your scales is on hard floor not carpet. Just my 2 cents..

Scales is in the gym. One of those mechanical ones so I step on and off and do the measurement a couple of times to make sure I am happy.

Evening after work before gym session. Fluid intake should be roughly the same over the course of a days work.

Am going to measure again this evening to see if there is an change.

Skerries

because it helps us relax, massages are very good for this

oh you meant lose!

spr1nt3r

Doc Daneeka wrote: »

Scales is in the gym. One of those mechanical ones so I step on and off and do the measurement a couple of times to make sure I am happy.

Evening after work before gym session. Fluid intake should be roughly the same over the course of a days work.

Am going to measure again this evening to see if there is an change.

Gym ones can be inaccurate considering the amount of people using it and the lack (if any) of maintenance the equipment receives. I would go and buy one in Argos etc. they are reasonably accurate and use at home in the morning. I actually do exactly that, this way I can spot weight fluctuations more accurately.

double GG

Weight fluctuates greatly with water intake. You can expect to lose up to 1kg in one day if you don't hydrate properly but that's simply water weight.

Weigh yourself in the morning, afternoon and evening. Make sure you weigh yourself at the same time ie- After dinner or before breakfast etc..

All other advice above is all you need. The age old phrase of 'use it or lose it' really is prominent with muscle.

spr1nt3r

double GG wrote: »

Weight fluctuates greatly with water intake. You can expect to lose up to 1kg in one day if you don't hydrate properly but that's simply water weight.

Weigh yourself in the morning, afternoon and evening. Make sure you weigh yourself at the same time ie- After dinner or before breakfast etc..

All other advice above is all you need. The age old phrase of 'use it or lose it' really is prominent with muscle.

Agree. Muscle is dead easy to loose if you don't use it and way harder to gain.

Spunge

i went on holiday during summer for 3.5 weeks, didnt eat much, drank a good bit, and did a lot of walking. didnt lift just the odd bit of bodyweight exercises. i lost about a stone. and it seemed, not a lot of fat, my arms were at least 2 inches smaller than before i left. pretty depressing, but i seemed to gain it back somewhat faster, although it still took maybe 2-3 months.

i was told its actually really hard to lose muscle, but im pretty sure i lost a lot, and i talked to another friend who lifts and he went on a similar holiday and lost even more.

Zombienosh

http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/10-ways-lose-muscle

Pretty interesting

Mellor

Doc Daneeka wrote: »

Evening after work before gym session. Fluid intake should be roughly the same over the course of a days work..

Fluid being "roughly" the same still allows for a bit of variance. A extra 500ml of fluid will be c.0.5kg, then whatever your meals were made up of, or even how many trips to the bathroom you made.

There's also the chance that you last reading was high, making you think you've lost more than you have.

I've had 2kg swings in a day or two.

Doc Daneeka

Mellor wrote: »

Fluid being "roughly" the same still allows for a bit of variance. A extra 500ml of fluid will be c.0.5kg, then whatever your meals were made up of, or even how many trips to the bathroom you made.

There's also the chance that you last reading was high, making you think you've lost more than you have.

I've had 2kg swings in a day or two.

Unlikely the last, i.e. first reading, was high as I had been tracking it closely since I had been experimenting with CKD for a few weeks previously. The 89kg was at the end of the week pre carb load.

The 87kg is possibly more questionable from the hydration, food, etc. perspective as I have as of yet no other current reading to compare with.

brownej

Zombienosh wrote: »

http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/10-ways-lose-muscle

Pretty interesting

Hmmm... Quite a bit of Bro Science in there.

Doc Daneeka

Weighed in again this evening at 88kg in well hydrated state. Feel there is 1 to 2kg of added fat so net of 2kg+ of lost muscle over the month. Suppose this doesn't seem unreasonable.

papu

brownej wrote: »

Hmmm... Quite a bit of Bro Science in there.

Horrible Horrible , so much of this is wrong and just taken as general knowledge when it is in fact absolute garbage with no scientific basis but rather gut feelings and hunches...

OP , it's more than likely water weight with perhaps a little bit of muscle loss. wearing different clothes when weighing yourself can also make a difference , dunno if that can be applied here or not.

some actual science.

The American Council on Exercise affirms that atrophy may begin within only two days of inactivity, and it takes half the time to lose your muscle as it does to gain it. "The Journal of Applied Physiology" research charted an average muscle loss of approximately .6 percent per day for the first 30 days in the studies reviewed. After that period, the rate of atrophy leveled as the skeletal muscle adapted to the lack of activity.

"Journal of Applied Physiology"; Alterations of Protein Turnover Underlying Disuse Atrophy in Human Skeletal Muscle; S.M. Phillips, et al.; July 2009

From this page

The max rate you can gain muscle is about 1.25 pounds a month , so double that is about 2.5 pounds which is just over a kilo.

Doc Daneeka

papu wrote: »

The max rate you can gain muscle is about 1.25 pounds a month , so double that is about 2.5 pounds which is just over a kilo.

I would question the 1.25lb a month gain limit albeit with no evidence bar personal experience.

Tracked weight and body fat % (measured properly with callipers) through the summer as I was quite a bit overweight. Based on the measurements I gained 7kg muscle over 5 months. Also lost several kilos body fat in this period.

papu

Doc Daneeka wrote: »

I would question the 1.25lb a month gain limit albeit with no evidence bar personal experience.

Tracked weight and body fat % (measured properly with callipers) through the summer as I was quite a bit overweight. Based on the measurements I gained 7kg muscle over 5 months. Also lost several kilos body fat in this period.

It's just from what I've read the MAX amount you can put on , I mean you can work it out yourself using this http://www.builtlean.com/2011/03/30/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain-naturally/

Doc Daneeka

papu wrote: »

It's just from what I've read the MAX amount you can put on , I mean you can work it out yourself using this http://www.builtlean.com/2011/03/30/how-much-muscle-can-you-gain-naturally/

Would need some measurements I don't have to try the third formula there but the first two seem pretty meaningless. The equivalent of a BMI score. According to them I have already maxed out lean muscle gain and I am far from a bodybuilder.