Skiing in France- Winter 2012/2013

TOOYOUNGTODIE

Booked the Ferry and tunnel today, going from the 27th of December to the 6th of January, three of us in my 1993 Karmann Cheetah. I cant wait.

I'm trying to a list of things together that I will need. I will be staying in france for the whole trip. Three days skiing in Les Trois Vallee and three days in Alpe d'Heuz. Has any one done a ski trip in their motorhome.

Do i need winter tyres or will a set of cheap chains get me out of trouble.

Roll on Christmas

Bigus

I don't know about French alps but in Austria it's the law to have winter tyres during winter.
Enjoy the trip!

TOOYOUNGTODIE

BIGUS- I'm not going to Austria, I did a full inspection of the van over the weekend, and as luck would have it, I have michelin agilis mud&snow tyres so it should be perfect. I know they are not a full winter but they will be sufficent, i hope to stay in bourg st. maurice, whcih is at 840m so below the legal limit.

Does anyone know if I will have to book a space in bourg st. maurice as i'm trying to avoid booking incase snow is bad.

I also noticed the rear shocks were weeping so I ordered a new sat of sachs heavy duty shocks. I'll hopefully it them and put in new antifreeze over the weekend.

Has anyone used the breakdown cover in the stuarts camper policy, will that do me in france or am I better off buying another??

sligo camper

Is it not only 97 posts ago that you were bricking it taking out your newly acquired camper van?

now youre thinking of going over the french mountains in winter....

A number of years ago, (when we all had money ) I travelled from Friedrichstaffen in Germany, to Basel in France, down to Newchattel in Switzerland following the Irish football team ( senior and underage) by rental car and that was enough Hill driving for me.... and that was in October (?)

Good luck!

niloc1951

Chains are often mandatory on high roads if snow is present, don't take a chance without them if there is no snow when going as you might end up unable to travel if it snows while you are there.

Not often considered here in 'warm' Ireland, but make sure you have Propane gas as Butane does not work when it goes below zero.

Michelin Agilis Camping tyres are M+S rated, don't know about the ordinary agilis, check the side-walls.

If your camper is tail heavy and front wheel drive be aware that you could loose traction when going up-hill if the road is steep and wet or slippery :eek:

As you are planning to go skiing have a contingency plan if you damage a body part and are unable to drive

Apologies for the doom and gloom stuff

And I hope you have a fantastic experience

paddyp

You can only use chains where the road is completely covered. You'd be taking them on and off constantly. Firtly is against the law to use chains on clear road as they damage the pavement. Secondly over clear pavement they'll heat up, wear and can damage the tyres. If you're caught with chains on dry road theres a fine of up to 750euro I don't know how the gendarmes enforce this but I know in austria they will fine and can and do impound people vehicles.

Some roads would be completely clear, some completely covered, some partially covered. Even ploughed and gritted roads will have areas of snow drift NOT fun to hit one of those on summer tyres.

If they have m+s on the walls like niloc says should be fine.It doesn't have to be anywhere near freezin either to get the benefit of an snow tyre, from 7C down it will be better grip.

niloc1951

http://www.lidl.ie/cps/rde/xchg/SID-31B655F3-E2B954E6/lidl_ri_ie/hs.xsl/index_26224.htm :D

TOOYOUNGTODIE

Thanks for the replies.

My van has 4 Michilen Agilis M& S tyres fitted, an all-season tyre, not a full winter but M& S.. I’m bringing a set of hommade rope snow chains as well(see youtube, ive used them on my own car in 2010 and they were great).

I’ll only be going to France, unless snow is scarce and I have to go further. But the French Alps are high so I should be ok.
I intend on not climbing too high and most campsites and aires I’m looking at staying in are at 800m or less. From looking on French websites, chains are mandatory if I go over 1200m. A lot of resorts would be in that bracket.

Common sense dictates the lower I am the warmer the weather so I plan on staying Bourg St. Maurice if snow permits for most of the trip. its a 30minute gondola up in the morning to the paradis ski area. I wont need chains there I hope. I will try go to courchevel for two nights which is high but I’v skied since I was 16 on fly drive holidays and never used chains, the public roads are usually very clear. My only worry is that access roads to campsites, aires etc might not be well maintained. But I’ll have a shovel and some carpet so should get me moving to get on a main road.

I changed the antifreeze/coolant in the van last week and put a very high ratio of antifreeze/coolant in. She is fully serviced and ready to go. I washed out the diesel tank, the amount of gunge and grud in the bottom was unreal.

I also got external thermal screens and an oil filled radiator. I’m really looking forward to the trip, I’v booked the chunnel, so it’ll be a new experience and different than the ferry. Leaving December 27th , home the 6th of January if anyone fancies tagging along.

One question:
I have fitted two new 85amp batteries, I just have enough space under the drivers seat to allow for this, I had to make minor adjustments to the seat frame. I have also fitted a 1000w pure sine inverter. How long could I run a 450w outout oil filled rad for. Is there a calculation I can use for power usage? I hate the thought of sleeping with the gas heater on and I want to know can I use the heater when I’m driving down through the UK and France. Or if I have to wild camp in courchevel for two nights.
I dont have solar panels fitted, maybe they would help supplement the batteries.

TOOYOUNGTODIE

At Lough Key over the bank holiday

niloc1951

The 450 watt heater, which btw wont make much of a dent in the temperature of the 'van, when run off 12 volts, which in reality it is as the inverter is drawing off 12 volt will use 450 ÷ 12 = 37.5 amps per hour plus a bit more for the loss within the inverter. Even with 2 X 75 ah batteries a couple of hours will see them fairly flattened.

If your heater is of the balanced flue or simple external flue type SEE HERE, and most are, there is no risk to running it overnight once it is in good order. I regularly leave mine on overnight in cold weather. Just make sure you have a good supply of propane.

For cold weather travelling having the gas heater on is not a good idea for many reasons.

The best system to heat the living area when travelling is a separate heater plumbed into the vehicle cooling system.
This can be done by teeing off from the hose to the dash heater and via controls from a doner vehicle supply heated water to a second heater rad and fan assembly also from a doner vehicle. this can be boxed in in the bottom of a seat box or bed box towards the rear of the vehicle and blowing out through a grill, like the ones used for a fridge vent. This can be a very inexpensive option if you have a friendly local scrappie.
All Rapido motorhomes employ this system as standard, though not from scrappie parts .

kaysho

There is a campsite in Bourg called le Versoyen that will do you a nice rate I'm sure, especially 3 off you, should work out good value and will allow you to shower and dry clothes - http://www.leversoyen.com/gb3.html#

there are many campers over winter - its very popular

I have done a few seasons in my motorhome - a 1976 dodge Brougham - I would say that the obvious points are that things are going to freeze - so water systems probably won't work unless they are amazingly insulated - also heating is important - i fitted a wood burner in mine - i bought it from Windysmithy.com
http://www.windysmithy.co.uk/woodburners/wendy - its a great burner that heats you up till your in a shorts and t shirt and baking- very cosy and easy to dry most things - if choosing another burner I would upgrade to one that i can cook on if push comes to shove but the Wendy stove is perfect - i didn't want to rely on propane for heat and frankly i don't trust gas heating - always makes me feel queasy....having a wood burner in the mountains is ace.

as for snow chains - In bourg you probably won't need them but you may want to head up to the ski lifts so you shd at least take some (nothing better than waiting in the carparks till everyones gone and chilling in the mountains as it gets darks with a cup off tea - makes you first on the slopes too in the morning before everyone churns it all up - i try and stay in the car parks quite a lot - there is even electric at some off them and nearly always a toilet block )

the trip takes a while too - i can only trundle at 55 mph max - with stops etc and tiredness - breakdowns??? (hope not) give yourself plenty of time to get there-

ALSO breakdown cover is great in France - I've needed it twice and its been amazing both times -

Peace - may see you there - knock on if you spot the van

paddyp

TOOYOUNGTODIE wrote: »

One question:
I have fitted two new 85amp batteries, I just have enough space under the drivers seat to allow for this, I had to make minor adjustments to the seat frame. I have also fitted a 1000w pure sine inverter. How long could I run a 450w outout oil filled rad for. Is there a calculation I can use for power usage? I hate the thought of sleeping with the gas heater on and I want to know can I use the heater when I’m driving down through the UK and France. Or if I have to wild camp in courchevel for two nights.
I dont have solar panels fitted, maybe they would help supplement the batteries.

Taking into account inverter efficiency 450W heater would represent about a C/5 load to those batteries so they'd power it for about 4 hours before the battery voltage would be critical.

A 12V blanket might do.

kaysho

but your not even going to Bourg - what a dummy i am for not reading where your even heading -
anyway - Car parks - recommended - most you can stay on all day for too -

TOOYOUNGTODIE

I was in LIDL this morning at 8.00am before work, got my snow chains.For €25.00 you couldnt go wrong for a motorhome, the next best value I saw online for chains that fit my wheels was 65 sterling to the door.

Snow Chains are also excellent if you have to drive on wet grass or mud. I saw a VW hippy bus with chains on get out of the mud at Electric picnic a few years ago were as all the others were stuck fast.

Bring on the snow and Ice now I say, another bonus is they will fit my car also.:D:cool:

Those chains are mighty tempting...that's €50 for all four though they only come in sets of 2. Loads left on the shelf I was in today. I'm more of a let the air outta the tyres kinda guy when it comes to getting unstuck. That and I park beside 4x4's in fields.
Can't help but think it'd be a bittova job to jack up the axle in a mud-fest.

Thought it worth mentioning also to keep an eye on the thermostat on those mountains. May not be an issue so much in the Winter, but I did the Pyrennes one Summer with the blowers on full and the windows open most of the way (keeping the blowers on cycles all of the coolant through the rad. and keeps the temp. down).

I think heating will be a big issue. You will probably need whatever you are using running 24/7. Having the heat on while you're not in will keep everything from freezing and make the place hospitable.

I second the wood burner suggestion, use coal when it's sub zero...it burns longer and hotter. Ideally fuel should be still glowing in the morning for obvious health or getting up in the middle of the night reasons.
Many a morning I've woken up too frozen to think for an hour until after I relit the burner.

I don't think electric heat is at all practical to run off batteries due to it's high consumption, inefficiency and limited supply.
It's a lot easier find fuel than mains.
As well you need the batteries for light, etc. Running too much off the same source will cause you problems (unless you find space for another 600ah or more).
Also a burner's great at defrosting/drying things and it's an extra hob.
I also agree with kaysho re; gas heating makes me queasy.

How sound are your seals? Draft excluders may be required.
Cold air comes in under my doors like a knife edge about -10 degrees.

I went for Berlin in the Winter/Spring two years back and I nearly turned around and came home when I was down to my last pack of turf briquettes...then I discovered German coal briquettes...cwaor...still have 5 left for emergencies.

Don't let me dissuade you though I'm half tempted to go myself....hmmm....snow chains....

TOOYOUNGTODIE

9 days to go, with the busy schedule ahead, I packed her up last weekend. test fitted my snow chains, topped up antifreeze, filled the two gas tanks, etc. i'm ready to roll now.

For heating I have gas, a 450w oil filled rad, and a fan heater.
I was away two weekends ago, and I had an old electric blanket running off the inverter, it used 5% of my double 86amh battery in a 12 hour period and I was really warm. Should be great for stopping over on the way down and keeping the bed warm when running off the mains on hook up. It'll be needed,it -9 at town i'm camping in right now!![

More good news, is that I booked a campsite in Bourg St. Maurice, at the foot of Les Arcs, and the snow looks amazing.

Roll on the 27th, is anyone else on the 8.05am ferry from dublin - hollyhead???
It would be great to travel to Folkstone/Dover in convoy.

I also presume i'll be taking the truck train at the Chunnel and wont be able to stay in the van for the crossing, has anyone done this.

finyar

When you get to the channel tunnel, you will be loaded on the normal car train with the over height cars ( bikes on the roof etc ) other vans /campers and buses. You wont be on the freight train.

During the crossing (35 min) you will be sitting in your camper so you will be able to relax.

Tip is to boil the kettle just before you are asked to turn off your gas and then have a meal in your van durinig the crossing, this will save you time on the other side.

Enjoy your trip

Finyar

TOOYOUNGTODIE

Just back from a great trip. 3,500km and no breakdowns, only one flat tyre.
Lidl snow chains came in very handy, I wouldnt have been able to move around resports or campsite without it.

Here is a pic of the campsite, its dark because I took pic in the early morning.

finyar

Delighted you enjoyed your trip, we are planning to go on March 22nd have you any tips??

Finyar