Karma - does it exist?

The Big Red Button

People mention "karma" in conversation all of the time.

Does anyone actually believe in it? Anyone?

In my opinion, it's absolute bull. Good things happen to bad people all of the time. Bad things happen to good people all of the time.

To me, it almost seems insulting. Really horrible misfortunate things happen to very lovely people ... the concept of "karma" implies that it's their fault?!

I don't like the idea, myself. And I'm of a logical scientific mind, so I have no belief in the whole thing.

Just curious, really, as to whether many believe this?

BrianG23

**** happens, whether it's good or bad. It just happens. Imo

No

Actions have consequences, yes.
Chance still happens, such as misfortunate events

there are other forces beside karma that shape our lives. These include natural forces like the changing seasons and gravity. When a natural disaster like an earthquake strikes a community, this is not some kind of collective karmic punishment. It's an unfortunate event that requires a compassionate response, not judgment.

It's about cause and effect, not some cosmic justice system.

philologos

No karma doesn't exist. Rotten things happen to good people, and often "the wicked prosper" as King David put it.

Mr Benevolent

No.

OW!

jimthemental

Actions have consequences, fair enough but not in the way karma implies. If I drop a bag of lets say illegally held guns into a river the only consequence is going to be displaced water.

sbsquarepants

philologos wrote: »

No karma doesn't exist. Rotten things happen to good people, and often "the wicked prosper" as King David put it.

Don't forget the auld mysterious ways bullshít that the christians (such as yourself) love so much:D

philologos

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Don't forget the auld mysterious ways bullshít that the christians (such as yourself) love so much:D

Funnily enough, I can't recall using that specific term myself since posting on boards.ie

Duggy747

No.

Otherwise Gary Glitter would be dead and Freddie Mercury would be still banging out tunes.

jimthemental

philologos wrote: »

Funnily enough, I can't recall using that specific term myself since posting on boards.ie

You just quoted King David.

jimthemental

No

jimthemental wrote: »

Actions have consequences, fair enough but not in the way karma implies. If I drop a bag of lets say illegally held guns into a river the only consequence is going to be displaced water.

And then someone might pick them up and find that they work and use them for something else, yes. Or nothing else will happen and they'll rot in the bottom of the river.
Who knows

Pherekydes

No

Yes and no, as per the poll.

sbsquarepants

philologos wrote: »

Funnily enough, I can't recall using that specific term myself since posting on boards.ie

Ok, you're free to go due to a technicality. You must have some good karma stored up or something!!:)

Scanlas The 2nd

The Indian takeaway near me does it so yes. And it's lovely.

philologos

jimthemental wrote: »

You just quoted King David.

I know I did Some of his Psalms deal with the subject of good things happening to bad people, and vice versa.

Dravokivich

chatterpillar wrote: »

I don't like the idea, myself. And I'm of a logical scientific mind,

So you let people pick both answers?

:P

Not much of a believer in Karma myself. Sometimes bad things happen, sometimes good things happen, neither in general are directly related to each other.

Chuck Stone

Christians quietly revel in the idea of karma a vengeful god who sends people to hell to have red hot pitch forks stuck up their arses for all eternity while they watch from godland eating grapes and sipping on gin and juice.

charlemont

No

Yes I'v seen so many bad people have awful things happen to them.

andrew241983

No

Yes its a nightclub on the Jersey Shore that is frequented by Pauly D

endacl

Only in the sense of 'can I borrow the car, ma?'.

If you've been good, your ma will let you borrow the car.

BrianG23

bluewolf wrote: »

Actions have consequences, yes.
Chance still happens, such as misfortunate events



It's about cause and effect, not some cosmic justice system.

Yeah but Karma itself is about cause and effect ~ Chosen by god. Cause and effect are real of course, but whether or not you believe the full swing of karma is different. Karma goes an extra mile. Or so I hear

Madam_X

charlemont wrote: »

Yes I'v seen so many bad people have awful things happen to them.

Horrendous things happen to good people/absolute ***** get away with awful stuff. It's just a comforting idea that all evil-doers will be punished, doubtful it's a reality.

The fact bad people have had awful things happen to them is simply... awful things happen to people whether they're good or bad. It's part of life. If someone rapes a child and the rapist gets battered nearly to death by the child's family, that's not a mystical force, it's just an expected outcome.

BrianG23

No

BrianG23 wrote: »

Yeah but Karma itself is about cause and effect ~ Chosen by god. Cause and effect are real of course, but whether or not you believe the full swing of karma is different. Karma goes an extra mile. Or so I hear

Karma has nothing to do with a god. General myth holds that if there are any, they'd be subject to it too.

flutterflye

I'm glad to see that 'No' seems to be winning in the poll.
Sometimes it seems as though the majority of people believe in that kind of nonsense.

The Big Red Button

Dravokivich wrote: »

So you let people pick both answers?

:P

Yes, because who am I to dictate what people feel! :P If someone wants to pick both answers, let'em at it!!!

Madam_X wrote: »

Horrendous things happen to good people/absolute ***** get away with awful stuff. It's just a comforting idea, doubtful it's a reality though.

But why is it a comforting idea?

When something awful happens to a really lovely good person? Who clearly doesn't deserve it? You're hardly going to say "Aw well, ya know, karma" in that case?

Madam_X

Oh I know. It's comforting only when it suits.

BBDBB

no, not karma, the idea of a "good" or "bad" thing I do being somehow paid for by some unrelated good or bad thing happening to me doesnt seem logical or sensical to me

I do believe that decisions have consequences, make bad ones consistently and sooner or later its inevitable that the consequence catches up with you.
Make good ones consistently and whilst it doesnt stop misfortune heading your way I reckon you are more likely to be in a better position to deal with it.

Overthrow

Actually had a conversation about it the other night with someone who did believe in karma. My argument was that if you believe everybody is born equal in terms of their karma (karma zero, let's say), then everybody must also die with karma zero, otherwise it's contradictory to its own rules. If you think bad people can have a disproportionately easy life, or good people have a disproportionately hard life, then you can't believe in karma.

philologos

Overthrow wrote: »

Actually had a conversation about it the other night with someone who did believe in karma. My argument was that if you believe everybody is born equal in terms of their karma (karma zero, let's say), then everybody must also die with karma zero, otherwise it's contradictory to its own rules. If you think bad people can have a disproportionately easy life, or good people have a disproportionately hard life, then you can't believe in karma.

Even though I don't believe in karma, I don't see the logic of your point. Why must everyone die with karma zero?

philologos

No

philologos wrote: »

Even though I don't believe in karma, I don't see the logic of your point. Why must everyone die with karma zero?

Because he doesn't realise the idea of karma is inherently linked with rebirth and dharma

Sauve

I believe in karma but in the sciencey sense that 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction'. I dunno if youd necessarily call it karma though.
Makes sense in my head

girl2

Overthrow wrote: »

Actually had a conversation about it the other night with someone who did believe in karma. My argument was that if you believe everybody is born equal in terms of their karma (karma zero, let's say), then everybody must also die with karma zero, otherwise it's contradictory to its own rules. If you think bad people can have a disproportionately easy life, or good people have a disproportionately hard life, then you can't believe in karma.

However…for those who believe in life after death, etc. the belief here is the karma is spread across several lifetimes, therefore you could actually be born with a hell of a lot of good or bad karma - so in actual fact, people who are born with bad karma, can spend their lives being good - makin up for all the bad in previous lifetimes.

For me - I do believe in karma - I've seen some pretty bad people out there get their comeuppance in life and rightly deserved. I like to believe that the good I do in life is doing something good for someone.

And to be fair - we all go with the concept that good deeds = good karma and bad deeds = bad karma. I think it's a much much bigger concept than that - one that I know far too little about to make a decent argument for or against, except for my own humble opinion.

endacl

Sauve wrote: »

I believe in karma but in the sciencey sense that 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction'. I dunno if youd necessarily call it karma though.
Makes sense in my head

You've got some science? Explain it so. Newton described physical reactions, not moral ones. Karma is foolishness. Believed by the gullible. Transplanting theories between modalities sometimes works. It usually doesn't. It specifically doesn't here.

philologos

Sauve wrote: »

I believe in karma but in the sciencey sense that 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction'. I dunno if youd necessarily call it karma though.
Makes sense in my head

Does every action have an equal and opposite reaction?

I'm very sure that there are many people who do what is evil, who will get through life with very little suffering.

Likewise, I'm very sure that there are many people who do what is good, who will get through life with much suffering, often on the account of doing what's good.

It seems like karma requires a belief in moral objectivism. If there is no objective standard of good and evil, who is to say what is good, and what is evil. Or do we just make it up ourselves? If so it seems rather redundant.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to what the underpinnings of karma belief are in respect to morality.

philologos

No

philologos wrote: »

It seems like karma requires a belief in moral objectivism. If there is no objective standard of good and evil, who is to say what is good, and what is evil. Or do we just make it up ourselves? If so it seems rather redundant.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me as to what the underpinnings of karma belief are in respect to morality.

http://buddhism.about.com/od/karmaandrebirth/a/karma.htm

9959

Sauve wrote: »

I believe in karma but in the sciencey sense that 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction'. I dunno if youd necessarily call it karma though.
Makes sense in my head

I don't believe that's karma, I believe that's called 'every action having an equal and opposite reaction', call it karma if you like, or call it French toast.

Careful on all this 'karma' business, the former manager of England's football team - Glen Hoddle - lost his job for waxing lyrical on the transmigration of souls.

Delirium

yes, but it was de-activated after posters abused the system :P

--Kaiser--

Such a ridiculous concept.
You should do good unto others because it's the right thing to, not because of some farcical cosmic balancing act.
You've got to wonder at people who need supposed supernatural punishment to keep them from bad deeds

Rigol

No

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Christians quietly revel in the idea of karma a vengeful god who sends people to hell to have red hot pitch forks stuck up their arses for all eternity while they watch from godland eating grapes and sipping on gin and juice.

The key bit that gets left out is that karma is combined with re-incarnation.
I.e - a total bastard can get away with it in this life...but in part 2 he gets born into sh.it conditions. (sometimes ironic ones in Buddhist stories)

In Christianity god is referred to ..or refers to himself... as 'the law'.*
When you die you (the soul) come(s) under gods perfect judgement and gets reward or punishment.

Earlier the Buddha described karma as a natural 'law'...and its seen to be perfect in the same sense of any other universal law
When you die, from a Buddhist perspective, your karma causes (judges) which realm you (your consciousness) goes to (god, demi-god, human, animal, ghost, demon). This keeps happening til you get enlightened and snap out of the illusion of existence....apparently.


*no cowboy jokes pls

Fluorescence

I don't believe in Karma as a sort of cosmological justice system, but I do believe that if someone is basically a good person who does good things for others, good things will happen for them in return. No one wants to help out an arsehole.

Sure, bad things happen to good people all the time, but if you try to live a decent life you will reap what you sow. Eventually :P

Canis Lupus

Fluorescence wrote: »

I don't believe in Karma as a sort of cosmological justice system, but I do believe that if someone is basically a good person who does good things for others, good things will happen for them in return. No one wants to help out an arsehole.

Sure, bad things happen to good people all the time, but if you try to live a decent life you will reap what you sow. Eventually :P

But only through the actions of people being aware of your good deeds and then being willing to act on them. The 'universe' won't just repay you with nice things for dressing up in a costume and fighting crime at night.

Rigol

No

Canis Lupus wrote: »

But only through the actions of people being aware of your good deeds and then being willing to act on them. The 'universe' won't just repay you with nice things for dressing up in a costume and fighting crime at night.

No, but your consciousness might be reborn after your death into a city with slightly less crime

DyldeBrill

No

A lot of the time we determine our own luck and faith, wouldn't exactly call it karma!

old hippy

It's a nice idea but that's all it is, an idea.

philologos

Fluorescence wrote: »

I don't believe in Karma as a sort of cosmological justice system, but I do believe that if someone is basically a good person who does good things for others, good things will happen for them in return. No one wants to help out an arsehole.

Sure, bad things happen to good people all the time, but if you try to live a decent life you will reap what you sow. Eventually :P

I might be opening a can of worms here

I think it depends on how we define "good" and "evil".

I believe there will be a judgement, but the reality is that every single person has done what is wrong. On that note, we're all guilty in one way or another.

Can anyone be saved? Sure, by grace alone.

old hippy

philologos wrote: »

I might be opening a can of worms here

I think it depends on how we define "good" and "evil".

I believe there will be a judgement, but the reality is that every single person has done what is wrong. On that note, we're all guilty in one way or another.

Can anyone be saved? Sure, by grace alone.

How did a discussion about karma turn into yet more Xtian propaganda?

As for everyone being guilty - depends on what propaganda you allow determine your life.

philologos

Well, it depends on what is real and true. Even if I believe X or Y, if something's real then X or Y didn't really matter all that much.

I'm just giving my POV like everyone else has done on this thread. If you have an issue report my post, and a moderator on After Hours will sort me out, and I'll gladly heed their direction.

PizzamanIRL

No

I voted yes, just for good karma.

eyescreamcone

Gary Player said
"The more I practice, the luckier I get"

Is this the type of Karma/equal and opposite reaction people are talking about???


In reality there is no karma!
It was invented to try to make people be good, like heaven/hell.
Santa Claus for adults in fact.

Princess Peach

No

I believe in karma in 2 senses, the short term and the long term. Not sure if the word karma is correct but this is what I believe!

I think in the short term being a good person pays off in some ways. Or course bad circumstances befall good people, but the way you treat others does have a baring on your life and your happiness.

And then I believe on a larger scale that the way you live your life has baring on what happens to your soul when you die. And any circumstances, good or bad in your life arise either through human decision, or are part of God's plan for you.

That's just my beliefs. And I think no matter what a person's beliefs may be, everyone should strive to be a good person

paperclip2

Yes:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=2038