Progressive Genetics AI Bulls for a heifer

TMSHope · 18-10-2012 12:32pm #1

I have a Yellow Charolais Heifer out of Pirate. She is from a Simmental cow with good milk. She is coming up on 2 years so going get the AI for her soon when she is on again.

Would any of ye have suggestions for a good easy calving Limosein bull from Progressive Gentics to use on her or maybe should go with Aberdeen Angus.

I had a Limosein heifer this year that calved to FL22 (Archibeau) and she went 21 days over time. The calf was massive. FL22 was easy calving so just want to make the right choice with this one.

Do you think NINO (NIN) the limosein bull could be got yet or would straws be expensive. He is easy calving from a few years back and brought fantastic calves. thanks

pakalasa · 18-10-2012 12:37pm

You could try AHZ. I've used him a while back but no calves yet. NIN was a great bull alright. He bred nice cows too, if they were quiet.

tanko · 18-10-2012 1:32pm

Dont know if you can still get Nino straws now, have never used him. Would he not be a bit risky on a heifer. I have used HCA on my heifers for a couple of years now, he's easy calved. His calves have decent shape and are quiet. Calves wont be the biggest tho. He's a safe option.

Have never used AHZ, he looks a good option for you.

If you want to play it really safe the AA bull KDU is very easy calved. KYA looks a nice AA bull for heifers.

bogman_bass · 18-10-2012 7:09pm

NIN is gone. HCA and AHZ are both good options. HCA has milk if you want replacements.

KDU is a good angus as are RWZ and GJB

I wouldnt use KYA on a beef cow hes only really for dairy heifers

TMSHope · 18-10-2012 7:42pm

Thanks all for the suggestions

wiggy123 · 18-10-2012 7:55pm

FIW be a good bull, if can get him angus wise..or use the red angus LZE

rayzorsharpest · 18-10-2012 10:12pm

HCA or AHZ u couldnt go wrong with them, ive seen calves and their both good & square. The biggest problems guys have with calving is not resticting their cows b4 calving, eg:feeding hay or bare ground, Feeding ad-lib silage is a disaster.

bogman_bass · 18-10-2012 10:16pm

wiggy123 wrote: »

FIW be a good bull, if can get him angus wise..or use the red angus LZE

FIW straws are like gold dust and I wouldnt consider LZE easy calved

limo_100 · 18-10-2012 10:35pm

bogman_bass wrote: »

FIW straws are like gold dust and I wouldnt consider LZE easy calved

How has LZE reports being bogman?? I have two heifer calves from him one of them will be calving soon... Does he have a good maternal side?? Also how has OZS reports being?

rayzorsharpest · 18-10-2012 10:38pm

I wouldnt use LZE on heifers, his a high performance angus.Heard some very good reports on quality of calves off cows.
OZS is fairly ok on heifers, just be carefull his not v.easy.

bogman_bass · 19-10-2012 9:26am

limo_100 wrote: »

How has LZE reports being bogman?? I have two heifer calves from him one of them will be calving soon... Does he have a good maternal side?? Also how has OZS reports being?

LZE breeding very nice females. crosses well on limos apparently. Good drop of milk with them.

OZS calves seem tio be a little harder calved than first expected but turning into nice calves. Good backends

limo_100 · 19-10-2012 9:38am

bogman_bass wrote: »

LZE breeding very nice females. crosses well on limos apparently. Good drop of milk with them.

OZS calves seem tio be a little harder calved than first expected but turning into nice calves. Good backends

thanks bogman i was thinking of putting APZ on heifers is he recommended for them??? also is he a big bull or would he be best crossed on tall heifers??

tanko · 19-10-2012 9:44am

Are red angus bulls like LZE completely polled in the same way as black angus bulls?

limo_100 · 19-10-2012 9:45am

tanko wrote: »

Are red angus bulls like LZE completely polled in the same way as black angus bulls?

I have and there both off charolais heifers and they were both polled which is very handy...

rayzorsharpest · 19-10-2012 10:05am

LZE is a full angus & totally polled. APZ is easy calving u can use him on heifers no problem.

bogman_bass · 19-10-2012 10:59am

limo_100 wrote: »

thanks bogman i was thinking of putting APZ on heifers is he recommended for them??? also is he a big bull or would he be best crossed on tall heifers??

he's spitting calves out.

bull himself is a bit butty. would want a tall heifer alright

pakalasa · 19-10-2012 12:07pm

bogman_bass wrote: »

he's spitting calves out.

bull himself is a bit butty. would want a tall heifer alright

Have you seen any APZ weanlings yet? Do they stay small?

bogman_bass · 19-10-2012 2:20pm

I havent no

rayzorsharpest · 19-10-2012 7:30pm

There are only calves on the ground yet. They look good and strong, the ones i have seen wer not butty.
Have any of ye used Adajio the BB or LGL the charlois??
I have super calves off both.

limo_100 · 19-10-2012 7:45pm

rayzorsharpest wrote: »

There are only calves on the ground yet. They look good and strong, the ones i have seen wer not butty.
Have any of ye used Adajio the BB or LGL the charlois??
I have super calves off both.

any chance of a few photos....!!!!

i had heard Adajio is breeding serious calves what kind of cows did you put them two bulls on??

Also were the APZ calves you seen growing tall?

rayzorsharpest · 19-10-2012 7:53pm

I have attached a file of a adajio calf off a black LM cow. First time ive uploaded pics, can ye see attachement??

mikeoh · 19-10-2012 11:24pm

wiggy123 wrote: »

FIW be a good bull, if can get him angus wise..or use the red angus LZE

Anyone use TFX.? What are calves like?

wiggy123 · 20-10-2012 7:23pm

heard FIW is scarce.. had 2 pedigree heifers from him in 2011.. nice ladies/femine..well made! mayb flighty...
heard LZE can be hard calving... but is siring good stock..

TFX--used him... pedigree herd i have, have a nice april heifer from him..will try to get a pic up.. shes incalf to him again

Seaba · 20-10-2012 9:06pm

rayzorsharpest wrote: »

I have attached a file of a adajio calf off a black LM cow. First time ive uploaded pics, can ye see attachement??

Great calf.
Is he hard calved?

Bigbird1 · 21-10-2012 6:53am

rayzorsharpest wrote: »

I have attached a file of a adajio calf off a black LM cow. First time ive uploaded pics, can ye see attachement??

Ya i think adajio is one of the best bulls available at the min,goin by calves i have seen by him and what i have been hearing from those who have used him,great replacement for BYU i think.

For a heifer i hear of good reports from people using fl27

rayzorsharpest · 21-10-2012 12:40pm

Ya his the best blue out there at da mo. He is doing a great job on average cows.His average calving, very similar to BYU.

As reguards heifers u couldnt go too far wrong with using HCA or AHZ. HCA also has a drop of milk so option to keep on heifers off him.

rayzorsharpest · 21-10-2012 12:42pm

Seen some GJB (goulding jumbo king calves,there good square calves. Not very easy calving but fine on mature heifers id say

pakalasa · 21-10-2012 4:17pm

So would ye reckon Adajio (AJY) is better than Sultan (STQ)

rayzorsharpest · 21-10-2012 5:11pm

Sultan is good too, but u need good cows for him. 3/4 bred LMs or pure LMs. Whereas AJY is working well on average cows.

Seaba · 22-10-2012 9:12am

rayzorsharpest wrote: »

Seen some GJB (goulding jumbo king calves,there good square calves. Not very easy calving but fine on mature heifers id say

Ya, thats one thing I have found more and more recently - you cannot just say to the AI man anymore 'give the heifer a black' - you have to be specific, as not all Aberdeen Angus's are easy calving. Especially with one AI man in our area who says every new bull is easy calving even though the reliability figures are less than 30%.

Buncha Fives · 04-03-2013 10:15am

Sorry for dragging up an old thread!!

Iv'e five white head heifers out of BR friesan cows to put in calf, will aim to get them AI'd after Paddys Day with view to calving down in early January 2014. I was thinking of putting them in calf to a Limo (will probably use Progressive Genetics but Dovea is also available), anyone got any idea/experience of what would be a good bull to use.

2 of the WH heifers are small enough so it will need to be something very easy calving for both of them. There is no point in leaving them until later to bull because they have the age behind them and they are just small by nature and if I leave them for another few months they will just start getting fat.

mikeoh · 04-03-2013 1:08pm

Buncha Fives wrote: »

Sorry for dragging up an old thread!!

Iv'e five white head heifers out of BR friesan cows to put in calf, will aim to get them AI'd after Paddys Day with view to calving down in early January 2014. I was thinking of putting them in calf to a Limo (will probably use Progressive Genetics but Dovea is also available), anyone got any idea/experience of what would be a good bull to use.

2 of the WH heifers are small enough so it will need to be something very easy calving for both of them. There is no point in leaving them until later to bull because they have the age behind them and they are just small by nature and if I leave them for another few months they will just start getting fat.

PG have a lim bull KHH , very easy calving and top class calves .......I think he is rip but straws still around ....his "stars" are bad but I have some lovely calves off him this year ,I'll be going back to him again ...ideal for small heifers.

bogman_bass · 04-03-2013 3:35pm

HCA is probably the safest bet. Would you concider a good angus like GJB?

Buncha Fives · 04-03-2013 3:47pm

Wouldnt be mad on the angus to be honest, because the heifers are plain enough in shape and the angus calf would probably end up being very plane. The heifers should have plenty of milk so my thinking is if I can get a limo calf out of them it will develop into a nice shapely kind of animal.

GoodMan55985 · 04-03-2013 3:52pm

IMO i'd say HauteClare (HCA) or Achile (AHZ) are grand, two good limos. I gave AHZ to my heifers at Christmas. The AI man said he easy calving two. One of these two should be grand, HCA is meant to be very good for having milky daughters and I see AHZ on the PG facebook page as one of the top sires. The two Elite bulls are there too along with a new one I can't remember the name of.

Future Farmer · 08-05-2015 2:58pm

HCA & AHZ gone now, but ZAG & FTY seem to be doing well.

welton john · 10-05-2015 4:49pm

Future Farmer wrote: »

HCA & AHZ gone now, but ZAG & FTY seem to be doing well.

still plenty of hca left

TPF2012 · 10-05-2015 7:50pm

welton john wrote: »

still plenty of hca left

None left according to AI man.

welton john · 10-05-2015 7:58pm

TPF2012 wrote: »

None left according to AI man.

a few cows here that would disagree. asked ai man and he can still get plenty,munster prob have them an pg out

Mac Taylor · 10-05-2015 8:06pm

Plenty hca around here ATM. Ahz is a different story though.

Future Farmer · 20-05-2015 7:23am

So it's a cause of Munster have and Progressive have not?

ZAG seems to be doing the business anyway!

limo_100 · 20-05-2015 10:53am

Future Farmer wrote: »

So it's a cause of Munster have and Progressive have not?

ZAG seems to be doing the business anyway!

for some reason i wont use him i used his brother efz and disappointed every time. have you calves from him are you happy with them

Future Farmer · 20-05-2015 11:02am

limo_100 wrote: »

for some reason i wont use him i used his brother efz and disappointed every time. have you calves from him are you happy with them

Easy calving, 5 Star.... Fairly good calves from what I've seen..

EFZ is only his half brother. TVR & EFZ were half brothers too - very different bulls.

onyerbikepat · 20-05-2015 12:22pm

limo_100 wrote: »

for some reason i wont use him i used his brother efz and disappointed every time. have you calves from him are you happy with them

I was very disapointed with EFZ too. Only used him once though, but still. His figures coming tru on ICBF are bad too.

Future Farmer · 21-05-2015 9:13am

onyerbikepat wrote: »

I was very disapointed with EFZ too. Only used him once though, but still. His figures coming tru on ICBF are bad too.

Hi Pat,

I am not being snotty, maybe I just can't see it or don't know what I am looking for.

Looking at his Index:

He's 5 Star Replacement & 4 Star Terminal - fairly easy calving - looks like his daughters will have calving ability & milk (low reliability). Not great skeletal type fair enough.

The bull is dead but I'm sure reliability will improve on this index.

Could you point out where his Euro star is disappointing?

#EducatingADairyManOnBeef

votuvant · 21-05-2015 10:06am

Future Farmer wrote: »

Hi Pat,

I am not being snotty, maybe I just can't see it or don't know what I am looking for.

Looking at his Index:

He's 5 Star Replacement & 4 Star Terminal - fairly easy calving - looks like his daughters will have calving ability & milk (low reliability). Not great skeletal type fair enough.

The bull is dead but I'm sure reliability will improve on this index.

Could you point out where his Euro star is disappointing?

#EducatingADairyManOnBeef

I'm with Pat on this and if ever there was a case of the figures not really telling the full truth its with EFZ.

I had 8 calves off him last year all with the intention of breeding replacements. 4 bulls and 4 heifers and I'm only keeping 1 for breeding because the rest are all to small in stature. The one I'm keeping is from a very tall Sim cow. Good calves just not tall enough for me to keep as cows. They may grow after year 2 but since we are all supposed to bull them at 15 months that will be to late.

The GWO calves I had of the same age were nearly all a foot taller from same type of cows at weaning. Even the SBU and GJB calves I had off heifers are all a good bit taller.

welton john · 21-05-2015 12:21pm

Future Farmer wrote: »

Hi Pat,

I am not being snotty, maybe I just can't see it or don't know what I am looking for.

Looking at his Index:

He's 5 Star Replacement & 4 Star Terminal - fairly easy calving - looks like his daughters will have calving ability & milk (low reliability). Not great skeletal type fair enough.

The bull is dead but I'm sure reliability will improve on this index.

Could you point out where his Euro star is disappointing?

#EducatingADairyManOnBeef

Sorry ff but you seem completly reliant on euro stars.No doubt they are a good breeding aid buts that all they are. just because a bull is 5 star does not automatically mean quality offspring and vice-versa re 2 and 3 star bulls.There's alot of lads on here breeding excellent stock, i'd be slow to go against their experinces of a bull

onyerbikepat · 21-05-2015 5:19pm

Future Farmer wrote: »

Could you point out where his Euro star is disappointing?

#EducatingADairyManOnBeef

Calves are muscley but not growthy. His figures on ICBf are as follows;
Bottom 9% for Carcase weight
Bottom 9% for Skeletal at 71% rel
Bottom 3% for Height
Bottom 4% for length of back

Basically small butty cattle. And FSZ may be the same way, as said above, but reliability figures are lower.

Limestone Cowboy · 21-05-2015 7:25pm

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Calves are muscley but not growthy. His figures on ICBf are as follows;
Bottom 9% for Carcase weight
Bottom 9% for Skeletal at 71% rel
Bottom 3% for Height
Bottom 4% for length of back

Basically small butty cattle. And FSZ may be the same way, as said above, but reliability figures are lower.

Which begs the question what were the ai company thinking when they were buying him I wonder?

tanko · 21-05-2015 8:07pm

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

Which begs the question what were the ai company thinking when they were buying him I wonder?

Good question, according to the 2013 PG catalogue his first calves were impressive, heavily muscled, correct and classy. He was the No. 1 Limousin bull in irish Ai on terminal index, top 1% on carcase conformation, top 2% on Carcase weight (source icbf Aug 2013).
He had 5 stars across breeds for maternal and terminal.
In August 2013 he had a 5 star rating for carcase weight of 34kgs at 27%.
In April 2015 he has a half star for carcase weight of 17kgs at 85%.
In August 2013 he had a skeletal rating of 114 at 50% reliability
In April 2015 he has a skeletal rating of 94 at 71% reliability.

I don't understand how a Bulls skeletal figure can go down so much over time, did he shrink as he got older.
These figures are from the same icbf that are going to be deciding which Bulls, cows and heifers farmers can keep from now on.

Limestone Cowboy · 21-05-2015 8:24pm

tanko wrote: »

Good question, according to the 2013 PG catalogue his first calves were impressive, heavily muscled, correct and classy. He was the No. 1 Limousin bull in irish Ai on terminal index, top 1% on carcase conformation, top 2% on Carcase weight (source icbf Aug 2013).
He had 5 stars across breeds for maternal and terminal.
In August 2013 he had a 5 star rating for carcase weight of 34kgs at 27%.
In April 2015 he has a half star for carcase weight of 17kgs at 85%.
In August 2013 he had a skeletal rating of 114 at 50% reliability
In April 2015 he has a skeletal rating of 94 at 71% reliability.

I don't understand how a Bulls skeletal figure can go down so much over time, did he shrink as he got older.
These figures are from the same icbf that are going to be deciding which Bulls, cows and heifers farmers can keep from now on.

That's what I was kinda angling towards. I'm not overly impressed with a lot of the ncbc bulls to be honest.

Progressive Genetics AI Bulls for a heifer

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