IT Poll: FF +4 SF -4

Scofflaw

There's an Irish Times poll due out in tomorrow's paper:

Fine Gael 31 -1
Labour 12 +2
Fianna Fáil 21 +4
Sinn Fein 20 -4
Others 16 -1

That's almost diametrically opposed to what one might gather anecdotally. To listen to the media noise, one might expect Labour to have sunk without a trace, followed by Fine Gael, while Sinn Fein roared ahead.

And, yes, I admit that I'm somewhat appalled to see Fianna Fáil regaining support. Appalled, but sadly not surprised - the narrative that our problems were all the work of rotten foreigners was always going to wind up letting the party that oversaw the waste of our boom off the hook. So now those FFers who would rather support Sinn Fein than Fine Gael are trickling back to the fold.

Ah well.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Mr.Micro

Tbh, 4% back to FF, the other republican party. FF= SF, both with dire financial policies. There is little or no shift from the Government parties. So no harm done, for now at least. Just goes to show that some voters never learn and will always support parties that are capable of doing the most damage to the country.

Happyman42

The spin that they were victims of circumstance is working with the former core vote. No big suprise, it was always going to happen. They'll keep regaining.

Pride Fighter

Could lead the way for a FG/FF government next time out.

Kinski

Detest SF, but this is not good news. A drift back towards FF (with no apparent meaningful reform having been undertaken by that party) so early in this govt's cycle suggests they could well be positioned to cast themselves as credible alternative coalition leaders by the time the next election rolls around. So an economic crisis so profound it should have spurred major political reform in the Republic occurs...and yet we may well end up choosing whether we want a continued FG/Lab govt or a new FF/Some smaller party govt at the next election - just like at every other bloody election.

thebman

Well IMO more people are becoming more dissatisfied with government as they are doing the same things as the previous government but trying to pass it off as reform and just p***ing people off as a result.

the groutch

Gerry Adams is the issue most people have with in regards to Sinn Fein, his approval rating dropped 8% since the last poll.
The sooner Pearse Doherty (Mary Lou at a push) is put in charge the better.

raymon

Good news that the population is seeing through the spoof of SF. Long may their demise continue.

But 21% for the party that savagely bankrupted our country is very sad .

Manach

Given the current government out of touch and home tax policies, it was fairly obvious some other party would be picking up this dis-satisfied vote.

Scofflaw

Manach wrote: »

Given the current government out of touch and home tax policies, it was fairly obvious some other party would be picking up this dis-satisfied vote.

Labour +2, Fine Gael -1, FF +4. Basic arithmetic tells you it's not a dissatisfied vote leaking away from the government - the government coalition is up by 1%.

What's visible in this poll seems to be movement amongst those who wouldn't vote for the current government - but their willingness to consider the party that put us in our current position is depressing idiocy. The possibility that they're simply returning to the Fianna Fáil fold after a brief flirtation with Sinn Fein is equally depressing - is 18 months really long enough to permit people to explain away IMF intervention?

cordially,
Scofflaw

golfball37

raymon wrote: »

Good news that the population is seeing through the spoof of SF. Long may their demise continue.

But 21% for the party that savagely bankrupted our country is very sad .

Yeah up 6% from their election result of 18 months ago sounds disastrous for SF all right.:rolleyes:

Happyman42

raymon wrote: »

Good news that the population is seeing through the spoof of SF. Long may their demise continue.

But 21% for the party that savagely bankrupted our country is very sad .

An electorate capable of 'seeing through spoof' is turning to the party that screwed the country to the wall? Remind me not to employ you as an analyst. :rolleyes:

ednwireland

Kinski wrote: »

Detest SF, but this is not good news. A drift back towards FF (with no apparent meaningful reform having been undertaken by that party) so early in this govt's cycle suggests they could well be positioned to cast themselves as credible alternative coalition leaders by the time the next election rolls around. So an economic crisis so profound it should have spurred major political reform in the Republic occurs...and yet we may well end up choosing whether we want a continued FG/Lab govt or a new FF/Some smaller party govt at the next election - just like at every other bloody election.

depressing, just depressing but it does show the lack of credible alternatives (and any that might arise would be full of the same old tricksters and conmen which is how i see all politicians no faith in any of them)

Dannyboy83

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1018/breaking11.html
The survey was undertaken on Monday and Tuesday of this week among a representative sample of 1,000 voters aged 18 and over, in face-to-face interviews at 100 sampling points in all constituencies.

Fianna Fail haven't done anything to maneuver themselves into 2nd place.
Support for FF/SF is generally divided along age/class lines.

These look like typical local distortions.

Sierra Oscar

Cant say I am surprised - the change in reception at the doors has been profound since the summer.

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Could lead the way for a FG/FF government next time out.

FF membership wouldnt be pleased to see that. Its a non runner in my view.

the groutch wrote: »

Gerry Adams is the issue most people have with in regards to Sinn Fein, his approval rating dropped 8% since the last poll.
The sooner Pearse Doherty (Mary Lou at a push) is put in charge the better.

People don't seem to realize just how powerful the leader is within Sinn Féin - removing Adams will be no easy task. First off, any successor would have to convince the membership in the North that Adams needs to go - there is no current SF TD who will find that task easy.

In fact a leadership heave could very easily see a North / South split in SF.

Mr.Micro

If I may be so bold as to add a bit to your post.

Kinski wrote: »

Detest SF, but this is not good news. A drift back towards FF (with no apparent meaningful reform having been undertaken by that party) so early in this govt's cycle suggests they could well be positioned to cast themselves as credible incredible alternative coalition leaders by the time the next election rolls around.

It's sad if FF do get a foothold in a future Government based on its listless opposition, no new policies or reforms, effectively the same old party. It does not bode well for the future of the nation.

mitosis

What was the margin on the survey? +/- 4%?

Sierra Oscar

Mr.Micro wrote: »

If I may be so bold as to add a bit to your post.

It's sad if FF do get a foothold in a future Government based on its listless opposition, no new policies or reforms, effectively the same old party. It does not bode well for the future of the nation.

In fairness, FF is the only opposition entity which is actually consistently putting forward alternative bills for the government to consider. Everyone else is just shouting and roaring.

There have been new policies brought forward also, such as the National Strategy on Youth Unemployment - FF will be launching its budget submission shortly and regional policy conferences are ongoing at the moment which will result in new policies coming to the fore. It takes times, these things cant be rushed and done haphazardly.

mitosis wrote: »

What was the margin on the survey? +/- 4%?

+/- 3%

golfball37

Thats rubbish SO as you well know, whether you agree with SF is your own perogative but to dismiss them as not being constructive opposition is a shameful leap, especially when you use FF as the barometer.

The fiscal responsibility bill was far more than just shouting as was the moneylending bill.

Its about quality not quantity in any case.

poeticseraphim

So FFers would rather have supported SF rather than FG and now would rather support FF again rather than FF.

Who are these people?

FFers are right FFers!

But really what is the profile of this voter?

Pride Fighter

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

FF membership wouldnt be pleased to see that. Its a non runner in my view.

Why is that? They are the exact same policy wise and Labour wont have enough to go into govt with FG in 2016. It'll be FG/FF or FG/SF.

Sierra Oscar

golfball37 wrote: »

Thats rubbish SO as you well know, whether you agree with SF is your own perogative but to dismiss them as not being constructive opposition is a shameful leap, especially when you use FF as the barometer.

I am just going on the facts here - FF have put forward far more actual alternative legislation during this Dáil term so far. That is fact, not rubbish - and there is a sizeable population of the opposition who have nothing constructive to put forward and would rather just play with rhetoric.

Here are some of the FF bills and amendments proposed so far during this Dáil term.

• Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Amendment) Bill 2012
• Broadcasting (Amendment) Bill 2012
• Statute of Limitations (Amendment) (Home Remediation-Pyrite) Bill 2012 [Seanad]
• Assaults on Emergency Workers Bill 2012
• Access to Cancer Treatment Bill 2012 [Seanad]
• Prohibition on use by Children of Sunbeds and Tanning Devices Bill 2012
• Freedom of Information (Amendment) (No.2) Bill 2012
• Valuation (Amendment) Bill 2012
• Protection of Children's Health from Tobacco Smoke Bill 2012 [Seanad]
• Housing Bill 2012
• Motorist Emergency Relief Bill 2012
• Local Government (Household Charge) (Amendment) Bill 2012
• Landlord and Tenant (Business Leases Rent Review) Bill 2012
• Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Bill 2012
• Employment Equality (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012 [Seanad]
• Entrepreneur Visa Bill 2012
• Employment Equality (Amendment) Bill 2012 [Seanad]
• Corporate Manslaughter Bill 2011 [Seanad]
• NAMA and Irish Bank Resolution Corporation Transparency Bill 2011 [Seanad]
• Advertising, Labelling and Presentation of Fast Food at Fast Food Outlets Bill 2011
• Local Authority Public Administration Bill 2011
• Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland (Amendment) Bill 2011
• Debt Settlement And Mortgage Resolution Office Bill 2011
• Regulation of Debt Management Advisors Bill 2011
• Industrial Relations (Amendment) Bill 2011
• Family Home Bill 2011
• Statistics (Heritage Amendment) Bill 2011 [Seanad]
• Twenty-Ninth Amendment of the Constitution (No.3) Bill 2011
• Mobile Phone Radiation Warning Bill 2011 [Seanad]
• An Bille um Chlárú Uachtanna, 2011 [Seanad]
• Protection of Children's Health from Tobacco Smoke Bill 2012 [Seanad]
• Housing Bill 2012
• Local Government (Household Charge) (Amendment) Bill 2012
• Landlord and Tenant (Business Leases Rent Review) Bill 2012
• Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Bill 2012
• Entrepreneur Visa Bill 2012
• Health (Professional Home Care) Bill 2012
• Criminal Justice (Aggravated False Imprisonment) Bill 2012

Lets compare that to the SF equivalent:

• Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2012
• Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (Amendment) Bill 2012
• Protection of Employees (Amendment) Bill 2012
• Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest (Reviews of Commercial Rents) Bill 2012
• Local Government (Household Charge) (Repeal) Bill 2012
• Local Government (Superannuation) (Consolidation) Scheme 1998 (Amendment) Bill 2012
• Freedom of Information (Amendment) Bill 2012
• Reduction in Pay and Allowances of Government and Oireachtas Members Bill 2011
• Local Government (Superannuation) (Consolidation) Scheme 1998 (Amendment) Bill 2012

The figures speak for themselves - and they show who is working hardest in putting forward constructive proposals and providing a real opposition.

RandomName2

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The figures speak for themselves - and they show who is working hardest in putting forward constructive proposals and providing a real opposition.

I was about to be devil's advocate and say that Sinn Fein is still minuscule compared to FF in the Dail... but that isn't really the case today (I think they are numerically equivalent since Brian Lenihan's death iirc).

What I always liked about FF, what I still like about FF to a large extent was their laissez-faire approach to most things. It was predominantly their MO - what was unforgivable was the way they actually interferred to help propagate the housing bubble. Their attempts to railroad legislation such as the European Constitutional amendments don't sit too well with me either. However, as far as I can see, unless Labour becomes realistic as a majority partner in a coalition, FF is the only credible alternative to a FG led government atm.

Chucky the tree

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Why is that? They are the exact same policy wise and Labour wont have enough to go into govt with FG in 2016. It'll be FG/FF or FG/SF.

To arrogant would be my guess. Just can't see FF happily being the junior party in a FG lead Government.

Kinski

Useful to remember who it is that actually leads FF these days, and how he was very much integral to the Bertie era. Here's a neat exchange he had with an interviewer on TV3:

Sinead Desmond (presenter): “You’re representing a new Fianna Fail, but then I was thinking about two things from your past. One of them being a – totally legitimate – donation by [Cork property developer] Owen O’Callaghan that found its way into your wife’s Dublin bank account. That seemed strange to me and had a sniff of the old Fianna Fail. And the second thing, in the Mahon Tribunal you were asked if you ever brought Owen O’Callaghan to meet Bertie Ahern and you said no that you would have remembered if such a thing happened. And then you were shown Mr Ahern’s ministerial diary which seemed to recollect a meeting between yourself, Bertie Ahern and Owen O’Callaghan but you said you couldn’t recall it. I’ll give you a chance to explain but both of those incidents smell of the old Fianna Fail that put ourselves in the position we find ourselves in.”

Micheál Martin: “I think that’s very unfair because I gave a very comprehensive account to the Tribunal on this…You’ve picked out two things…I gave a very comprehensive account and documentary evidence to the effect in terms of that donation that the money was spent on the party’s electoral operation in that local election. We showed the receipts – we didn’t have the full receipts, but we showed the receipts also the money left very quickly in the month around the General Election itself so every political party got donations at that time and they didn’t have to declare them.

Desmond: “But it ended up in your wife’s bank account?”

Martin: “My wife and I worked together in terms of the politics at the time. There’s nothing strange about that. We both lived in Dublin for that period and so there was nothing in that. When I say I lived in Dublin I was up here during the week in the Dail. Mary worked in Dublin for that year so there’s nothing wrong with that at all and no one has ever suggested any impropriety or any wrongdoing in terms of that.”

Desmond: “Neither was I.”

Martin: “Yeah (laughs) but when it’s taken out like that in full isolation like that it creates an innuendo and it creates an issue when there was none and in fact all I was ever was asked and every TD was asked at the time was for a list of donations that they received from that gentleman (O’Callaghan). And I gave them full comprehensive information with receipts which I even didn’t have to have at the time but I did and presented what I had at that time and there’s never been a suggestion by anyone that there anything wrong or any impropriety in relation to that”

Desmond: “What about the meeting mentioned in The Mahon Tribunal.”

Martin: “I never had a meeting with Bertie and Owen O’Callaghan.”

Desmond: “It’s all there recorded in his diary.”

Martin: “But it wasn’t you see even the tribunal itself didn’t seem to be going into (pause) I don’t want to be going into this because it’s based on the report (pause) didn’t seem to be too clear about it (pause) never any indication in advance that that was going to be raised (pause) I certainly didn’t…(trails off)”

FF are clearly a different beast altogether these days.

raymon

RandomName2 wrote: »

FF is the only credible alternative to a FG led government atm.

FF are not credible in any way.

Any time they talk about health I am reminded that Michael Martin created the HSE

Any time they talk about honesty I think of Willie telling lies under oath

Any time they talk about the economy I think of them savagely bankrupting our country.

And any time I hear Michael Martin talk I remember the developers money he lodged to his wife's bank account.

StillWaters

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Why is that? They are the exact same policy wise and Labour wont have enough to go into govt with FG in 2016. It'll be FG/FF or FG/SF.

I really cannot see a FG/SF government. I don't think the FGers would countenance it, they might, might just swallow a FF coalition if Martin is gone.

I think it would be a mistake for FG though. FF is still rotten at the bottom.

nuac

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Cant say I am surprised - the change in reception at the doors has been profound since the summer.



FF membership wouldnt be pleased to see that. Its a non runner in my view.



People don't seem to realize just how powerful the leader is within Sinn Féin - removing Adams will be no easy task. First off, any successor would have to convince the membership in the North that Adams needs to go - there is no current SF TD who will find that task easy.

In fact a leadership heave could very easily see a North / South split in SF.

SF do not do leadership heaves. I think "democratic centralism" is the term. From their involvement with PIRA their orders come from the top down

blinding

Its time for Gerry Adams to step down to help the future prospects of Sinn Fein.

Why is he hanging on if he really has the best interests of Sinn Fein at heart ?

Mr.Micro

blinding wrote: »

Its time for Gerry Adams to step down to help the future prospects of Sinn Fein.

Why is he hanging on if he really has the best interests of Sinn Fein at heart ?

Who is going to tell him?

Sierra Oscar

blinding wrote: »

Its time for Gerry Adams to step down to help the future prospects of Sinn Fein.

Why is he hanging on if he really has the best interests of Sinn Fein at heart ?

Adams is not going anywhere before 2016 - by that time SF's opportunity will have passed.

jank

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

FF membership wouldnt be pleased to see that. Its a non runner in my view.

This is the future and to be honest it is what is probably best for the country in the long run. FF have always tried to have it both ways in terms of looking left or right. So either drop the populist clap trap and go right or join up with labour if you want to go left.

In other words at some stage FF and FG will HAVE to be in government together to get things done especially in reforming the public sector. People need a clear choice.

jank

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

In fairness, FF is the only opposition entity which is actually consistently putting forward alternative bills for the government to consider. Everyone else is just shouting and roaring.

There have been new policies brought forward also, such as the National Strategy on Youth Unemployment - FF will be launching its budget submission shortly and regional policy conferences are ongoing at the moment which will result in new policies coming to the fore. It takes times, these things cant be rushed and done haphazardly.

Again, all useless and worthless. FF had the chance to really take a look at themselves and change tact but it seems they are just going into the long grass to wait it out for a few years hoping that they will be back in power in the not too distant future. If they were serious about it then they would have gotten rid of martin and EVERY one else who was a cabinet minister.

The days of FF getting 40% of the vote is over forever. Id say they will struggle to reach 30% no matter what happens to FG or labour, so in affect they will be a high teens to mid 20% party for the next 10 years or so with SF there or thereabouts too.

So tell me this, who would FF go into government with? Labour? SF?

hallelujajordan

jank wrote: »

Again, all useless and worthless. FF had the chance to really take a look at themselves and change tact but it seems they are just going into the long grass to wait it out for a few years hoping that they will be back in power in the not too distant future. If they were serious about it then they would have gotten rid of martin and EVERY one else who was a cabinet minister.

The days of FF getting 40% of the vote is over forever. Id say they will struggle to reach 30% no matter what happens to FG or labour, so in affect they will be a high teens to mid 20% party for the next 10 years or so with SF there or thereabouts too.

So tell me this, who would FF go into government with? Labour? SF?

I think their activity in DE (as highlighted by SO) demonstrates that they are contributing more than any other opposition in the Dail . . Hardly something you can characterise as "waiting in the long grass" ??

For parliament to operate effectively we need strong government AND strong opposition and what this poll tells me is that after a brief flirtation the Irish electorate are beginning to see that a combination of Sinn Fein and a ragbag of useless Independents does not make for strong opposition. And although many on here have called for and may be expecting some new party to emerge, it is clear at this stage that is not going to happen. People will continue to turn back to Fianna Fáil because they know that FF are the only party that can offer real opposition to the current government.

On the issue of FF/FG I would love to see such a coalition (or more radically, a merge of the two). I have said for a long time that this country needs a clear choice between left and right. Throwing left and right into coalition does not make for effective, sustainable government and it is clear that the current government has one term at best, after which Labour will have to sack their leader and reinvent themselves.

Mr.Micro

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I think their activity in DE (as highlighted by SO) demonstrates that they are contributing more than any other opposition in the Dail . . Hardly something you can characterise as "waiting in the long grass" ??

People will continue to turn back to Fianna Fáil because they know that FF are the only party that can offer real opposition to the current government.

People are never going to take Martin and O'Dea seriously. Just because they get up as one of the opposition parties in the Dail to speak, does not make them a real or effective opposition. Its easy to oppose everything......how can you go wrong. When it came to decision making and policy in the last Government, they were a disaster, tried and proven.

Sierra Oscar

Mr.Micro wrote: »

People are never going to take Martin and O'Dea seriously. Just because they get up as one of the opposition parties in the Dail to speak, does not make them a real or effective opposition. Its easy to oppose everything......how can you go wrong. When it came to decision making and policy in the last Government, they were a disaster, tried and proven.

Well the opinion polls suggest that people are in fact beginning to take FF seriously. It is early days yet I agree, but there does seem to be a trend appearing in the polls and there is a marked difference in the reception at the doorsteps - I have been with Martin on the doorsteps and have seen it for myself.

I would agree with you that FF need some new and energetic TD's - but don't worry, you will see a lot of new FF TD's elected next time around. You can already see this strategy at work with the amount of new Local Area Representatives appointed throughout the country to prepare the party for the 2014 elections. The big worry following the election was that the party apparatus would disappear completely, but those fears have been swept aside entirely now as it became evident that the underlying organisation is still strong.

To be honest I don't think I have come across any FF member who thinks that the recovery of the party can be done within one Dáil term. Everyone recognises how difficult the task of rebuilding is, but people are up for the challenge.

Mr.Micro

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Anyway, didn't you predict that FF would be around 8% now?

I do not recall that SO. I think perhaps you may be mixing me up with another poster.

Regardless of opinion polls and doorstop soundings being positive, would the voter actually vote for FF? Even more would they vote with Martin as the leader? His pedigree as a Minister was not good.

Sierra Oscar

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I do not recall that SO. I think perhaps you may be mixing me up with another poster.

Regardless of opinion polls and doorstop soundings being positive, would the voter actually vote for FF? Even more would they vote with Martin as the leader? His pedigree as a Minister was not good.

Indeed apologies, I got mixed up. It was raymon who kept predicting that FF would be around 8% now.

I wont try and argue that everyone is infatuated with FF when we knock on doors, the situation is far from that! The difference is that during the general election people simply did not want to listen to FF - now however they are willing to listen. For the most part, the anger which was present at the doors during the election has subsided considerably. People are still far from being happy with FF, but they are willing to listen to what we have got to say and hear of our plans for the future.

The biggest challenge for FF, now that people are willing to consider voting for the party, is to actually come up strong policies which people see as being realistic and are willing to vote for. Unfortunately creating policy takes time and cannot be rushed, but that process is underway nonetheless. I am confident that FF's budget submission in November will be strong and robust.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Indeed apologies, I got mixed up. It was raymon who kept predicting that FF would be around 8% now.

That was me alright who predicted a steeper decline for FF.

It is very sad to see that this has not happened yet.

8% would be a good number .

Death and Taxes

the groutch wrote: »

Gerry Adams is the issue most people have with in regards to Sinn Fein, his approval rating dropped 8% since the last poll.
The sooner Pearse Doherty (Mary Lou at a push) is put in charge the better.

Wouldn't make much of a difference, most peple who actually bother to vote would never vote for SF, thankfully.

maccored

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Wouldn't make much of a difference, most peple who actually bother to vote would never vote for SF, thankfully.

Is this post from 10 years ago? It would have made sense then, but it doesnt now.

jank

hallelujajordan wrote: »

emerge, it is clear at this stage that is not going to happen. People will continue to turn back to Fianna Fáil because they know that FF are the only party that can offer real opposition to the current government.

.

Opposition? Are you joking? I still have no idea what FF are for. At least I know what the ULA and SF stand for but with FF you cant trust them in their current setup.

thebman

FF on today about the government failing to get a deal on legacy debt issue being a tragedy for Ireland after they were the ones that signed that original deal that has us where we are!!

Hypocrisy and I noticed they sent out one of the younger fellas to say that not Michael Martin. Fooling nobody.

Sierra Oscar

thebman wrote: »

FF on today about the government failing to get a deal on legacy debt issue being a tragedy for Ireland after they were the ones that signed that original deal that has us where we are!!

Hypocrisy and I noticed they sent out one of the younger fellas to say that not Michael Martin. Fooling nobody.

Blaming FF is wearing a little thin with everyone at this stage. The government has failed to get a deal on the debt write down, despite plenty of bluster over the last twelve months. You cannot point the finger at FF or any other opposition party for that failure.

raymon

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Blaming FF is wearing a little thin with everyone at this stage. The government has failed to get a deal on the debt write down, despite plenty of bluster over the last twelve months. You cannot point the finger at FF or any other opposition party for that failure.

The drunk that puked on the carpet is now beating the cleaning staff , disgusting stuff.

Scofflaw

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Blaming FF is wearing a little thin with everyone at this stage. The government has failed to get a deal on the debt write down, despite plenty of bluster over the last twelve months. You cannot point the finger at FF or any other opposition party for that failure.

So Fianna Fáil didn't in any sense set the conditions under which the current Irish government has had to negotiate? Pull the other one.

cordially,
Scofflaw

thebman

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Blaming FF is wearing a little thin with everyone at this stage. The government has failed to get a deal on the debt write down, despite plenty of bluster over the last twelve months. You cannot point the finger at FF or any other opposition party for that failure.

Only wearing thin with FF supporters.

The government has to stand on its own actions, FF can't just ignore its past actions to suit its opposition agenda.

Scofflaw

thebman wrote: »

Only wearing thin with FF supporters.

The government has to stand on its own actions, FF can't just ignore its past actions to suit its opposition agenda.

The first comment seems, indeed, to be the message of this poll shift. As such, the second is probably not true, alas.

cordially,
Scofflaw

hallelujajordan

Scofflaw wrote: »

So Fianna Fáil didn't in any sense set the conditions under which the current Irish government has had to negotiate? Pull the other one.

cordially,
Scofflaw

The role the previous government played in setting the conditions under which the current government have to operate and negotiate is largely irrelevant at this point.

TODAY, we the electorate are paying the government to do a job and we are paying the opposition to either oppose or support them depending on their point of view. Whether you like it or not, we returned 20 FF TDs to the Dail in February of last year and we asked them to do a job . . Would you really like to see FF give the government a free pass because of the role they played in creating the situation ?

KyussBishop

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Blaming FF is wearing a little thin with everyone at this stage. The government has failed to get a deal on the debt write down, despite plenty of bluster over the last twelve months. You cannot point the finger at FF or any other opposition party for that failure.

Hmm...some humility is in order for FF, in properly acknowledging their catastrophic role in creating that debt, and in acknowledging that we (as a country, no matter what party is in power) have very little sovereign control over getting that debt written down, since we are now at the beck and call of the bigger EU states that we have ceded control to.

No matter how valid the criticisms FF may have against the current government may be, every criticism will be inherently tainted with the hypocrisy of FF creating the enormous mess we're in, and then complaining about the manner with which others clean it up for them.

A party being 'in opposition' is bad enough (with how that also inherently tinges arguments with hypocrisy), but taking it to such a level that is blind to the (very recent) past, not being conscious of or acknowledging its own faults, is far worse.

Mr.Micro

hallelujajordan wrote: »

The role the previous government played in setting the conditions under which the current government have to operate and negotiate is largely irrelevant at this point.

Now that is absolute rubbish. The conditions and terms set and agreed by the FF led government were near impossible. It is a credit to the current government that it has managed to make some negotiation and flexibility to the conditions. As I posted in earlier posts, it is easy to oppose but not so easy to come up with credible solutions ie. FF. The FF party is gone from government but the nightmare conditions it agreed to are still relevant.