Waterford Station Flooded

foggy_lad

Bus transfers between Waterford and Kilkenny, and Waterford and Tipperary.

Expect delays!

Jamie2k9

Expect delays!

Services are not being affected by bus transfers. Services arriving on time or ahead of schedule as always.

foggy_lad

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Services are not being affected by bus transfers. Services arriving on time or ahead of schedule as always.

So buses operating in severe rain are just as fast or faster than the train. Why not scrap the railways altogether?

There are usually delays when bus transfers take place at short notice like today.

Jamie2k9

So buses operating in severe rain are just as fast or faster than the train. Why not scrap the railways altogether?

There are usually delays when bus transfers take place at short notice like today.

I'm just after getting off the 11.00 from Waterford and it arrived in Dublin at 13.20, 5 mins early. We departed Kilkenny 5 mins late at 11.48. I also know the 07.40 this morning was on time. In August when the fire happened all services were on time in Dublin.

Apart from Waterford West-Muillnvat which is 80mph the rest of the line to Thomastonw is 55-70mph very bad bends etc. Its only from Thomastown-Kildare that its a constent 80 apart from junction at Kilkenny. The current timetabled journey time is 38-46 minutes when services that don't stop at Ballyhale can run in 35 and ones that should only take around 40.

This video from RTE shows it after going down a lot. Lets hop the tide tonigh won't flood it again.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1017/flooding-weather-warning.html#video

road_high

I thought the bus transfer would have had to divert to Thomastown thus adding way more time to the journey as you'd have to come off the M9? Mustn't be the case so?

Jamie2k9

I thought the bus transfer would have had to divert to Thomastown thus adding way more time to the journey as you'd have to come off the M9? Mustn't be the case so?

Passengers at Thomastown.... thats not very common! Guessing a mini bus would be used or ticket checker at the station would call the bus driver if anyone turns up.

The morning trains ran empty from Waterford so they would of served Thomastwon when there would be a few passengers boarding.

Mr Simpson

This just highlights how inefficient IR really are. To do the same route, with the same passengers, the bus was faster than the train. I'd also bet it was cheaper to run. Surely this is a clear example of a route that should be scrapped and replaced by an express bus service (if it saves money).

Jamie2k9

This just highlights how inefficient IR really are. To do the same route, with the same passengers, the bus was faster than the train. I'd also bet it was cheaper to run. Surely this is a clear example of a route that should be scrapped and replaced by an express bus service (if it saves money).

If that the case the Dublin-Galway should be scrapped as thats the most inefficient route but the whole network needs to be closed if thats the way you look at it....just also include the 5 minute turnaround in Kilkenny which helps the bus get there on time. A modest investment and speeds could be improved a lot.

Mr Simpson

Lets face it though, investments no matter how modest aren't really happening at the moment. If a service isn't efficient or cost effective it should be either made more cost effective (if it can be afforded) or scrapped and replaced. This is how IR have got themselves into the financial black hole they are now in.

Don't get me wrong, I love trains, and I'd love to see improvements in service. But you can't keep throwing money at a problem to delay the inevitable.

Mr Simpson

Personally if we are to keep trains in Ireland. I'd like to see certain, high traffic routes prioritised. Dublin-Cork being one, A few commuter services being others.

road_high

The Wateford line is quite heavily trafficed. Especially between KK, Carlow and Dublin as it beats the drive time (most of the time) into the city.
There's no way a bus transfer between Kilkenny and Dublin stopping at all the stops in Carlow and Kildare en route would beat the train time of 1 and a half hours.

road_high

mmcn90 wrote: »

Lets face it though, investments no matter how modest aren't really happening at the moment. If a service isn't efficient or cost effective it should be either made more cost effective (if it can be afforded) or scrapped and replaced. This is how IR have got themselves into the financial black hole they are now in.

Don't get me wrong, I love trains, and I'd love to see improvements in service. But you can't keep throwing money at a problem to delay the inevitable.

I totally agree. The new motorways have hammered some of the journey times. Galway most especially.

end of the road

mmcn90 wrote: »

This just highlights how inefficient IR really are. To do the same route, with the same passengers, the bus was faster than the train. I'd also bet it was cheaper to run.
and? you'd be better off going by car if you want something thats (cheep to run) a bus with a jax traveling at 80 mph is to slow, rail has potential to offer faster speeds then the motor way could ever offer, the will is and wasn't there to invest and to make sure irish rail spent what it got on such investment.

mmcn90 wrote: »

Surely this is a clear example of a route that should be scrapped and replaced by an express bus service (if it saves money).

oh no, not another scrap the railway type. a rickity express bus traveling at 80 mph might be fine for some but for me and others, may as well get a friend to give me a lift if the railway went, and no it wouldn't save money, its irish rail and the governments conflict of interest/roads bias thats the problem not the railway, don't fall in to the trap of being deluded that closures of railways will save money as it didn't and won't, it will be wasted somewhere else.

end of the road

mmcn90 wrote: »

If a service isn't efficient or cost effective it should be either made more cost effective (if it can be afforded) or scrapped and replaced.

was tried in the 60s and 70s and it failed, may as well get rid of the whole railway as its inefficient and not cost effective, all though if 80 mph express busses are your thing fine, but for me its a step backwards.

mmcn90 wrote: »

This is how IR have got themselves into the financial black hole they are now in.

no it isn't, ploding along like nothing is happening is what did that, not caring about their customers, not attracting people to the railways, hiking up prices instead of lowering them to get bums on seats, and now cutting services and operating short trains at peak times on the dart will do them no favours.

mmcn90 wrote: »

you can't keep throwing money at a problem to delay the inevitable.

so get rid of irish rail or bring in somebody who actually has a clue about running a railway, because closing it will be a very bad mistake.

end of the road

mmcn90 wrote: »

Personally if we are to keep trains in Ireland. I'd like to see certain, high traffic routes prioritised. Dublin-Cork being one, A few commuter services being others.

well most routes would be high traffic if the company in charge of running the railway ran it properly.

http://www.thejournal.ie/waterford-railway-station-flooded-638505-Oct2012/?utm_source=twitter_self

Hungerford

mmcn90 wrote: »

This is how IR have got themselves into the financial black hole they are now in.

Not really. I think any service would struggle to be cost effective on long journeys in a state where the government gives out free travel passes like sweeties.

In addition, Iarnrod Éireann is a spectacularly badly managed organisation which lacks any strategic focus bar maintaining its own existence.

This is an organisation which has a huge surplus of rolling stock - which isn't even remotely life-expired - rotting in yards throughout the country because of its scatological approach to fleet procurement.

Hilly Bill

foggy_lad wrote: »

So buses operating in severe rain are just as fast or faster than the train. Why not scrap the railways altogether?

There are usually delays when bus transfers take place at short notice like today.

If they scrapped the railway then you would be on here complaining that you couldnt go all over the country as freely as you are selling your bits and bobs and might even have to start paying for a ticket.

In all honesty Foggy, would you drive a bus or a car through that flood not knowing if the road was in one piece underneath it?

Why talk about delays when you have been told that the replacement buses was on time. Have you forgot that during the heavy snow when cars and buses were at a standstill , the trains were operating? You werent on here then saying why not scrapped the buses altogether when the trains was faster and operating. Im sorry to say Foggy but you will come up wth any old thing just to have a pop at Irish Rail .

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

and? you'd be better off going by car if you want something that's (cheep to run) a bus with a jax traveling at 80 mph is to slow, rail has potential to offer faster speeds then the motor way could ever offer, the will is and wasn't there to invest and to make sure Irish rail spent what it got on such investment.


oh no, not another scrap the railway type. a rickety express bus traveling at 80 mph might be fine for some but for me and others, may as well get a friend to give me a lift if the railway went, and no it wouldn't save money, its Irish rail and the governments conflict of interest/roads bias that's the problem not the railway, don't fall in to the trap of being deluded that closures of railways will save money as it didn't and won't, it will be wasted somewhere else.

Modern coaches when properly maintained by private companies(Bus Éireann don't have a clue about coach interior maintenance) are comfortable and travel at 100kph on motorways and dual carriageways.

Do you see yourself and your friends as being more deserving of extra comfort or special treatment? do you usually travel in 1st class?

end of the road wrote: »

was tried in the 60s and 70s and it failed, may as well get rid of the whole railway as its inefficient and not cost effective, all though if 80 mph express buses are your thing fine, but for me its a step backwards.

Commuter lines are profitable but most serve other towns which are loss makers so the Waterford train makes money out as far as Carlow but from Carlow to Waterford it hemorrhages cash. The track requires too much maintenance and checking of culverts viaducts bridges etc and slows the journeys down due to the single track sections.

no it isn't, plodding along like nothing is happening is what did that, not caring about their customers, not attracting people to the railways, hiking up prices instead of lowering them to get bums on seats, and now cutting services and operating short trains at peak times on the dart will do them no favours.

The horse has well and truely bolted so no point even thinking about closing the stable door! the best we can hope for now is retention of the commuter routes which require much less in the line of safert checks etc and less manpower overall.

so get rid of Irish rail or bring in somebody who actually has a clue about running a railway, because closing it will be a very bad mistake.

Don't close it but do cut away the dead wood and rot!

disband CIE and shut all mainlines except Cork and Westport. commuter services only as far as Wexford, Carlow, Drogheda, Mullingar/Longford and Athlone. keep the connection to Limerick from LJ but disconnect the Western Rail Corridor as well as Cork-Tralee and all other lines and sets of points sidings etc which slow down trains and cause problems to the railway.

end of the road wrote: »

well most routes would be high traffic if the company in charge of running the railway ran it properly.

Maybe they would be high traffic if the towns and villages the railway serves had hundreds of thousands of inhabitants but The truth about the mainline rail network in Ireland is that it is never going to serve areas which will provide enough passengers to make any line profitable!

foggy_lad

Hungerford wrote: »

Not really. I think any service would struggle to be cost effective on long journeys in a state where the government gives out free travel passes like sweeties.

In addition, Iarnrod Éireann is a spectacularly badly managed organisation which lacks any strategic focus bar maintaining its own existence.

This is an organisation which has a huge surplus of rolling stock - which isn't even remotely life-expired - rotting in yards throughout the country because of its scatological approach to fleet procurement.

Do you honestly think those with free travel would get the train if they had to pay for it?

Take all the free passes off the train and remove all subsidy from Irish Rail and it will be shut down within months!

The Free travel pass subvention is essential to Irish Rail.

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

Modern coaches when properly maintained by private companies are comfortable and travel at 100kph on motorways and dual carriageways.

not from my experience, 100 kph is still slow, will never be as comfortable as the train.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Do you see yourself and your friends as being more deserving of extra comfort or special treatment? do you usually travel in 1st class?
yes, laurd end of the road expects to be treated as the laurd that he is, the great 15th earl of wexford.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Commuter lines are profitable but most serve other towns which are loss makers so the Waterford train makes money out as far as Carlow but from Carlow to Waterford it hemorrhages cash. The track requires too much maintenance and checking of culverts viaducts bridges etc and slows the journeys down due to the single track sections.

same thing on most railways around the world, i expect the maintenance isn't as much or costs as much as the equivalent motor way does, its not to much at all to check all those things. and i don't buy that it hemorrhages cash for 1 second. it might be a small loss maker but cut all the loss making away and eventually you will have nothing. none of this is an excuse to close them.

foggy_lad wrote: »

The horse has well and truely bolted so no point even thinking about closing the stable door!

bring the lot up to a speed faster then the motor way with reasonable fires and they will come back. only allow busses to feed to and from the railway.

foggy_lad wrote: »

the best we can hope for now is retention of the commuter routes which require much less in the line of safert checks etc and less manpower overall.

no, if we go down the route of mass closures we may as well shut and lift the lot, can't see any government allowing such a thing to happen, a closure here and there maybe but not mass ones.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Don't close it but do cut away the dead wood and rot!

apart from the WRC all the dead wood and rott closed in the 60s and 70s. anything that either closed recently or will close is because of bad management and running by IE.

foggy_lad wrote: »

disband CIE

agree.

foggy_lad wrote: »

shut all mainlines except Cork and Westport. commuter services only as far as Wexford, Carlow, Drogheda, Mullingar/Longford and Athlone. keep the connection to Limerick from LJ but disconnect the Western Rail Corridor as well as Cork-Tralee and all other lines and sets of points sidings etc which slow down trains and cause problems to the railway.

why would we shut all those main lines and disconnect sidings that are being used? it wouldn't achieve anything, they have good usage and don't cause any problems to the railway.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Maybe they would be high traffic if the towns and villages the railway serves had hundreds of thousands of inhabitants but The truth about the mainline rail network in Ireland is that it is never going to serve areas which will provide enough passengers to make any line profitable!

its not supposed to be profitable, its a public service, and a vital one to, passenger numbers are doing okay over all, dispite IE'S lack of effort

Noel Dempseys Den

end of the road wrote: »

not from my experience, 100 kph is still slow, will never be as comfortable as the train.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Do you see yourself and your friends as being more deserving of extra comfort or special treatment? do you usually travel in 1st class?
yes, laurd end of the road expects to be treated as the laurd that he is, the great 15th earl of wexford.

same thing on most railways around the world, i expect the maintenance isn't as much or costs as much as the equivalent motor way does, its not to much at all to check all those things. and i don't buy that it hemorrhages cash for 1 second. it might be a small loss maker but cut all the loss making away and eventually you will have nothing. none of this is an excuse to close them.

bring the lot up to a speed faster then the motor way with reasonable fires and they will come back. only allow busses to feed to and from the railway.

no, if we go down the route of mass closures we may as well shut and lift the lot, can't see any government allowing such a thing to happen, a closure here and there maybe but not mass ones.

apart from the WRC all the dead wood and rott closed in the 60s and 70s. anything that either closed recently or will close is because of bad management and running by IE.

agree.


why would we shut all those main lines and disconnect sidings that are being used? it wouldn't achieve anything, they have good usage and don't cause any problems to the railway.


its not supposed to be profitable, its a public service, and a vital one to, passenger numbers are doing okay over all, dispite IE'S lack of effort

All that would happen if the railways were closed would be a few spotty wannabe Mick O'Learys in UCD would come in their pants out of excitement, with no advantage whatsover for this country, except turning the screw on the quality of life here the wrong way

dowlingm

I think it's fair to say the bus might not have been as punctual were it to have been on the old N9 - which at least would have had a minimum one lane per direction the whole way - no stopping at traffic lights to use a single lane once opposing traffic passed.

CIE

foggy_lad wrote: »

So buses operating in severe rain are just as fast or faster than the train. Why not scrap the railways altogether?

Sure, and totally balkanise Ireland and make it the most backwards country in the west of Europe. We shouldn't dare to prod the government to give up their draconian state control of the railways to make it easier for the private sector to run the network or parts of it and certainly not to invest in its infrastructure to improve it to at least standards matching the very late 20th century, oh no.

Never mind modern flood controls like other countries have. Why is the Suir through Waterford backwards in that respect?

parsi

foggy_lad wrote: »

Do you honestly think those with free travel would get the train if they had to pay for it?

Take all the free passes off the train and remove all subsidy from Irish Rail and it will be shut down within months!

The Free travel pass subvention is essential to Irish Rail.

I agree with you but would go further - take all the free passes off the train and bus.

Judgement Day

parsi wrote: »

I agree with you but would go further - take all the free passes off the train and bus.

Des - would you ever lay-off us OAPs - it won't be that long before you're eligible for the bus pass too. Just because the West Clare is gone...:D

parsi

Judgement Day wrote: »

Des - would you ever lay-off us OAPs - it won't be that long before you're eligible for the bus pass too. Just because the West Clare is gone...:D

I'm more saddened that the Cork, Blackrock and Passage is gone David

I'm sure Foggy will amend his call for the removal of all free travel to exclude OAPs.