Clare county council inspecting rental properties

bananaskin

hey
Clare county council have been on to me three times regarding Property Tax due on a rental property i have.
Today they sent me a letter stating that they are inspecting rental properties as required by legislation.
They referenced some Housing acts dating from from 1992.
Also they want me to contact them so that set a time and date so they can perform their inspection.
I have had the apartment for five years and this is the first time they have ever contacted me regarding these housing acts.
I am assuming this is related to my non-payment of the property tax which i strongly disagree to on the principle that the money will never be put into good use but squandered on inefficiencies and repayment of bank dedt.
Also, who pays for these inspections to be carried out?
If anyone else has experience of this I would be curious to know the final outcome.
Also if i paid the tax, would they call of their housing inspectors?

StillWaters

I don't know, but I am fully tax compliant on my properties and have never got such a letter. Does the letter reference your non payment of the household charge?

periodictable

bananaskin wrote: »

hey
Clare county council have been on to me three times regarding Property Tax due on a rental property i have.
Today they sent me a letter stating that they are inspecting rental properties as required by legislation.
They referenced some Housing acts dating from from 1992.
Also they want me to contact them so that set a time and date so they can perform their inspection.
I have had the apartment for five years and this is the first time they have ever contacted me regarding these housing acts.
I am assuming this is related to my non-payment of the property tax which i strongly disagree to on the principle that the money will never be put into good use but squandered on inefficiencies and repayment of bank dedt.
Also, who pays for these inspections to be carried out?
If anyone else has experience of this I would be curious to know the final outcome.
Also if i paid the tax, would they call of their housing inspectors?

Whether or not you agree with the household charge, I think that it's just a matter of time before local authorities who target those who are non-compliant will be forced to beat a hasty retreat because inspection based on such grounds is most likely discriminatory.

bananaskin

StillWaters wrote: »

I don't know, but I am fully tax compliant on my properties and have never got such a letter. Does the letter reference your non payment of the household charge?

Hey
Fully tax compliant as well but they have sent me three letters regarding household charge so suppose they are flexing their muscles!!

StillWaters

bananaskin wrote: »

Hey
Fully tax compliant as well but they have sent me three letters regarding household charge so suppose they are flexing their muscles!!

In fairness, if you haven't paid the household charge you are not fully tax compliant.

bananaskin

StillWaters wrote: »

In fairness, if you haven't paid the household charge you are not fully tax compliant.

That's is true but if you can convince me that the charge is fair and that the revenue collected will be allocated accordingly then I may change my stance.
As far as I can see most of the 100 euro charge will probably be spent on paying the wages of the civil servants who had to work on the Saturday of the deadline weekend . But that's beside the point.
I probably will pay it but I am surprised by the county councils methods. The apartment is new so I can't see point of sending inspectors around. They are using scare tactics to try and get people to cough. Similar to the student grant stunt they tried a few weeks ago.

periodictable

Have to agree with you-the Irish are great at screwing the Irish over.

athtrasna

Councils are ultimately responsible for enforcing the requirements that rented properties meet basic housing standards as detailed in a number of pieces of legislation in the past 20 years. Inspections are increasing with ventilation and insulation being top of their lists.

As a landlord you are obliged to pay the €200 NPPR charge to the council, as a houseowner you are also obliged to pay the €100 (+ late payment charges) Household Charge to the council. These are both legal obligations and not opt-outable whether or not you agree with them. I would imagine that councils are prioritising inspection of non paying properties, a bit like delaying/rejecting grant applications from non payers. Might not seem fair to you but what about all of us who actually paid because it's the law?

miss no stars

Pay your tax like you're supposed to. Stop whinging about "oh it's not fair". Tax never feels fair. Deal with it.

bananaskin

athtrasna wrote: »

Councils are ultimately responsible for enforcing the requirements that rented properties meet basic housing standards as detailed in a number of pieces of legislation in the past 20 years. Inspections are increasing with ventilation and insulation being top of their lists.

As a landlord you are obliged to pay the €200 NPPR charge to the council, as a houseowner you are also obliged to pay the €100 (+ late payment charges) Household Charge to the council. These are both legal obligations and not opt-outable whether or not you agree with them. I would imagine that councils are prioritising inspection of non paying properties, a bit like delaying/rejecting grant applications from non payers. Might not seem fair to you but what about all of us who actually paid because it's the law?

Hey not sure of figures at the moment but at the time of the deadline the majority of this country believed it to be unfair so if we had all refused to pay , the government would' ve had to rethink the charge.
And there isn't much fairness considering the government got their cut from stamp duty, income on a rentall property, Nppr and contributions from the developers.
At the end of the day this charge is just a money grabbing exercise.
Aside though rental property inspections, important as they are regarding fire and ventilation issues, have never been high on Clare county councils agenda....until now!

bananaskin

miss no stars wrote: »

Pay your tax like you're supposed to. Stop whinging about "oh it's not fair". Tax never feels fair. Deal with it.

I have paid plenty of tax fair or not.
But I don't believe into being bullied into anything. I stand up for myself it's a pity more didn't . If I think something isn't right I will question it as I am doing now. I don't just rush out and do as I am told.

Sulla Felix

I presume you don't pay income tax or prsi or VAT either, since surely a good percentage of those gets wasted too.

athtrasna

bananaskin wrote: »

Hey not sure of figures at the moment but at the time of the deadline the majority of this country believed it to be unfair so if we had all refused to pay , the government would' ve had to rethink the charge.
And there isn't much fairness considering the government got their cut from stamp duty, income on a rentall property, Nppr and contributions from the developers.
At the end of the day this charge is just a money grabbing exercise.
Aside though rental property inspections, important as they are regarding fire and ventilation issues, have never been high on Clare county councils agenda....until now!

The government didn't just decide to bring in a new tax, it was a requirement of the Troika. Don't forget that the Household Charge money is paid to and used by councils. It's needed to fix roads, pay grants, light streets etc. Your decision not to pay for political reasons is hurting the people of your county even more.

Pretty much every western country has a property tax in some form or other. But this is accommodation and property not politics.

The council should be inspecting all rented properties, and have to start somewhere. Fair play to them for starting with those whose money they need for basic budget items.

bananaskin

Sulla Felix wrote: »

I presume you don't pay income tax or prsi or VAT either, since surely a good percentage of those gets wasted too.

As far as I'm aware
Prsi isnt wasted as it gives you an income if you become unemployed. Now if it didn't give anything back then I would question paying it. Similarly income tax and vat go towards the day to day running of the country so I would't say it's a waste.

So you can presume i do pay those taxes. Can you honestly tell me where the household charge is going??

bananaskin

athtrasna wrote: »

The government didn't just decide to bring in a new tax, it was a requirement of the Troika. Don't forget that the Household Charge money is paid to and used by councils. It's needed to fix roads, pay grants, light streets etc. Your decision not to pay for political reasons is hurting the people of your county even more.

Pretty much every western country has a property tax in some form or other. But this is accommodation and property not politics.

The council should be inspecting all rented properties, and have to start somewhere. Fair play to them for starting with those whose money they need for basic budget items.

I understand where you believe the money will be put to i.e roads lighting and grants ..,
But where did the councils get the money from ,before the household charge and what did the councils do with all the money they gathered in the boom years.
Seems like we are going off topic.
As I have said before will probably pay it sooner rather then later but don't like county councils trying to twist your arm into paying something..

RainyDay

bananaskin wrote: »

As I have said before will probably pay it sooner rather then later

So you're keen to add some penalties and interest to the amount that you pay, rather than just paying the basic charge then?

Pkiernan

Regarding the OP;s original question, it is likely that your non-payment of the charge is unrelated to your pending inspection.

Our incompetent public servants never seem to be able to talk to each other.

It is far more likely that it is simply your turn for your rental property to be inspected.

There is no charge for the inspection.
An inspector will view the property to ensure you are meeting current rental regulations such as adequate ventilation in bathrooms and bedrooms, cooking facilities.

If the property is deficient in any of these aspects you will be given time (6 weeks if I recall) to rectify any issues and have the property reinspected by the Council. If the inspection still fails, at the discretion of the inspector you may be fined daily until such point as everything is rectified.

As long as you are not a slumlord, there is little to be concerned about.

As a LL, I welcome these inspections, and given the horror stories one reads here about slumlords, there should be many more inspections.

Pkiernan

If you read thru this document, you will see what they will be looking for:

http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,19142,en.pdf

black & white

They want to ensure that the place is up to standard, I own an older prop built in the '70's and it had to have an electrical inspection, vents put in all rooms, some decoration and a patch of damp had to be treated, make sure carpets are in good order, tiles not cracked/broken, drains accessible for cleaning, 2 smoke alarms and heat alarm wired to the mains, and a few other things. They've been doing this for the last two years or so, they started with the RAS stuff. To be fair, they'll send you a list and ask you to put in right. If there's a lot on it, you can talk to them a and say you need x amount of time and they're Ok about it as long as you do safety stuff immediately.

bananaskin

Pkiernan wrote: »

If you read thru this document, you will see what they will be looking for:

http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,19142,en.pdf

Cheers for that . However in the case of Clare co co I would say the two are related. Just to say I applaud the co co for there initiative and would like all departments to be thinking like them. If they had been as proactive in the past we might not be in this trouble at present.
However still believe tax unfair and methods to retrieve it a bit sneaky...

murphaph

miss no stars wrote: »

Pay your tax like you're supposed to. Stop whinging about "oh it's not fair". Tax never feels fair. Deal with it.

I pay these taxes (but I wish they would just call them bloody taxes and not "charges") but I understand why people feel they've had enough when certain sections of society are protected at all costs (pensioners, public servants, for example) and joe public is expected to pick up the tab.

If your income tax was set at 60 or 70% I'm sure you'd reach a point where you just said "no more" as well. I suppose it's just a question of degree for most people. Some people can take more screwing than others.

If the council is using this method to determine who gets inspected, they should really be ashamed of themselves. Either rental properties need to be inspected or they don't. Whether a particular tax has been paid by the owner is irrelevant to the tenants I'm sure.

Pawwed Rig

It is harassment by the sounds of it. Using one law to enforce another un related law. The councils have been very quiet about enforcing rental standards, building standards etc but now they decide to go after people who haven't paid the household charge?

There are some people who will applaud any underhand tactic but that doesn't make it right.

On another point I am assuming the OP has paid the NPPR? I am not sure why he thinks that is fair and the household charge isn't. Would it be the size of the penalties involved?

bananaskin

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It is harassment by the sounds of it. Using one law to enforce another un related law. The councils have been very quiet about enforcing rental standards, building standards etc but now they decide to go after people who haven't paid the household charge?

There are some people who will applaud any underhand tactic but that doesn't make it right.

On another point I am assuming the OP has paid the NPPR? I am not sure why he thinks that is fair and the household charge isn't. Would it be the size of the penalties involved?

Ya have paid the Nppr since its beginning due to the penalties that are involved. Mainly thought of the Nppr as consequence of having a second property , that at some stage I may reap the rewards in the future as a pension, so similar to savings or investments you pay dirt tax.
Plus it's 200 euro doesn't s seem unreasonable as long as they don't start to increase it.

black & white

bananaskin wrote: »

Ya have paid the Nppr since its beginning due to the penalties that are involved. Mainly thought of the Nppr as consequence of having a second property , that at some stage I may reap the rewards in the future as a pension, so similar to savings or investments you pay dirt tax.
Plus it's 200 euro doesn't s seem unreasonable as long as they don't start to increase it.

My place is rented to Clare Co Co through the RAS Scheme and to get approved I had to provide proof of Tax Clearance, NPPR, Household tax, proof of Insurance and BER.

johnmolon

bananaskin wrote: »

hey
Clare county council have been on to me three times regarding Property Tax due on a rental property i have.
Today they sent me a letter stating that they are inspecting rental properties as required by legislation.
They referenced some Housing acts dating from from 1992.
Also they want me to contact them so that set a time and date so they can perform their inspection.
I have had the apartment for five years and this is the first time they have ever contacted me regarding these housing acts.
I am assuming this is related to my non-payment of the property tax which i strongly disagree to on the principle that the money will never be put into good use but squandered on inefficiencies and repayment of bank dedt.
Also, who pays for these inspections to be carried out?
If anyone else has experience of this I would be curious to know the final outcome.
Also if i paid the tax, would they call of their housing inspectors?

The two issues are seperate. the inspection is based on the private rented regulations and came into force a few years back. i assume you are registered with the PRTB because this is where youe name and address is picked from to carry out the inspection. the councils pay for the inspection themselves. you have nothing to worry about if you have a good property. the general problems identified in these inspections are lack of ventilation, smoke detectors and fire blankets etc.

Victor

johnmolon wrote: »

the councils pay for the inspection themselves.

While there is no direct charge to the landloard/tenant of the inspected property, the inspections are paid from a fund created by the PRTB registration fee.

Pawwed Rig

bananaskin wrote: »

Ya have paid the Nppr since its beginning due to the penalties that are involved. Mainly thought of the Nppr as consequence of having a second property , that at some stage I may reap the rewards in the future as a pension, so similar to savings or investments you pay dirt tax.
Plus it's 200 euro doesn't s seem unreasonable as long as they don't start to increase it.

If anything the NPPR would be a more unfair tax than the household charge. Also the fact that it is 2x the household charge would make your decision not to pay the household charge an arbitrary one rather than as a point of conviction. The NPPR was never more than a (supposed) wealth tax whereas the household charge is a more equal tax in that it affect everyone equally (leaving aside it's regressive nature). I would suspect if the penalties for the household charge were as severe as the NPPR you would have paid it long ago.

I would suspect that those who have not paid their household charge will be more likely to receive an inspection by the council in future. Considering the new legislation on it's way for landlords in 2013 a council will be able to impose huge fines where it is found (by them) that a private rented property is not up to scratch. One would think there is a conflict of interest there but not in this country apparently.

maurlyn

bananaskin wrote: »

hey
Clare county council have been on to me three times regarding Property Tax due on a rental property i have.
Today they sent me a letter stating that they are inspecting rental properties as required by legislation.
They referenced some Housing acts dating from from 1992.
Also they want me to contact them so that set a time and date so they can perform their inspection.
I have had the apartment for five years and this is the first time they have ever contacted me regarding these housing acts.
I am assuming this is related to my non-payment of the property tax which i strongly disagree to on the principle that the money will never be put into good use but squandered on inefficiencies and repayment of bank dedt.
Also, who pays for these inspections to be carried out?
If anyone else has experience of this I would be curious to know the final outcome.
Also if i paid the tax, would they call of their housing inspectors?

I have paid all my taxes since I bought my rental property 2005. This was a new house. Cork County council have sent inspectors around with one days notice and have sent me a six page letter about all the works that needs to be done..Works that should have been done to the building of the house in 2005. Thety are quoting new legislation 2008 AND 2009....I have had it!!!!

murphaph

maurlyn wrote: »

I have paid all my taxes since I bought my rental property 2005. This was a new house. Cork County council have sent inspectors around with one days notice and have sent me a six page letter about all the works that needs to be done..Works that should have been done to the building of the house in 2005. Thety are quoting new legislation 2008 AND 2009....I have had it!!!!

It's unreal isn't it. A modern house that might be no more than 5 years old built to 2005 building regs is deemed unfit for tenants yet the same house is perfectly fine for owner occupiers to live in. Bloody joke of a country sometimes.

It's also grossly unfair that some local authorities are pushing these regs and some aren't.

LowKeyReturn

It's about time more inspections were done on rental properties. The state of some of the kips around Dublin is unreal. Slum lords should be hit where it hurts - in the pocket. Land lords that continue to allow anti social behaviour should face much stiffer penalties than a €30,000 fine for ten years of non-compliance. This should be consistent no matter where you are in the country. If you're an owner occupier you are allowed, within certain limits, to live as you like. If you are running a business in renting out property you should comply with the regulations - and have no excuse for not knowing what they are.

Victor

murphaph wrote: »

It's unreal isn't it. A modern house that might be no more than 5 years old built to 2005 building regs is deemed unfit for tenants yet the same house is perfectly fine for owner occupiers to live in.

Who is to say that the property actually complied with the building regulations?

There are certain regulations relating to rented property on top of the building regulations.

murphaph

Victor wrote: »

Who is to say that the property actually complied with the building regulations?

In the United Kingdom the council would have! Over there the council must sign off on development once it is finished.

Victor wrote: »

There are certain regulations relating to rented property on top of the building regulations.

Yes but why must window openings be different in a rented house, just for one example?