Solar Central Heating?

iMADEtheBBC

Had a company rep at my door recently promoting solar panel installation which they claim will supply both central heating & hot water to my home. Not allowed to post links here apparently so all I can add is that their site claims

No Sunlight Required: We provide the world's first “daylight powered” full performance solar thermal, designed for central heating.

We are Ireland's only certified Solar Central Heating master installation contractor. -

Any knowledge of this technology and what it's likely to cost for a typical 4-bed detached house? Sounds very tempting & promising if it allows homeowners to get away from gas & oil central heating.

Rep claimed that they were due on the Late Late Show this Friday evening (19th Oct). I might break the habit of a lifetime and watch it

sydthebeat

the first thing i would say is that ALL solar collectors work off daylight and not sunlight. You do not need direct sunlight to gain heat from a solar collector.

Obviously, like everything else in life, some products are better at performing this than others.

second thing is a directly solar heated central heating system is INCREDIBLY difficult to achieve in Ireland. You need large storage volumes (in excess of 1000 litres usually as a minimum). you need, typically, a low temp emitter such as under floor heating... and NOT high temperature emitters such as radiators.

thirdly, having checked out the website... its VERY fishy to me that theonly hotlinks on the whole website are to its own twitter account???
No links to independent data analysis, no links to accredited products,
actually... there no description at all on the website of what the actual system is... only mad claims about it delivering over 3 times the energy of the next best system....

reminds me of a saying i always heed about something sounding too good to be true....;)

iMADEtheBBC

It does sound too good to be true. It'll be interesting to see how this one runs. Have any other companies made similar claims?

John T Carroll

iMADEtheBBC wrote: »

Had a company rep at my door recently promoting solar panel installation which they claim will supply both central heating & hot water to my home. Not allowed to post links here apparently so all I can add is that their site claims






Any knowledge of this technology and what it's likely to cost for a typical 4-bed detached house? Sounds very tempting & promising if it allows homeowners to get away from gas & oil central heating.

Rep claimed that they were due on the Late Late Show this Friday evening (19th Oct). I might break the habit of a lifetime and watch it

This system possibly incorpates a heat pump which uses the water/glycol in the Solar Array as the heat pump source. It should then have a higher Coefficient of Performance (COP) than an Air Sourced Heat Pump, if used for Central Heating ONLY then because, once the rads/house are hot, the final Heat Pump discharge temperature could then be lowered (possibly by a variable speed compressor) thus raising the COP. However as you say it also supplies DHW requirements it would have to run harder (more power) to achieve the relatively high discharge temperature required, for at least the time the heat input is required for DHW production. Anyway, all will be revealed on the Late Late. JTC

frostydog

Hi,

I just had a rep from a different company call this evening.
I had the sames experience in regards to the questions, If my partner was in and also had the one off offer that was only available this evening.
I had an original quote for 8990 and when i said this was very expensive it was dropped to 5900. The original quote did not include the government grant and the amended one did plus the discount for various bits and bobs, including that we become the XXXXX home for this area and they are allowed to put up there advertisement etc.

What i was quoted for was a 200L tank - 3 panels in roof - 1 of which is dedicated to the heating. I also have a 4 bed detached bungalow
The rep was a decent enough guy (Dare i say it typical sales guy smudged figures where he had to) but i feel its a bit pricey and i'm slightly wary of any situation involving that amount of cash where they are looking for decision on the spot.

I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts

freddyuk

frostydog wrote: »

Hi,

I just had a rep from a different company call this evening.
I had the sames experience in regards to the questions, If my partner was in and also had the one off offer that was only available this evening.
I had an original quote for 8990 and when i said this was very expensive it was dropped to 5900. The original quote did not include the government grant and the amended one did plus the discount for various bits and bobs, including that we become the XXXXX home for this area and they are allowed to put up there advertisement etc.

What i was quoted for was a 200L tank - 3 panels in roof - 1 of which is dedicated to the heating. I also have a 4 bed detached bungalow
The rep was a decent enough guy (Dare i say it typical sales guy smudged figures where he had to) but i feel its a bit pricey and i'm slightly wary of any situation involving that amount of cash where they are looking for decision on the spot.

I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts

My thoughts are very simple. If someone comes to your house and tries to rip you off for €3,000 why would you even consider doing business with them? Salesman have to be "nice" as if they were less than nice they would not sell anything. The reason they want a decision on the spot is so you do not have a chance to think about the deal and they can walk off with a nice commission bonus. Any decent supplier will offer you good kit at a good price and you can take as long as you like to make a decision because the price is the price ie. cost plus a business margin for the supplier. End of...

frostydog

Thanks Freddyuk.

You're completely right. End of conversation.

iMADEtheBBC

I don't do business at my door. I tell them to leave information with me or a business card with a website where I can read about their product. If they don't like that then they don't get my business.

I'm still curious though about the claims to supply central heating via solar panel. The rep who called to my door didn't mention pricing but said that their central heating product was patented and the only one of it's kind in Ireland. I know a little about patents so I will pin them on this when or if I get a callback from them. If they've been telling porkies they're not getting beyond a callback.

frostydog

Most definitely look into it more. Since yesterday have a had them on a few times. They came back with a reduced price for a lesser term warranty. I then asked if i could have in writing what i was actually getting i.e. make, model, manufacture - for a guy that was so eager initially i have heard nothing back. Just be wary of these guys from <snip> maybe they are ligit but i think they are over priced and very vauge on exactelly what your are getting


do not name companies, either through websites or whatever.

sydthebeat

iMADEtheBBC

Just got off the phone with this company and have a lot more information on this but since companies and websites cannot be named there's not much point updating.

Kind of defeats the point of an discussion forum....

5h4mr0(k

Just saw this thread. Were they on the LLS on Friday night?

sydthebeat

iMADEtheBBC wrote: »

Just got off the phone with this company and have a lot more information on this but since companies and websites cannot be named there's not much point updating.

Kind of defeats the point of an discussion forum....

You can discuss the merits of the product as long as you don't name the product or company.

sas

By the sounds of it this is those "thermodynamic solar panel" that have been discussed here previously.

A quick search OP on boards and you'll find a few discussions and info. from a couple of people that have them.

Plumbing forum has a thread with some detail in it.

My only reservation with this is "if" they are the real deal, why the hell is such an innovation being brought into the Irish market by what are clearly very small (bordering on sole trader it appears) type companies. Companies that could disappear over night for example leaving people with systems that can't be serviced\repaired.

freddyuk

This has been posted on another forum in UK...

Dear Solar Thermal Installer

MCS has recently become aware of a number of products that are being sold into the UK market with Solar Keymark approval specified as Thermodynamic Panels that initially would appear to fit into the scope of MIS3001. In most cases these collectors are typically filled directly with a refrigerant.
Following a significant number of calls into MCS we are aiming to clarify with the manufacturers the technical aspects of this product type and whilst this work is being undertaken we urge installers to consider the following in relation to any such system:
1. Is all of the necessary data present to complete section H of SAP to determine the estimated annual contribution of the system – we have identified some systems where this data is not present
2. Do the collectors and associated heatpump have the required regulatory approvals in relation to its construction and performance – a heatpump certified to EN14511 may fulfil these requirements, MCS 020 may also need to be considered.
3. When undertaking the installation of any product that requires the composition of and / or connection into a Fluorinated Gas transfer pipe, do all of the appropriate operatives hold the necessary qualifications / registrations to undertake this work? Please note that this is a legal requirement.
4. Have you clarified with your certification body that your certification covers the type of work potentially being undertaken, especially in relation to the use of refrigerant gases?
MCS is working with the manufacturers and is seeking to clarify whether and how these systems may fit into the MCS scheme, in the meantime we strongly advise that you carefully consider if any and all of the above criteria, along with any other scheme requirements can be met when fitting these types of system. At present there is no formal acknowledgement that these products will be included within the RHI.
It is essential to be aware that if the systems are found not be compliant with the MCS scheme then the MCS installation certificate may become invalid and the customer and subsequently yourselves would then be disadvantaged. At the moment, we have not yet taken the decision to suspend the registration of these products with the Scheme until we have had further discussion with the manufacturers, however, please note that this may be an action that is taken until the requirements for the Scheme can be specified fully. We will be emailing all installers again as soon as we have concluded our research into these types of products



Basically these units are being sold as Solar Thermal so as to get the grants which are not available for unproven Heat Pump technology. In Ireland a simple Solar Keymark opens doors but there is still no real manufacturers backed performance information so to offer these as whole house heating systems is ludicrous. If they fail to work efficiently in colder weather then your bills may rocket but your alternative heating may have been decommissioned.
They heat DHW in a cylinder to 55c. if they fail to perform you can switch on the immersion heater. If you want to risk running your heating system on your immersion heater then good luck as this could be your only option.
I hope this winter will be cold and we can get information from posters here on what happens to their energy costs using these units for dhw.

sydthebeat

as far as im concerned, if theyre calling to your door to make a sale, the product isnt market worthy.

BryanF

There is a long thread on thermodynamic panels on the renwables page. Seai in there wisdom have classified this product as a 'solar panel' , the fools !

iMADEtheBBC

sydthebeat wrote: »

You can discuss the merits of the product as long as you don't name the product or company.

You're kidding? That's hysterical.

freddyuk

What's the problem? Just offer the information without naming the company (easy as we all know it) or the product which is generically known as a thermodynamic solar system (or solar thermal system for some). I am sure we can fill in the gaps.

sydthebeat

iMADEtheBBC wrote: »

You're kidding? That's hysterical.

if youve a problem with the rules, move on.

we find here usually that the posters who complain about this rule tend to have some financial interest in the product... do you?

Trhiggy83

Anyone know the approximate cost they are charging for these thermodynamic systems out of curiosity.

Sorry just read the first page.

ccsolar

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

Anyone know the approximate cost they are charging for these thermodynamic systems out of curiosity.

Sorry just read the first page.

The price varies depending on the quality of the tank you order with this type of system buy you are looking between €4500 - €5500 for domestic hot water only
The maximum distance the panel should be fitted from the tank is 10m or you could reduce the life expectancy of the compressor.
Cc

trixyben

would someone pm me the name of the crowd in question, cheers

MOTM

BryanF wrote: »

There is a long thread on thermodynamic panels on the renwables page. Seai in there wisdom have classified this product as a 'solar panel' , the fools !

If the collector is unglazed (which it is), then the solar benefit in DEAP/grant will be very low surely? ...but there is a solar collector there so why not classify it as one?

IrishCule

trixyben wrote: »

would someone pm me the name of the crowd in question, cheers

Would also like to know please.

jakko86

Im considering buying a partially built house and im wondering is there a grant to put in solar panels or is it only for older houses putting them in after?

MoiMoi

I saw the new ad the other day in the local newspaper it's called "Hone Daylight Thermal Heating System" is it the same system as in the thread? so many options out there it can get very confused! any guru can explain the difference?

DeeJunFan

MoiMoi wrote: »

I saw the new ad the other day in the local newspaper it's called "Hone Daylight Thermal Heating System" is it the same system as in the thread? so many options out there it can get very confused! any guru can explain the difference?

Not the same thing this is thermodynamic solar collector. Also consider an air source heat pump with a solar collector.

The Hone seems to be solar thermal with an oil boiler backup. and some sort of "scientific process" but i don't put much stock in that.

n1st

Has anything changed since this thread was posted?

I'm very interested in replacing the oil burner with solar or wind or whatever for central heating of a very small 3 bed cottage.

air

Put in a simple air to air heat pump. Tried and trusted technology, no snake oil.