04 Nissan Primera won't start

Dublin21

Hi,

Just tried to start my car there and whereas its trying to start/turn over, im getting a clicking sound and warning lights afterwards

I have had the battery go dead on me before through my own fault (left inside light on) but got no sound at all or warning lights, just a clicking sound when i tried to start so its different to that time.

Im wondering if a jump start would do it this time due to the fact theres lights on.

Malfunction light is Orange and remains on
Battery light is red.
NATS is red.
Airbag light red.
Oil level red.
Child safety lock blinking - Orange.

Levels all seem fine. Nct passed a few months ago.

It is due a service at the end of the month and im going to have a new battery put in anyway but would a battery issue cause the above lights?
Totally baffled and not sure if to get my insurance road side assist to come out and jump start it if this will not solve the problem?

Any idea's??...

CiniO

IMHO most likely this is a problem with the starter...

colm_mcm

Are the headlights still bright?

Dublin21

Hi,

Headlights still bright and all other lights working. Wipers are operational also...

Sorry for my ignorance but what causes issues with the starter? What would need to be done if that were the issue?

Thanks

colm_mcm

Could be either the brushes or the solenoid causing the starter problem.

Sometimes walloping the starter with a hammer will fix it for a while. My last car was very handy in that the starter is at the front of the engine and very easy to wallop. Some cars are a lot trickier

Dublin21

Thanks Colm,

So i presume if its the starter causing the issues it needs to be replaced?

Any idea of the cost of that?

Duke of Speed

clicking from a starter does not always mean its a starter banjaxed if you turn the key and its persistent it can also mean corrosion at the battery leads or a bad connection. bad connection can give you headlights dash lights but won't let enough current through to the starter to crank the engine even a cell gone in a bad battery will reduce the voltage by 2volts causing the solenoid to click through lack of current. as this is the unit that connects the heavy current to the motor get a set of good jump leads and connect to another car try start the car if it still does not connect the negative lead that goes to your car to the engine block which will eliminate faulty earths or tow the car and see will it start in 35 years i see far to many people jumping to conclusions and buying parts they don't need and it goes on wholesale in the car trade too if all fails then start looking at the starter again

HellFireClub

It's a flat battery, battery lacks the EMF required to engage the pinion in the starter motor. This is almost certainly NOT a starter motor issue, as a starter motor issue will DEFINITELY NOT cause any warning lights to illuminate on the dash, whereas a battery voltage issue will. Jump starting will get it running for you, then replace battery and test alternator for charging voltage output.

EDIT: The cooler weather is finishing off batteries that are reaching end of life. This is the start of the battery replacement season for us in the motor industry!

colm_mcm

Most cars will have the warning lights come on till the car starts

CiniO

HellFireClub wrote: »

It's a flat battery, battery lacks the EMF required to engage the pinion in the starter motor.

Then most likely there wouln't be any click sound.,

This is almost certainly NOT a starter motor issue, as a starter motor issue will DEFINITELY NOT cause any warning lights to illuminate on the dash, whereas a battery voltage issue will.

But there isn't any warning lights illuminated additionally.
What OP described is normal set of lights that come on after turning on ignition but before engine starts.
Can't see anything wrong with it.

Jump starting will get it running for you, then replace battery and test alternator for charging voltage output.

I strongly doubt it.

colm_mcm

I'd definitely try jump starting it before going at the starter

HellFireClub

CiniO wrote: »

Then most likely there wouln't be any click sound.,



But there isn't any warning lights illuminated additionally.
What OP described is normal set of lights that come on after turning on ignition but before engine starts.
Can't see anything wrong with it.


I strongly doubt it.

15 years qualified & practicing as an Automotive Engineer tells me otherwise.

Clarification on my last post, all system fault lights (engine/Airbag/SRS/ABS), will usually come on before the engine starts, then will go off once the expected sensor signals are picked up by the ECU and checked against expected values. Given that the OP can't start his car, then the lights being on at the dash, is a normal occurrence, consistent with a car that hasn't been started yet, so that information is kind of confusing the issue a small bit.

It may be the starter motor but most unlikely. Either way, trying to jump start the car will clear up the matter.

Dublin21

Thanks for all the replies.

As said i've had the battery go on me a few times before and no lights (bar the battery light) remained lit after trying to start.

This time the lights mentioned remained, its not ALL of the 'normal' lights that show when starting the car and then turn off so i was confused why there was a difference.
Not sure why lights would remain now and not before when batt died, is it connected to how 'drained' the battery actually is?...If that makes sense?

I'm pretty convinced the batt is at the end of its life and fully intend to change it before driving again but the prob is actually getting it started to get it to the garage. I wasn't sure if it was a batt issue due to the warning lights but if so i will try a jump start and see where that gets me..

Thanks again!

pred racer

Primeras (nissans in general) seem very prone to corroded battery leads, I'd start there.

HellFireClub

Dublin21 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies.

As said i've had the battery go on me a few times before and no lights (bar the battery light) remained lit after trying to start.

This time the lights mentioned remained, its not ALL of the 'normal' lights that show when starting the car and then turn off so i was confused why there was a difference.
Not sure why lights would remain now and not before when batt died, is it connected to how 'drained' the battery actually is?...If that makes sense?

I'm pretty convinced the batt is at the end of its life and fully intend to change it before driving again but the prob is actually getting it started to get it to the garage. I wasn't sure if it was a batt issue due to the warning lights but if so i will try a jump start and see where that gets me..

Thanks again!

When you have a battery voltage problem, you can have all sorts of lights coming on at the dash, and all sorts of weird functionality taking place there with regard to proper ECU signalling.

Why can't you just jump start the car to get it to the garage???

CiniO

OP let us know after you get your problem solved what was it...
Cheers.

dieselbug

More than likely a flat battery, jump it
.
Some lights may stay on now even after starting as fault codes for low voltage may be stored. Eg airbag.

Might be a good idea to remotely lock and unlock after connecting the jump leads to clear nats before starting.

Dublin21

Just got a jump today and car started thank god.

Now to get it to the garage for a replacement and diagnostic.. Hoping it was just the battery!

Thanks for the advice all.

Dublin21

Sorry to jump this thread again but just got the battery replaced on the car..
Apparently the battery that was in the car was for that of a smaller car (ex a fiesta).

The mechanic was saying that the fixtures were actually welded around the smaller battery?!?!

The new battery is in but the mechanic apparently has to weld a new box around it now to fix it in the car.

Why would someone do that?! Are we talking serious money difference between a big/small battery??

I have got the car serviced and NCT'd in the past year and no one spotted it

Oh well at least the issue has been identified!
Getting a diagnostic run on Sat just incase.. Fingers crossed thats all it was.

HellFireClub

Dublin21 wrote: »

Sorry to jump this thread again but just got the battery replaced on the car..
Apparently the battery that was in the car was for that of a smaller car (ex a fiesta).

The mechanic was saying that the fixtures were actually welded around the smaller battery?!?!

The new battery is in but the mechanic apparently has to weld a new box around it now to fix it in the car.

Why would someone do that?! Are we talking serious money difference between a big/small battery??

I have got the car serviced and NCT'd in the past year and no one spotted it

Oh well at least the issue has been identified!
Getting a diagnostic run on Sat just incase.. Fingers crossed thats all it was.

Would you not ask your mechanic why he reckons he has to weld a box around the battery? How is anyone on here going to know why he reckons he has to weld a box where there wasn't one before ffs?

dieselbug

I think the poster means someone previously modified the battery stay(box) to accomodate a smaller , incorrect battery, now he has to renew the original stay to accomodate the correct size battery.

Dublin21

dieselbug wrote: »

I think the poster means someone previously modified the battery stay(box) to accomodate a smaller , incorrect battery, now he has to renew the original stay to accomodate the correct size battery.

Exactly?.....

R0bb01987

The same issue has just happened to my car so this was useful info. Im going to replace the battery tomorrow and hopefully it will be sorted.

The car runs off a jump start but I think the batterys had it.

HellFireClub

Dublin21 wrote: »

Exactly?.....

Why would you allow a smaller, INCORRECT, replacement battery to be fitted to your vehicle?

The only correct specification replacement battery for the vehicle is the one as advised by the manufacturer, the one that was originally installed. Any motor factor can look up a book or an online catalog and identify the correct battery for this vehicle.

Honestly, sometimes I read threads on this forum and I seriously wonder how people have become so uttterly clueless when it comes to their property.

jimmyw

HellFireClub wrote: »

Why would you allow a smaller, INCORRECT, replacement battery to be fitted to your vehicle?

The only correct specification replacement battery for the vehicle is the one as advised by the manufacturer, the one that was originally installed. Any motor factor can look up a book or an online catalog and identify the correct battery for this vehicle.

Honestly, sometimes I read threads on this forum and I seriously wonder how people have become so uttterly clueless when it comes to their property.

Bit harsh.It could have happened before the OP had owned the car?

Dublin21

HellFireClub wrote: »

Why would you allow a smaller, INCORRECT, replacement battery to be fitted to your vehicle?

The only correct specification replacement battery for the vehicle is the one as advised by the manufacturer, the one that was originally installed. Any motor factor can look up a book or an online catalog and identify the correct battery for this vehicle.

Honestly, sometimes I read threads on this forum and I seriously wonder how people have become so uttterly clueless when it comes to their property.

Do you actually think i replaced the battery in my own car and then raised a thread about the fact that the battery wouldn't work without investigating it?!

I bought the car a year ago and did not replace the battery in this time.

As I pointed out it went on me a few times and when i got it to a garage i was told the battery was the wrong size for the car!
I bought it from a garage, i am not going to go through every single part of the engine and compare it against the manufacturers specifications for godsake! Who does that?!

And I honestly wonder why some ppl post on threads when they don't fully understand the actual query or comments to go with it! Time wasting! More ppl trying to explain what the actual problem is to you than commenting on the issue!

And to reiterate once more for you! I was questioning why some previous owner would bother putting in a smaller battery than required for the car - is it a money issue - Particularly when they obviously had to weld fittings to accommodate a smaller battery!


Thanks for everyone else that replied with USEFUL info!

HellFireClub

Dublin21 wrote: »

Do you actually think i replaced the battery in my own car and then raised a thread about the fact that the battery wouldn't work without investigating it?!

I bought the car a year ago and did not replace the battery in this time.

As I pointed out it went on me a few times and when i got it to a garage i was told the battery was the wrong size for the car!
I bought it from a garage, i am not going to go through every single part of the engine and compare it against the manufacturers specifications for godsake! Who does that?!

And I honestly wonder why some ppl post on threads when they don't fully understand the actual query or comments to go with it! Time wasting! More ppl trying to explain what the actual problem is to you than commenting on the issue!

And to reiterate once more for you! I was questioning why some previous owner would bother putting in a smaller battery than required for the car - is it a money issue - Particularly when they obviously had to weld fittings to accommodate a smaller battery!


Thanks for everyone else that replied with USEFUL info!

I'm just getting a bit tired of reading posts from people asking for professional/trade advice and they appear to not have the first notion of what is going on with their vehicle. You didn't mention a battery mounting issue, you mentioned a mechanic saying that he had to get into an operation where a box was being welded around the battery.

It's a simple problem with a simple solution, go on the Internet & find out what part num battery is correct for your car, then go buy it and fit it. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but if you need a mechanic to do this, then I don't believe you should be driving a car in the first place. This is as basic as it gets when it comes to car care, changing a wheel is more complicated.

I'm all for helping people out on the forum but sometimes i genuinely don't get how some people these days have such a basic lack of knowledge when it comes to their car.

Dublin21

1. Im not a mechanic and was not to know the issue was solely the battery (Hence raising this thread in the first place!) Even if i did know that 100% i would never have presumed someone would put in a smaller battery than required! (Again Hence me asking the question why someone would bother doing that!

2. My welding skills are a Little rusty! :rolleyes:

3. Ive been driving a Year. It all comes with experience and if i was to buy another car in the future i would ensure the battery is the correct size.

4. See point one, i would be inexperienced enough with cars nevermind taking out and putting in a new battery, i could potentially feck something else up that would cost more money to sort out so for now ill leave it to the professionals!

''I'm just getting a bit tired of reading posts''
VERY easy solution there! Don't read them!

As said maybe next time ill have more confidence in checking/sorting out myself but i dont think many first time buyer/drivers are going to be willing to do this job themselves!

I didnt ask how to change a battery, i didnt ask how to find out of the battery was the correct one (because initially i did not think this would have been possible!) I raised the thread because the car wouldn't start and then followed up with the mechanics reason on why it wouldn't just for other ppls curiosity!

HellFireClub

Dublin21 wrote: »

1. Im not a mechanic and was not to know the issue was solely the battery (Hence raising this thread in the first place!) Even if i did know that 100% i would never have presumed someone would put in a smaller battery than required! (Again Hence me asking the question why someone would bother doing that!

2. My welding skills are a Little rusty! :rolleyes:

3. Ive been driving a Year. It all comes with experience and if i was to buy another car in the future i would ensure the battery is the correct size.

4. See point one, i would be inexperienced enough with cars nevermind taking out and putting in a new battery, i could potentially feck something else up that would cost more money to sort out so for now ill leave it to the professionals!

''I'm just getting a bit tired of reading posts''
VERY easy solution there! Don't read them!

As said maybe next time ill have more confidence in checking/sorting out myself but i dont think many first time buyer/drivers are going to be willing to do this job themselves!

I didnt ask how to change a battery, i didnt ask how to find out of the battery was the correct one (because initially i did not think this would have been possible!) I raised the thread because the car wouldn't start and then followed up with the mechanics reason on why it wouldn't just for other ppls curiosity!

Not being smart here but I'd seriously recommend you do a course in vehicle technical fundamentals because it's hugely valuable to be informed on even as basic level with regard to what can go wrong with your car, when things go wrong.

If you go to start your car and the engine doesn't attempt to turn over, in 99% of cases, the problem is that the battery lacks cranking capacity. A battery is only needed to start a car, thereafter, a car can generate enough electricity to run itself and the prinary/ignition system needed to run the engine, etc.

You'll be a lot better positioned to make better vehicle servicing & maintenance decisions when you understand the fundamentals of how your car works and I mean that genuinely.

Dublin21

Ok fair enough but I honestly don't have time for that, i use my car for leisure not for work etc and the time and money that would take to actually do this, i'd rather just leave it in a garage.

I understand the basic workings of a car battery but i would not known by looking at the battery it was the wrong Size. It was serviced twice before (by two different garages) and i got breakdown assist to come out when i was stuck one time to jump it and that person also didn't cop the battery was the wrong size.
But as said even if i had have known it was the wrong battery in the car i still would have needed to bring it to the garage due to the weldings etc.

''15 years qualified & practicing as an Automotive Engineer tells me otherwise.''
And your advice was: ''Why can't you just jump start the car to get it to the garage???'' - Which is precisely what i did and now you are giving me a hard time about not knowing much about my car?

Its not my profession or personal interest, i use it to get around sometimes and when something goes wrong with it im not about to do a course, get the overalls on and waste my day fixing the thing up (which as said before would prob need to be taken to the garage anyway because knowing how an engine works doesn't necessarily mean i'm going to be able to fix it).

I had an issue with the car, its now solved and i posted an update as requested.
Therefore going to leave this thread now!

Thanks again everyone for the input/advice.

jimmyw

HellFireClub wrote: »

I dont think you are being fair on the the OP,Hellfireclub

Dublin21 wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong, but the impression I got from your original post Dublin 21 was that a previous owner might have been a bit of a tight a*** and welded in a bracket/tray to fit a smaller battery which was not correct for the car obviously, and your mechanic had to fit another one to accommodate the correct battery.If that is correct, how is that the OPs fault Hellfire?

Esel

Yeah, HFC (a very knowledgeable and usually very helpful poster ) got the wrong end of the stick on the small battery issue - it was cobbled in by a previous owner, and so some remedial welding was needed to make the correct new battery fit. No fault of the OP....

HellFireClub

Apologies if I was a bit harsh on the OP. Having worked in the trade for many years, I do think that there is just too much of an information deficit going on with people and their cars in this day and age, which is a bit weird I think, given that information has never been more available than it is now.

First of all, I think it's normal for any person who runs into this kind of an issue to be able to proceed along on the basis that the problem is fairly obviously one of 2 things here:

(1) Flat/defective battery, (most probable at this time of year), or a battery connectivity issue, (corroded battery terminal, bad earth, etc).

(2) Starter motor functionality issue or a starter motor connectivity issue.

I think it's fair to say, that trying the standard fix for (1), which is jump starting as originally advised, will certainly not cause any damage (if carried out correctly of course), and if the problem is not rectified by that course of action, then by all means, proceed onto (2), but the point I'm making is that there is always a cautious and wise hierarchy of responses, that are checklist like in nature, to approaching these problems, which is designed to reduce the final cost to the customer, while accurately and promptly diagnosing the actual root cause of the problem, while also not making the problem any worse here (as can and does happen when people try to delve into a problem rather than approach it in a methodical way), which in this case is to attempt to resolve (1) first, then followed by responses that may attempt to rectify (2), if (1) is not found to be the primary cause of the issue, because trying (1) does not require any more than an attempt at a jump start. Worst thing that can happen is that (2) is diagnosed, adding cost to the customer, only to discover that all along, (1) was the problem!

When I suggested this originally, (not the fault of the OP), someone else on thread seemed to think (2) was the more likely fault, but clearly the diagnostic approach was not right when someone wants to start at (2) while not looking at the (usually free) option of trying (1), which is simply a much more common problem, especially at this time of the year with lowering weather temperatures finishing off batteries that are reaching end of life.

Apologies to the OP if I was a bit short, as for welding boxes around a battery, yes, the OP was not to know that this is about the most dangerous thing you can do with a battery, (a metal box that can be welded is obviously an electrical conductor and therefore should not be placed on top of a battery), maybe he meant that the solution was to weld in a panel for the battery to sit on or something or to provide a mounting for a securing bracket to go around the top of the battery or something, I don't know, a pic maybe would have cleared things up, but I've never heard of a metal box having to be welded around a battery, that just sounds downright dangerous to me, given that a battery can explode when a spark is introduced (i.e. a welding arc!), and also the possibility that the serious electrical current capacity that exists within a battery can conduct across any metal object, such as a metal box lid, again, causing risk of battery explosion, or as I saw happen once, fire within engine bay, etc, when battery went on fire due to heat generated when battery started moving around and came into contact with metal part of engine bay.