October surprise ? Sensata

20Cent

Is this the October surprise?

Story starting to break but bound to get bigger.

Sensata, a profitable and competitive company purchased by Bain capital is about to be shipped out to China, employees have been forced to train their replacements.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/aug/10/illinois-workers-bain-outsourcing

To quote Romney
“How is it China’s been so successful in taking away our jobs?” he asked recently. “Well, let me tell you how: by cheating.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/10/us/politics/as-romney-repeats-trade-message-bain-maintains-china-ties.html?pagewanted=all

Employees have set up a camp and are occupying an area nearby in protest.

Welcome to Romeny world.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

that's the cost of making it expensive to do business in the US

when are the democrats going to make a big stink about all the jobs computers and machines have taken away from people, or is it just the chinese they're after

Memnoch

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

that's the cost of making it expensive to do business in the US

when are the democrats going to make a big stink about all the jobs computers and machines have taken away from people, or is it just the chinese they're after

So you want the American people to have the same working conditions as Chinese workers?

It's all about the cost of doing business, is that all that should matter? Never mind the quality of life for the workers or the ordinary person?

Manach

Moral outrage that life does include the practice of outsouring does not trump the realities of the market.

Memnoch

Manach wrote: »

Moral outrage that life does include the practice of outsouring does not trump the realities of the market.

The 'realities' of the market are not some omnipresent, magical constant. They are imposed and held in places by men. And are only allowed to remain as long as the population lives in ignorance and tolerates it. Markets can and should be regulated but in order to do that you need to first decide what your goal is.

Is it to make a few very rich people even richer? Or is it to improve the quality of life for as many people as possible? To give people a fair shot and stop them from being exploited?

Manic Moran

Well, until the US Government has some control over what work conditions are like in China, I think that's one of those academic questions. Any sensible organisation is going to buy the best product or service at the cheapest cost, especially in today's economy.

California, if you haven't noticed, for example, is broke, and already has pretty much the highest taxes in the nation. We're spending a lot of money on a new Bay Bridge.
http://www.npr.org/2011/09/16/140515737/california-turns-to-china-for-new-bay-bridge

This assembly will be performed early next year by American labor. But the massive cable, key sections of the iconic tower and deck were all made in China, which is emerging as an infrastructure powerhouse in more places than San Francisco. For example, Chinese companies have contracted with New York City for a bridge, the subway system and a commuter train platform.

"One proposing to do work domestically, one proposing to do the work internationally: There was a $400 million differential in that bid, and in that case it would have required the work to go international," he says.

As a California taxpayer, I am happy enough that the State saved nearly a half-billion dollars by sourcing the materials elsewhere, politics be damned.

In the meantime, how's the rustbelt coming along with their standard of living?

Any decision to go abroad has plusses and minuses. Labour costs are only one concern. How many people have you heard complaining about customer service call centers being in India or somewhere, and how happy are they to talk to an American? Costs are higher, but so is customer satisfaction, some companies are reversing that trend now. As long as US workers can provide superior benefits to counteract the cost, they'll keep working. Otherwise, no, jobs will go overseas.

NTM

20Cent

The workers at Sensata have asked Romney to go to Freeport to help them keep their jobs. He won't because he is profiting from sending American jobs to China. An normal business person one can understand but this is the guy who wants to be president surely he would come out fighting for them.

Duck Soup

Unfortunately for Romney, the connection between himself and Sensata is a bit more direct that him getting a share of the Bain profits from the outsourcing.

His 2011 tax return shows that Romney personally owns $701,703 worth of Sensata stock. Romney transferred this from his own ownership to the Tyler Charitable Foundation, a tax-exempt, non-profit entity controlled by...well, by Mitt Romney.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/27/mitt-romney-sensata-tax-break_n_1920396.html

The Tyler Charitable Foundation then gave to a number of different causes, most notably the Church of The Latter Day Saints, but also a range of conservative causes.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/170105/romneys-ungenerous-donations

Amongst the conservative causes that have received Romney's tax-free largesse in the past is the Massachusetts Family Institute, which promotes 'ex-gay' therapy, a.k.a. pray away the gay.

It seems very odd that Romney stood up in the last debate and said that he'd been in business for 25 years and didn't know what President Obama was talking about in relation to tax breaks for shifting jobs overseas. Perhaps he should have looked in his tax returns for clarification.

Amerika

Didn't Sensata only lease the operation, not purchase it?

How is Romney responsible for something that happens 12 years after he left? If he did put pressure on Bain, wouldn't that contradict his assertion that he has no involvement?

Doesn't Obama, through his state retirement fund, also have a stake in Sensata? Maybe Obama could help out and intervene.

nagilum2

This is a losing issue for Obama. Romney would respond with something like, "Mr. President, with all due respect, I can't figure out why you concerned about the activities of a company that I left more than a decade ago instead of the economy that has stagnated on your watch under your policies. I think the american people wish you were as concerned with the 23 million americans out of work in your economy."

If Obama's team has decided to make this a focus of their campaign with just three weeks left instead laying out a vision for his next four years and arguing vehemently and convincingly that his policies have helped get things turned around, then he's already lost.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

20Cent

The employees at Sensata are asking Romney to intervene or comment on the situation. He is refusing to do so. If he won't lift a finger to help these people how does one expect him to fight for American jobs?
He says he wants to run America like a business, if he runs it like his old business the US is in trouble. He is personally benefiting from sending jobs to China while complaining about China in his stump speeches.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

20Cent

Romney could do lots of things. He is a founder of Bain with a large stake in it. He could have picked up the phone and talked to his old colleagues, release a press statement, condemn it, go visit the people made unemployed to show some sympathy to their plight etc etc

Another option would be a windfall type tax for companies that move offshore.

A question making the rounds is what type of visas did the Chinese workers use to enter the US. To get a training visa one has to demonstrate that they are not training to replace the American workers, which is the case here.

This is more than just this issue at every opportunity when there is a conflict between jobs for Americans and Romney's wallet he chooses his wallet. I hope Obama brings it up tonight.

southsiderosie

20Cent wrote: »

Romney could do lots of things. He is a founder of Bain with a large stake in it. He could have picked up the phone and talked to his old colleagues, release a press statement, condemn it, go visit the people made unemployed to show some sympathy to their plight etc etc

Another option would be a windfall type tax for companies that move offshore.

A question making the rounds is what type of visas did the Chinese workers use to enter the US. To get a training visa one has to demonstrate that they are not training to replace the American workers, which is the case here.

This is more than just this issue at every opportunity when there is a conflict between jobs for Americans and Romney's wallet he chooses his wallet. I hope Obama brings it up tonight.

I am not a fan of Romney, but this makes about as much sense as blaming Jack Welch for the business practices at GE today. There is enough that can be said about Romney's practices when he was at Bain without pointing a finger at what goes on there without him.

Atlantis50

20Cent wrote: »

Romney could do lots of things. He is a founder of Bain with a large stake in it. He could have picked up the phone and talked to his old colleagues, release a press statement, condemn it, go visit the people made unemployed to show some sympathy to their plight etc etc

Another option would be a windfall type tax for companies that move offshore.

A question making the rounds is what type of visas did the Chinese workers use to enter the US. To get a training visa one has to demonstrate that they are not training to replace the American workers, which is the case here.

This is more than just this issue at every opportunity when there is a conflict between jobs for Americans and Romney's wallet he chooses his wallet. I hope Obama brings it up tonight.

Obama needs to try and persuade his megadonor who is the Managing Director of Bain to save these American jobs.

20Cent

southsiderosie wrote: »

I am not a fan of Romney, but this makes about as much sense as blaming Jack Welch for the business practices at GE today. There is enough that can be said about Romney's practices when he was at Bain without pointing a finger at what goes on there without him.

He still owns 8million in stock in Bain, is its founder and started its business model. He stands to gain from sending US jobs overseas, its also been shown that he uses various accounting techniques to avoid paying tax, also using offshore accounts. Not the kind of behaviour one would expect from someone who claims to be patriotic.

As above when American workers come between him and more cash he goes for the cash. The situation is an example of the type of vulture capitalism Romney specialises in, take a well run business making good profits, close it and send the jobs overseas. He is a politician running for president is this really the type of character one would want in charge?

He could easily make a press release or comment on what is a bad situation for the Americans he claims to care for and wants to lead.

Atlantis50

Obama needs to give back the hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations he got from the Managing Director of Bain if he really wants to raise this issue.

nagilum2

Atlantis50 wrote: »

Obama needs to give back the hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations he got from the Managing Director of Bain if he really wants to raise this issue.

Yeah this is totally a trap issue for Obama. It's one of those things that I'm sure the base wants him to bring up, but it's a loser.

Obama needs to actually lay out a compelling vision for his next four years while doing his best to pick out the best of the recent economic numbers and defend his record with data. While he's doing that, he has to contrast that vision with Romney's, and convince people that his way is better. He should take a good bit of liberty asserting linkages between his policies and the good things. He doesn't need to be accurate as much as he needs to be convincing. This is a difference Romney understands, and Obama must also.

You can't just say how terrible the other guy is while literally saying nothing about what your own plans are. That would be true of just about anyone, but ESPECIALLY Obama can't do this, because it's night and day from the way he campaigned the last time.