Doping in Golf?

m r c

What do you guys think, I'd say its big. Based on nothing concrete apart from the money available you'd be surprised what people would do to get ahead.
Two things made me wonder about it, the lance Armstrong thing in terms of performance enhancement and the buzz off other stuff that would help calm a golfer. Ever been on a hot streak and just felt calm or zen, I'm sure there is stuff to generate feelings like that out there.
You'd imagine it's going on.

big_drive

Hard to know, I'd like to think its not happening but could be totally wrong. Would it make much difference in a game like golf?

the lawman

There's a load of dopes in the society that play in my club.

Sorry.

GreeBo

m r c wrote: »

Two things made me wonder about it, the lance Armstrong thing in terms of performance enhancement and the buzz off other stuff that would help calm a golfer. Ever been on a hot streak and just felt calm or zen, I'm sure there is stuff to generate feelings like that out there.
You'd imagine it's going on.

I remember there was a golfer before who was on some stuff for a heart issue. He said it made it impossible to play because he didnt care if he played well or badly, it didnt calm him just made him disinterested.

mike12

Aren't they being tested now? If not they will be before the Olympics.
Mike

m r c

That's interesting greebo I'd have thought being calmer wouldn't have took away from from his will to win.


An example in my game would be first tee nerves or better example actually are birdie putts, I miss more birdie putts than I do for par/ bogey. In real terms the only difference is the "pressure" which I'd have assumed could be medicated if you were so inclined.

Dtoffee

I would say there are some taking betablockers ..... I remember being very surprised at how Goosen came from nowhere to win majors with an ice like attitude. More recently, Oosthuizen was remarkably cool on his way to the winners enclosure so I would not dismiss the idea.

Still gotta have the talent though :rolleyes:

FixdePitchmark

Dtoffee wrote: »

I would say there are some taking betablockers ..... I remember being very surprised at how Goosen came from nowhere to win majors with an ice like attitude. More recently, Oosthuizen was remarkably cool on his way to the winners enclosure so I would not dismiss the idea.

Still gotta have the talent though :rolleyes:

I don't know if we can say names - but I think one of the top pros out there now is on tablets for his head - is this cheating ?

Anything that suppresses emotion is an advantage.

People said snooker was a game of skill - but they were on Betablockers.

With that much money , there would be pros that take recreational drugs. Not an advantage in most cases -but would be banned in other sports.

All in all, very small impact on results.

Creasy_bear

I would have no doubt whatsoever a certain american golfer was on performance enhancing drugs. At the height of his reign anyway. No doubt.

FixdePitchmark

Creasy_bear wrote: »

I would have no doubt whatsoever a certain american golfer was on performance enhancing drugs. At the height of his reign anyway. No doubcan we say here t.

Why do you say that - maybe you can't.
Greebo what can we say here ?
But, Pros did start doing way more gym work - so bodies did change in late 90s and 00s.

Look at how Rory's body has changed over 2 years - amazing. All - so much gym work (look at neck), he has been growing still I guees.

sofireland

Didn't John Daly allege that there were several top pros who were recreational users of drugs?
I'd be surprised if there weren't to be honest, and there doesn't seem to be a screening program.

onlyfinewine

The Golfing Union of Ireland has introduced the right to test for drugs during it's championships, and for an organisation such as that, which has historically been extremely slow to adapt to new ideas, it must mean something concrete has been discovered which enhances player's ability to perform under tournament pressure. Mind you apart from Beta Blockers which were already mentioned and "grass" I don't know what else has been under investigation. Perhaps some of our chemist or chemically qualified readers might enlighten us?

sofireland

Surely something like Valium/Prozac might help someone specially someone who might be nervous over 4-6 footers.
Do the PGA/European Tour have an official policy?

FixdePitchmark

onlyfinewine wrote: »

The Golfing Union of Ireland has introduced the right to test for drugs during it's championships, and for an organisation such as that, which has historically been extremely slow to adapt to new ideas, it must mean something concrete has been discovered which enhances player's ability to perform under tournament pressure. Mind you apart from Beta Blockers which were already mentioned and "grass" I don't know what else has been under investigation. Perhaps some of our chemist or chemically qualified readers might enlighten us?

There is plenty of "Grass" in golf.


Sorry awful pun.

FixdePitchmark

If we could only "speed" up golf,
Golf is some "Crack"
There is great "Heroine" players in golf

m r c

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Creasy_bear wrote: »

I would have no doubt whatsoever a certain american golfer was on performance enhancing drugs. At the height of his reign anyway. No doubcan we say here t.

Why do you say that - maybe you can't.
Greebo what can we say here ?
But, Pros did start doing way more gym work - so bodies did change in late 90s and 00s.

Look at how Rory's body has changed over 2 years - amazing. All - so much gym work (look at neck), he has been growing still I guees.

I'm no mod but I wouldn't recommend naming or "not naming" anyone.
I don't understand what those beta blockers do I must google them.
If I was doping in golf I wouldn't want to be physically better but to be more, idk unaffected or kinda psychopathic. Sorta remorseless for the bad shots and super confident about the next.

m r c

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

If we could only "speed" up golf,
Golf is some "Crack"
There is great "Heroine" players in golf

There are no drugs for what you suffer from ;-)

FixdePitchmark

m r c wrote: »

There are no drugs for what you suffer from ;-)

In the "Drink".

sofireland

he's here all week folks!
don't beta blockers basically slow down the heart rate -

goodgolfer64

know of a kelly lad from co louth that used beta blockers for nerves!!!!
practised 7 hours a day and still got nervous over small one putts......and still ****!!!!
dont think they are in this sport....and if they are i question harringtons stare when i contention if thats the case hahahhaha....

FixdePitchmark

sofireland wrote: »

he's here all week folks!
don't beta blockers basically slow down the heart rate -

Who man - **** i getting paranoid with all this drug talk.

Weren't Slazenger "XTC" great clubs.

Sorry that is it (last one), had to go too deep for that one.

sofireland

Paranoia is a side effect from inhaling grass i believe!
It is true though, you play your best golf when you're relaxed

GreeBo

found the article i was talking about, nick price.
he describes the feelings as “ just blah"
linky

buyer95

Creasy_bear wrote: »

I would have no doubt whatsoever a certain american golfer was on performance enhancing drugs. At the height of his reign anyway. No doubt.

Tiger Woods has had these allegations follow him around for nearly 10 years, and they have never been found to be through, its all hearsay. The man was simply a great golf player, end of. We don't need your veiled snipes at one of the greats on this forum, thank you very much

FixdePitchmark

buyer95 wrote: »

Tiger Woods has had these allegations follow him around for nearly 10 years, and they have never been found to be through, its all hearsay. The man was simply a great golf player, end of. We don't need your veiled snipes at one of the greats on this forum, thank you very much

In fairness to Tiger, he did enough damage to himself without the snipes.

Still the best ever.

He just did Gym work.

PARlance

sofireland wrote: »

Surely something like Valium/Prozac might help someone specially someone who might be nervous over 4-6 footers.
Do the PGA/European Tour have an official policy?

Or cocaine to give you that little edge on the confidence front.
I could see it now...someone smashing a drive then rushing down the fairway shouting "mashed potato", talking sh1t to ever supporter along the way, then making it to the fairway before the ball has landed.

Valium/Prozac would kill the nerves alright but I'd say the 4-6 footer would be for a quadruple bogey if you were on something like that.

buyer95

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

In fairness to Tiger, he did enough damage to himself without the snipes.

Still the best ever.

He just did Gym work.

Jack Nicklaus would have a thing or two to say about that, but for sure Nicklaus and Woods are way ahead of the others when we are talking G.O.A.T

FixdePitchmark

ajcurry123 wrote: »

Or cocaine to give you that little edge on the confidence front.
I could see it now...someone smashing a drive then rushing down the fairway shouting "mashed potato", talking sh1t to ever supporter along the way, then making it to the fairway before the ball has landed.

Valium/Prozac would kill the nerves alright but I'd say the 4-6 footer would be for a quadruple bogey if you were on something like that.

I had drugs once before golf, about 9 pints up till 5 am , up for a 9 am tee off. Made me play pure ****, was dying for a ****e then, had a shank, and shaky hands over a 2 foot putt.

45 on front, more drugs then - Isotonic Lucozade Sport. Just made me piss orange. The Drugs Don't Work, they just make things worse.

FixdePitchmark

buyer95 wrote: »

Jack Nicklaus would have a thing or two to say about that, but for sure Nicklaus and Woods are way ahead of the others when we are talking G.O.A.T

Na - way more difficult what Tiger did, modern game more global and more great players. Nobody will ever get over 10 again (IMO). (sorry that is off thread, cause I'm off me head)

MP62

Doping is alive and well on golf section here, just look at main page, fellas looking for quick fixes for inherent swing faults with no inclination to put in the hard hours, and more fellas expecting to get 20 yards with this years latest gear, what is it they say again about fools and their money.

slave1

Given the various back ailments in particular along with the age profile of golfers who can play into their early 50's and remain somewhat competitive I'd suggest there's any amount of OTC/prescribed muscle relaxants and ache and pain meds used on a daily basis, we're talking all legal stuff that anyone one of us could use like ibuprofen/naproxen/skelaxin types.
As they make golfers feel better they could be considered performance enhancing.

Regarding Tiger comments I personally don't think he dopes up, it is pretty well known that he has had hypnotism before rounds though....

HuntingDrog

goodgolfer64 wrote: »

know of a kelly lad from co louth that used beta blockers for nerves!!!!
practised 7 hours a day and still got nervous over small one putts......and still ****!!!!

U sure of this? think i know of the lad and he wouldn't strike me as anybody who would use this stuff?

mike12

http://www.golf.com/ap-news/drug-testing-arrive-tour-next-summer

There has been drug testing on both tours since 2008 so don't think there is any big problem.
http://www.golftoimpress.com/did-many-pga-pros-fail-their-drug-test/


Mike

FixdePitchmark

mike12 wrote: »

http://www.golf.com/ap-news/drug-testing-arrive-tour-next-summer

There has been drug testing on both tours since 2008 so don't think there is any big problem.
http://www.golftoimpress.com/did-many-pga-pros-fail-their-drug-test/


Mike

Yes maybe not a big problem in golf, but there has been drug testing in the Tour De France since the 1950s.

mike12

It looks like in golf they test for anything that would give an advantage but turn a blind eye to some other stuff, they are not going to ban anyone for taking an over the counter cold remedy. I think the type of people who play golf and it so self policed that they thought of cheating would stop most of them. If you wanted to cheat especially at a lower level before you get to the main tour, them the magical ball appearing in the rough would probably give you more of an advantage.

BoardsMember

mike12 wrote: »

There has been drug testing on both tours since 2008 so don't think there is any big problem.


Mike

That's one hell of a statement considering a certain little piece of cycling news in the papers the last few days.

I have a vague memory of there being issues between PGA and WADA (or similar) way back, and them not being too enamoured with how diligent or thorough their anti-doping measures, rules and testing were.

ridonkulous

GreeBo wrote: »

I remember there was a golfer before who was on some stuff for a heart issue. He said it made it impossible to play because he didnt care if he played well or badly, it didnt calm him just made him disinterested.

Nick Price and he was taking beta blockers to slow his heart rate down. He said it was all fine until he was coming down the stretch and he couldn't get up any enthusiasm/adrenaline he felt was required so he stopped. Apparently a few guys back in the day gave these a go.

mike12

BoardsMember wrote: »

That's one hell of a statement considering a certain little piece of cycling news in the papers the last few days.

I have a vague memory of there being issues between PGA and WADA (or similar) way back, and them not being too enamoured with how diligent or thorough their anti-doping measures, rules and testing were.

Golf isn't an endurance sport, they test for steroids and Beta blockers that may give a golfer a slight advantage. There was a code in cycling about drugs because almost everyone of they was doing something that they all kept quite.
Do you think that if the like of Paddy and 99% of other pro golfers thought that it was going on that they would be up in arms.
Mike

nomunnnofun

I remember playing many years ago in Australia with a few adventurous friends;) who hada couple of funny fags during the round. They were definitely more relaxed. Best thing was though they were putting down scores that were nowhere close to what they had taken. They were being honest about it too. They couldn't actually remember how many shots they had taken in the previous 400 yards:pac:. Great fun. If I wasn't with them they would have had a below par round.

BoardsMember

mike12 wrote: »

Golf isn't an endurance sport, they test for steroids and Beta blockers that may give a golfer a slight advantage. There was a code in cycling about drugs because almost everyone of they was doing something that they all kept quite.
Do you think that if the like of Paddy and 99% of other pro golfers thought that it was going on that they would be up in arms.
Mike

I was just pointing out that your statement "There has been drug testing on both tours since 2008 so don't think there is any big problem." makes no sense.

The existence of there being drugs tests in a given sport, and that sport being clean are two very different things.

Nor is it relevant what type of drugs could be in use, i.e. whether it is an endurance sport, or whether it is a calming agent that is required.

I think Player is on the record repeatedly suggesting all is not rosey in the garden, and that there is a deeper and wider issue of drug use in golf. I wouldn't be too surprised. There is too much money and the stakes are too high for human nature not to kick in.

mike12

If Player had any real idea why did he not out the guys it was a statement he made that he couldn't back up, he was the first fitness freak in golf and he has a problem with guys that can go to the gym now and bulk up. Back in the 50's thru to the early 90's there are very few players who you would say were athletes playing Pro golf now half the newer guys on tour are athletes. There are very few drugs if any that would have a positive effect on your golf game.
The effectiveness of testing may be an issue but as around 50% of a players earnings come from sponsors they would be mad to be outed as a drug cheat and I’d say there fellow players would be the biggest critics, they would see no difference with a guy marking a shot less on his score card or doing something illegal to shoot 1 shot less a round.
If it was a power sport or an endurance sport then like every other sport there would be guys getting a big advantage by doping its not its a sport where a guy 5 foot 6 and 150 pounds can hit the ball the same distance as a guy 6 foot 6 and 250 pounds. If there was a drug to make your technique better then maybe but i don't think there is.
Mike

GreeBo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

In fairness to Tiger, he did enough damage to himself without the snipes.

Still the best ever.

He just did Gym work.

buyer95 wrote: »

Jack Nicklaus would have a thing or two to say about that, but for sure Nicklaus and Woods are way ahead of the others when we are talking G.O.A.T

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Na - way more difficult what Tiger did, modern game more global and more great players. Nobody will ever get over 10 again (IMO). (sorry that is off thread, cause I'm off me head)

Lets keep it on topic please lads.

dines08

nomunnnofun wrote: »

I remember playing many years ago in Australia with a few adventurous friends;) who hada couple of funny fags during the round. They were definitely more relaxed. Best thing was though they were putting down scores that were nowhere close to what they had taken. They were being honest about it too. They couldn't actually remember how many shots they had taken in the previous 400 yards:pac:. Great fun. If I wasn't with them they would have had a below par round.

Apologies for being off topic but...

Know a guy who's played golf for 2 years... Likes the whacky backy and doesn't take the game too serious even though he'd be out 2 or 3 times a week. About 3-4 months back I asked him did he play better with or without being stoned. He started laughing and said I couldn't tell you. I've never played not stoned... Comical

tayto lover

I can't really see where it would help your game to be on something. You need the nerves sometimes to keep you focused and you can do without them when taking an important putt. Unless there is a drug that you can switch on and off.

BoardsMember

Watch this space, I think there is a fair bit of naivety around here. There is no doubt that the same nerve pacifiers, drugs like beta blockers, would be very useful in golf, just as they were in snooker. To think that there is nobody using them is hard to believe.

Webbs

BoardsMember wrote: »

Watch this space, I think there is a fair bit of naivety around here. There is no doubt that the same nerve pacifiers, drugs like beta blockers, would be very useful in golf, just as they were in snooker. To think that there is nobody using them is hard to believe.

But snooker is the equivalent of putting, in snooker they dont have a grip and rip it.
For this surely you want some adrenalin and 'nervous energy', I dont really know what betablockers would do in this case but as another poster said I cant see how you can turn on and off the effects of a drug.

mike12

BoardsMember wrote: »

Watch this space, I think there is a fair bit of naivety around here. There is no doubt that the same nerve pacifiers, drugs like beta blockers, would be very useful in golf, just as they were in snooker. To think that there is nobody using them is hard to believe.

So you think there are loads of Pro golfers staying ahead of the drug testers, i'm sure Beta Blockers have to be in your system for them to work and most of the drug tests in golf are done during competition. This thread seems to be trying to imply or make a story out of nothing.
I'll be shocked if anyone in the top 100 in the WR get caught for anything some journey man with no sponsorship maybe but zero of the top guys.
Mike

m r c

BoardsMember wrote: »

Watch this space, I think there is a fair bit of naivety around here. There is no doubt that the same nerve pacifiers, drugs like beta blockers, would be very useful in golf, just as they were in snooker. To think that there is nobody using them is hard to believe.

I'd agree with you, people would be amazed how complex and well hidden doping can be.
In the worlds top 100 any small edge is huge they are all such talented people. Any one can be devastatingly brilliant any given day.

GreeBo

BoardsMember wrote: »

Watch this space, I think there is a fair bit of naivety around here. There is no doubt that the same nerve pacifiers, drugs like beta blockers, would be very useful in golf, just as they were in snooker. To think that there is nobody using them is hard to believe.

well we have already heard from nick price that beta blockers didn't help at all.
i don't think its naivety, personally I'm just not sure what the benefits would be in a sport like golf that demands very different emotions for the different shots.
I'd imagine the most useful would be something to help with the gym work and long practice sessions during the off season rather than something they are on mid season.

mike12

GreeBo wrote: »

well we have already heard from nick price that beta blockers didn't help at all.
i don't think its naivety, personally I'm just not sure what the benefits would be in a sport like golf that demands very different emotions for the different shots.
I'd imagine the most useful would be something to help with the gym work and long practice sessions during the off season rather than something they are on mid season.

That must be what Lowery is doing. Even something to help with the guy work would be of very little benefit, power has very little to do with distance, the only real benefit could be something to help you come back from injury quicker.
Doping in other sports are generally done to boost stamina to allow you to train harder, no real benefit for golfers.
Or to add power and muscle again no real benefit to golfers.
I don't think there are really any drugs that help with flexiability which would be a benefit.
The beta blockers are no help either it seems.
Mike

BoardsMember

That must be why WADA has banned them then, yeah?

Just because Nick Price is quoted as saying they were no use for him doesn't render them useless. Someone who has terrible problems with nerves is definitely going to benefit from them. He may not be able to get as fired up, but that's the trade off. Assuming the drugs have not evolved since Nick took them....oh, 30 years ago. What are the possibilities they have not evolved in that time?

It's also conceivable that there are similar drugs to this that help with anxiousness but don't dampen the other emotions that might be useful to a golfer.

Doping in other sports is done for all sorts of reasons. Doping in all sports is done for all sorts of reasons. Most sportspeople would benefit from steadier nerves, fitness, recovery from injury, improved stamina etc. Golf is not unique. From archery to darts to pole vaulting & high jumping, there are so many sports with similarities.