Mother is making my marriage ....uncomfortable

mashedbanana

Some back groud info.

My mother was never the type of mother that one could call an Irish soft Mammy. She was hard, very hard. She wasn't liked cos of her pushy, arrogant ways, the general public didn't like her. She was the type of woman that should never have had a family. Her idea of us being spoilt was 'Well at least I didnt put ye out to work at 14 like I could have' We never got any effection from her. She took tough love to a whole new level. She never like house work. The house was always walking with the dirt. as was the bed clothes. Our clothes were always clean though....but we never got a bath, and was always made to feel guilty for wanting a wash. She was always paranoid, and still is... e.g 'What do you mean you want another bath this week, I dont have a bath every week, are you calling me dirty?'

She always had a massive problem appreciating what she had. 'ALL that I could have been' 'If only I got the chance' yet would never consider an adult evening course. She loved to read, and would baffle people with her massive words, would go as far to correcting peoples use of the english language.'I think you'll find your using the word in the wrong context there' etc etc.

She was highly abusive at home, very aggressive verbally & physically. We could never understand why she couldn't just give us a hammering stood in the kitchen, like, why drag us into the living room by the hair of the head to hammer us again in there? Now before you mention boy friends& girl friends. Well, they simply didnt exist. We were the type of kids that when we left home, we were very green behind the ears! We were not allowed friends, we weren't allowed any where, and no one was allowed to our house 'Why do you want [name] coming home here for, so they can see what we have, I don't like her mother anyway' (btw, we had nothing anyway)

We weren't bold kids, we just weren't. When my father refused to bend over backwards for her, she'd get violently angry...we knew then to bolt it up the stairs, knowing eventually that the frustration would be taken out on us. I tried to explain to someone once that there were arguments in our house every day of the week including Christmas day. They couldn't comprehend it. She could never take/get a joke. Always assumed that if as kids you were giggling, then you mUST be mocking/laughing at her. We were beaten infront of eachother, as a warning to the next.

Money was tight, at that time it was tight in Everyones house late 80's early 90's. But the violence was vicious. poking us in the breasts when we were still developing....etc. she never had a problem with walking around the house half dressed on her way to the loo, with ZERO regard for my brothers. Changing her sanitary towel and throwing it into the fire, while we are all sat in the room watching tv (a programme of her choosing, naturally)

She be off to town once a week to do the weekly shopping, this would take 6/7 hours. cos she'd have to have coffee with [name], and a long chat. we be at home with our stomach back to out back bone, waiting. She'd be in town with her tea & cream cake that [name] bought her. You darent question her though, cos she could make an argument drag on & on on for hours. We'd all have to listen to it. The only female friends she had were the 'loose' type, she used to get a kick out of people talking about her in the same fashion. People thought that she was 'loose' too, because of her aquaintances, she LOVED this. Cos she'd get to send...et another...solicitors letter to someone who spoke aout her. She loves the argument you see, loves abusing people, shaming them in public, the bigger the audience the better. We learned from an early age, NEVER question her, and NEVER EVER in public. Pushy, arrogant, Narcissist.

We all left (escaped) at 16. Green as anything, but free. So of course we went loopers!!!!!! Eventually we settled down and got married. But because she had fought with some many people from town we weren't liked. People wrongly assumed that we were like her. We are nothing like her Thank God. It was thrown up to us a few times, what she was like as a younger woman, and we dont even have the urge to defend her anymore. Cos what they say is all true.

She never liked any of her our husbands/wives. She despices all our in-laws. She didn't make it any bit easy for any of us to have a marriage. as a result, half of her kids are divorced.She hates my husbands family, I can't even mention them on the phone. After years & years of her upsetting me (on purpose) my husband finally stepped in and ripped her a new one. She mis-heard him, and now thinks she is barred from our home. (this actually suits me down to the ground) But my dad .....he and her always had one thing in common. They both loved HER very very much. He was not strong enough for her. He's a quiet man. he'd sit and watch her beat us, and eventually say 'that's it enough now mam'. Then she'd hammer him around the head. Christmas day was never any different. Or easter Sunday morning. We were instructed what to do/wear/say/ every time we stepped outside the door.

My dad is in bad health now, but to speak to him i have to get drgged over hot coals by her. Made to feel like shi*, then towards then end of the call she might allow him on for 2-3 minutes. With her listening along of course, no privacy. never any privay.

She doesnt want me with my husband anymore. We have a family, and have had to move mile & miles away, But has told me in not so many words, that my FAMILY is the priority....not a husband. I asked her once, do you want another divorce in the family? and her answer...: Well, considering whats been said in the past, it's up to yourself' She'd give anything to have a chance to give the 2 finger salute to my husbands family. She told me only a few months ago 'You, are ours, not theirs' Like I was a piece of property. It wouldn't matter that I'd be on my own with no immediate source of income, and raising a family.

God even the holy communions, & confrmations were a day of anxiety & dread, up set stomachs etc....Well she couldn't be seen to start any anamosity in front of 'the other crowd' so RIPPED into the waitress instead becuase she was one of the last to get her plate of grub. You could hear a pin drop in the restaurant. I was mortified, but didnt rise to it. They went away home early that day, cos I was talking to my husbands family, and she was timing how much I spent with both sides.

She had affairs in the marriage, yet would go on to say 'I owe nothing to anybody' 'I don't have to justify myself to anyone' These men she had fun with were friends of our dad. I was 8 when I found out there was no Santa, She left age inappropriate presents under the tree, and a hand written card pretending it to be from santa, with one of the mens names also on the card.

She is an OAP now but still as active/mobile/visious/controlling/vindictive as she was 40 years ago.

If I dont answer her calls, she leaves messages on the voice mail and always uses the same tone as much to say 'how dare you for not answering'

Please tell me that I'm not the only person with a mother like this? Any advice on how to handle her....anything? Thanks

Catari Jaguar

OP, I don't understand why she is allowed to be a part of your life? Cut her out. I certainly wouldn't let a vicious piece of work like that be anywhere near my children. You've been made to feel guilty, and to love her no matter what, but you know what? You don't have to. She doesn't deserve you. Tell her in no uncertain terms how you feel and just cut her out and don't look back. Maybe get some counselling for yourself. Life's too short for dread and stress and emotional blackmail. You need to think of you, your husband & your children.

whatdoicare

I hate to say this and I know it sounds absolutely terrible but you're going to have to leave your dad behind and cut your Mam off altogether. There's just no way around it and you have to be what you might consider to be selfish. Your Mam, believe it or not, still has total control over you and is still abusing you.

You have to do this or you'll lose your lovely family.

Go to counselling and work out how to do this properly first and how to help yourself be at peace with this course of action. You can't keep living like this, it's abuse and it can't be good for your mental health and that of your family.

Best of luck, hope you can find the strength to put yourself first.

mashedbanana

You know, I suppose the 2 of ye are right. But ya,finding the courage to actually stand up to her, thats another struggle. I have no feeings left for her, my siblings don't either, but mone of us has the backbone to really express ourslves to her. As adults she has 'bought' us. At the first sign of conflict we get the usual 'After all I did for ye' It's almost easier to dodge as many phone calls as possible, and to cut short any nasty calls after that. She is fearful of no one, we habe never known anyone like her. There is no softness, but as sweet as pie to certain people.

whatdoicare

mashedbanana wrote: »

You know, I suppose the 2 of ye are right. But ya,finding the courage to actually stand up to her, thats another struggle. I have no feeings left for her, my siblings don't either, but mone of us has the backbone to really express ourslves to her. As adults she has 'bought' us. At the first sign of conflict we get the usual 'After all I did for ye' It's almost easier to dodge as many phone calls as possible, and to cut short any nasty calls after that. She is fearful of no one, we habe never known anyone like her. There is no softness, but as sweet as pie to certain people.

That's why we would recommend counselling first - a good counsellor will give you the tools to put boundaries on your mam. You'll be aware you're doing it but she will not and therefore will be unable to fight back.
I did this with my own mam and now she is where I am comfortable having her - not the other way around.
It works, trust me and you'll be all the happier for it.

mashedbanana

Thank you i'll google it, and enquire into it too. It's a bit like trying to double bluff her so! Sounds like a good idea thank you :-)

whatdoicare

mashedbanana wrote: »

Thank you i'll google it, and enquire into it too. It's a bit like trying to double bluff her so! Sounds like a good idea this Thank you :-)

No problem at all - it's not really like calling her bluff, there'll be no conflict - this is how she controls you and I know myself that what you really wish you could do is march up to her and tell her to cop on but none of that is going to work, you're just putting yourself in a situation that your mam is comfortable in
...it's, well, it's like when you try to teach a child not to touch the hot oven - what you'll basically be doing is showing her what you think is an appropriate way to behave in your company and that if she does it this way she'll be rewarded by maybe seeing you more or getting to see your kids or similar and at the same time showing her that if she doesn't behave she'll face the consequences of her own actions - not seeing you etc etc

Your counsellor will help you to take the emotional aspect out of the situation and show you how to build the walls you need to protect yourself from her - metaphorically speaking.
It's hard work and takes a while but the rewards are great.

username123

Can only agree with the other posters. I have had to estrange myself from my parents - a lunatic alcoholic (my father) and my massively co-dependant mother - so toxic you wouldnt believe - so I estranged myself. They died while I was still estranged and I was just relieved.

My brother (from such a toxic upbringing) is a complete dysfunctional influence who refuses to admit his upbringing affected him. Ive done years of counselling and group therapy and worked on myself - he wont even see there is a problem so I had to detach from him as well.

So now Ive no family Im in contact with except one auntie who I talk to a couple of times a year and my life is much the better for it.

You dont have to live with toxic, dysfunctional, negative influences in your life. Its much nicer to set yourself free!

LegacyUser

Did you read my diaries?

Toxic...just step back and read your post aloud to yourself in a safe quiet place. Then walk away and forgive.

One life and it is short. Your recall and the way you write is incredible. I am watching BBC4 docu about Edna O Brien docu...we (many of us share the same pain) but believe me there is another choice.

Make it tonight. Go out and live it and have more than 1 happy day in 365 be it Christmas Day or not.

LegacyUser

op, i really feel for you, and you weren't the only person to have such a mother. there's a lot of similarities between my childhood and yours - a lot. so much so i was cringing at the start and had shed a tear at the end.

i'm not here to tell you whether you should estrange yourself from her, but i will tell you that i think you should seek out a book called ''healing trauma'' by dr peter levine, and another called 'coping with your difficult older parent - a guide for stressed out children'. you can find them on amazon or the book depository. from my own personal experience in dealing with a traumatic childhood, as well as going to the national councelling service (you can self refer but there is a waiting list) they've been a great help. makes the ''after all i've done for ye'' comments much easier to deal with, and you'll be able to take back control of your own life again.

hugs, and the best of luck to you xxx

Karen8

I feel so sorry for all your childhood forgive her. Somebody hurt her too.

Beruthiel

mashedbanana wrote: »

Any advice on how to handle her....anything?

Stop handling her would be my advice.
I have no clue why, at this stage of your adult live, you continue to allow someone that nasty in your life.
I understand she is your mother, but, so what?
If this was a friend you would have dumped their ass years ago.
A blood tie is no more than that and does not automatically grant you access to treat your child like dirt and get away with it.
You reap what you sow in this life, cut her off and don't feel one jot guilty about it either.

ManOfMystery

I don't often say this about people as I'm generally inclined to think there's a little bit of good in everybody and there's always hope for improvement/change ........................ but this woman is a disease.

Since you were born, she has infected your life and irrepairably changed it for the worse. Physical violence, mental abuse, a climate of fear, a complete inability to treat her family with any love or respect at all, and so on.

There is a cure for this disease, and you have it in you. You only have to walk away. Ignore her, don't take her calls, don't see her, don't write to her, don't communicate with her, don't even consider her. Cut her out of your life completely.

You owe this woman nothing, despite what she may say. A good mother will show her children love and respect, and be someone they can turn to when they need her. Someone they can trust. This woman has never been a good mother to you. When you were a child, you unfortunately had no choice in the matter, but you're a grown woman now and are fully capable of saying who you want to be in your life. You chose your husband because you wanted him in your life; why not do the reverse, and choose not to have this vile, toxic woman in your future?

I know it's not easy, but think of it like this. If you have children, would you leave them with her for a weekend? Would you want them to go through what you did? Would you consider that a good way to treat them? If you wouldn't expose them to her, then there's no reason that you need to expose yourself to her any longer either.

DeltaWhite

Karen8 wrote: »

I feel so sorry for all your childhood forgive her. Somebody hurt her too.

So what if she was "hurt" she had a DUTY to look after her kids and not abuse them for their whole lives. I would cut her out and I would find a backbone immediately to do it...

My mother had a terrible upbringing - absolutely shocking. And she is my hero, I wouldnt trade her for anything. She was the best mother I could have asked for - even though she was hurt very badly as a child. Not a good enough excuse IMO

curlzy

Cut contact OP, and NEVER EVER feel guilty about it. Hopefully she'll die first and you can bring your dad to live with you. I know he should have protected you but I feel really sorry for him too.

Wise up, cut contact.

mashedbanana

Karen8 wrote: »

I feel so sorry for all your childhood forgive her. Somebody hurt her too.

She was raised an only child. Her mother was a grafter, her dad didnt work (at all) but he doted on her. Her father spoilt her, with his time not financially, cos they didnt have the money. Her mother was also the 'tough love' type, again verbally/physically abusive.

She treated her himself badly, my mother resented her for that. Until the day my grandmother died, my mother was eternally sared of her.

My mother has turned into her mother. Everything she didnt receive (emotionally) as a child growing up, she has sucked out of us. She wasn't spoilt by her own mother/loved/hugged. So expected to be praised/adored by her own children ( whom she always viewed as'her propery). God forbid those of us born that didn't look like her side of the family.

My grandmother could put the fear of God in anyone, especially my mother. Mam once confessed (must have had a moment of weakness) that her mother never showed her love, so how could she show us love? I nearly swallowed the phone when I heard that, cos my kids are SICK of me constantly kissing them, hugging them and genarally mortifying them with love. How come I knew how to love, and she didn't?

I suppose we choose to be bitter,resentful, jealous (in her case of what the neighbours have) or we choose to make the best of what we have. As dreadful as this sounds, and God forgive me, but knowing my luck, she'll live till 102..... just to make sure we don't get too big for our boots, and end up having a happy life..

RossFixxxed

I think you know at this stage that cutting her out is the only real way to go at this point. It's increasingly apparent as you post. She is a tumour in your life at this point, and it pains me to say that about anyone's mother. She needs to be surgically removed from your life. There is no need for fanfare or drama, just sever contact and walk away.

Don't let your life get dragged down to her level. You have your own kids now and they are number one. I doubt they need a caustic presence in their lives either tbh.

mashedbanana

RossFixxxed wrote: »

I think you know at this stage that cutting her out is the only real way to go at this point. It's increasingly apparent as you post. She is a tumour in your life at this point, and it pains me to say that about anyone's mother. She needs to be surgically removed from your life. There is no need for fanfare or drama, just sever contact and walk away.

Don't let your life get dragged down to her level. You have your own kids now and they are number one. I doubt they need a caustic presence in their lives either tbh.

Ya, I know what you mean. She has very limited contact with them anyway. Only in my presence. She shows affection (I can't say love) But in all the years of having g/kids she has never had them for a night/sleep over. Always made some excuse, not that I ever encouraged it!

But for the grandkids that look like the wrong side of the family, oh they are totally pushed aside and ignored, when they were born she'd come to the hospital and glare into the cots, and if she didnt like what she saw, then she'd tell you straight. 'hmmm, doesn't look anything like our side' 'Isn't he very common looking' and of course would go on to nit-pic at our mothering skills. Told us to always leave a crying child, no matter what. That they were 'too cute (sly)' We never did take this advice, as much as it frustrated her. When one of the younger grandchildren were born, they were very sickly, to the point of starvation, as the child couldn't take the formula. Must have been alergic to it or something. ..anyway, she said that 'She' could feed the baby, and asked what all the bloody fuss was about, what the child couldn't/wouldn't take the bottle, mam said 'God, she's a dogmatic little thing isn't she? Why is she so defiant'??? I think the child was about 3 weeks old at the time. we always knew never to leave the kids with her alone, nor she never offered. t'would be too much hard work for her. dreadful.

Sleepy

To put it quite simple, learn to tell her to **** off out of your life and leave her there. You don't need her in your life and I'd bet a weeks wages that once you cut contact, you'll find one or more of your siblings following suit.

Don't feel guilty about this: she's a horrible human being who deserves to be alone.

LegacyUser

I have an abusive mother.

I have trimmed contact to cards at birthdays, Christmas etc., and nothing more, because I can't handle more.

I am not vicious. So I do not wish to viciously cut her out.

But I am not a doormat and by doing this, I have stopped her from having influence in my life, and the potential to hurt me.

She hates it and does not speak to me at all: that is her choice.

When I did this, I grieved for about 6 months. It still hurts. Not that I've lost her - but for what I've never had. The love of a mother.

It is still worth it.

I hope for improvement some day, but not at any cost. Any relationship would have to be on my terms.

In the mean time I am working on forgiving her.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

DeltaWhite

Have to say OP you seem like you have a great head on your shoulders - you didnt get that from your Mother and that's for sure. Well done you, being a great mammy to your kids and that's one good thing that you can say has come out of all of this - you know how to be a proper Mam and not like herself. I really really think you should stand up to her. You need to erase your fears, she may say horrible things and be really mean, but she's a sad, angry old woman and from your posts I get the feeling you will never turn out like that

username123

yes I know wrote: »

I have an abusive mother.........................................I hope this helps. Good luck.

What a lovely thoughtful post.

Its rare to see a thread where literally everyone agrees, and OP, I hope it helps you to know that others have gone through or are going through similar and that its ok to cut contact. Its an empowering notion that you are actually allowed to walk away from a family member who is toxic.

LegacyUser

aw op your explanation of your mother's relationship with her mother makes sooooo much sense to me, it really does, i'm nodding away here. my mother was abandoned by her mother, and only got back in contact later in life so she also wasn't shown any love or what the love of a mother means. it's mad isn't it, how that cycle can repeat itself? but listen, you should feel SO proud of yourself for going the other way. feel proud that you're showering your own kids with hugs and kisses, just think how brilliant they'll feel when they're older and are able to look back. as for your question as to how you're able to do that and she wasnt? well it's a classic case of how people deal with that kind of thing in life, we either repeat it or reject it. you're being a fantasic mother, hold your head up high and be proud of that and focus on it. the more you walk towards that the easier it will be to walk away from your mother's toxic behaviour. big hugs x

IrishEyes19

OP, I normally would never say this because I believe family are the most important people in your life. you only have one! But this woman is a scourge in your life. She made your childhood miserable and seems intent on doing so in your adult life as well. I dont think you can reason with her, it doesnt sound like she is open to any form of communication or talking things over! I would simply tell her, you are cutting her out of your life, that she has made your life hell and that you can no longer deal with her. I know its hard because family is family, but she is poison! I hope you could still have a relationship with your father, but I understand it would be problematic with her in the home.

Abi

Karen8 wrote: »

I feel so sorry for all your childhood forgive her. Somebody hurt her too.

I have to say that only holds so much water.. if you've been hurt or damaged you don't transfer that onto your kids. She needs help, it's her responsibility to get counselling or whatever. Why bring children into the world if you're going to take it all out on them?

mashedbanana wrote: »

Ya, I know what you mean. She has very limited contact with them anyway. Only in my presence. She shows affection (I can't say love) But in all the years of having g/kids she has never had them for a night/sleep over. Always made some excuse, not that I ever encouraged it!

I don't advise that you do either, given what you've been through. I wouldn't leave them alone with her in the same room if I were you. It's not often you will get advice to cut family out of your life in PI, but if ever there was a time this is it. This woman was clearly never cut out to have children, but she did, and took her problems out on her own children.

You had no childhood because of this despicable excuse for a human being, DO NOT let her effect your life any more. She has nothing positive to add to it, shes is shockingly toxic. I was open mouthed the whole time reading your post, but the bit about flinging sanitary towels into the fire in front of you all, and unashamedly having affairs... there are words for this woman I have but I'll bite my tongue out of respect for you.

Remove her from yours and your families life before she can do any further damage.

mashedbanana

Well today was a special day for me (my birthday, oh well....one year older) So the obligatory argument followed. I saw the number coming up on the mobile and thought to myself, whats the worse that could happen? Maybe she is only ringing to wish me a happy birthday. Well, the call started off nice and eventually went sour. I knew I was in trouble when she said 'I want to ask you about something you mention' this was her way of telling me she had a gripe about something and wanted clarity regardless if it was draging up the past. My husband and i were having 'issues' a while back, and she keeps throwing that nugget in my face, god forbid we'd be allowed to forget about it...

She went on to tell me about the time my MIL and her had a 'clash of opinions' many many years ago (over a decade), well this was rehashed to me again today. As if I could forget it an needed telling for the 100th time. She's living in the past holding grudges till the grave, and of course as a result the ONLY person that calls to them other then the post man is the neighbour that collects the church envelops. She has no life, and wants to be in, on ours.

My MIL & her have had many a 'comversation', and that didn't help the situation either. The MIL was worried that I'd turn out like her, you see. But today she went on & on about how much of a good mother she was to us. The more frustrated I got the louder I got. I told her that she is living in the past, is jealous, & paranoid. She didnt like that. I told her that I'm pulling back from the family (her) cos I can't take it anymore (please keep in mind my kids were listenin in the back ground). Anyway, she said 'do as you please, but I hope you can live with yourself in years to come when we aren't around' i said ya ya, whatever, we ended the call, with her demanding a big Thank you for the card I got in the post this morning....

The major issues with my MIL was that mams reputation was so bad, she was afraid for her son to marry me. I can't blame her. But there were times she was more then harsh on me, and my mother uses this, as bullets on me at every oportunity.

I can't thank everyone enough for all ye're support, I never thought in a million years that I'd get this level of help on such a personal issue xx

mashedbanana

Abi wrote: »

I have to say that only holds so much water.. if you've been hurt or damaged you don't transfer that onto your kids. She needs help, it's her responsibility to get counselling or whatever. Why bring children into the world if you're going to take it all out on them?



I don't advise that you do either, given what you've been through. I wouldn't leave them alone with her in the same room if I were you. It's not often you will get advice to cut family out of your life in PI, but if ever there was a time this is it. This woman was clearly never cut out to have children, but she did, and took her problems out on her own children.

You had no childhood because of this despicable excuse for a human being, DO NOT let her effect your life any more. She has nothing positive to add to it, shes is shockingly toxic. I was open mouthed the whole time reading your post, but the bit about flinging sanitary towels into the fire in front of you all, and unashamedly having affairs... there are words for this woman I have but I'll bite my tongue out of respect for you.

Remove her from yours and your families life before she can do any further damage.

Thank you, she used to go for coffee with one of the wives of these men (friends of dad) and meet the men later on in the week. She KNEW people were talking, but when the term 'common whore' was used OooOOhhhHH she didn't like that at all, And sent solicitors letters to people for slander.

Every one knew then what type of woman/mother they were dealing with, i have actually seen people ducking & diving into shop doors to avoid her!

It didnt matter that she was seen in cars chatting to these men for 2/3 hours. People knew she was married with kids, they must have wondered 'where are her kids?'. As kids we thought THIS was normal, until the eldest realised ...this ain't right... confronted her, as then the Sh*t hit the fan! It was the absolute starting line for the abuse to begin. Dad (before he got sick & elderly) was working away alot you see.


It's almost as if she lived in a world of her own, made her own rules to suit herself, with no regard for us, or what the public were REALLY thinking about her. It all came back to bite her on the ass.

What she considered to be important to her (in her younger days) well, all that is gone now. The 'friends' are gone, the style is gone, the coffee mornings. She has nothing left. We are all grown up, and no she wants us to include her in our lives. It's not happening for her, so the guilt trips start. 'No one calls to see us' 'we;re not useful anymore to anyone' 'we're alienated' blah blah bah.

Abi

mashedbanana wrote: »

Well today was a special day for me (my birthday, oh well....one year older)

Genuinely, happy birthday. I hope you've had a nice day outside of the phone call below! x

So the obligatory argument followed. I saw the number coming up on the mobile and thought to myself, whats the worse that could happen? Maybe she is only ringing to wish me a happy birthday. Well, the call started off nice and eventually went sour. I knew I was in trouble when she said 'I want to ask you about something you mention' this was her way of telling me she had a gripe about something and wanted clarity regardless if it was draging up the past. My husband and i were having 'issues' a while back, and she keeps throwing that nugget in my face, god forbid we'd be allowed to forget about it...

She went on to tell me about the time my MIL and her had a 'clash of opinions' many many years ago (over a decade), well this was rehashed to me again today. As if I could forget it an needed telling for the 100th time. She's living in the past holding grudges till the grave, and of course as a result the ONLY person that calls to them other then the post man is the neighbour that collects the church envelops. She has no life, and wants to be in, on ours.

My MIL & her have had many a 'comversation', and that didn't help the situation either. The MIL was worried that I'd turn out like her, you see. But today she went on & on about how much of a good mother she was to us. The more frustrated I got the louder I got. I told her that she is living in the past, is jealous, & paranoid. She didnt like that. I told her that I'm pulling back from the family (her) cos I can't take it anymore (please keep in mind my kids were listenin in the back ground). Anyway, she said 'do as you please, but I hope you can live with yourself in years to come when we aren't around' i said ya ya, whatever, we ended the call, with her demanding a big Thank you for the card I got in the post this morning....

Disgustingly obvious manipulation... sweet jesus. She is undoubtedly trying to destroy your marriage, get the hell away from her, or she will cost you the only happiness that you've ever known.

The major issues with my MIL was that mams reputation was so bad, she was afraid for her son to marry me. I can't blame her. But there were times she was more then harsh on me, and my mother uses this, as bullets on me at every oportunity.

Anyone would be afraid for what their son was marrying into with a mother like that. But you're his wife now, and a mother of her grandchildren. you do not deserve that label.

mashedbanana wrote: »

Thank you, she used to go for coffee with one of the wives of these men (friends of dad) and meet the men later on in the week. She KNEW people were talking, but when the term 'common whore' was used OooOOhhhHH she didn't like that at all, And sent solicitors letters to people for slander.

Every one knew then what type of woman/mother they were dealing with, i have actually seen people ducking & diving into shop doors to avoid her!

It didnt matter that she was seen in cars chatting to these men for 2/3 hours. People knew she was married with kids, they must have wondered 'where are her kids?'. As kids we thought THIS was normal, until the eldest realised ...this ain't right... confronted her, as then the Sh*t hit the fan! It was the absolute starting line for the abuse to begin. Dad (before he got sick & elderly) was working away alot you see.


It's almost as if she lived in a world of her own, made her own rules to suit herself, with no regard for us, or what the public were REALLY thinking about her. It all came back to bite her on the ass.

What she considered to be important to her (in her younger days) well, all that is gone now. The 'friends' are gone, the style is gone, the coffee mornings. She has nothing left. We are all grown up, and no she wants us to include her in our lives. It's not happening for her, so the guilt trips start. 'No one calls to see us' 'we;re not useful anymore to anyone' 'we're alienated' blah blah bah.

I'm sorry hon, but the more I read the more my heart drops for you. some buzz words going about in my head is crude, lazy, <insert bad word for unfaithful woman>. I do feel so sorry for you.

My mother wears the trousers in my parents home, always has. But she is a paranoid, manipulative woman. She is the eldest of her lot and got a hard time, made to leave school early to work etc. I won't go into too much detail but my mother more or less did the same thing to me. If I was going to be told that was the end of my education that I'll work all right, but the money is going in my pocket and I'm not putting up with her shít any more. With savings of my own I created a new life and went on to 3rd level education.

While I do have an on/off relationship with her, she is a lot of work. Forever trying to put me down. her comments mean nothing to me, because what she says is purely because saw me getting ahead in life, and when I came to the age she was made to leave school I think jealousy and resentment came in. Its like water off a ducks back to me now, because I know why she says and does what she does. I don't excuse it or tolerate it though. I'll pick her up on it and she wont hear from me for a long time. Eventually I'll answer the phone because I miss and want to see my father.

What you've gone through, quite a few women (and men) can pick out elements of what your mother is and can see it in their own mothers. what makes your case different is, your mother makes our mothers look like Mary Poppins. Your contact with her is feeding her, giving her control over you. Can you see what I mean?

Theres been strong support for you on this thread to cut contact hon, I suggest you take the advice. I know it's hard because at the back of your mind the 'family link' makes it hard to cut off, but shes not a normal mother. She's not a normal grandmother. shes trying to split up your marriage. There is a rot in the family and its her.

mashedbanana

I think that as we got older she attempted to buy us. We were all gone from home, she has no mortgage on the house. It was willed to her. So now its just themselves at home and they have the OAP. So there is extra cash there. But the obligation is huge. She put 50 quid into the card for me. To be honest it wouldn matter if she handed me a checque for a million euro, the damage is done.

She nows we all dote on daddy, shes gonna use that against that. Even wth my husbands input, he reminded me that she always seemed jealous that we loved daddy so much. He was an enabler, but he himself had a very bad start in life, and never believed in hurting a child, yet didnt have the backbone to stand up to her when she beat us. He'd sit in his chair & cry, and then say 'thats enough now mam'.

i think she feels that because she gave birth to us, then there shoudl be an automatic entitlement to our love & compassion. Even respect, (which we know at this stage is something that has to be earned)

I have never known any one like her, she is so calculating. She can plan out a scenario/situation to ALWAYS work to her advantage.

She threw it up to me one day that i went through 4 school uniforms during secondary school ( I did 4th year, so 6 years in total)
That comment in particular pissed me off, cos my kids have 3 uniforms each, 1 on, 1 in the wash, 1 for spare.

But she genuinley thought that if we could go to secondary school, then we were spoilt. Forget looking for a bit of make-up to go to a disco. All the clothes I had were age in-appropriate (a 15 year old wearing something you'd put on an 11 year old, from the last century nearly) I'd be mortified. She knew as I got older that I'd go out on a proper night out (always while staying at a friends house) yet she'd never hand me as much as a fiver for the night. We weren't allowed to get little part time jobs 'in case the neighbours thought we had nothing' so we relied on our friends.

She'd have style though. Some of her friends would give her some really nice clothes, and even though our clothes would be clean,they were never anything that we liked. they relied on social welfare once dad got sick, which must be at least 20 years. She used to do a little bit of housework work but nothing too stressful I can assure you. so she'd spend her days gardening, and reading Irelands own.

One of the major issues we all had with her was that, she'd wake us for primary school at 10 to 9 in the morning, we lived less then a mile from the school, but school started at 20 past nine! not that teeth ashing was a big deal to her, but to be up and dressed and AWAKE and in school in half an hour? She'd drop us off then go home and back into bed! No wonder the house was dirty. She'd be awake till 4 am reading books you see (library books, maeve binchy and the likes) so no wonder she couldnt get up in the morning. She stay in the hammock till around half 2, then come to collect us at ten past 3. No dinner ready, Fire just lit, house old & dirty. But she thought that she was the bestest.....cos she wasn't a drinker or a smoker ( like such & such over the road)

Anther one of her disgusting traits, she's constantly judging everyone. But has great time for the fella that can't keep it in his pants (well it must be his wifes fault!!!!!!). Well when that fella left his wife and moved in a girlfriend tht my mother showed obvious dislike to, all hell broke lose! Imagine telling someone else who they can or can live with. What makes it worse is that that particular man ( snake in the grass) is well into his 50's!!!! But mother thought she could control him too. Shes mad for the racy story, or the latest sca... She has a very distinctve voice, so when she is whispering, she can still be heard in the next world. She talks constantly, without drawing a breath. Hense I ADORE silence. I'm one of those gals that loves the 'awkward silence' I love peace & quiet. I rarely argue with my hubby, and if I do I can't sleep until it's resolved. I'm a softy, and like to forgive & forget (except with her) like the time she said 'I was never as heavy as you when I was your age' I had all my kids at that stage, and not overly big, maybe a size 16. She on the other hand has always had an arse you could mount a shelf on....... Amazingly it's more important for her to be right, then to be loved.

So sorry to be dragging the daylights outa this, but it seems to be very theraputic for me......Thank god i can speed type x

CathyMoran

OP please get away from her - she sounds horrific and she is not a good example to your children.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, I was playing a game with my 4 year old and his friend today. We were driving to someone's house. I said I wished I was a kid so that I could play with them & all the toys. They both laughed and told me I was too big. So then I said I could be the mammy, and they could be the kids, and I could give out and say (in a mock cross voice) "get up those stairs and don't play with any toys".

My 4 year old said "NO! You can't say that to your kids. Mammies aren't mean, they're nice".

You don't have to handle it. You ignore her. You don't answer your phone. If she leaves a voicemail delete it before you listen to it. She will never change. She will never be the 'nice mammy'. She will always be mean. You can not ever change her.

If someone (anyone) was treating one of your kids like this, what would you do? Just because she's your mother doesn't grant her any special 'rights'. Nobody has the right to humiliate another person. She is wrong. But you are also wrong to allow it to continue.

Walk away. Today.

LegacyUser

i'm so glad you've gotten something from this thread. it can be a lonely place having this sort of toxic relationship in your life, even more so when its a family member and even more than that when it's your own mother.

and i know it's after midnight and i'm late but happy birthday!

daisybelle2008

mashedbanana wrote: »

So sorry to be dragging the daylights outa this, but it seems to be very theraputic for me......Thank god i can speed type x

Hi OP, I am gonna give you a slightly different view.

Is this really truly ‘therapeutic’ for you? You are frustrated with your mother and looking for mental ammunition to justify this frustration all the while maintaining a relationship with her. Mulling over and reliving your past in the negative tiny detail you are doing is like rooting around in a bucket of **** with your bare hands and hoping to find gold.

Why would you maintain this passive aggressive relationship with someone that you have so much unresolved hostility towards? And keep digging around in a past that adds to this hostility. You are bruising yourself with this.

She is who she is, is not going to change. You cannot change her only your attitude towards her. If your attitude towards her cannot be positive then you are always going to be unhappy dealing with her.

You judge her badly as a mother and cannot make peace with that. Going over every tiny detail of the past is never going to give you peace. It is only going to bring it to life and add to your stress. Honestly.

I know this might seem insane but it is actually possible for your mother in your life and to have a decent relationship with her. But right now you are in a limbo as long as you have hostility towards her and yet are maintaining a relationship with her.

mashedbanana

voiceofreasonhere wrote: »

i'm so glad you've gotten something from this thread. it can be a lonely place having this sort of toxic relationship in your life, even more so when its a family member and even more than that when it's your own mother.

and i know it's after midnight and i'm late but happy birthday![/QUO

Thank you so much.xx

mashedbanana

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

Hi OP, I am gonna give you a slightly different view.

Is this really truly ‘therapeutic’ for you? You are frustrated with your mother and looking for mental ammunition to justify this frustration all the while maintaining a relationship with her. Mulling over and reliving your past in the negative tiny detail you are doing is like rooting around in a bucket of **** with your bare hands and hoping to find gold.

Why would you maintain this passive aggressive relationship with someone that you have so much unresolved hostility towards? And keep digging around in a past that adds to this hostility. You are bruising yourself with this.

She is who she is, is not going to change. You cannot change her only your attitude towards her. If your attitude towards her cannot be positive then you are always going to be unhappy dealing with her.

You judge her badly as a mother and cannot make peace with that. Going over every tiny detail of the past is never going to give you peace. It is only going to bring it to life and add to your stress. Honestly.

I know this might seem insane but it is actually possible for your mother in your life and to have a decent relationship with her. But right now you are in a limbo as long as you have hostility towards her and yet are maintaining a relationship with her.

Well it like alot of things when it's down on paper (typed on the screen) it's out there...and easier for me. Might not work for everyone, but works for me. I do find it therapeutic.

I am 'trying' to distance myself from her, hense the origianl post not continue a toxic relationship with an abuser(yes I answered the phone yesterday, maybe part of me wanted to think it was my dad on the other end)

I know she is who she is, and will never change, i HAVE changed my attitude towards her, but that doesn't seem to suit either, she'll just keep poking at me.

I have of course judged her badly, I wouldn't have thought I was going over every little detail, these were regular daily details, and not what I would consider nitpicking (looking for everything I can't find to throw at her) God, I could go a hell of alot deeper. If I bury these thoughts & feelings then they It will bury me. You might feel that going over details is stressful, but I don't want to bury my head n the sand anymore, and live in La La land.

How would you suggest I have a 'decent'relationship with her? Divorce my husband, beat my kids ( to suit her) because as she would say herself 'Children should be seen and not heard' be on the 'scratcher' for the rest of my days? Cos thats the only way that she is ever gonna calm down to a normal level. Once she gets everything her own way, in other words.

So would you recommend, I deal with my hostility, and then approach her again, feeling less hurt/angry/abused/ and then maybe we can have a decent relationship?

Defiler Of The Coffin

mashedbanana wrote: »

So would you recommend, I deal with my hostility, and then approach her again, feeling less hurt/angry/abused/ and then maybe we can have a decent relationship?

I'm sorry to say it mashedbanana but I don't think you will ever have a decent relationship with your mother at this stage, at least not one where both of you are happy. You've basically said this yourself. She's far too set in her ways and it is unlikely she will ever placate you or put other people before herself. You need to accept this and not let yourself be disappointed at the way things have turned out. It isn't your fault and you deserve a happy life of your own. You need to be strong about this otherwise things will be miserable for you.

a posse ad esse

I think going over things in this thread has been therapeutic. I also think you have to learn to let go at some point because if you don't it has potential to poison you. You know what your mother has done in the past, what she is doing now and what she is capable of. Unfortunately, you cannot change these things or the relationship you have with her. She seems stuck in her own ways and does not seem to have the capacity to change. One thing from these experiences is that you have empathy. You have learned why she does the things that she does which in a way can help you move on. You cannot change your mother but you can change you which you have done well so far. Changing the way you interact with her (not interacting any longer-if you so choose). You can learn to change any negative emotional reaction whenever you think about her by not letting past and present hurts bother you. This is very hard but its all part of healing.

Forgiveness helps people move from the past, live for today and their future. It doesn't necessarily mean there is reconciliation or a relationship with your mother. It is simply learning to let go and move on with your life and focus on you, your husband and children. I have met many who forgave the unthinkable. A friend who forgave her brother for sexually abusing her, an entire community in Pennsylvania that forgave the man that murdered their daughters at a school. Just the other day I watched a programme where a father forgave the man who murdered his son. For these people, forgiveness was learning to let go. Acts of forgiveness does not absolve the perpetrator from their wrong doings; it helps victims heal and move on with their lives. Remaining angry which is easier to do can turn toxic. Anger makes one sick and most of all puts the power back into perpetrator, you are letting them win and take over. Letting go removes that power and helps gain closure. You will never forget what your mother has done to you but with closure you can move on. Your mother has taught you one of the most important lessons in life. She taught you to not be like her. That is something to be thankful for.

daisybelle2008

mashedbanana wrote: »

Well it like alot of things when it's down on paper (typed on the screen) it's out there...and easier for me. Might not work for everyone, but works for me. I do find it therapeutic.

I am 'trying' to distance myself from her, hense the origianl post not continue a toxic relationship with an abuser(yes I answered the phone yesterday, maybe part of me wanted to think it was my dad on the other end)

I know she is who she is, and will never change, i HAVE changed my attitude towards her, but that doesn't seem to suit either, she'll just keep poking at me.

I have of course judged her badly, I wouldn't have thought I was going over every little detail, these were regular daily details, and not what I would consider nitpicking (looking for everything I can't find to throw at her) God, I could go a hell of alot deeper. If I bury these thoughts & feelings then they It will bury me. You might feel that going over details is stressful, but I don't want to bury my head n the sand anymore, and live in La La land.

How would you suggest I have a 'decent'relationship with her? Divorce my husband, beat my kids ( to suit her) because as she would say herself 'Children should be seen and not heard' be on the 'scratcher' for the rest of my days? Cos thats the only way that she is ever gonna calm down to a normal level. Once she gets everything her own way, in other words.

So would you recommend, I deal with my hostility, and then approach her again, feeling less hurt/angry/abused/ and then maybe we can have a decent relationship?

You are putting your mother in a very powerful position by digging up the past. You become the victim. Whether you speak to her not, the hostility and negativity will be there. The key is to become indifferent towards her.
Wanting and needing her to be different is not going to work well.
She most certainly won't calm down to normal levels if you divorce your husband and beat your kids. Modifying your behaviour as you do when dealing with her is not helping the situation.
Not caring what she does takes away all her power over you. And you can have her in your life or not under those circumstances.
But really letting go of the past 100% is required. You cannot have a victim mentality going forward.the more you rehash it the more circles you go round in.
I am not a big fan of the whole 'forgiveness' route either. You have to lose all judgements about your mother to be indifferent. Realise she is a product of her conditioning and ****ty upbringing and did the best she could (this is hard I know). Forget about feeling she could have done better ( you don't apply this to your father for some reason just her). She did what she did and your hostility won't change that or give you peace.
If you cannot move on and see her as a flawed human no better or worse than everyone else then she owns you.

Sorcha16

It's all very well for people to suggest moving on but moving on from any relationship is a process and not something that happens overnight, simply because you decide to.

We all have so many complex emotions tangled up in our relationships and it can take a while to unravel that knot before the strings of our heart are straightened again.

Take your time OP. I'm happy to empathise and read with you if you're happy to write

LegacyUser

I have been following this thread and am really sad for you that you have to deal with all this. Life is too short ...


You are her daughter and she "loves" you in her own (horrific) way which is very hell for you to handle and decide upon I am sure.

It is hard to burn bridges with your family, especially if you want to keep some kind of contact with your father.

To me, she seems to be like an exaggerated/extreme case of a tantrum-y child in a sweet shop. How about, every time she looks for confrontation or adopts an inappropriate behaviour, instead of keeping up with it/trying to change her views, you walk away or hang up telling her firmly that you are not going to entertain her.
She might learn a little out of this.

But maybe she is too far "gone" in her ego-centric ways to see it.

In any case, I wish you the very best of luck in the future. It's tough and remember that you are number one and you need to look after yourself. Stress is bad for you and life is short and only once.

mashedbanana

mashedbanana wrote: »

So would you recommend, I deal with my hostility, and then approach her again, feeling less hurt/angry/abused/ and then maybe we can have a decent relationship?

OP, nothing you can do will bring about a decent relationship with her. It's not about you, it's about her. Becoming as laid back as possible and all sunshine and happiness is not going to change a thing she does, says, or feels. You can't change her, not by changing yourself, not by anything you can do, not ever.
What you need to do is cut off contact, continue dealing with the hostility and see a therapist, and move on with your life.

lukesmom

Completely cut contact with her but before you do...,.

Handwrite her a letter telling her how you feel you cannot possibly continue having her in your life anymore. Suggest that SHE goes to therapy to get HERSELF sorted and if she decides to properly get help from professionals, only then she can correspond with you by letter not phone or in person. You do not want to hear her toxic words in person or by telephone.

It's worth a try and it's on your terms plus you don't ever have to listen to her but you can always choose to open a letter or not.

Best of luck my heart goes out to you

RossFixxxed

I wouldn't even write her an explanation to be honest, it's just more fodder and drama for her. Just cut contact and focus on yourself, your children, your husband and your future. Take your life back!

The Corinthian

My heart goes out to you... I agree that breaking contact is probably what is best for both you and your family at this stage. Counselling too is an excellent idea.

I think you are both fortunate, and it is a testament to your character, that you didn't grow up to be like her - I've seen this happen a few times; same negative relationship with the mother, but ironically as adults become just like her (increasingly so with age).

The only thing - loose end, if you will - is your father though, as breaking contact with her may effectively force a break of contact with him, and I don't know if you want that. Of course, you need not break contact with him, but it will require that he puts in effort to keep it up clandestinely. If he can't do that, there's not much you can do.

Have you considered this?

Merkin

Your posts make for such sad reading, you poor girl As with other types of abuse, emotional abuse can be self-perpetuating so if you continue to accept the abuse and deny the very real impact that this will continue to have on your life and ultimately ignore your inner self so much that it can continue and "spill over" into your own relationships. I'm not for a moment saying that this is an inevitablity but this ongoing cycle of abuse (because she continues to abuse you, even though it's a less obvious but just as insidious) won't just suddenly stop and likewise you can't just draw a line and forget it ever happened.

I'm not one to wave the counselling flag at every opportunity but I think you should really seek the help of a qualified professional. I think cutting her out of your life is the very best thing to do but regardless of how cruel and nasty and awful and abusive she is, you will possibly feel some remorse or grief in doing so. Preparing yourself for such an event and talking through matters with someone really trained to listen and help could allow you to cut her out of your life but also allow you to do so having dealt with all the pain that this woman has caused. This would also mean that the estrangement would be a clean break for you.

I'm family orientated and am blessed that I have such a supportive and loving unit. People say that you can't choose your family but, once you become a mature and independent adult then you actually can. Abuse comes in many different guises and whether someone sexually abuses you or beats seven shades of sh*t out of you or subjects you to years of emotional torment they are all just as corrosive and damaging and you my dear, do not have to put up with any of this any longer. None of this is your fault and you don't have to allow this woman to feature in your life anymore.

Please go and find a good counsellor who will help you reach a place where you will be happy to let go of a. your desperately sad past and b. your monster of a mother.

I wish you every happiness hon x

wendyhouse86

I had a similar childhood except it was my father who was horrible. I walked away 6 yrs ago, I gave him a piece of all the angry and frustration, everything he had done and said over the years

I have hated him all my life and couldnt wait to get away from him
Did the counselling, really helps, believe me, good family ( mothers side) and friends help also

Walk away from the vile woman, your life will be much happier althought it takes time x