Permanent TSB & Possible Fall Through

dufferlover

Hi all. I'm really hoping someone can offer some advice.

For the second time this year we went sale agreed on a house. First one fell through in March and I'm now terrified this one will too.

Here's the deal. Saw house a couple of times, put down an offer and had it accepted. Paid a booking deposit. Had the house valued for AIB. Got the ball rolling with our solicitor. Signed contracts. Last week the vendor signed and returned the contracts to our solicitor. Contract had a closing date of Friday, October 12, which is this Friday.
Now the vendor's solicitor is saying the vendor is waiting for the go ahead from Permanent TSB. Our solicitor is presuming they are in negative equity as they bought the property back in 2008 and he is amazed the vendor's solicitor allowed his client to sign contracts without having the go ahead from Permanent TSB, who have the title deeds of course. The vendors solicitor won't return any calls to our solicitor, who has tried to contact him on no less than five occasions now.

Come Monday we are homeless. We've handed in our notice and our current landlady has found new tenants who have paid over a deposit.

Can anyone offer advice? Does the fact that contracts are signed by both parties help us. Oh and also last Friday AIB, who we have our mortage with, released our funds to our solicitor, so we're good to go.

Very worried it's all gonna go t*ts up again

ABajaninCork

Have you tried speaking to the vendor direct to see what the story is? Perhaps they've supplied info to PTSB and they too are waiting on the bank.

dufferlover

I suspect that is the case alright ABajaninCork. Isn't it very strange that they signed and returned contracts without the go ahead from the bank?

We haven't spoken to the vendor. Would it not be strange to do that?

ABajaninCork

Not at all! You want the house -right? Speak direct to the vendor!!!

dufferlover

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Not at all! You want the house -right? Speak direct to the vendor!!!

You're right. Vendor's solicitor said he would call our guy first thing in the morning. If he hasn't done by 11am we're going to call the vendor. We need to get to the bottom of this because otherwise we'll have nowhere to live. Genuinely as we don't know anyone in the area and have all our stuff, including furniture packed up & ready to go!

Marcusm

Taking this at face value, the vendor's solicitor has acted very poorly as the transaction will involve him giving an undertaking to have the property conveyed to you free of the mortgage charge which PTSB seem not to have agreed to release. That's a serious screw up if he had not secured that from PTSB in advance.

ABajaninCork

Marcusm wrote: »

Taking this at face value, the vendor's solicitor has acted very poorly as the transaction will involve him giving an undertaking to have the property conveyed to you free of the mortgage charge which PTSB seem not to have agreed to release. That's a serious screw up if he had not secured that from PTSB in advance.

I agree. On the face of it, it doesn't look good. And the vendor's solicitors seem to be very slow to respond. But on the other hand, it could be that they in turn are waiting on the bank to release the deeds. Contracts have been signed and by the look of it should be exchanged this week,so he should've been leaning on the bank for ages.

I'm afraid the only way to find out is to call (or visit) the vendors direct, as it seems you can't get a straight answer from the solicitor.

Hope it works out for you. Keep us posted if you can.

dufferlover

Marcusm wrote: »

Taking this at face value, the vendor's solicitor has acted very poorly as the transaction will involve him giving an undertaking to have the property conveyed to you free of the mortgage charge which PTSB seem not to have agreed to release. That's a serious screw up if he had not secured that from PTSB in advance.

Exactly. I cannot fathom how any solicitor would let his client sign or return contracts without it being guaranteed from PTSB.
Perhaps myself & my husband are over reacting and the vendor's solicitor is just an ignorant individual who doesn't return phone calls. I know of the solicitor & he is very established and decades in business so I find it hard to believe he screwed up so badly!

Just had another read of the contract & it states: 'The property is subject to a mortgage in favour of Permanent TSB & the purchaser's solicitor shall accept the vendors solicitor's undertaking on closing to discharge the mortgage & to furnish a receipt in respect thereof together with the appropriate Land Registry fees.'

Marcusm

dufferlover wrote: »

Exactly. I cannot fathom how any solicitor would let his client sign or return contracts without it being guaranteed from PTSB.
Perhaps myself & my husband are over reacting and the vendor's solicitor is just an ignorant individual who doesn't return phone calls. I know of the solicitor & he is very established and decades in business so I find it hard to believe he screwed up so badly!

Just had another read of the contract & it states: 'The property is subject to a mortgage in favour of Permanent TSB & the purchaser's solicitor shall accept the vendors solicitor's undertaking on closing to discharge the mortgage & to furnish a receipt in respect thereof together with the appropriate Land Registry fees.'

fantastic; the vendor's solicitor has allowed his client to execute a contract which includes an undertaking that the solicitor procure the release of the mortgage. If the solicitor has not had any prior undertaking from PTSB it is grossly inappropriate as (s)he has no idea if it will be forthcoming. It would be interesting to see if the vendor has the ability to force the solicitor to procure the release which in extremis would involve the solicitor funding any negative equity! Instruct your solicitor to establish within 3 days whether an oral undertaking has been provided by PTSB; if not, i suspect you will have a substantial wait or a failed transaction. If the confirmation is not forthcoming, instruct your solicitor to file a complaint with the Law Society.

dufferlover

Marcusm wrote: »

dufferlover wrote: »

Exactly. I cannot fathom how any solicitor would let his client sign or return contracts without it being guaranteed from PTSB.
Perhaps myself & my husband are over reacting and the vendor's solicitor is just an ignorant individual who doesn't return phone calls. I know of the solicitor & he is very established and decades in business so I find it hard to believe he screwed up so badly!

Just had another read of the contract & it states: 'The property is subject to a mortgage in favour of Permanent TSB & the purchaser's solicitor shall accept the vendors solicitor's undertaking on closing to discharge the mortgage & to furnish a receipt in respect thereof together with the appropriate Land Registry fees.'

fantastic; the vendor's solicitor has allowed his client to execute a contract which includes an undertaking that the solicitor procure the release of the mortgage. If the solicitor has not had any prior undertaking from PTSB it is grossly inappropriate as (s)he has no idea if it will be forthcoming. It would be interesting to see if the vendor has the ability to force the solicitor to procure the release which in extremis would involve the solicitor funding any negative equity! Instruct your solicitor to establish within 3 days whether an oral undertaking has been provided by PTSB; if not, i suspect you will have a substantial wait or a failed transaction. If the confirmation is not forthcoming, instruct your solicitor to file a complaint with the Law Society.

Substantial wait?! F*ck that! There's a contract there, a legally binding document, that states a closing date of October 12. We've drew down our mortgage too. Our solicitor did mention we'd be within our rights to sue. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that all the same.

killers1

dufferlover wrote: »

Substantial wait?! F*ck that! There's a contract there, a legally binding document, that states a closing date of October 12. We've drew down our mortgage too. Our solicitor did mention we'd be within our rights to sue. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that all the same.

If the closing date in the contract passes all your solicitor can do is serve a 28 day completion notice on the vendor. I came across a similar case where we were just about to close and vendor revealed he needed banks permission to sell. It was resolved in 2 days and the sale went through so fingers crossed yours will work out the same way.

dufferlover

killers1 wrote: »

dufferlover wrote: »

Substantial wait?! F*ck that! There's a contract there, a legally binding document, that states a closing date of October 12. We've drew down our mortgage too. Our solicitor did mention we'd be within our rights to sue. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that all the same.

If the closing date in the contract passes all your solicitor can do is serve a 28 day completion notice on the vendor. I came across a similar case where we were just about to close and vendor revealed he needed banks permission to sell. It was resolved in 2 days and the sale went through so fingers crossed yours will work out the same way.

Cheers Killers & all you folks! Our solicitor spoke to the vendor's solicitor this morning. The situation is the same. They are waiting on PTSB. Rang EA, who in turn called the vendor. The vendor assured him that they have the go ahead but just waiting on paperwork. EA then told us best case scenario it will close on time, worst case it will take 3 weeks. How he can predict this is beyond me?? He was always full of horse manure anyway!
At this stage it looks like all we can do it find a storage unit for our things & find somewhere to stay temporarily, probably a B&B. Gonna be a nightmare money wise as in a few weeks we'll have our first mortgage repayment too.

dufferlover

Just to let you know guys the sale went through and we're in the new place so all my panic was for nothing! As I said we were supposed to close last Friday but just got held up until Tuesday of this week, which wasn't too bad at all! Thankfully PTSB got the finger out!

ABajaninCork

Fab news! Congrats and I hope you'll have many years of happiness in your new home.

killers1

dufferlover wrote: »

Just to let you know guys the sale went through and we're in the new place so all my panic was for nothing! As I said we were supposed to close last Friday but just got held up until Tuesday of this week, which wasn't too bad at all! Thankfully PTSB got the finger out!

That's great news well done! Best of luck in your new home!