Pay Rise for New Teachers!

dory · 08-10-2012 2:29pm #1

Just read on the ASTI magazine that new teachers are jumping from point 1 to point 4 of their new scale.

That means for a new entrant, who would often get about 12 hours a week work (seems the norm among all new teachers I know) they now go from €13,907 a year to just over €15,000. Paltry but at least it's a step in the right direction.

rainbowtrout · 08-10-2012 3:49pm

What is the basis of the jump?

Are they teachers who were started on point 1 last year (working with a teacher who is in that situation) but should have started on point 3 and were awaiting TC registration etc?

dory · 08-10-2012 4:04pm

Not sure of that. I know one girl with us who started this year is on Point 1 of the new scale and she'll now be on Point 4. It's on the front page of the most recent ASTIR magazine!

2011abc · 08-10-2012 4:04pm

Shamless misrepresentation by union-a slap in the face for those they represent.

Lord TSC · 08-10-2012 4:04pm

That's great.

Now if only I could find a job. :P

TheDriver · 08-10-2012 4:10pm

I believe its basically a new salary compensation idea instead of allowances........works out about the same 3 points on scale=honours allowance?

rainbowtrout · 08-10-2012 4:13pm

dory wrote: »

Not sure of that. I know one girl with us who started this year is on Point 1 of the new scale and she'll now be on Point 4. It's on the front page of the most recent ASTIR magazine!

I'm with the other crowd so I haven't seen it yet.

bdoo · 08-10-2012 5:31pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

dory wrote: »

Not sure of that. I know one girl with us who started this year is on Point 1 of the new scale and she'll now be on Point 4. It's on the front page of the most recent ASTIR magazine!

I'm with the other crowd so I haven't seen it yet.

That's old news actually. Was in the review of allowances announcements or somewhere that time.

Bear in mind that it's point 4 on the new scale. It is welcome however.

The rest of us started on point 3

dambarude · 08-10-2012 5:38pm

It's a very small token. Not long ago teachers started on point 3 of the old and higher scale and got allowances on top of it. This is point 4 of the 10% reduced scale, with no allowance.

rainbowtrout · 08-10-2012 7:13pm

dambarude wrote: »

It's a very small token. Not long ago teachers started on point 3 of the old and higher scale and got allowances on top of it. This is point 4 of the 10% reduced scale, with no allowance.

Ya I remember comparing them and point 6 of the new scale is the same (more or less) as point 3 of the old scale. So new teachers would have to had to work 6 years to get to the same pay as teachers prior to 2011 started off on. This was before the cut in allowances of course and just making a comparison of the basic pay scales.

shinesun · 08-10-2012 8:54pm

Deleted at user request

awny · 08-10-2012 9:20pm

BUt what about the people who started last year and only started on point 1. seem a bit unfair that someone who started after them is on a higher point of the scale?

rainbowtrout · 08-10-2012 10:01pm

awny wrote: »

BUt what about the people who started last year and only started on point 1. seem a bit unfair that someone who started after them is on a higher point of the scale?

I would assume that they would be moved up accordingly and would now be on point 5 this year.

awny · 08-10-2012 10:08pm

No rainbow trout thats not the case

http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scale/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

rainbowtrout · 08-10-2012 10:12pm

awny wrote: »

No rainbow trout thats not the case

http://www.asti.ie/pay-and-conditions/pay/salary-scale/salary-scale-for-teachers-appointed-after-january-2011/

My mistake. It's getting seriously confusing trying to figure out who is entitled to what.

From reading that it looks like:

Pre Dec 11: Old scale and all allowances
Dec 11- Jan 12 (a 6 week window, how many people are there in this category overall??) : New scale, point 1 and up to hons degree allowance.
Post Jan 12: New scale, point 4 and no allowances.

awny · 08-10-2012 10:15pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

My mistake. It's getting seriously confusing trying to figure out who is entitled to what.

From reading that it looks like:
Pre Dec 11: Old scale and all allowances

Dec 11- Jan 12 (a 6 week window, how many people are there in this category overall??) : New scale, point 1 and all allowances

Post Jan 12: New scale, point 4 and only allowance for hons degree.

no its pre dec 2010
then dec 2010- jan 2012
then post jan 2012.

Its a 1 year and 6 weeks window and im in this catagory!!

rainbowtrout · 08-10-2012 10:24pm

awny wrote: »

no its pre dec 2010
then dec 2010- jan 2012
then post jan 2012.

Its a 1 year and 6 weeks window and im in this catagory!!

My mistake again.

The ASTI website is very confusing. You're right, it does say salary scale for those appointed after Jan 11, but then it also says this:

Teachers first appointed between December 6th 2011 and January 31st 2012, and teachers returning to teaching following retirement begin on the 1st point of the salary scale.

and also:

The maximum amount payable in total qualification allowances to a teacher who commenced a Department paid teaching position 5 December 2011 – January 31 2012 cannot exceed €4,426.

Does that mean there are four categories then?

Pre Jan 11: Old scale, old allowances,
Jan 11 - Dec 11: New scale (point 1)and all allowances,
Dec 11 - Jan 12: New scale (point 1) and allowances limited to value of hons degree
Post Jan 12: New scale (point 4) and no allowances.

rainbowtrout · 08-10-2012 10:34pm

I only just spotted this on the ASTI website and hadn't heard anything about it before regarding S&S:

Can I join the supervision and substitution scheme if I was not in it before?
Yes, any teacher may contract into the S&S scheme and will be paid an allowance for this. However, the review states that those teachers who were not contracted into the scheme prior to February 1st, 2012 must provide 49 hours cover per year, as opposed to the 37 provided by teachers already in the scheme.

Was this just slipped in without anyone noticing?

bdoo · 09-10-2012 5:58am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I only just spotted this on the ASTI website and hadn't heard anything about it before regarding S&S:

Can I join the supervision and substitution scheme if I was not in it before?
Yes, any teacher may contract into the S&S scheme and will be paid an allowance for this. However, the review states that those teachers who were not contracted into the scheme prior to February 1st, 2012 must provide 49 hours cover per year, as opposed to the 37 provided by teachers already in the scheme.

Was this just slipped in without anyone noticing?

This was in the review of allowances too. Current teachers can do max of 49 hours with extra pay for the hours above 37.

If they are still only covering 1.5 hours per week it would be hard to squeeze the 49 hours in. In practice though many schools operate the s and s scheme to suit local needs where you might do 3 hours this weekend none next.
If I didn't need the money I'd pull out of it. It's a real pain in d ass

NoelleTh · 09-10-2012 2:21pm

I am so confused by this, I started working in Oct 2011 on an 8 hr contract with the Department - I get my allowances but I've started in a VEC school on 15 hours now the information the VEC sent me says I am on point 1 of the scale and I still get my allowances? I really am so lost when it comes to this, it all seems as clear as mud to me!

Patches22 · 09-10-2012 2:31pm

I'm confused too...
I did the dip last year na ddid a small amount of subbing now and again from Oct 2011-April 2012.
I'm now qualified but haven't been able to secure any work yet. Would be nice to be able to work out what I would be getting should my luck improve...
It all seems so complicated!

dory · 09-10-2012 2:36pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Pre Jan 11: Old scale, old allowances,
Jan 11 - Dec 11: New scale (point 1)and all allowances,
Dec 11 - Jan 12: New scale (point 1) and allowances limited to value of hons degree
Post Jan 12: New scale (point 4) and no allowances.

I think there are more categories. I'm old scale, but can only get hons degree allowance. It's because I subbed before Jan 2010 but didn't get an allowance type job until now.

rainbowtrout · 09-10-2012 3:11pm

bdoo wrote: »

This was in the review of allowances too. Current teachers can do max of 49 hours with extra pay for the hours above 37.

If they are still only covering 1.5 hours per week it would be hard to squeeze the 49 hours in. In practice though many schools operate the s and s scheme to suit local needs where you might do 3 hours this weekend none next.
If I didn't need the money I'd pull out of it. It's a real pain in d ass

I pulled out of it a couple of years ago so I wasn't in tune with the change in it.

There aren't a huge number of people doing S&S in my school, so many of the part timers would easily make up the 49 hours over the course of the year.

rainbowtrout · 09-10-2012 3:15pm

NoelleTh wrote: »

I am so confused by this, I started working in Oct 2011 on an 8 hr contract with the Department - I get my allowances but I've started in a VEC school on 15 hours now the information the VEC sent me says I am on point 1 of the scale and I still get my allowances? I really am so lost when it comes to this, it all seems as clear as mud to me!

Well starting in 2011 definitely means new scale. From my reading of it (which is getting to be more difficult each time) you would be on point 1 of that scale as is standard for anyone starting in 2011, but because you started before Dec 11 you get your allowances.

It's the people who started between Dec 11- Jan 12 that have their allowances capped and those that started after Jan 12 get no allowances at all.

Just doing the maths on it, you are better off financially on new scale point 1 + allowances than new scale point 4 and no allowances.

NoelleTh · 09-10-2012 3:26pm

Ok thanks for that clarification Rainbowtrout! Happy to be in the better financial situation but feel for those that are getting the raw deal, its awfully unfair.

rainbowtrout · 09-10-2012 5:29pm

NoelleTh wrote: »

Ok thanks for that clarification Rainbowtrout! Happy to be in the better financial situation but feel for those that are getting the raw deal, its awfully unfair.

I'm not an expert but that's what it looks like. If your VEC sent you a letter stating you were getting your allowances, don't argue with them!

wolfyboy555 · 09-10-2012 6:29pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I'm not an expert but that's what it looks like. If your VEC sent you a letter stating you were getting your allowances, don't argue with them!

Sent my statement of service from dept to vec. I subbed from nov 10 but only qualified from PDE this year and first job then this sept. They got back to me saying I will be on the old scale but allowances still have to be decided pending review from minister. I thought the review was already done?

Pay Rise for New Teachers!

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