Shouting and swearing at group ahead acceptable golf etiquette?

NDJ4

"Hurry the fcuk up lads!" came the cry from the group behind us this morning as one of our 3 ball was putting out.

Sorry if this is long, will try to keep it as short as possible.

We teed off at 9am with no group directly in front of us and one group 16 mins ahead. We caught up with the group ahead as we were playing our approach to the par 4 6th green. Their pace was fine but they had two groups ahead of them holding them up. As we putted on the 6th the group behind us had just caught up to us and were looking to play onto the green so were held up for about 1/2 minutes. This group had teed off 16 minutes behind us with no group in front of them.

We then drove off on the 7th and played our approaches and as we were putting the 3 behind us arrived waiting to play their second shots. They were waiting for no more than 2 minutes when one of them shouts at us "Hurry the fcuk up lads!". One of our 3 ball shouted back at them to mind their own game. I said nothing and putted out but my blood was boiling at this stage. We moved on and the group ahead of us had just cleared the par 3 8th green. We all played our tee shots but then I went back to have words with the group behind. I told them that they were completely out of order shouting when one of us putting and also that we had a gap in front of us when we started but that we had caught up with the group in front. One of them responded that we should then be pushing them on that if they were slow and that we should play through them. I told them that there were 2 groups ahead of them so that wasn't possible and again told them not to shout at us again and that they were completely out of order. The response to this was "Don't talk to us like we're children, you've said your piece now move on and get on with it."

I moved on but was shaking with anger. We finished the 8th hole then had to wait about 3 minutes before we could tee off. That was pretty much it for the next few holes, held up every hole by 1 or 2 minutes each shot. The group 2 ahead of us had lost a hole and a half so on the 11th let the group ahead of us through. So as we played the 11th there was 9 of us on the fairway as the 3 behind rolled up to drive. Thankfully they left after 11 holes so I wasn't the only one happy to see the back of them.

It completely ruined my day though, I had been playing really well but fell apart after this and really didn't recover well. In the end the round took 4 hours 10 minutes which is a relatively slow pace but not of our making. Average would probably be 3 hours 45 mins.

The best part about all of this is that two of the group behind us are ex-captains and the other, the one that told me to get on with it, is the current competition secretary. No apology offered and they didn't even hang around to have a good row afterwards!

Anyone ever had something like this happen to them? I want to make a formal complaint so will be doing so tomorrow but don't even know who to complain to, or whether I'm wasting my time. I know it's more a matter of bad etiquette so could let it slide, but I will not be bullied by anyone on a golf course especially by guys who think they are more important than the rest of us just because they have/had club connections. Any thoughts?

blockic

Good post. I'd be raging inside as well!!!

They were completely out of order and to come from ex-captains and the comp secretary is disgraceful.

Dead right to lodge formal complaint, but they could all be buddy buddy in the higher echelons of the club so could turn a blind eye.

Alrite Chief

I would be snapping if that happened me. Had a similar situation were the whole course was being held up ahead of us. We were right up the group in front of us arse as were they the group in front of them. For some reason while lining up a putt on the par 3 4th there is a fella on the tee box throwing a wobbler. Not shouting or anything just arm waving and head shaking. Next hole is a par 5 with a bit of a walk down to the tee box to the right and you drive back up the way you came. Low and behold there is the 3 lads "pick up the pace lads" they say. Resulted in a very civil argument about who was right and who was wrong. Got our apology on the 15th i think. Just said apology accepted but cheers for destroying the game.

Milkers

Name and shame is the simple and fitting answer. Post the name of the guy who shouted at you on here and what club. People do a lot of things in relative private that they would be mortified of becoming public knowledge. Make them accountable for their misbehaviour.

GreeBo

If you really feel strongly about it then I would send a letter to the committee.
Similar happened to me in the Captains Prize a few years ago, fella shout at us to hurry up from the tee on the par 3 15th while we were walking off the green.

I was advised to do nothing as he is known for being an idiot (and I was a bit younger at the time)
Was shaking with rage though.
If it happened now I would casually walk back to him and ask for an apology. If it wasnt forthcoming I would write a letter to the committee, these people survive by others tolerating their behaviour. You can be sure if a juvenile displayed the same behaviour there would be repercussions.

GreeBo

Milkers wrote: »

Name and shame is the simple and fitting answer. Post the name of the guy who shouted at you on here and what club. People do a lot of things in relative private that they would be mortified of becoming public knowledge. Make them accountable for their misbehaviour.

Do not follow this advice OP. Deal with this within the confines of your club. Make it "public" there if you want. Do not open boards.ie (or yourself) to liability.

ForeRight

When people do something like this on me I have a very simple yet effective solution.

Play as slow as possible(within reason) without even acknowledging the group behind or their shouts. Play it cool trig and just tip away happy as larry.

I guarantee you it's the shouters who will be shaking with rage and not you.

PRAF

Just wondering what people think is acceptable for a four ball playing 18 holes. I've played in some horrendously slow rounds when playing society golf (up to nearly 6 hours in the K Club - big courses and beginner golfers is a disaster), and have come close to 5 hour rounds when playing strokeplay events off the back stakes in my club (strokeplay is just too hard for the majority of club golfers).

In my mind, 4 hours is about right.

Myksyk

Write a letter to the men's Committee naming names. At the very least it will need to be read out at committee and will ensure an appropriate amount of embarrassment. If possible get all of your group to sign it to add weight to the issue. Request an apology in writing. You didn't spend your hard earned money joining the club to be verbally abused on your morning off.

Oilbeefhooked!

ForeRight wrote: »

When people do something like this on me I have a very simple yet effective solution.

Play as slow as possible(within reason) without even acknowledging the group behind or their shouts. Play it cool trig and just tip away happy as larry.

I guarantee you it's the shouters who will be shaking with rage and not you.

Agree that these guys were well out of order and a complaint should be lodged.
But there is never any excuse/ reason to slow down ones play on a golf course .

Dtoffee

The OP's situation is getting all too common and I have been there and its the height of ignorance. All you are required to do is keep up with the group in front of you on a golf course ....... it's not a race and respect should be shown to everyone.

I do not see the point in playing golf at breakneck speed so you can spoof about how you did it in 3 hours, nor do I see the point in agonising over every shot and taking six hours. A lot depends on the course, the format (strokes will always be slower), the age of the players and the actual playing conditions.

The letter of complaint should name and shame those shouting and also detail your witnesses if you are to have any chance of a successful outcome ..... have the facts right with dates, times and detail exactly who was there at the time. I take it your playing partners will back up your stance on this, its vital that it does not become one mans word against another. Best of luck and let us know the outcome.

slave1

No need for any of that OP, shame on them, that truly was a good walk spoiled, if anything you were right to have a vent here to release the rage.
Regarding doing anything now about it, I'd just move on as life's too short.

nomunnnofun

ForeRight wrote: »

When people do something like this on me I have a very simple yet effective solution.

Play as slow as possible(within reason) without even acknowledging the group behind or their shouts. Play it cool trig and just tip away happy as larry.

I guarantee you it's the shouters who will be shaking with rage and not you.

I can see your point ( and satisfaction ) about making the shouters shake with rage but what about the players behind them who are being penalised by your deliberate slow play also. This could also get you in trouble if reported by someone in another group for holding up the whole golf course. Tell the shouter where to go and tell them you'll be reporting them to the committee. This will prob keep them quiet for the rest of the round and should also give you a little satisfaction. Definitely follow up on your threat too to stop them from carrying on like this again.

death1234567

Q. Shouting and swearing at group ahead acceptable golf etiquette?

---

A. In Ireland, yes it is. It shouldn't be but it is.

Rikand

ForeRight wrote: »

When people do something like this on me I have a very simple yet effective solution.

Play as slow as possible(within reason) without even acknowledging the group behind or their shouts. Play it cool trig and just tip away happy as larry.

I guarantee you it's the shouters who will be shaking with rage and not you.

Until they lob a ball down on top of you.


At OP - if your club has a secretary id talk to them. can do no harm

Finlay Harp

Was told to hurry the f**k up myself before.
I shouted back 'your wife never said that last night'. I can tell you it was not me shaking with rage after that!;)

NDJ4

Hi lads,

Thanks for all the replies. Still raging about this today, swear I was dreaming about it all night!

I'm am going to lodge a formal complaint, maybe nothing will come of it but I'm not going to let this slide. Will certainly be looking for an apology at least. Sent a message to the other guys today to see if they want to pursue it further so just waiting on them to come back.

Anyway thanks for listening, it's definitely good to vent here! Will let you know what happens...

ForeRight

nomunnnofun wrote: »

I can see your point ( and satisfaction ) about making the shouters shake with rage but what about the players behind them who are being penalised by your deliberate slow play also. This could also get you in trouble if reported by someone in another group for holding up the whole golf course. Tell the shouter where to go and tell them you'll be reporting them to the committee. This will prob keep them quiet for the rest of the round and should also give you a little satisfaction. Definitely follow up on your threat too to stop them from carrying on like this again.

Im not saying hold up the hole golf course by any means by merely just act the maggot when the time is appropiate( nobody on tee behind lads waiting on fairway while you are on green for example)

It is still the most disgusting thing I regularly see on a golf course....bullies!!!!

The lads who give it the large one around a club and think they own the course when out on it. Grumpy and causing friction which effects everyones play and gets into your head as you get wound up.

Par71

Yes a very common problem on golf courses today. Everyday you hear of somthing new. I have had similar problems from a very well known entertainer (irish) on the course. I stand by my etos in life which is live and let live, if these guys want to grunt and shout at the smallest things in life let them, they wont affect me! I will play my round and pay no attention to them. Think about it if everybody ignored this behaviour they would all just be shouting at fresh air! Its not all that often i get out to play these days so nobody will ruin my day out!

The problem with clubs is they wont do anything about it for fear of loosing another member (which is what they will threaten if confronted). its a very sore point in golf these days but as i say its all doen to how we let us effect us. Keep the head up and play on! In golfing terms keep the head down

Alrite Chief

I agree. The problem is these shouters would be friendly enough with the lads in the pro shop as most members are. So who says it to them. The lads in the pro shop don't want to be dealing with something like that. It just gets left as if its acceptable. Its quite baffling for a sport that etiquette and honesty plays such a big role people can be such as**oles.

Gonna cut a long story short but played the wrong hole in an away course last weekend in a v par open. Had to go back to the right tee box and the lads behind us took great pleasure, almost beaming in their sneers, in telling us we were DQ'd. Im only playing a short time and take most people at face value on the rules. Fecked up the hole back 9 for us as we were not treating it serious. Were not DQ'd at all!!! Just lost the hole we are due to play like in matchplay.

jackal

Had a very similar incident happen and yes, you would have to be very very sure of yourself to be able to brush it off and not let it affect your game. Regardless of the fact that you were completely in the right and they were completely in the wrong, it's very easy to doubt your own actions in the face of such verbal abuse and start wondering are you unreasonably holding them up.

We were just visiting the course. After our incident one of our party who is non Irish went into the club house to have a chat with the manager about them and give out about them for "suspected racial abuse", which may have been a bit of an embellishment

The manager told us they were known as the "dawn patrol" or something and race around the course first thing in the morning in 3 hours and woe-betide anyone who gets in their way. They are generally tolerated because they don't come across anyone else, but they were particularly speedy that morning and caught up with us after we had been started on the 10th!

Alrite Chief

You're having a laugh?!! Your buddy went in to say he was racially abused when yous were just asked to get a move on?

sodbuster77

I would have went back and knocked one of them the fcuk out!!! But that's just me.

MP62

jackal wrote: »

Had a very similar incident happen and yes, you would have to be very very sure of yourself to be able to brush it off and not let it affect your game. Regardless of the fact that you were completely in the right and they were completely in the wrong, it's very easy to doubt your own actions in the face of such verbal abuse and start wondering are you unreasonably holding them up.

We were just visiting the course. After our incident one of our party who is non Irish went into the club house to have a chat with the manager about them and give out about them for "suspected racial abuse", which may have been a bit of an embellishment

The manager told us they were known as the "dawn patrol" or something and race around the course first thing in the morning in 3 hours and woe-betide anyone who gets in their way. They are generally tolerated because they don't come across anyone else, but they were particularly speedy that morning and caught up with us after we had been started on the 10th!

You cut in on them on the 10th and were not able to keep ahead of them and you think they were the ones in the wrong?.

FixdePitchmark

Alrite Chief wrote: »

You're having a laugh?!! Your buddy went in to say he was racially abused when yous were just asked to get a move on?

I hate slow play, but em - that is way worse.

SnowDrifts

jackal wrote: »

Had a very similar incident happen and yes, you would have to be very very sure of yourself to be able to brush it off and not let it affect your game. Regardless of the fact that you were completely in the right and they were completely in the wrong, it's very easy to doubt your own actions in the face of such verbal abuse and start wondering are you unreasonably holding them up.

We were just visiting the course. After our incident one of our party who is non Irish went into the club house to have a chat with the manager about them and give out about them for "suspected racial abuse", which may have been a bit of an embellishment

The manager told us they were known as the "dawn patrol" or something and race around the course first thing in the morning in 3 hours and woe-betide anyone who gets in their way. They are generally tolerated because they don't come across anyone else, but they were particularly speedy that morning and caught up with us after we had been started on the 10th!

Just curious - what happened when they caught up with your group? Did you invite them through straight away?

Shouting and being aggressive on a golf course should never happen but there seems to be a lot of innocent slow golfers on here. Thankfully, I have never come across a group that would not offer to let a faster group or less players through.

FixdePitchmark

SnowDrifts wrote: »

Just curious - what happened when they caught up with your group? Did you invite them through straight away?

Shouting and being aggressive on a golf course should never happen but there seems to be a lot of innocent slow golfers on here. Thankfully, I have never come across a group that would not offer to let a faster group or less players through.

I've noticed lads in there say 30s as being unreal slow, they will play as slow as possible till someone turns up behind them , then a sudden impulse of pace, they will walk a bit faster in a panic then, funny.

You should know where groups are on the course, If you want to play slow grand, but know where all are on the course, you need to know this for safety anyway.

I'm not joking, the time some stand before they move for a putt or drive is unreal - more than any pro. Not even started on their shot before last guy goes. Watcing too much Kevin Na.

But there is no way you should **** someone out of it, but you can be expected to ask to move on if you are taking the piss.

RedorDead

Kind of strange to see no-one address the root cause of the problem here though. The group ahead that was holding everybody up. Its usually a chain reaction going back maybe up to a dozen holes. The guys that shouted at you were in the wrong but this group down the course are ultimately responsible.

BoardsMember

Anyone care to suggest solutions? Other than having a ranger that can do the job and is supported in doing the job, I fail to see any solutions that can be implemented to solve the problem. Obviously, if everyone keeps up with the group ahead all is ok. But it is a peculiar skill the ranger needs, and not many have it, its easy for them to be ineffective, ignored, bullied, be bullies etc, its a fine art.

thewobbler

BoardsMember wrote: »

Anyone care to suggest solutions? Other than having a ranger that can do the job and is supported in doing the job, I fail to see any solutions that can be implemented to solve the problem. Obviously, if everyone keeps up with the group ahead all is ok. But it is a peculiar skill the ranger needs, and not many have it, its easy for them to be ineffective, ignored, bullied, be bullies etc, its a fine art.

Financial.

When you pay your fees/get your card you are allocated a tee time, and a 'return by' time. You then pay a deposit of €20 per man.

If the previous 3 groups make their return by time, but yours does not, you lose the deposit.

The return by time should factor in a few things: standard course playing time, fullness of tinesheet, nature of competition, and a small buffer. An algorithm anyone could write. And it should be nailed on the pro shop's door.

This method will work well with visitors, who tend to know their playing partners well. It would take a bit of bedding in time in competitive play in that one slow golfer could easily cost each of his playing partners their deposit. But, certainly for club competitions, it wouldn't take too long to pinpoint the offenders and refund those who aren't.

Oilbeefhooked!

BoardsMember wrote: »

Anyone care to suggest solutions? Other than having a ranger that can do the job and is supported in doing the job, I fail to see any solutions that can be implemented to solve the problem. Obviously, if everyone keeps up with the group ahead all is ok. But it is a peculiar skill the ranger needs, and not many have it, its easy for them to be ineffective, ignored, bullied, be bullies etc, its a fine art.

I don't agree that the rangers job is that hard/skilful.
If a course has a ranger out on the course aware of what is going on around him ,
It's fairly straight forward to patrol from the 18 th back wards and spot the groups early who are falling behind.
A quick word then to speed up up or else let the group behind through( if they are searching for ball etc) is enough to keep things flowing.
Basically 1 guy with a watch, good awareness , and the social skills to talk to people nicely but firmly is all you need.
As far as the slow play goes, all the solutions have been suggested earlier in this thread(being ready to play when it's your turn, leaving bag right side of green,
No Jim Furyk preshot routines etc).
Although one of the main solutions in my opinion is just to have a bit of skip in your stride! See so many guys taking an age to play the shot, but the compounding it with sloth like effort to get to ball for next shot,
Not saying we should all be running around out there but just walking with a bit of purpose!!

BoardsMember

thewobbler wrote: »

Financial.

When you pay your fees/get your card you are allocated a tee time, and a 'return by' time. You then pay a deposit of €20 per man.

If the previous 3 groups make their return by time, but yours does not, you lose the deposit.

The return by time should factor in a few things: standard course playing time, fullness of tinesheet, nature of competition, and a small buffer. An algorithm anyone could write. And it should be nailed on the pro shop's door.

This method will work well with visitors, who tend to know their playing partners well. It would take a bit of bedding in time in competitive play in that one slow golfer could easily cost each of his playing partners their deposit. But, certainly for club competitions, it wouldn't take too long to pinpoint the offenders and refund those who aren't.

Interesting theory. But its just that, a theory. And you're into massive rows with people coming off the course, having been held up all day, while you take time to work out who is due a refund. Or people fed up with their playing partner being slow, only for him to cost them their deposit. Also, people that are slow for 15 holes and put a spurt on to catch up end up being ok, with a slow course behind. Not to mention. The more I think about this the more un-workable it is.

From personal experience, I dont think the ranger job is straightforward at all. On the face of it, it would appear simple enough. But in practise you have players telling the ranger to f-off....I have witnessed and it should have been dealt with but they were senior members so just a tap on thw wrist, so ranger is undermined completely; you have rangers putting people off, talking to the wrong groups etc. Its not going to be a well paid job so getting someone with the required set of communication skills, authority, and knowledge of the game is not going to be as easy as you would hope. If it was that easy, slow play would not be the issue it is - most courses have rangers, most courses suffer from slow play.