New Irish rally champion, even though he is banned from driving!

homer simpson

Interested to get some boardsie's views on this,

So today Darren Gass has won the Irish Rally championship after he was banned from driving after doing donuts at a playground while drunk! He was convicted of drink-driving, dangerous driving and of causing criminal damage :eek:

He appealed the decision, saying the facts of the case were incorrect :rolleyes: word is he is trying to get off on a technicality, he isn't denying causing 1000's of damage to a kids playground while doing donuts when drunk. His rival didn't go to Cork this weekend, meaning he didn't even have to compete he had it won before the start ramp, but he did (Gass retired today but is still champion). It's not his first time in bother, During the Donegal rally this year he was stopped by Gardai in Manor main street on route to the first stage, he was later giving a large time penalty for the rally.

I believe this is going to damage the sport in the long term Joe Soap will think about this as lots of media have ran with the story. The sport has fought to distance itself from the guys blackening the roads doing donuts as average Joe calls that rallying, that thought will now only be strengthened.

Link 1 link 2

liam7831

He is an amateur driver. What he is being accused of occured on his own personal time. He won the championship fairly paid his entry fees etc, so i say fair play and well done on winning the ITC

homer simpson

liam7831 wrote: »

He is an amateur driver. What he is being accused of occured on his own personal time. He won the championship fairly paid his entry fees etc, so i say fair play and well done on winning the ITC

He isn't accused of anything he was found guilty and convicted at a court of law. No accusation in that.

I don't think it's right he was allowed to compete in Cork at all myself. Sure he was the fastest most consistent driver throughout the year on the stages but the guy should have no license to drive on the road.

How is having Gass as the champion not detrimental to the sport? It sure doesn't portray the sport in a good image.

Captain Chaos

So, wasn't there a Spanish MotoGP champion recently who didn't even have a license to drive on public roads. Big deal. If you are good at something and not hurting anyone while doing it and following all the rules then why not. What one get's up to in their own time is their own business.

homer simpson

Captain Chaos wrote: »

So, wasn't there a Spanish MotoGP champion recently who didn't even have a license to drive on public roads. Big deal. If you are good at something and not hurting anyone while doing it and following all the rules then why not. What one get's up to in their own time is their own business.

For someone to drive on a track there is more of an argument, but were talking about someone where a major part of that discipline of motorsport involves driving on public roads.

donspeekinglesh

It's not unheard of for WRC drivers to pick up speeding bans, and their co-drivers to have to drive the road sections.
And am pretty sure Petter Solberg had to have his co-driver do a competitive section this year because of a ban.

liam7831

homer simpson wrote: »

I don't think it's right he was allowed to compete in Cork at all myself. Sure he was the fastest most consistent driver throughout the year on the stages but the guy should have no license to drive on the road.





Well havin achieved top points in three of six of the rounds i think that makes him fastest overall

De Hipster

homer simpson wrote: »

For someone to drive on a track there is more of an argument, but were talking about someone where a major part of that discipline of motorsport involves driving on public roads.

I get your point that it does not bode well for the public's perception of the sport.

Technically he is not competing on public roads (the roads are classified as belonging to the organising club on the day of the stages) i.e. stages are closed to the public. However, he would not be permitted to drive road sections i.e. between stages, to & from service park, park ferme etc.

Again, not great P.R. for the sport - but not breaking any rules, championship won fair & square.

Robbo

Leaving out the rights and wrongs of Gass rocking up in Cork, it's really a PR problem that the sport could do without. It's well established that it's nigh on impossible to get reasonable mainstream coverage of the sport these days, except when some tragedy or adverse incident occurs.

There's talented drivers out there crying out for funds to further their careers at the international end of things (Cronin, McCormack, Fisher and to a lesser extent Breen) who have now found another potential pitfall in their way when approaching sponsors. How can you go trying to sell a professional and clean approach to the sport when the top prize in the country (albeit in a non-vintage year) has been taken by someone with this cloud following them around? I can't see how Dawson St could sit on their hands in relation to this when they've been trying for years to rehabilitate the public image of the sport in terms of road safety and respect for third parties (tie-ins with the RSA, "Keep the Race in it's Place").

De Hipster

Robbo wrote: »

Leaving out the rights and wrongs of Gass rocking up in Cork, it's really a PR problem that the sport could do without. It's well established that it's nigh on impossible to get reasonable mainstream coverage of the sport these days, except when some tragedy or adverse incident occurs.

There's talented drivers out there crying out for funds to further their careers at the international end of things (Cronin, McCormack, Fisher and to a lesser extent Breen) who have now found another potential pitfall in their way when approaching sponsors. How can you go trying to sell a professional and clean approach to the sport when the top prize in the country (albeit in a non-vintage year) has been taken by someone with this cloud following them around? I can't see how Dawson St could sit on their hands in relation to this when they've been trying for years to rehabilitate the public image of the sport in terms of road safety and respect for third parties (tie-ins with the RSA, "Keep the Race in it's Place").

It's a difficult one...but I don't see how MSI could exclude Gass from the championship event, he is not in contravention of the rules.

The sport really does need an updated 'code of conduct', very much still relying on the 'gentleman's agreement' style of ethics. Way too much not covered in the rules from unsporting conduct to the likes of public behavior & portrayal of the sport.

Also Gass is a good example of the issues of having two licensing bodies on the island (MSI & MSA), if I don't like the rules/representatives/whatever in the South, I can always get licensed in the North & still compete nationally / Internationally.

However it's worth noting that motorsport and particularly rallying in Ireland is amateur - what the competitors do in their own time is really no-ones business but their own.

afatbollix

Gass is appealing the judgement and until the appeal he still has a driving license.

Tea 1000

Captain Chaos wrote: »

So, wasn't there a Spanish MotoGP champion recently who didn't even have a license to drive on public roads. Big deal. If you are good at something and not hurting anyone while doing it and following all the rules then why not. What one get's up to in their own time is their own business.

Not when that involves acting the goon with a lethal weapon out in public when you're píssed. It's all of our business then to be fair.

afatbollix wrote: »

Gass is appealing the judgement and until the appeal he still has a driving license.

Probably appealed so that he could keep the license longer to compete.
If he still has a license then I think he should be allowed to compete I guess, but it is a shame. If you're partaking in a sport at a high level then you should respect everything to do with that sport when carrying out your daily business. People wouldn't take to kindly to a boxer starting scraps in nightclubs when drunk, and the boxing authorities would revoke their license to fight. Similar should apply here I reckon. You partake in the sport, then you're a shareholder in the responsibility for the reputation of it.

De Hipster

He may be appealing but he is still technically banned from driving: here

Darren Gass is free to compete in this weekend’s Cork 20 Rally - the final round of the series - despite being recently banned for three years for a drink-driving offence.

The decision was made because the 24-year-old has appealed the penalties and his documents are valid for this weekend.

Gass was convicted of drink-driving, dangerous driving and of causing criminal damage at Glencove Manor in Co Monaghan on 4 June this year.

homer simpson

De - hipster, I think you make some good points it's not a professional sport for anyone really (excluding Leob :pac:) private life should be left as such but when it directly impacts on the sport where your crowned the champion / best in the country that negates things in this scenario given the offence and the impact it may have on the sport.

He is still "technically" banned yes as far as I know, he has been convicted, think on it like someone being sentenced to jail, if innocent they can appeal, doesn't mean they don't go to jail because of the appeal, the same should have applied with Gass he shouldn't have been allowed to drive.

The main reason for me starting the thread I suppose was because I'd seen so many people on facebook saying well done to him and saying F**k the begrudger's, we all do stupid things ect ect. I just can't fathom supporting him given the situation, they are more or less supporting drink driving in a round about way.

And Robbo don't get us started on Dawson street & rallying, ha ha.

liam7831

Since Jennings didnt start he had the championship won anyway so he was technically champion before the court case

homer simpson

liam7831 wrote: »

Since Jennings didnt start he had the championship won anyway so he was technically champion before the court case

Jenning's did enter but pulled his entry the week before the rally so no that's not true. I bet he wishes he did go now.

liam7831

homer simpson wrote: »

Jenning's did enter but pulled his entry the week before the rally so no that's not true. I bet he wishes he did go now.

I said he didnt start didnt say he never entered. Doubt he would have won in an S10 anyway

homer simpson

liam7831 wrote: »

I said he didnt start didnt say he never entered. Doubt he would have won in an S10 anyway

I know I said what your saying is untrue, he didn't have the Championship won before the court case as Jenning's was still for going at that stage.

Surprised he didn't do it in the Evo even, to win the GpN championship.

De Hipster

homer simpson wrote: »

De - hipster, I think you make some good points it's not a professional sport for anyone really (excluding Leob :pac:) private life should be left as such but when it directly impacts on the sport where your crowned the champion / best in the country that negates things in this scenario given the offence and the impact it may have on the sport.

He is still "technically" banned yes as far as I know, he has been convicted, think on it like someone being sentenced to jail, if innocent they can appeal, doesn't mean they don't go to jail because of the appeal, the same should have applied with Gass he shouldn't have been allowed to drive.

The main reason for me starting the thread I suppose was because I'd seen so many people on facebook saying well done to him and saying F**k the begrudger's, we all do stupid things ect ect. I just can't fathom supporting him given the situation, they are more or less supporting drink driving in a round about way.

And Robbo don't get us started on Dawson street & rallying, ha ha.

I think MSI have issues with doling out public punishments, but also how would it reflect on Dawson St had they thrown him out of the championship (or prevented him from taking the championship to save face) and then the appeal is upheld - tough call.

Easy to forget (power-trips & track tempers aside) that the majority of people on committees in Dawson Street are people with a dedication to the sport & some free time.

Also - there is no such thing as sport without politics!

frostie500

Why would there be any issue? As long as he doesnt drive the road stages there isnt any issue as far as Im concerned. Lots of F1 drivers have lost their driving licences (Montoya, Villeneuve and Hill all werent able to drive in France) and your right in saying that its bad for publicity but it happens all over the world

On the MotoGP champion lots of riders dont have a licence for riding on the roads as a lot of the riders I have spoken to view it as too dangerous compared to driving

wobbles

The difference though is that motor clubs have to go to residents on stages to get permission to run the stage. Its not that club can say they need this road or that road and have it closed. If a resident has a problem that cant be overcome, the stage doesnt run.

Rallying is also very intrusive to residents. Unlike most other motorsports, you dont have to go to a circuit, it comes to you. Residents may not have issues with the rally passing, but they are still put out because of it.

Because of that, public opinion has a huge impact on the sport, and keeping them onside while distancing itself from anything negitive is hugely important. What happened has put the clubs back years. Drink driving has become a lot more of a serious issue than it once was (and rightly so). Having a champion of the sport that is disqualified from driving because they were over the limit is something that the clubs are going to have thrown in their faces when they meet residents about stages. And the fact that he turned up in Cork shows he has no remorse for what he did.

Paddy001

homer simpson wrote: »

I know I said what your saying is untrue, he didn't have the Championship won before the court case as Jenning's was still for going at that stage.

Surprised he didn't do it in the Evo even, to win the GpN championship.

Jennings had no interest in the Group N championship, why would he spend more money doing an event at the other end of the country for the sake of it? He didn't go to Cork because it was almost mathematically impossible for him to take the championship after the Ulster results. Jennings would have had a big battle with O'Riordan for the win, and then Darren would cruise into third and still take the championship, there was realistically nobody else entered that could hold him down, so wasn't much point in Jennings going down to it, he's doing the Harvest instead.

liam7831 wrote: »

I said he didnt start didnt say he never entered. Doubt he would have won in an S10 anyway

He entered an S10 for the Ulster and only finished a minute behind Darren after a load of problems on the Saturday, so obviously he had to settle for second Sunday, he was more than capable of winning Ulster only for that and he would have been capable of taking Cork in an S10 as well after a close battle with O'Riordan.

liam7831

Paddy001 wrote: »

He entered an S10 for the Ulster and only finished a minute behind Darren after a load of problems on the Saturday, so obviously he had to settle for second Sunday, he was more than capable of winning Ulster only for that and he would have been capable of taking Cork in an S10 as well after a close battle with O'Riordan.

From what i remember on Ulster he didnt win a single stage so I dont know where you getting that from.

Paddy001

liam7831 wrote: »

From what i remember on Ulster he didnt win a single stage so I dont know where you getting that from.

He won at least two and I doubt he was pushing to win them on Sunday, he was too far back to get ahead of Gass so probably just settled. Just look at what he done in Donegal with an S14, a car O'Riordan tried out and couldn't get any good of on Irish tar, then Jennings brings one from Wales and beats them all no bother! I hope he moves upto a WRC next year and McNulty and Donnelly are out again too, should be interesting then!

liam7831

Paddy001 wrote: »

He won at least two and I doubt he was pushing to win them on Sunday, he was too far back to get ahead of Gass so probably just settled. Just look at what he done in Donegal with an S14, a car O'Riordan tried out and couldn't get any good of on Irish tar, then Jennings brings one from Wales and beats them all no bother! I hope he moves upto a WRC next year and McNulty and Donnelly are out again too, should be interesting then!

Which two were they ?
That was down to how Evans set it up on tarmac spec as much as the pilot.

Paddy001

liam7831 wrote: »

Which two were they ?
That was down to how Evans set it up on tarmac spec as much as the pilot.

SS11 and SS12, that was it actually because I just checked. Suppose it was, but the UK tar is still a fair bit different, Jennings spent a few days testing here I think!

wobbles

liam7831 wrote: »

Which two were they ?
That was down to how Evans set it up on tarmac spec as much as the pilot.

How many cars has Jennings drove this year, i count at least 5. He was on the pace in each of these. You dont just jump into a unfamiliar car and be quick. Stick them both in the same car theyve never driven before, over the same stage and jennings will always be faster.

Had he concentrated on the tarmac championship this year, we would have a different champion

Paddy001

wobbles wrote: »

How many cars has Jennings drove this year, i count at least 5. He was on the pace in each of these. You dont just jump into a unfamiliar car and be quick. Stick them both in the same car theyve never driven before, over the same stage and jennings will always be faster.

Had he concentrated on the tarmac championship this year, we would have a different champion

He concentrated on the Group N, but was so close went for the overall win and started the campaign in Donegal! I hope he launches a full attack in a WRC next year, an S10 would do him fine! Start of the year should bring Donnelly again too, O'Riordan and hopefully McNulty. Probably wont see Gass though for a long time, if ever!

liam7831

Had McGarrity, Donnelly or McNulty done similar im sure you would be right

kartincolin

Driving on the road is a means of getting from A to B, whereas rallying is driving through the special stages as fast as humanly possible, so I don`t see why his road driving offences should have any major implications on his championship winning campaign. There is no denying that it is bad PR for the sport, in a year when it did not need it in the light of several rallying related fatalities across Europe (Gareth Roberts, Cavan Stages Rally etc.) However, the sport needs competitive drivers badly and he didn`t break any MSI rules, so the merit of his championship should remain unchanged.

homer simpson

kartincolin wrote: »

Driving on the road is a means of getting from A to B, whereas rallying is driving through the special stages as fast as humanly possible, so I don`t see why his road driving offences should have any major implications on his championship winning campaign. There is no denying that it is bad PR for the sport, in a year when it did not need it in the light of several rallying related fatalities across Europe (Gareth Roberts, Cavan Stages Rally etc.) However, the sport needs competitive drivers badly and he didn`t break any MSI rules, so the merit of his championship should remain unchanged.

Ah but to traverse between said special stages he needs to travel on public road's. For which he should have no licence to drive on. He only appealed so he wouldn't loose his license before Cork.

kartincolin

homer simpson wrote: »

Ah but to traverse between said special stages he needs to travel on public road's. For which he should have no licence to drive on. He only appealed so he wouldn't loose his license before Cork.

Good point, well made. In hindsight, it was a very stupid thing for him to do and I suppose he will have to deal with the consequences like everybody else, regardless of his motorsport pedigree.