BVD testing

yellow50HX

noted in today paper that the BVD tagging will be compulsory from next year. Is this the case or is it just speculation? Didn't do the voluntary tagging this year as we don't sell calves so not too up on it.

Is this BVD thing a new "jobs for the boys" or is there a genuine benefit?
Is this only for fellas selling calves or will it be for all cattle?
and most importantly how much extra will this cost me?

will i need to reorder all new tags again next year or do i need just buy the little round ones?
Will my existing tagger do or do i need to get another new one?
do i need to change how i register the calves born?

bbam

I was surprised to see it mentions the little tag will be gone and a new double purpose tag, ID and sample will be used.
This may be simplistic but how will I know a calf has been tested at the mart? Will there be a cert or is this a trust based system ?

There seem to be plenty of information evenings, must get myself along to one.

blue5000

yellow50HX wrote: »

noted in today paper that the BVD tagging will be compulsory from next year. I

Yeah 50, it's compulsory alright. Will we have to buy a second tagger as well? What happens to leftover tags from this year?

s this the case or is it just speculation? Didn't do the voluntary tagging this year as we don't sell calves so not too up on it.

Is this BVD thing a new "jobs for the boys" or is there a genuine benefit?

Anyone who has had the misfortune to have had bvd on their farms will tell you it is well worth while.


Is this only for fellas selling calves or will it be for all cattle?
and most importantly how much extra will this cost me?

will i need to reorder all new tags again next year or do i need just buy the little round ones?
Will my existing tagger do or do i need to get another new one?
do i need to change how i register the calves born?

Few good questions there 50:pac:

reilig

bbam wrote: »

I was surprised to see it mentions the little tag will be gone and a new double purpose tag, ID and sample will be used.
This may be simplistic but how will I know a calf has been tested at the mart? Will there be a cert or is this a trust based system ?

There seem to be plenty of information evenings, must get myself along to one.

From Jan1st, calves cannot be sold unless they are bvd tagged - so you can be sure that all calves sold in mart or private will be bvd tested. It will be illegal to sell a calf that is shown to have BVD in the ear notch test. Don't know if there will be a cert, but farmers risk fines if they break the rules.

reilig

yellow50HX wrote: »

noted in today paper that the BVD tagging will be compulsory from next year. Is this the case or is it just speculation? Didn't do the voluntary tagging this year as we don't sell calves so not too up on it.

Is this BVD thing a new "jobs for the boys" or is there a genuine benefit?
Is this only for fellas selling calves or will it be for all cattle?
and most importantly how much extra will this cost me?

will i need to reorder all new tags again next year or do i need just buy the little round ones?
Will my existing tagger do or do i need to get another new one?
do i need to change how i register the calves born?

- BVD testing doesn't do much to create extra work for the boys in the Dep of Ag. testing is private - you have to set up an account with a private lab and pay for each animal tested. €3.90 per calf I think I paid this year.

BVD eradication has a genuine benefit:

BvDv (bovine viral diarrhea virus) is a disease with devastating economic consequences. Just one infected animal can result in a full-scale livestock epidemic within a very short period of time.
In fact, 70 to 90 percent of all BVDV infections can occur without the appearance of clinical signs, putting most cattle herds at risk for infection. Additionally, persistently infected (PI) animals remain infected for life. They shed large amounts of the virus, infecting herd mates and introducing the disease to other cattle.
Early identification and removal of PI animals is the most critical measure for achieving successful eradication. Several scientific journals and diagnostic studies show that BVD testing helps eliminate unnecessary losses. Large-scale screening on a preventative basis can ultimately lead to a significant reduction of overall costs and the economic impact that cow and cattle losses create

www.enfergroup.com

All calves born on your farm need to be tested whether you sell them as calves, weinlings, stores of finished animals.

If you have leftover tags from this year, you need to order BVD tags for these tags only. Any new tags ordered from Jan 1st will have the bvd notch section built into them.

You will need a new Taggers ~ €20,

AFAIK you will still register your calves in the same way. ie tag your calf after he is born and send the reg form off. however, you will also be sending off the ear sample to the lab for testing. I'm sure that the Lab will feed results back to teh Dep of Ag system which will in turn be accessable to marts to show that calves have passed the test.

Hope that helps a little.

rancher

reilig wrote: »

-
AFAIK you will still register your calves in the same way. ie tag your calf after he is born and send the reg form off. however, you will also be sending off the ear sample to the lab for testing. I'm sure that the Lab will feed results back to teh Dep of Ag system which will in turn be accessable to marts to show that calves have passed the test.

Hope that helps a little.

Surely the department won't issue a card until they get an all clear from the lab....

pakalasa

If you have BVD tags left over from last year, I assume you can use these also. Right?

reilig

rancher wrote: »

Surely the department won't issue a card until they get an all clear from the lab....

I don't know. Sure they'll have to issue a card even if the animal fails the test so that the farmer can dispose of the animal in the knackery.

KCTK

rancher wrote: »

Surely the department won't issue a card until they get an all clear from the lab....

This year I done it and card would usually arrive well before test results. Also if calf is positive you'll need the card when sending him off.

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

If you have BVD tags left over from last year, I assume you can use these also. Right?

Yes you can.

LivInt20

yellow50HX wrote: »

noted in today paper that the BVD tagging will be compulsory from next year. Is this the case or is it just speculation? Didn't do the voluntary tagging this year as we don't sell calves so not too up on it.

Is this BVD thing a new "jobs for the boys" or is there a genuine benefit?
Is this only for fellas selling calves or will it be for all cattle?
and most importantly how much extra will this cost me?

will i need to reorder all new tags again next year or do i need just buy the little round ones?
Will my existing tagger do or do i need to get another new one?
do i need to change how i register the calves born?

Minister has confirmed that BVD testing is complusory in 2013.
Not a job for the boys, will save farmers millions when BVD is eradicated.
www.animalhealthireland.ie

Will be for all calves born on your farm. You may have BVD in your herd and not be aware of it.

Extra cost in the testing, but if you find BVD in your herd, well worth the extra cost.
If you have tags left over, you will need the button tags to match the ID tags. If ordering new tags, no need for button tags, ID tags will also take a sample from the calf. New tagger required.

Calves/weanlings cannot be sold if they have not tested negative for BVD. Will be a legal requirement to have tested for BVD before a sale can go through the mart or private. If you try to buy a BVD infected calf through a private sale, they WILL die, and they WILL infect the rest of your herd, leading to more infected animals, more disease, more vets bills, more dead animals, more loss of profit......

leg wax

over 600 euros of tags from enfer arrived today a busy weekend ahead for me,i think i have a problem so going to first find out if it is bvd.:(

rancher

KCTK wrote: »

This year I done it and card would usually arrive well before test results. Also if calf is positive you'll need the card when sending him off.

They could issue a different colour card for positives, ensuring that they don't end up being sold into a clean herd, Its not good enough if they give you a card to sell him on and then you have to go looking for the calf back if its positive.
It would be stupid to issue cards before they get results

whelan1

rancher wrote: »

They could issue a different colour card for positives, ensuring that they don't end up being sold into a clean herd, Its not good enough if they give you a card to sell him on and then you have to go looking for the calf back if its positive.
It would be stupid to issue cards before they get results

IT COMES UP ON THE BOARD IN THE MART IF AN ANIMAL IS BVD TESTED.... think they still have alot of teething problems in ahi, i didnt get notification of a positive calf til 6 months after i had disposed of it:eek: my vet had gotten the results and let me know but ahi didnt tel me til 6months later she was positive

rancher

whelan1 wrote: »

IT COMES UP ON THE BOARD IN THE MART IF AN ANIMAL IS BVD TESTED.... think they still have alot of teething problems in ahi, i didnt get notification of a positive calf til 6 months after i had disposed of it:eek:

Whats the capitals for!!!!! If its ilegal to sell a positive calf, cards are no good to you until you get a result, so why not issue different cards for positives ...just asking

whelan1

rancher wrote: »

Whats the capitals for!!!!! If its ilegal to sell a positive calf, cards are no good to you until you get a result, so why not issue different cards for positives ...just asking

one of the kids left the cap locks on.....you can not get a result until the calf is registered.... maybe the ifa could address this problem for the farming community.i tag the calf , register them on line and post off samples on the same day, this week it was tuesday, i got the cards in the post today and will probably have bvd results by text tomottow and calves- negatives- will be in ardee on tuesday:D

yellow50HX

So if some people were waiting months for test results this year, how long will we have to wait when the whole country is being tested????

What's he deal if you get a calf that is positive? Do I have to go out and get a shot gun too???

whelan1

You get a text that calf is positive. You isolate it and get vet to take a blood test from calf and dam. If thats positive calf goes to knackery. I think my case was a one off where paperwork took 6 months to come through. Have only had one pisitive so far

yellow50HX

So do you get compo for the calf? Does the cow get culled too and if so do I get compo? Have put a lot of time, effort and money in the herd over the last few years needless to say I don't want to be out of pocket.

whelan1

For the calf I got 15 towards dispoal costs. Was an aax heifer calf. Strangely my dad had bvd positive the same week as me. when retested it came back positive and had to be put down, he got 100 towards the cost of keeping the suckler cow. The calf was a pure bred angus bull

rancher

yellow50HX wrote: »

So do you get compo for the calf? Does the cow get culled too and if so do I get compo? Have put a lot of time, effort and money in the herd over the last few years needless to say I don't want to be out of pocket.

Compo in the bvd scheme is only a token payment, 15 for a calf,100 for his mother, recession and all that,
Is it even compulsory to slaughter the cow if she's a positive.....I don't know, but I'm sure dept ag took it for granted that the farmer wouldn't leave her in the herd,

whelan1

rancher wrote: »

Compo in the bvd scheme is only a token payment, 15 for a calf,100 for his mother, recession and all that,
Is it even compulsory to slaughter the cow if she's a positive.....I don't know, but I'm sure dept ag took it for granted that the farmer wouldn't leave her in the herd,

i think its quite rare for a cow to live to breed and be bvd positive iykwim.... most if positive would be dead before they breed, from what our vet said if it was a heifers calf then there might be a possibility it could be positive

rancher

whelan1 wrote: »

i think its quite rare for a cow to live to breed and be bvd positive iykwim.... most if positive would be dead before they breed, from what our vet said if it was a heifers calf then there might be a possibility it could be positive

Actually meant a PI but didn't want the bother of explaining it, they don't all die young

whelan1

rancher wrote: »

Actually meant a PI but didn't want the bother of explaining it, they don't all die young

Local vets had a case of pi2 they where cows and symptoms where similar to foot and mouth. Very rare I am told

sh1tstirrer

yellow50HX wrote: »

So if some people were waiting months for test results this year, how long will we have to wait when the whole country is being tested????

What's he deal if you get a calf that is positive? Do I have to go out and get a shot gun too???

Waiting months, I tested the calves this year and had the results back within a fortnight. The reason it took that long was because the place I sent the samples to couldn't be arsed sending the results in a text and I had to wait for the letter from the department confirming the results.

whelan1

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

Waiting months, I tested the calves this year and had the results back within a fortnight. The reason it took that long was because the place I sent the samples to couldn't be arsed sending the results in a text and I had to wait for the letter from the department confirming the results.

i didnt get official confirmation of pisitive blood test for months from ahi. Couldnt fault enfer they are very good

sh1tstirrer

whelan1 wrote: »

i didnt get official confirmation of pisitive blood test for months from ahi. Couldnt fault enfer they are very good

I was sending samples to a lab on Tramore rd. Cork.

yellow50HX

So is there a list of labs or do they go to central location?

LostCovey

yellow50HX wrote: »

So do you get compo for the calf? Does the cow get culled too and if so do I get compo? Have put a lot of time, effort and money in the herd over the last few years needless to say I don't want to be out of pocket.

The whole idea of the scheme is that BVD PIs are generally unproductive, dangerous to the rest of your herd, and to your neighbours cattle and typically die young when you have enough spent on them.

I don't know if there will be any compo in the compulsory scheme - the 15 euros above was in this year's voluntary scheme for those who went in early and got the first year of the programme done.

If you have put time, effort and money into your herd, you wpn't want to keep PIs, you will want to get them out of your herd anyway, and there is nobody to pay compo as this scheme is an AHI farmer-led scheme, with legislation backing it, rather than a Govt scheme.

It would make sense for farmers to pay into an insurance scheme to compensate their neighbours/themseles if they get a lot of PIs, but I can't see it happening in this country. Happens abroad I believe.

whelan1

yellow50HX wrote: »

So is there a list of labs or do they go to central location?

yes, probably on the ahi website, the reason iam with enfer is that they are in a deal with glanbia and you can get the fee deducted from your milk cheques think its a little over €3 per animal..... am glad i did it this year .

yellow50HX

Dont know much about BVD, my dad had one that died on him a few years back that the vet suspected was BVD, had the cow checked and she was fine. I must be one of the lucky ones that hasn't been affected in recent years. But if plenty of lads have had issues then i suppose there must be a problem out there.

Just want make sure that this is not another "much ado about nothing". could we be just making a mountain out of a mole hill. identifying and culling infected animals is one thing but would a vaccination programme be more productive (dont know if that is possible)?

just cos a government agency say its a big problem doesn't mean it actually true. statistics can be easily manipulated to suit an agenda, and this government dont seem much different from the last when it comes to looking after their own agendas.

LostCovey

yellow50HX wrote: »

Dont know much about BVD, my dad had one that died on him a few years back that the vet suspected was BVD, had the cow checked and she was fine. I must be one of the lucky ones that hasn't been affected in recent years. But if plenty of lads have had issues then i suppose there must be a problem out there.

Just want make sure that this is not another "much ado about nothing". could we be just making a mountain out of a mole hill. identifying and culling infected animals is one thing but would a vaccination programme be more productive (dont know if that is possible)?

just cos a government agency say its a big problem doesn't mean it actually true. statistics can be easily manipulated to suit an agenda, and this government dont seem much different from the last when it comes to looking after their own agendas.

Weclome to the BVD party yellow50HX!

I think a lot of us had similar doubts at some stage, but the whole thing has been fairly well thrashed out with a huge amount of consultation over the past few years.

I don't think this government, the last government, the civil service, or any government agency care a fig either way whether it is eradicated or not. BVD was selected for eradication by Irish farmers and by some scientific experts whose opinions were canvassed by Animal Health Ireland.

AHI was 50% funded by the Dept, but aren't we all. Its not a Govt agency.

The calculation was that this disease costs Irish farming over €100m per year and could be eradicated for a fraction of that.

If vaccination worked to control BVD I don't think the eradication programme would have got off the ground.

LC

LostCovey

Here you go.

Take an hour and read this -

http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/page.php?id=16

- if you have any questions after that, come back here to the Boards BVD Support Group - 100% non-Govt funded.

reilig

yellow50HX wrote: »

Dont know much about BVD, my dad had one that died on him a few years back that the vet suspected was BVD, had the cow checked and she was fine. I must be one of the lucky ones that hasn't been affected in recent years. But if plenty of lads have had issues then i suppose there must be a problem out there.

Just want make sure that this is not another "much ado about nothing". could we be just making a mountain out of a mole hill. identifying and culling infected animals is one thing but would a vaccination programme be more productive (dont know if that is possible)?

just cos a government agency say its a big problem doesn't mean it actually true. statistics can be easily manipulated to suit an agenda, and this government dont seem much different from the last when it comes to looking after their own agendas.

A couple of points on your post.

1. Checking a cow for BVD just because her calf had bvd is a waste of time. The calf picks up bvd while it is a foetus inside the cow. This happens when the cow comes in contact with a PI or a TI during pregnancy. The foetus becomes infected, not the cow. Next year she could have a 100% free from BVD calf if she doesn't come in contact with a PI or TI. Chances are that if a calf lives long enough to be a cow, then she won't have BVD. Its not a fool proof rule, but it is very rare (1 in 100,000) to have a cow with bvd.

2. It is recommended by independent vets (not the government) to use a 2 pronged approach against bvd of vaccinating and testing calves in order to clear out any problems that may be in your herd as fast as possible and to reduce the costs on your business.

3. I don't think any government agency gives a flying f€ck about BVD. You have to realise that testing for BVD is in your own interest. We have been vaccinating for bvd for 6 years now after a calf died with an unknown cause and we had him tested positive for BVD. We have noticed a huge reduction in scours among calves. This lead to lower vet bills and less losses of animals. BVD free calves will put on more condition and generally be healthier than a calf with bvd. BVD is an investment for your farm which can yield huge savings on your farm and ultimately more profit.

LostCovey

reilig wrote: »

A couple of points on your post.

1. Checking a cow for BVD just because her calf had bvd is a waste of time. The calf picks up bvd while it is a foetus inside the cow. This happens when the cow comes in contact with a PI or a TI during pregnancy. The foetus becomes infected, not the cow. Next year she could have a 100% free from BVD calf if she doesn't come in contact with a PI or TI. Chances are that if a calf lives long enough to be a cow, then she won't have BVD. Its not a fool proof rule, but it is very rare (1 in 100,000) to have a cow with bvd.

2. It is recommended by independent vets (not the government) to use a 2 pronged approach against bvd of vaccinating and testing calves in order to clear out any problems that may be in your herd as fast as possible and to reduce the costs on your business.

3. I don't think any government agency gives a flying f€ck about BVD. You have to realise that testing for BVD is in your own interest. We have been vaccinating for bvd for 6 years now after a calf died with an unknown cause and we had him tested positive for BVD. We have noticed a huge reduction in scours among calves. This lead to lower vet bills and less losses of animals. BVD free calves will put on more condition and generally be healthier than a calf with bvd. BVD is an investment for your farm which can yield huge savings on your farm and ultimately more profit.

Totally agree Reilig great post - just want to clarify re two small points:

I wasn't running down vaccination, it has a role, but I agree with your 2-pronged approach - vaccination will never eradicate BVD without identifying & taking out PIs

Checking a cow for BVD just because her calf had bvd is a waste of time.
I think this is a bit sweeping - enough BVD PIs live long enough to breed that you could never rule this out without a test. Some PI cows (minority admittedly) live to ripe old age and will have a PI calf every year - it is well worth identifying these, which is why the compulsory scheme requires dams of BVD PIs to be tested.

LC

reilig

LostCovey wrote: »

Totally agree Reilig great post - just want to clarify re two small points:

I wasn't running down vaccination, it has a role, but I agree with your 2-pronged approach - vaccination will never eradicate BVD without identifying & taking out PIs

Checking a cow for BVD just because her calf had bvd is a waste of time.
I think this is a bit sweeping - enough BVD PIs live long enough to breed that you could never rule this out without a test. Some PI cows (minority admittedly) live to ripe old age and will have a PI calf every year - it is well worth identifying these, which is why the compulsory scheme requires dams of BVD PIs to be tested.

LC

I was at a meeting last night about it. It was part of our Discussion group and these were the ideas being put out there. There were 2 vets there. One was very clued up, the other hadn't a clue. He tried to tell us that if a calf had bvd then the cow definitely had it. The other guy was very clued up, it was him who gave the figure of 1 in 100,000 cows being a PI. Nobody in our group had ever seen or heard of a cow being a PI, neither had the Vet. (The other vet thought that every mother of a PI was a PI herself ).

BVD causes cows to abort if they come in contact with it before the foetus is 8 weeks. If the cow herself is a PI then it is unlikely that she will hold in calf. The vet used this to explain why so few cows end up as PI's.

AHI need to educate both farmers and vets on this one.

Edit:

I should add that the vet stated that he does not believe that BVD vaccinations provide as long of cover as they claim to. One claims 12 months, the other 15 months (approx). He said that independent studies show that they really arn't affective beyond 7 or 8 months. Some farmers were injecting all of their cows at the one time being confident that they would have 12 months cover no matter when she was bulled and this is not always the case. Its vitally important to only vaccinate a couple of weeks before you expect each cow to go to the bull!

LostCovey

reilig wrote: »

I was at a meeting last night about it. It was part of our Discussion group and these were the ideas being put out there. There were 2 vets there. One was very clued up, the other hadn't a clue. He tried to tell us that if a calf had bvd then the cow definitely had it. The other guy was very clued up, it was him who gave the figure of 1 in 100,000 cows being a PI. Nobody in our group had ever seen or heard of a cow being a PI, neither had the Vet. (The other vet thought that every mother of a PI was a PI herself ).

BVD causes cows to abort if they come in contact with it before the foetus is 8 weeks. If the cow herself is a PI then it is unlikely that she will hold in calf. The vet used this to explain why so few cows end up as PI's.

AHI need to educate both farmers and vets on this one.

Reilig, you know I hate to argue, but....

You can argue any way you want with statistics. Saying that adult PI cows are 1 in 100,0000 of the general population is probably not accurate though.


Follow up testing of dams :
Some 8.5% of dams of calves that were confirmed as persistently infected (PI) also tested positive for BVD virus, strongly suggesting that they in turn were PI
Source: http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/ckfinder/userfiles/files/201210%20BVD%20Programme%20Review%20VIJ%20Oct.pdf

So if 0.6% of calves were PIs, and 8.5% of their dams were PIs, then at least 0.05% OF THE COWS THAT HAD CALVES IN 2012 are themselves live, breathing, breeding PIs.

That, as you can work out, is 1 in 2000, or 50 times as common as that vet estimated.

So it is not a rare theoretical possibility, it is a real factor that the scheme has to address (and in fairness to them they have comprehensively covered it).

yellow50HX

like I say, don't know much about BVD. I'm all for making improvements to the herd when i see a benefit.

Don't know anyone that was in the voluntary scheme last year (although i did end up buying 2 calves that had been tagged for it in the mart). just trying to make sure its not another unnecessary levy like the septic tank charge and household charge.

wasn't aware that BVD was so rife (we only started buying in animals a few years ago, and at that only a few calves and a stock bull). just trying to figure out the implications for positive results and what that means for the rest of my herd. could this be another BSE or TB???? is there a planned timeframe for this testing as i assume from what is being said here that identifying and culling carriers and effected animals will stamp it out, or am i being naive. as some of you have said you vaccinate the cows, if so will a vaccination/dosing program eliminate this issue down the road as it seems not to be good enough now. Again as we have escaped any major issues with BVD this may be a bigger issue then i reckon it is.

good to know that i would need to disinfect the sheds if i have used them for isolating animals (even though its something i do in the summers anyway). We use a disinfection powder on the cubicles for the cows (throw a bit on every few days) and it has reduced the amount of scour and mastitisis a lot over the last few years, and have regular straw bedding for the calves. the cubicles and feed passage are scraped down every day. if we get a calf that has a bit of scour i would always takeaway the scour and throw some of the powder onto the area around it.

reilig

That exact page was put on screen last night and that figure pointed out. The vet pointed out that when cattle come in contact with a TI or a PI, they become temporarily infected with BVD. This infection lasts for up to 3 weeks and after one infection they become immune to BVD themselves (ie. can no longer become a TI, but if they come in contact with a PI ot another TI can still pass BVD onto Foetus). If these cows who are immune to TI BDV are tested, the test will show them to have been infected. However, because they are immune, the will not pass it on to the foetus. In short, just because they were temporarily or transiently infected with BVD in the past, and this shows in any tests done, does not mean that the Cow is a PI or that her calf is sure to be a TI.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm just giving the information as it was given to me.

Hope it makes sense?

LostCovey wrote: »

Reilig, you know I hate to argue, but....

You can argue any way you want with statistics. Saying that adult PI cows are 1 in 100,0000 of the general population is probably not accurate though.


Follow up testing of dams :
Some 8.5% of dams of calves that were confirmed as persistently infected (PI) also tested positive for BVD virus, strongly suggesting that they in turn were PI
Source: http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/ckfinder/userfiles/files/201210%20BVD%20Programme%20Review%20VIJ%20Oct.pdf

So if 0.6% of calves were PIs, and 8.5% of their dams were PIs, then at least 0.5% OF THE COWS THAT HAD CALVES IN 2012 are themselves live, breathing, breeding PIs.

That, as you can work out, is 1 in 200, or 50 times as common as that vet estimated.

So it is not a rare theoretical possibility, it is a real factor that the scheme has to address (and in fairness to them they have comprehensively covered it).

LostCovey

reilig wrote: »

That exact page was put on screen last night and that figure pointed out. The vet pointed out that when cattle come in contact with a TI or a PI, they become temporarily infected with BVD. This infection lasts for up to 3 weeks and after one infection they become immune to BVD themselves (ie. can no longer become a TI, but if they come in contact with a PI ot another TI can still pass BVD onto Foetus). If these cows who are immune to TI BDV are tested, the test will show them to have been infected. However, because they are immune, the will not pass it on to the foetus. In short, just because they were temporarily or transiently infected with BVD in the past, and this shows in any tests done, does not mean that the Cow is a PI or that her calf is sure to be a TI.

I'm not arguing with you. I'm just giving the information as it was given to me.

Hope it makes sense?

It doesn't really make complete sense Reilig, and we are probably boring people with an obscure point for most people. But to finish it out regardless:

If a healthy cow comes in contact with a TI/PI at the right stage of pregnancy, yes, her calf will be a PI. however she herself will test negative for BVD virus when the calf is born - she will be a "former TI" at that stage, with no detectable virus in her blood/tissue sample if tested. TIs are "Transiently infected" and they do what it says on the tin - they carry the infection for a brief period (couple of weeks at most), and go virus negative, antibody positive. They will not test virus positive by the time their calf is born. If they come in contact with a PI in late pregnancy, they are unlikely to give birth to a live PI (but they may abort).

If you have a live PI calf, and you test that calf's dam, and she is BVD virus positive,then she is herself a lifelong PI.

As I understand it!

LC

LostCovey

This is the bit where we might be misunderstanding each other

If these cows who are immune to TI BDV are tested, the test will show them to have been infected.

This is the key bit - yes, recovered TIs will have antibodies to BVD - the proteins that are effectively the immune systems soldiers to fight the virus.

However the scheme is built around testing for the virus itself and TI animals clear that quickly (using these antibodies) in a few weeks.

PI animals have had the virus since they were a foetus, and their immune system does not recognise the virus as 'foreign' and they never make antibodies against it.

It is a fascinating bug.

yellow50HX

I do find it a bit odd that the program is now becoming compulsary after a year of the voluntary program. Has there been any real data on if this works??? Would have tought there would have been a few years of work done on this before it came in to see where the long term benefits are (if any).

bob charles

BVD eradication will be worth a huge sum of money to the whole beef industry farmer side. The amount of animals that I am seeing with BVD is alarming, be they calves being born or older animal. This year of all the maiden heifers that turned up in calf after I buying them 15% - 20% of the calves had BVD. I know now my sample isnt anything to go by for a number of reasons but I reckon we have an infection rate around 3% to 5%. There is also a huge cost preventing/treating pneumonia due to BVD.It will be money well spent, unfortunately we in Ireland were a little slow off the mark as IMV this should have being happening 3 yrs ago at least.

LostConvey what do the professionals reckon the infection rate is with calves?

yellow50HX

Can't believe the figures are that high, at that rate I should have had couple of deaths from it every year. Between myself and my 3 uncles we have over 120 calves every year and I would say there has been one case of bvd in the last 5 years between us. I can understand the worry when buying in animals and the spread of disease but i still this should have been on a volounty basis for another year, if if people what to pay a premium for bvd tested animals then fine. I would be very surprised if any of our cattle tested positive next year.

bob charles

yellow50HX wrote: »

Can't believe the figures are that high, at that rate I should have had couple of deaths from it every year. Between myself and my 3 uncles we have over 120 calves every year and I would say there has been one case of bvd in the last 5 years between us. I can understand the worry when buying in animals and the spread of disease but i still this should have been on a volounty basis for another year, if if people what to pay a premium for bvd tested animals then fine. I would be very surprised if any of our cattle tested positive next year.

are your herds open or closed? there is ever chance that you have never had a calf with BVD but I suspect this not to be the case. How can you say you never had a BVD animal without testing, they dont necessary die. remember a few years ago bought a close on fat 550kg heifer. she fell away to nothing in the space of a few months, but up to that point she had being fine

whelan1

yellow50HX wrote: »

Can't believe the figures are that high, at that rate I should have had couple of deaths from it every year. Between myself and my 3 uncles we have over 120 calves every year and I would say there has been one case of bvd in the last 5 years between us. I can understand the worry when buying in animals and the spread of disease but i still this should have been on a volounty basis for another year, if if people what to pay a premium for bvd tested animals then fine. I would be very surprised if any of our cattle tested positive next year.

the calf i had that was positive was perfectly healthy in my eye, you are either commited to it or you are not... we want to rid the country of bvd and if people are in denial this wont happen... also if people didnt join the scheme because the compensation was crap, the real compensation is ridding your herd of bvd

yellow50HX

Not exactly a closed herd as we buy in a few calves each year.
I can understand why fellas that buy in a lot of cattle would say its a good idea, as it seems that they are the ones that benifit.

Anyway I'll wait till next year before I make up my mind on it. Not much I can do about it anyway

yellow50HX

whelan1 wrote: »

the calf i had that was positive was perfectly healthy in my eye, you are either commited to it or you are not... we want to rid the country of bvd and if people are in denial this wont happen... also if people didnt join the scheme because the compensation was crap, the real compensation is ridding your herd of bvd

From what has been said previously on this, vaccination doesn't seem to be great so how do we plan to ericadte it????

Will be interesting be see if how long it takes for Bvd to be eradicated or will we be doing this for years without any reducion? After all we only have a years worth of info to see if the tagging has worked

whelan1

yellow50HX wrote: »

From what has been said previously on this, vaccination doesn't seem to be great so how do we plan to ericadte it????

Will be interesting be see if how long it takes for Bvd to be eradicated or will we be doing this for years without any reducion? After all we only have a years worth of info to see if the tagging has worked

we have never vaccinated here for bvd..... i would have sold the calf on no problems if it hadnt been tested

reilig

yellow50HX wrote: »

From what has been said previously on this, vaccination doesn't seem to be great so how do we plan to ericadte it????

Its a 2 prong approach. To eradicate it, we plan to vaccinate and to remove any animals that test positive as PI's. Vaccination alone isn't enough as it will not remove the PI. However, vaccination can reduce the number of infected calves in your herd.

Just because you don't buy many in or you operate a closed herd doesn't mean that you are not at risk. Your animals could pick it up from a neighbour's animal looking across the hedge !! :eek:

greysides

LostCovey wrote: »

If a healthy cow comes in contact with a TI/PI at the right stage of pregnancy, yes, her calf will be a PI. however she herself will test negative for BVD virus when the calf is born - she will be a "former TI" at that stage, with no detectable virus in her blood/tissue sample if tested. TIs are "Transiently infected" and they do what it says on the tin - they carry the infection for a brief period (couple of weeks at most), and go virus negative, antibody positive. They will not test virus positive by the time their calf is born. If they come in contact with a PI in late pregnancy, they are unlikely to give birth to a live PI (but they may abort).

I don't think this is the case. They would be immune to BVDv from the recent contact that created the PI. That would protect the PI calf within from further exposure. Some calves are aborted after their mothers first exposure to BVDv in any case.

One of the theories about why a PI suddenly develops Mucosal Disease is that the animal is exposed to a genetically different BVDv that it doesn't resist and this virus causes the disease.

The other is that the virus within undergoes a genetic mutation and becomes virulent to the host.