VRT changes in 2013

carsfan

Anybody in the trade or otherwise have any knowledge of the changes in vrt that are being mooted for next year?
I was talking to a dealer today who said that apparently band A is being split into 4 sub bands and bands B and C are to be split into 2 sub bands, obviously all with increases from the rates charged at the moment.
He said this is interfering with plans for the new year as government will not come out and explicitly tell them so they are in limbo re. pricing and ordering etc.
Anybody got any further info?

Supergurrier

More Illegal tax would be my guess

AltAccount

That didn't take long... :rolleyes:

Supergurrier

Loving that free market tradezone oh yeaaaaa

Hey wait a....

AltAccount

OP, it's pre-budget season, the government are floating or leaking silly amounts of harebrained ideas to see which will get least resistance.

Who knows where this idea came from, but nobody can tell you if it's true or not until much closer to Budget time,.

Guy:Incognito

Was the dealer trying to get you to buy a car now to save you money out of the goodness of his heart by any chance?

bazz26

I predict an increase in motor tax. That is all.

carsfan

Dealer was not trying to make me buy now.
I was enquiring re. January and he was saying that he did not know for sure what the prices would be due to possible changes.

dr.fuzzenstein

Well, taxes are like herpes. Once you have them, you'll never get rid of them. And they only ever get worse.
So to summarise: Any tax will never go away. It will only ever increase and if you think it has gone, it was only renamed. And then jacked up.
The reason is, the economy is fooked. Any new tax and charge will only suck more money out of it. So we need more taxes and charges, because less money is taken in. And so the dance continues.
I once saw the carcass of a dead sheep in a field that had been there for several months by the look of it. I would trust that sheep more to run the country than the current government.

Hal Decks

Why speculate?
Wait for the Budget and we'll all find out.

Annual motor tax, BRW, does not come under the Budget, it being the responsibility of Local Govt and not the Min for Finance

goz83

Hal Decks wrote: »

Why speculate?
Wait for the Budget and we'll all find out.

Annual motor tax, BRW, does not come under the Budget, it being the responsibility of Local Govt and not the Min for Finance

I thought the post was about VRT and not Motor Tax. But if the Govt are slashing Local Govt/Council Budgets, that will likely spell a rise in motor tax too.

CrowdedHouse

Hal Decks wrote: »

Why speculate?
Wait for the Budget and we'll all find out.

I speculate that someone may have to order a new car with various options about now to ensure a January delivery. He would not like to discover that the new car could cost considerably more due to VRT increases.

Jellicoe

Will probably be something similar to last year.
Engine sized based taxes will go up a bit
CO2 based taxes will go up a lot more.
The gap between the two will become smaller.

Robbo

Supergurrier wrote: »

More Illegal tax would be my guess

Supergurrier wrote: »

Loving that free market tradezone oh yeaaaaa

Hey wait a....

If you ever have trouble sleeping, I suggest Craig & de Burca's book on EU Law. 10 minutes with it and you'll realise that there's slightly more to it than you think from your Junior Cert CSPE reading of Community law.

But then again, I've read on t'internet that the Eurocrats fine us eleventy billion *every* year because VRT does be illegal and this is all paid into the Swiss bank account of Jaques Delors...

R.O.R

Based on various rumours and some guess work, I have:

2013 CO2 VRT Rate CO2
A1 14% Up to 80g
A2 15% 81g-100g
A3 16% 101g-110g
A4 18% 111g-120g
B1 19% 121g-130g
B2 20% 131g-140g
C 21% 141g-155g
D 25% 156g-170g
E 28% 171g-190g
F 33% 191g-225g
G 37% 226g and over


Majority of that is guess work.

Based on that alone, and not taking any manufacturer price increases:

BMW 520d SE Auto - up by €1,264
Ford Focus 1.6Tdci Edge 90ps 5 dr - up by €208
Passat 1.6Tdi Comfortline 4dr - up by €1,052

Will be marginal increases in option pricing too.

lifer_sean

R.O.R wrote: »

Based on various rumours and some guess work, I have:

2013 CO2 VRT Rate CO2
A1 14% Up to 80g
A2 15% 81g-100g
A3 16% 101g-110g
A4 18% 111g-120g
B1 19% 121g-130g
B2 20% 131g-140g
C 21% 141g-155g
D 25% 156g-170g
E 28% 171g-190g
F 33% 191g-225g
G 37% 226g and over


Majority of that is guess work.

Based on that alone, and not taking any manufacturer price increases:

BMW 520d SE Auto - up by €1,264
Ford Focus 1.6Tdci Edge 90ps 5 dr - up by €208
Passat 1.6Tdi Comfortline 4dr - up by €1,052

Will be marginal increases in option pricing too.

Fair dues ROR, it looks like you put some effort into that reply. Ever think of applying for a job in the Dept of Finance ?

I'm going to keep a copy of that and see how close you are to the end result !

R.O.R

lifer_sean wrote: »

Fair dues ROR, it looks like you put some effort into that reply. Ever think of applying for a job in the Dept of Finance ?

I'm going to keep a copy of that and see how close you are to the end result !

Thankfully, I still had the massive spreadsheet from July 2008 so it was very handy for the estimates on what the actual increases will be, and can fairly easily be updated when new rates are announced.

carsfan

How is vrt calculated anyway?
Is it on the base price+vat?

CiniO

carsfan wrote: »

How is vrt calculated anyway?
Is it on the base price+vat?

VRT is calculated on OMSP (open market selling price).

So shockingly this is the price which not only includes vat but vrt as well.

So don't be fooled. If they say you pay 14% VRT, in reality you pay way more than that, as some of this 14% of VRT you pay on VRT.

Banks and other financial institutions are forced by government to show APR and other measures to make sure customers are not fooled by simple maths tricks.
While govenment itself is doing this simple mathematical trick to fool the drivers.

Example:
Car manufacturer want's to sell a car for 10,000
In Ireland this car is offered by the dealer for 15,375

Where did this price come from????

Dealer price = 10,000
VAT (23%) on 10,000 = 2300
VRT (f.e. 20%) on OMSP (15,375) = 3075
Total: 15,375

Everything clear.

The only detail here is, that VRT on 10,000 euro car at 20% rate costs 3075, which in fact is 30,75% rate.
So the RVR (Real VRT Rate) is 30,75% not 20% as revenue says.

carsfan

CiniO wrote: »

VRT is calculated on OMSP (open market selling price).

So shockingly this is the price which not only includes vat but vrt as well.

So don't be fooled. If they say you pay 14% VRT, in reality you pay way more than that, as some of this 14% of VRT you pay on VRT.

Banks and other financial institutions are forced by government to show APR and other measures to make sure customers are not fooled by simple maths tricks.
While govenment itself is doing this simple mathematical trick to fool the drivers.

Example:
Car manufacturer want's to sell a car for 10,000
In Ireland this car is offered by the dealer for 15,375

Where did this price come from????

Dealer price = 10,000
VAT (23%) on 10,000 = 2300
VRT (f.e. 20%) on OMSP (15,375) = 3075
Total: 15,375

Everything clear.

The only detail here is, that VRT on 10,000 euro car at 20% rate costs 3075, which in fact is 30,75% rate.
So the RVR (Real VRT Rate) is 30,75% not 20% as revenue says.

This is a complete fiddle!
I had not realised that this was the case at all but am not surprised that it is nota transparent calculation.

richkelly5

will the changes only effect new cars?

I have just moved from the north with a 2011 golf, and not eligible for transfer or residency will the changes effect me if i wait till after the budget?

Technoprisoner

richkelly5 wrote: »

will the changes only effect new cars?

I have just moved from the north with a 2011 golf, and not eligible for transfer or residency will the changes effect me if i wait till after the budget?

it will effect you too...but if you were a resident in the uk and can prove it and back it up with evidence for example payslips ect you are exempt from paying vrt.

BazCream

Ive bought a car from the North today. Its a 07 Peugeot 407 1.6hdi. Should I wait until the budget before I clear it or will it definitely cost me more to do so if I do wait?

CiniO

BazCream wrote: »

Ive bought a car from the North today. Its a 07 Peugeot 407 1.6hdi. Should I wait until the budget before I clear it or will it definitely cost me more to do so if I do wait?

You must register it here within 28 days of bringing it AFAIR, so it's not really like you've got any choice.

BazCream

Ive 30 days to register it. The budget is in 28 day, my friend Ive plenty of choices!

CrowdedHouse

The patriotic thing to do would to wait until the VRT goes up in the budget and pay more tax

BazCream

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

The patriotic thing to do would to wait until the VRT goes up in the budget and pay more tax

I agree 100%! and invite all my friends in Oz & Canada to take out loans and run up debt to come back for the gathering. Also I might inquire with the courts service if there's any bail outstanding that I can pay for Sean Quinn to try and get him out of jail. Maybe have a whip around the local sports clubs and community centres to boost Bertie and Cowens pensions. Is that patriotic enough?

Leonard Hofstadter

I thought you had to go to the Revenue Office within 24 hours of bringing the car into Ireland? Either way, I don't know why anyone would want to put it off in order to see what the budget may or may not do, it's not like cars are going to get cheaper after that budget, that's for sure.

CiniO

BazCream wrote: »

Ive 30 days to register it. The budget is in 28 day, my friend Ive plenty of choices!

My understanding is that even though budget will be released on 5th December, but if they change rates, new ones won't apply until 1st January.
So no difference for you.

For Forks Sake

BazCream wrote: »

Ive 30 days to register it. The budget is in 28 day, my friend Ive plenty of choices!

You also have to make the appointment with the NCT within 7 days of bringing the car in....

1jcdub

I'm bringing in a car next week from the UK and I'm trying to figure out what to do regarding the vrt. I know the tax will go up on the 1st of January but also the car will be a year older so the value should reduce accordingly if I'm not mistaken. So will the reduction in the value of the car be greater than the tax increase......?

larchill

I remember the 'Axe the tax' campaign by the SIMI in the '80s. The thinking then was that the high taxes on new cars were actually depressing sales so much that the tax revenue gained was actually less than would actually be the case if tax was lower! If they're not careful, the same could happen again. The rates do require rebalancing though - too many fancy cars in band A & B!:D