How best to run a half marathon?

boucher

I'm running a half mara this weekend. My PB for 10km is 39.30 and for the one and only half (Connemara) is 1.36.

I would like to do sub 1.30 (just about) but not quite sure what's the best strategy.
Try and stay a steady pace throughout of about 4.18-4.20m/km, run the first 10km faster than the second (42min vs 45 min) or save energy to finish with a fast last 5km?

Any suggestions much appreciated!

Gambas

I'm like a slow version of you - wondering the exact same thing but aiming for about 1:40+ (plus as little as possible!)

I'm hoping to split it into 2 8k's and a 5k. Take it handy for the first 8, then see how I feel and hopefully be comfortable enough to knock about 10 sec per km off and then burn what is left, if anything off in the last 5. It's my first half so I'm winging it.

Clearlier

Even pace the whole way through.

RayCun

Clearlier wrote: »

Even pace the whole way through.

+1

mrgardener

Don't try and run certain sections faster and other sections slower. Its a long run so try and run at a steady even pace. Keep an eye out for the pace runners (if there is any) and see if you can stay with them!
Best of luck!

MrCreosote

If there's no 1:30 pacer, then go

Faster (slightly)for a couple of ks- steady for most- empty the tank the last couple of ks.

boucher

Thanks for the replies!
This might sound like a stupid question but how do you recognise a pace maker?

RayCun

Which race are you running?

boucher

MrCreosote wrote: »

If there's no 1:30 pacer, then go

Faster (slightly)for a couple of ks- steady for most- empty the tank the last couple of ks.

Ya, was hoping to go all out the last 1.5-2km if I can.

Will find it hard not to run the first 5km too fast. Will keep an eye on my watch.

boucher

RayCun wrote: »

Which race are you running?

Galway which is flat afaik, My last half was Connemara but have done a few 10kms and sprint/olympic tris in between.

RayCun

Pretty sure Galway don't have pacemakers - problem solved.

Krusty_Clown

MrCreosote wrote: »

If there's no 1:30 pacer, then go

Faster (slightly)for a couple of ks- steady for most- empty the tank the last couple of ks.

Why would you want to go faster for a couple of kilometers? Are you referring to the first few kilometers?

Tipp man running

Use the first mile to get up to race pace, not faster, maintain race pace till later in the race (judge how you feel around 10miles) and then push on home...should give you a negative split and a new pb all going well.

boucher

Tipp man running wrote: »

Use the first mile to get up to race pace, not faster, maintain race pace till later in the race (judge how you feel around 10miles) and then push on home...should give you a negative split and a new pb all going well.

Gonna do that so. Hope I don't push it at 5km and burn out with a km to go thou! Will see how I'm feeling I suppose.

spurscormac

Just to throw you some more, note that down along the Prom/Salthill area it can get very windy, so you may have to contend with severe head & tail winds at various sections. You might want to consider a plan that takes that into consideration ahead of time, so you if it's blowing a gale you have an idea on pace in those conditions.

Note - To give you idea of the effect, I was out for a training run a couple of weeks ago along the prom & on past the golf course - into the head wind, pushing hard enough to do a 7:30 pace, turned around the caravan park & coming in the road with the wind behind us suddenly we were sub-6 pace with little effort.

boucher

spurscormac wrote: »

Just to throw you some more, note that down along the Prom/Salthill area it can get very windy, so you may have to contend with severe head & tail winds at various sections. You might want to consider a plan that takes that into consideration ahead of time, so you if it's blowing a gale you have an idea on pace in those conditions.

Note - To give you idea of the effect, I was out for a training run a couple of weeks ago along the prom & on past the golf course - into the head wind, pushing hard enough to do a 7:30 pace, turned around the caravan park & coming in the road with the wind behind us suddenly we were sub-6 pace with little effort.

Completely forgot about that. Thanks for the heads up!

I suppose it might balance out so as you run with/against it. Hopefully at least.

wrstan

By my calculation, you would need to run 04:17 min/k to achieve a time of 1:29:59

But in my experience if you're planning on a significant milestone time you should allow for a decent margin for error to account for hills, wind, a difficult patch, race congestion, split markers that are not exact, garmin error etc. I would suggest a target pace of at least 04:14 min/k. If everything goes exactly to plan (which rarely happens) this would bring you home in 01:28:57 giving you a minute contingency, which is not a whole heap!

For the last HM I ran, I wrote the 5k splits on my arm which I kept as a target, so to achieve a consistent pace of 04:14 it would be:
5k - 21:10
10k - 42:20
15k - 1:03:30
20k - 1:24:40

Then just open up for the last km!

If there are particularly hilly or difficult sections of the course you can adjust the time for that particular 5k split, just remember if you add time to one split, you will have to take it off another. And always be prepared to do some serious talking to yourself somewhere between 13 and 18km!

Good luck with it anyway.

boucher

wrstan wrote: »

By my calculation, you would need to run 04:17 min/k to achieve a time of 1:29:59

But in my experience if you're planning on a significant milestone time you should allow for a decent margin for error to account for hills, wind, a difficult patch, race congestion, split markers that are not exact, garmin error etc. I would suggest a target pace of at least 04:14 min/k. If everything goes exactly to plan (which rarely happens) this would bring you home in 01:28:57 giving you a minute contingency, which is not a whole heap!

For the last HM I ran, I wrote the 5k splits on my arm which I kept as a target, so to achieve a consistent pace of 04:14 it would be:
5k - 21:10
10k - 42:20
15k - 1:03:30
20k - 1:24:40

Then just open up for the last km!

If there are particularly hilly or difficult sections of the course you can adjust the time for that particular 5k split, just remember if you add time to one split, you will have to take it off another. And always be prepared to do some serious talking to yourself somewhere between 13 and 18km!

Good luck with it anyway.

Thanks a million for the info.

4.14 is doable but will be tough for me. Thankfully it's a flat course but as has been mentioned the wind/breeze could be a serious factor.

Those splits look doable under normal circumstances, will boil down to race day conditions. Whatever summer we had is well and truly over.

wrstan

If you feel like those splits are doable, then don't let them limit you. It all depends on your experience over that distance. You definitely don't want to be picking yourself up off the floor at 18k.

Let us know how you get on!

MrCreosote

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Why would you want to go faster for a couple of kilometers? Are you referring to the first few kilometers?

It seems to be the pacing strategy that gives the fastest times for elites. I'd be referring to the first two ks or so, and not flat out, maybe 10s/k faster than the target pace.

I also gives a little buffer for things that might go wrong- shoelaces opening, cap blowing off, that sort of thing.

ebixa82

MrCreosote wrote: »

It seems to be the pacing strategy that gives the fastest times for elites. I'd be referring to the first two ks or so, and not flat out, maybe 10s/k faster than the target pace.

I also gives a little buffer for things that might go wrong- shoelaces opening, cap blowing off, that sort of thing.

I tend to do this too. I find it takes a bit of pressure off and doesn't have a massive impact on energy levels as it's the very start of the race.

wrstan

I find my first k is always faster than my planned pace no matter how hard I try to manage it, whatever the race. I put that down to getting a bit carried away with excitement of the start. I just accept that now and build it into my race plan.

When running a HM though I try and run the first 5k as close to my target race pace as possible, just to try to build up a rythm as early as possible and get the muscle memory onto auto pilot.

Of course the holy grail would be to get to a point where you are so confident in your own abilities and experienced in your ability to pace yourself that you can race entirely by feel, and forget the "plan". I'm a bit off that yet!

Krusty_Clown

MrCreosote wrote: »

It seems to be the pacing strategy that gives the fastest times for elites. I'd be referring to the first two ks or so, and not flat out, maybe 10s/k faster than the target pace.

I also gives a little buffer for things that might go wrong- shoelaces opening, cap blowing off, that sort of thing.

I see a number of problems with this strategy:

• When you run a half marathon, typically you are doing so at approximately your lactate threshold level. Going out for the first few kilometers at a pace faster than this might push you above your lactate threshold level, and come back to bite you in the ass 30-40 minutes later.
• If you go out at a pace faster than planned for a couple of kms, then it may be difficult to slow to your planned pace (look at the number of people who blow-up in Edinburgh every year, after the downhill start).
• You haven't trained for this pace. Why would you want to disregard your training and lead out your goal race at this pace?
• Banking time is just not a good idea in any long distance endurance race, except where there are extenuating circumstances (e.g. hills or head-wind in the second half of the course). I have never read any recommendations for this practice, whether elite or otherwise, but I stand to be corrected.
• Elites are trying to win the race. Their goal is slightly different and as such, need to accommodate race tactics, such as staying in touch with the leading pack, race surges and other nuances associated with racing to win. This isn't the case for someone trying to break 90 minutes.

At the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with going out too fast. Everyone start a race full of adrenaline, and surrounded by other crazed bloodthirsty runners, finds themselves sprinting the first 300-400m, but the important thing is to get into your groove as soon as possible. Find a group or pack running at your target pace. Find some space. But don't plan to run the first few kms too fast. Instead, plan to get into your comfort zone as quickly as possible.

MrCreosote

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I see a number of problems with this strategy:

• When you run a half marathon, typically you are doing so at approximately your lactate threshold level. Going out for the first few kilometers at a pace faster than this might push you above your lactate threshold level, and come back to bite you in the ass 30-40 minutes later.
• If you go out at a pace faster than planned for a couple of kms, then it may be difficult to slow to your planned pace (look at the number of people who blow-up in Edinburgh every year, after the downhill start).
• You haven't trained for this pace. Why would you want to disregard your training and lead out your goal race at this pace?
• Banking time is just not a good idea in any long distance endurance race, except where there are extenuating circumstances (e.g. hills or head-wind in the second half of the course). I have never read any recommendations for this practice, whether elite or otherwise, but I stand to be corrected.
• Elites are trying to win the race. Their goal is slightly different and as such, need to accommodate race tactics, such as staying in touch with the leading pack, race surges and other nuances associated with racing to win. This isn't the case for someone trying to break 90 minutes.

At the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with going out too fast. Everyone start a race full of adrenaline, and surrounded by other crazed bloodthirsty runners, finds themselves sprinting the first 300-400m, but the important thing is to get into your groove as soon as possible. Find a group or pack running at your target pace. Find some space. But don't plan to run the first few kms too fast. Instead, plan to get into your comfort zone as quickly as possible.

I take your points, but most people (myself included) don't know their lactate threshold pace, and even if they do it can vary depending on other factors. Edinburgh is a marathon too, which is a whole different ball game.

I think people do bank time though. If say you're aiming for sub-40 10k, nobody is going to aim for 4 minute ks exactly in case something minor goes wrong

Krusty_Clown

MrCreosote wrote: »

I take your points, but most people (myself included) don't know their lactate threshold pace, and even if they do it can vary depending on other factors. Edinburgh is a marathon too, which is a whole different ball game.

I think people do bank time though. If say you're aiming for sub-40 10k, nobody is going to aim for 4 minute ks exactly in case something minor goes wrong

As a simple rule of thumb, your lactate threshold pace is typically somewhere around your half marathon pace. In a 10k race (or shorter) you will always run faster than your Lactate threshold level, but it doesn't matter as you will typically be finished the race by the time it has a significant impact. As such, from a strategy perspective, the half marathon has a lot more in common with the marathon (though typically in the marathon you run at a pace slower lower than your lactate threshold (unless you run the first few miles too fast ). I'll leave you with some choice quotes, covering a range of distances:

Some quotes:

Runner's World wrote:

No banking. The idea of "banking" time--getting several minutes ahead of goal pace so you can draw on that time later if needed--is bankrupt. The opposite usually occurs. Every minute you get ahead of goal pace will probably cost you 2 minutes by the end, due to fatigue. Even pace is best, or slightly slower than race pace.

Runners Connect wrote:

Putting “Time in the Bank” is Bad!
If the recent financial crisis has showed us anything, it’s that banks are evil. I’m just kidding, but in all seriousness, the theory of “putting time in the bank” during the first thirteen miles of a marathon race is critically flawed. The bank will take your money and leave you crashing the last 10k just as it did the stock market.
I’m not sure where the “time in the bank” theory came from, but the strategy has lead to the demise of more marathon runners than any other source.

Roy Stevenson wrote:

10K and Half Marathon Racing Tip: Start Smart
How many of us are guilty of flying off at a suicidal pace in the first mile or two of a 10K because we were so excited? As Ann Armstrong says, "The longer the distance the more energy conservation and muscle recovery come in to play. Spend it early and you will be miserable in the end"....your early pace must be slower than your desired race pace, at least for the first mile.

Eagle AC wrote:

Sweet Jesus don't "start fast" due to the adrenaline of the race, as you'll regret it around mile 20. Start slower than you think or feel
you should. Your first mile should be NO FASTER than your average intended pace. Don't be tempted to start the race quickly
or waste energy weaving through the slower runners. However many you overtake, there will be many more in front of you - all for a
few yards. It is better to go slow for the first mile and use this as a warm up.

ebixa82

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

MrCreosote wrote: »

I take your points, but most people (myself included) don't know their lactate threshold pace, and even if they do it can vary depending on other factors. Edinburgh is a marathon too, which is a whole different ball game.

I think people do bank time though. If say you're aiming for sub-40 10k, nobody is going to aim for 4 minute ks exactly in case something minor goes wrong

As a simple rule of thumb, your lactate threshold pace is typically somewhere around your half marathon pace. In a 10k race (or shorter) you will always run faster than your Lactate threshold level, but it doesn't matter as you will typically be finished the race by the time it has a significant impact. As such, from a strategy perspective, the half marathon has a lot more in common with the marathon (though typically in the marathon you run at a pace slower lower than your lactate threshold (unless you run the first few miles too fast ). I'll leave you with some choice quotes, covering a range of distances:

Some quotes:

Runner&#39 wrote: »

No banking. The idea of "banking" time--getting several minutes ahead of goal pace so you can draw on that time later if needed--is bankrupt. The opposite usually occurs. Every minute you get ahead of goal pace will probably cost you 2 minutes by the end, due to fatigue. Even pace is best, or slightly slower than race pace.

Runners Connect wrote:

Putting “Time in the Bank” is Bad!
If the recent financial crisis has showed us anything, it’s that banks are evil. I’m just kidding, but in all seriousness, the theory of “putting time in the bank” during the first thirteen miles of a marathon race is critically flawed. The bank will take your money and leave you crashing the last 10k just as it did the stock market.
I’m not sure where the “time in the bank” theory came from, but the strategy has lead to the demise of more marathon runners than any other source.

Roy Stevenson wrote:

10K and Half Marathon Racing Tip: Start Smart
How many of us are guilty of flying off at a suicidal pace in the first mile or two of a 10K because we were so excited? As Ann Armstrong says, "The longer the distance the more energy conservation and muscle recovery come in to play. Spend it early and you will be miserable in the end"....your early pace must be slower than your desired race pace, at least for the first mile.

Eagle AC wrote:

Sweet Jesus don't "start fast" due to the adrenaline of the race, as you'll regret it around mile 20. Start slower than you think or feel
you should. Your first mile should be NO FASTER than your average intended pace. Don't be tempted to start the race quickly
or waste energy weaving through the slower runners. However many you overtake, there will be many more in front of you - all for a
few yards. It is better to go slow for the first mile and use this as a warm up.

Excellent post.

MrCreosote

I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think a half marathon has far more in common with a 10k than with a marathon. And much less chance that pushing slightly harder at the start will come back to bite you at the end. I'm not talking minutes here.

Call it what you want- but a person running at 1:29 pace who wants to go under 1:30 is "banking".

RayCun

MrCreosote wrote: »

Call it what you want- but a person running at 1:29 pace who wants to go under 1:30 is "banking".

I think if you start at 1.29 pace because you expect to finish at 1.31 pace - if your race strategy is a positive split - that is banking time.
If you start at 1.29 pace and expect to maintain that throughout, but you know that you might have to make a toilet stop/tie a shoelace/get sent the wrong way/get forced off the racing line at some point in the race, that's leaving yourself a margin of error.

Krusty_Clown

MrCreosote wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think a half marathon has far more in common with a 10k than with a marathon. And much less chance that pushing slightly harder at the start will come back to bite you at the end. I'm not talking minutes here.

Call it what you want- but a person running at 1:29 pace who wants to go under 1:30 is "banking".

We may have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, a 10k is a different beastie to a half marathon for the reason I outlined above. If you go out too fast in a 10k, you can complete the race before that mistake comes back to bite you in the a$$. This isn't the case with a half marathon (unless you happen to be one of those guys who can complete it in around 60 minutes). I've paced 5 or 6 sub-90 minute half marathons (three in Dublin, one in Kildare and one in Clontarf), and time and time again, the guys who go out too fast crawl over the finish line, typically having missed their targets. The runners who stick with the pacers (usually within +- 5 seconds of goal pace) typically push on from mile 12 for a nice negative split. I have also seen consistent behaviour with the 5-6 marathons I have paced (it's interesting having a birds-eye view of people trying to meet their targets).

A person aiming to complete a race in 1:29 is aiming to complete the race in 1:29. They are not banking time. Banking time is running some portion of the early part of the race faster than goal pace, in the belief that this will ultimately create time-savings for the runner later in the race.

spurscormac

Looks like tomorrow will be one of those rare occasions where there's no wind in salthill...
weather forceast

Even pace it should be then.

TJC

Listen to Krusty and co!!

I've done 3 half marathons....blew up in first 2 and really suffered the last 3 miles in both. Ran the third nice and steady (bit below race pace for 5 miles) and got my pb....without that absolute horrible feeling u get when ur legs are gone... It usually takes a few steady miles before you actually feel good in a race.. Once u get into ur stride you can start making up time, and if feeling good can even push on further at the end...
(or just go hell for leather from the start )

newbyrunner

I think the answer you're looking for will be on tv at 9 tomorrow morning.

Krusty_Clown

newbyrunner wrote: »

I think the answer you're looking for will be on tv at 9 tomorrow morning.

Club Disney, Supernanny US, or WWE Superstars?

boucher

Thanks for all the advice, debate etc.

Will do my best not to go too fast for first km or so, keep it at steady pace all the way through and then, depending how I'm feeling try and burst on through the last km or two.

Hopefully the wind and sea breeze won't be too much of an issue.

Ceepo

Ask yourself in the fist mile can I keep this pace going for another 12ml, I'd the anser is no, back off a bit and just keeping asking yourself the same questions as the race is progressing. Just be honest with the answer, and you will get an honest result

boucher

Perfect conditions, great weather and great course.

As was suggested I didn't bank any minutes, did 4.12 for the first km and my watch was telling me avg. was 4.13 for km 21.

I did 1.29 something, waiting on proper results to be posted.

Thanks again for all the tips.

Kilkenny14

Well done Boucher. I did my first first half marathon today and kept a steady pace finished at 2 hours, 4 minutes and 50 seconds. I only suffered in the last k so it went well.

wrstan

Well done boucher, thanks for letting us know. Sounds like you ran a well paced and well planned race!
Good on ya!:cool: