Garda Vetting

yomchi

In a briefing letter today from IMAC it states that "After February 2013 it will be an offence in law if you permit anyone to teach, or help to teach young people or vulnerable adults any sport or leisure activity without them having been Garda Vetted"

It also stated that they have expelled ten clubs who have refused to co-operate with GV procedure within IMAC.

Question is, how will this effect those systems and styles that have no IMAC recognition? I did hear IMAC refused MMA membership. Will this mean a number of clubs closing down over the next while?

It would be sad to see that happen due to bureaucracy

CIARAN_BOYLE

yomchi wrote: »

In a briefing letter today from IMAC it states that "After February 2013 it will be an offence in law if you permit anyone to teach, or help to teach young people or vulnerable adults any sport or leisure activity without them having been Garda Vetted"

It also stated that they have expelled ten clubs who have refused to co-operate with GV procedure within IMAC.

Question is, how will this effect those systems and styles that have no IMAC recognition? I did hear IMAC refused MMA membership. Will this mean a number of clubs closing down over the next while?

It would be sad to see that happen due to bureaucracy

After Febuary 2013 any club or organisation or organisation of clubs teaching young people will need to apply to An Garda Siochana registering themselves to be apart of the vetting scheme. They do not need to be a member of IMAC to be vetted by the Gardaí. Every instructor and/or assistant dealing with young people will need to be vetted by the Gardaí. They do not need to be IMAC registered instructors to be vetted.
http://www.garda.ie/FAQ/Default.aspx?FAQCategory=36#FAQ2724

Clive

As far as I know this bill hasn't been enacted yet - do people know something I don't?

yomchi

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

After Febuary 2013 any club or organisation or organisation of clubs teaching young people will need to apply to An Garda Siochana registering themselves to be apart of the vetting scheme. They do not need to be a member of IMAC to be vetted by the Gardaí. Every instructor and/or assistant dealing with young people will need to be vetted by the Gardaí. They do not need to be IMAC registered instructors to be vetted.
http://www.garda.ie/FAQ/Default.aspx?FAQCategory=36#FAQ2724

Yes exactly, my point however (i forgot to make it ) was that waiting times to go through the GV Unit can exceed 6 to 8 months.

Also mentioned in the briefing was this:
"We have recently been informed that the timescale for the implentation of the National Vetting Bureau Bill 2012 is as follows.
- 2nd stage of the bill in the dail - September- committee stage - October
- Passed into law by - December + 3 months delay before implementation (Mar 13th)

Now I've no idea how accurate that time scale is but if it's on the button it will leave anyone applying through the Gardaí directly under pressure to get it done.

OLDMAN1

i sent in the vetting form 2 years ago and i am still waiting, i have been told some are waiting even longer...

yomchi

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

i sent in the vetting form 2 years ago and i am still waiting, i have been told some are waiting even longer...

Two years? Jaysis, was that through IMAC?

Pride Fighter

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

i sent in the vetting form 2 years ago and i am still waiting, i have been told some are waiting even longer...

Go to your local TD and get them to ask a parliamentary question about the delay. It'll be sorted in a matter of weeks then.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Is the Garda vetting for people working with U18s or younger age groups.

If its U18s college clubs will have to be carefull and make sure that they get DOBs and that everyone is over 18 because of the turnover in senior students (who could easily be deemed as helping to teach).

yomchi

Vulnerable young adults and people under 18 as far as I know.

Doug Cartel

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

If its U18s college clubs will have to be carefull and make sure that they get DOBs and that everyone is over 18 because of the turnover in senior students (who could easily be deemed as helping to teach).

I run a college club. We have to get vetting on coaches. Senior students don't matter, as long as they're not actually in charge of the class.

Chris Dowling

This has been on the table for years now with most clubs and reputable instructors being aware of the time table to implementation, most clubs within in IMAC ( which is the sports council recognised body for martial arts in Ireland) had completed the first stage of registration ( registration of all chief and senior instructors) by Dec 2012 and the second stage was implemented this year with other club instructors registered, any reputAble club should have no problem with this as at the end of the day its to ensure a safe training environment or all our students junior and senior alike, I got my own Vetting back within 5 weeks.
I have had vetting for under jobs so is completely understandable and reasonable to have the same for being a martial arts instructor, so not getting vetting will make it appear as if you have something to hide.

Kungfu

I have in the past been an instructor. At the time I was an IMAC registered and Garda vetted martial arts instructor. Due to work and family commitments I no longer teach classes. However I have a young son and another child on the way. I will do what I can to pass on my art to my children. No bureaucrats, politicians or cops can stop me doing that. As for those filth bags who have made all this Garda vetting red tape necessary, I would love to give them a once off ( if you catch my drift) lesson in my particulatr Art. They are the very scum of the Earth and it is my personal philosophy that anybody who uses martial arts as a cover for such vile acts should be dealt with decisively by a martial artist. Am I preaching vigilantism? Yes! In the meantime Garda vetting may help weed out some of the scum. But bureaucrats can't stop martial arts. They can only drive the Arts underground or behind closed doors. Mao tried it. The Ching tried it. The Brazilian slave owners tried it. They all failed. THe Martial Arts needs its own code of honour, whereby those scum who harm kids and other vulnerable members of society are dealt with.

Kungfu

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

i sent in the vetting form 2 years ago and i am still waiting, i have been told some are waiting even longer...

This is the bureaucratic way. Good and well meaning instructors will be left in limbo, unable to teach because the Garda vetting hasn't come back. You have to remember that Garda vetting doesn't only deal with martial arts and sports. You need it in order to work in many occupations eg security, child care worker and so on. That's a lot of vetting. But don't blame the cops. Blame the scumbags who have brought this all about to begin with.

How often does this need to be renewed? I got mine last year.

Kungfu

Been a while since I had it but I think it's every 2 years? Or is it every 3? IMAC can tell you.

yomchi

5 years

thelibertyboy

What happens if your teaching in a club and its not a part of imac for example there is loads of kickboxing associations who are not akai what happens to them ?

Chris Dowling

1stly AKAI doesn't exist anymore it's Kickboxing Ireland KBI. 2ndly IMAC is the recognised body for martial arts in this country by the government and sports council, that's all martial arts not just Kickboxing regardless of Style or Organisiation its not part of KBI but all KBI clubs are registered with IMAC .As far as I know this new tightening of regulations just means the Garda vetting procedure gets streamlined by having all go through IMAC instead of the current procedure which goes through different stations depending on where you are based and the organisation your in.

thelibertyboy

Sorry Kickboxing ireland is not the only kickboxing association in ireland ikf and IKF ,iska and other ones just in reference to kickboxing what if you are under lets say iska how does that work ?

Chris Dowling

thelibertyboy wrote: »

Sorry Kickboxing ireland is not the only kickboxing association in ireland ikf and IKF ,iska and other ones just in reference to kickboxing what if you are under lets say iska how does that work ?

You seem to be a little confused here , nobody said KBI was the only kickboxing organisation in the country. I presume the reputable clubs with in the organisations will comply with the regulation and have Garda vetting.

( The club I am a member of is a member of ! IKF, ISKA, IKF, KBI and we have our Vetting completed since last year)

thelibertyboy

Chris Dowling wrote: »

You seem to be a little confused here , nobody said KBI was the only kickboxing organisation in the country. I presume the reputable clubs with in the organisations will comply with the regulation and have Garda vetting.

( The club I am a member of is a member of ! IKF, ISKA, IKF, KBI and we have our Vetting completed since last year)

I know some clubs who don't want to be a part of Kickboxing Ireland and who are part of the others I'm vetted and other instructors I know are and im a instructor in a kickboxing ireland club to I'm just wondering do u have to be a part of imac or Kickboxing Ireland to be cleared to teach ?? Thanks

Niall Keane

thelibertyboy wrote: »

I know some clubs who don't want to be a part of Kickboxing Ireland and who are part of the others I'm vetted and other instructors I know are and im a instructor in a kickboxing ireland club to I'm just wondering do u have to be a part of imac or Kickboxing Ireland to be cleared to teach ?? Thanks

No one has a monopoly on "Garda Vetting", I got mine done through UCD who employ me to coach their Tai Chi Club. it would seem that large bodies like universities have a fast track mechanism.

I know charity volunteers have to be vetted, and know someone who is responsible for such in a Dublin charity. it would be ridiculous to suggest that they woul all have to go through a single national charity.

From what I'm hearing, individuals are having a hard time, waiting 2-3 years without response.

This is more an inditement of the system, it's in place to protect children and vunerable adults, not to facilitate a monopolisation of control mechanisms given to a single organisation seeking vetting.

It is indeed a grey area, regarding responsibility / liability should an incident occur where vetting was already been applied for. Ultimately if an organisation presents applications in goood time (and years in advance would seem reasonable) for vetting and the state fails to have in place an adequate mechanism, much like priory hall and the failure of the councils to adequately have building control implemented, the state may end up financially liable in a civil action along with the offender of course, who will in any case face criminal proceedings.

It would be prudent of governing bodies not to issue coach Certs without vetting, however this does not take into account those already certified, unless annual certification is required. Again this is not openly understood by the general public. Which could lead to failure of the mechanism.

Again we are seeing the (financially risk averse) state try to cover its ass, with band-aid policies. A state that cared would ensure and facilitate the implimentation of such regulations with standardised and structured mechanisms. I use the word "care" because as it stands, with no standard structure for vetting such as planning permission in buildings, which has time limits etc., I believe te state is failing in its "duty of care" towards children and vunerable adults. There again our state is only continuing on from its disgraceful failures in its entire history up to the present towards this group.

Chris Dowling

Copy of the bill as it stands

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2012/7112/b7112d.pdf

Chris Dowling

Up-Date On National Vetting Bureau Bill 2012.

The National Vetting Bureau Bill has been passed by the Dail and has been signed by the President - So it is now an Act of Law.
The Department of Justice today confirmed that they are likely to Commence the implementation of the Act from the 1st MArch 2013 - but they said the final decision on that date rests with the Minister.

It will be interesting to see what some clubs do now, I personally know of two clubs in diff parts of the country which sprang up in the last couple years with so called instructors going from colour belts to 3rd dans so if that's how the treat their belt qualifications I can just imagine how they will deal with this!

Unpossible

Its not quite as simple as just writing to the Garda Vetting office. I wrote to them and their reply was that individual clubs cannot be vetted directly and that we would have to go through someone who was pre-approved to take in the vetting forms (something to do with data protection and privacy I think).
They recommended I contact someone in IMAC about it, it was just before christmas and I've lost the letter so I'm not sure who it was I was supposed to contact in it.

Is it possible to be vetted without having to join IMAC ? I'm not sure we could join as they don't have HanMooDo as a system for us to join in their applicaiton form.

Niall Keane

Hmmmmm....

Just a thought....

So Irish Sporta Council and therefore government only recognise imac?

Gardai refer MA clubs to get vetted through Imac? (From above posts)

Imac refuse to deal with or recognise MMA and some others

MMA clubs exist in nearly every large town in Ireland

Therefore no MMA club with members younger than 23 / 25? Will be acting within the law?

Surely if imac wish to be a vetting body they must open doors to all? Or how can any MMA gym be expected to comply with regs that do not offer them a process of compliance, its like saying your tv must be liscenced but not selling such a liscence anywhere. Another half thought out window dressing farce! But i guess it keeps some bureaucrats in soft jobs.

Is there something im not seeing?

Unpossible

Niall Keane wrote: »

Gardai refer MA clubs to get vetted through Imac? (From above posts)

Imac refuse to deal with or recognise MMA and some others

To be fair, they only told me who dealt with the vetting for IMAC, and with the chaos that is christmas in my house (thanks to my two little kids) I can't find said letter now to email her. So prehaps they will take the forms as they are just passing them to the vetting unit. If someone has the contact details for the IMAC person who takes in the forms, please let me know.

I need to get down to my local station at some point, as they didn't say the person in IMAC were the only person who could take it. They just said they can only take the forms from people who have been approved by them and suggest her. Maybe an approved person from another group could take it in.

silat liam

Unpossible wrote: »

Its not quite as simple as just writing to the Garda Vetting office. I wrote to them and their reply was that individual clubs cannot be vetted directly and that we would have to go through someone who was pre-approved to take in the vetting forms (something to do with data protection and privacy I think).
They recommended I contact someone in IMAC about it, it was just before christmas and I've lost the letter so I'm not sure who it was I was supposed to contact in it.

Is it possible to be vetted without having to join IMAC ? I'm not sure we could join as they don't have HanMooDo as a system for us to join in their applicaiton form.

We were told the same by the Garda Vetting Office, and there only couple silat groups in Ireland, so this is going to be a confusing time.

30rock

Regarding MMA clubs most i suspect that most would have one or two core arts as their base. Boxing or BJJ for example so the instructors of those arts could register that way either with the IMAC or some other relevent governing body.

If you are part of a large organisation can that organisation not become recognised by the new authority and then submit the applications for it's members directly?

James

boxer.fan

Any organisation can apply for garda vetting at the moment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is telling porkies. If your organisation has only applied recently, their application will not be dealt with for quite a long time, possibly even a year or two. It also seems that the vetting office will not be taking any more applications until the current backlog has been dealt with. Therefore, the fact that this act is now law is irrelevant. There can be no prosecutions until the vetting office has their house in order.

Unpossible

boxer.fan wrote: »

Any organisation can apply for garda vetting at the moment. Anyone who tells you otherwise is telling porkies. If your organisation has only applied recently, their application will not be dealt with for quite a long time, possibly even a year or two.

The letter stated that we weren't going to be vetted directly. It was signed by the head of the garda vetting unit, so I can't see how arguing with him will change this.

Deisekickboxing

more politics and interfering i'd like to know , Who vets the guards ?

Chris Dowling

Deisekickboxing wrote: »

more politics and interfering i'd like to know , Who vets the guards ?

Seems irrevelent to the point of this thread, but when you apply for the Garda your vetted and your imediate family is also!

Simple question would you leave your own children(if you have any) in a creche with people who wouldn't comply to the regulations of being Garda vetted? Well leaving them in a martial arts club is the same, reputable instructors have nothing to fear and no reason not to comply.

boxer.fan

Bikersare wrote: »

I know it might be a bit off topic but I'm in a real mess , last night a friend and I were standing around the corner of a fast food place my friend was smoking a joint of cannabis and I was standing with him while he smoked it. An unmarked Garda car pulled up my friend threw the rest of the joint on the ground before they had time to see him smoking it . They got out of the car and asked which one of use were smoking the joint at first I said neither of us were but after a few minutes of them accusing both of us of "stinking of hash" my friend owned up to it being his joint they then searched both of us and didnt find anything they took both are names and addresses and put them in there notebooks . I didnt sign anything but I know that they though I was smoking it aswell. Will I get a summons in the post and will it pop up on there system now that I "smoke weed"

A bit off topic??
Say no to drugs young man / woman!! Take it as a lesson learned & move on!

pablohoney87

Bikersare wrote: »

I know it might be a bit off topic but I'm in a real mess , last night a friend and I were standing around the corner of a fast food place my friend was smoking a joint of cannabis and I was standing with him while he smoked it. An unmarked Garda car pulled up my friend threw the rest of the joint on the ground before they had time to see him smoking it . They got out of the car and asked which one of use were smoking the joint at first I said neither of us were but after a few minutes of them accusing both of us of "stinking of hash" my friend owned up to it being his joint they then searched both of us and didnt find anything they took both are names and addresses and put them in there notebooks . I didnt sign anything but I know that they though I was smoking it aswell. Will I get a summons in the post and will it pop up on there system now that I "smoke weed"

How'd I miss that?
This has nothing to do with Garda Vetting for martial arts clubs. Best take maybe to legal discussion.

Deisekickboxing

Chris Dowling wrote: »

Seems irrevelent to the point of this thread, but when you apply for the Garda your vetted and your imediate family is also!

Simple question would you leave your own children(if you have any) in a creche with people who wouldn't comply to the regulations of being Garda vetted? Well leaving them in a martial arts club is the same, reputable instructors have nothing to fear and no reason not to comply.

so tell me this? if some random nonce say from eastside eu comes here opens a gym and then to be to be vetted? seeing he has evaded any conviction in his homeland what good will gard vetting be other than having his basic details on a government information database.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Deisekickboxing wrote: »

so tell me this? if some random nonce say from eastside eu comes here opens a gym and then to be to be vetted? seeing he has evaded any conviction in his homeland what good will gard vetting be other than having his basic details on a government information database.

if he wants to teach kids or vulnerable persons then he does have to be vetted even if only to check that he doesn't have a conviction somewhere