Annual leave question

Klurton

Hi all

So, I have worked with a company for 7 years. The thing is, it was usually Summer work and the odd bit of weekend work, so the work itself was quite sporadic. Having said that I did work full summers, full time hours.
I haven't worked there in about 2 years but I am still on their books.

Anyway, as I was quite young when I started, I didn't think too much about my entitlements. I am handing in my notice to this place soon, but it dawned on me recently that to the best of my knowledge I was never given holiday pay...

So, here's my question! Am I entitled to that pay still?? I know the pay usually has to be administered within the same working year, so how would this work?
And how would I even prove I'd never gotten my annual leave pay if they deny it?

Any advice here would be much appreciated, thanks!

edellc

Klurton wrote: »

Hi all

So, I have worked with a company for 7 years. The thing is, it was usually Summer work and the odd bit of weekend work, so the work itself was quite sporadic. Having said that I did work full summers, full time hours.
I haven't worked there in about 2 years but I am still on their books.

Anyway, as I was quite young when I started, I didn't think too much about my entitlements. I am handing in my notice to this place soon, but it dawned on me recently that to the best of my knowledge I was never given holiday pay...

So, here's my question! Am I entitled to that pay still?? I know the pay usually has to be administered within the same working year, so how would this work?
And how would I even prove I'd never gotten my annual leave pay if they deny it?

Any advice here would be much appreciated, thanks!

No your entitled to nothing, annual leave is just that, and you take it in the year it is built up, you can not go back 7 years asking for a refund. You can not prove anything as your not entitled to anything Op. Next job you get take your leave for the relevant year.

Part time holiday pay is worked out like this - for future reference

Part-time employees in Ireland are entitled to annual leave consisting of 8% of all the hours they work, subject to a maximum of 4 working weeks in the leave year.
In order for a part-time worker to qualify for a public holiday, he/she must work at least 40 hours in the 5-week period that immediately precedes the public holiday.

As for handing in your notice OP, you havent worked in the company for 2yrs there really is no need to hand in notice tbh, if and when you get another job simply ring the tax office 1890 33 34 25 and inform them of your pps number and give the details of your new employer, then your tax cert will be issued to you and your employer its as easy and simple as that.

Klurton

edellc wrote: »

No your entitled to nothing, annual leave is just that, and you take it in the year it is built up, you can not go back 7 years asking for a refund. You can not prove anything as your not entitled to anything Op. Next job you get take your leave for the relevant year.

Part time holiday pay is worked out like this - for future reference

Part-time employees in Ireland are entitled to annual leave consisting of 8% of all the hours they work, subject to a maximum of 4 working weeks in the leave year.
In order for a part-time worker to qualify for a public holiday, he/she must work at least 40 hours in the 5-week period that immediately precedes the public holiday.

As for handing in your notice OP, you havent worked in the company for 2yrs there really is no need to hand in notice tbh, if and when you get another job simply ring the tax office 1890 33 34 25 and inform them of your pps number and give the details of your new employer, then your tax cert will be issued to you and your employer its as easy and simple as that.

That's great, thanks edellc.

Actually I have had two jobs since then, have had my tax credits moved over and have received my amended tax cert, so I know how it all works.
The reason I am handing in my notice is simply to get my back week back.
Thanks again.

tatli_lokma

edellc wrote: »

No your entitled to nothing, annual leave is just that, and you take it in the year it is built up, you can not go back 7 years asking for a refund. You can not prove anything as your not entitled to anything Op. Next job you get take your leave for the relevant year.

This is not entirely correct. The responsibility is upon the employER to ensure that an employee takes all of their leave entitlement. So OP would have a case to argue for unpaid holidays. However to do this, OP would need to be able to prove that they did not get their leave and did not get any pay for leave.

OP, are you certain that at the end of each summer period you did not get a pay out for those hours or give you any holiday leave? For eg, if you worked 39 hours per week for 12 weeks (June July & Aug) then you would be entitled to roughly 38 hours leave. Are you certain that at the end of your summer work you did not get any additional pay for holidays? Do you have payslips or some record of what hours you worked and what pay you received. Without this it would be very dificult to argue for anything as it is your word against theirs. Without knowing exactly how many hours you worked during the periods, then there is no way of calculating exactly what leave you are entitled.

I also find it very strange that OP hasn't worked there for over 2 years yet feels they are still on the payroll. What makes you think this OP? have you received P60's from them each year? when you phoned the tax office with the two jobs since then, did you not then advise the tax office that you had left? if so, it is unlikely you will still be on the payroll in the original place. And again, without at least the last payslip you were given it would be very difficult to prove that you are owed a back week. If you do have proof that you are owed a back week, then you can claim for this under the organisation of working time act.

If a casual employee came to me after 2 years looking for unpaid hols and a back week, I think I might be tempted to laugh out loud. If this place was acting in an official manner, then you would have received payslips and would have been made aware of all your payments such as back week and annual leave. If the company is not acting in the correct manner in the first place then there would be slim hope of you getting anything more out of them two years later.

Mrs OBumble

Little Ted wrote: »

when you phoned the tax office with the two jobs since then, did you not then advise the tax office that you had left?

You can tell Revenue that you've left as often as you want.

But unless they receive a P45 for you, possibly one showing zero pay and tax for the year, they won't necessarily believe that you've left. (I had a very hard time getting them to close an employment record set up when a recruiter gave me the wrong employer-reg number to use for one job. Revenue were just worried that I was trying to hide pay.)

OP, I can full understand your actions in officially getting off the books of a casual job, what you are doing is quite normal.

Re holiday pay, double-check your end-of-year payslips, some casual jobs routinely pay this out each year. Apart from that ... I'd just focus on the weekback - if you are really sure you are owed that.

tatli_lokma

JustMary wrote: »

You can tell Revenue that you've left as often as you want.

But unless they receive a P45 for you, possibly one showing zero pay and tax for the year, they won't necessarily believe that you've left. (I had a very hard time getting them to close an employment record set up when a recruiter gave me the wrong employer-reg number to use for one job. Revenue were just worried that I was trying to hide pay.)

In my experience this is not true...I actually cannot even remember the last time that I bothered to give my P45 to a new employer. I always phone Revenue and give the details prior to even starting in the new place. I have never had an issue with proving that I have left somewhere. Furthermore, if the old employer is not issuing P60's then OP is not in fact on their payroll. As such they will not be seen on Revenue records as their employer.

The reason I made the point I did, is because I feel that OP may discover that they are not actually on the payroll of the old company. I can't imagine why they would be? there would be no benefit to the old company to keep them on the payroll indefinitely, especially when they have not worked there in over 2 years, and when OP contacted revenue in the past, unless they specifically said they were to be listed under two employers, Revenue would have ceased the record for the old employer. The easiest way to know if you are on the payroll of a company is if you get P60's from them.

edellc

I have worked in payroll for many years, normally at year end when P60s are issued its only the employees that get one of these that roll over onto the payroll for the new year so if the OP hasnt worked in the company for two years they are not on the books for that company anymore.

Yes it is up to the employer to ensure that all employees have taken their annual leave within the relevant tax year however most employees are on the ball with this too.

Whenever anyone who I done payroll for finished up be they full time, part time or casual I always included holidays owed and their P45 in their final payslip...however it is up to the employer to inform payroll of peoples departures and you would be surprised the amount of employers who fail to do this, this could be one reason as to why the OP never received a P45 each year once the summer was over and they ceased working there until the following year.

Klurton

Little Ted wrote: »

If a casual employee came to me after 2 years looking for unpaid hols and a back week, I think I might be tempted to laugh out loud.

There really is no need for smart comments like this. I asked a question simply looking for some information, not to be laughed at.

I am almost certain I am on the payroll as I have left it 1 to 1 and a half years without working in between these 7 years, and all it took was a simple phone call and I could be back to work within a day.
This company does not act in a very professional manner at all. Some of the goings on of this place would shock you, but that's another story altogether!!
So I do believe it is entirely possible that I received no annual leave during my time there.

The only problem is I have no proof, and I just wondered about my entitlements.

It's not looking like I will get that pay back judging by these responses and I did fear as much, but thank you all for your input.

tatli_lokma

Klurton wrote: »

There really is no need for smart comments like this. I asked a question simply looking for some information, not to be laughed at.

jeeeessssh, don't take things so personally. I'm not laughing at you, I was merely pointing out that after 2 years you run the risk of being told to jog on with your request for 7 years of annual leave!

Klurton wrote: »

I am almost certain I am on the payroll as I have left it 1 to 1 and a half years without working in between these 7 years, and all it took was a simple phone call and I could be back to work within a day.

that is no proof you are still on the payroll. I could hire someone today and have them work tomorrow. It does not mean I already have all their details on file. You don't need up to date tax certs and info just to set someone up. All you need is a PPS number.

Klurton wrote: »

This company does not act in a very professional manner at all. Some of the goings on of this place would shock you, but that's another story altogether!!
So I do believe it is entirely possible that I received no annual leave during my time there.

This is clear from your post, and again is part of my reason for saying you run the risk of being laughed at for even thinking you were still on the payroll and entitled to 7 years AL.

Klurton wrote: »

The only problem is I have no proof, and I just wondered about my entitlements.

Everyone in paid employment has an entitlement to annual leave. However after 7 years and no proof then it is very difficult to claim this entitlement. Its your word against theirs. Also, I would strongly suspect you were getting paid cash in hand - did you EVER get a P60 or payslip from them? when you phoned revenue for the first job within the last two years did they have you listed as being with the first employer?

I'm sorry to say, you have slight chance of getting any money from these people. It is a sad reality that it goes on only too much in this country - employers not recording staff attendence, leave entitlements, providing proper pay slips etc and it happens most in situations such as yours where people are casual workers doing a few hours during peak periods.

The only real thing you could do would be to report them to NERA and hope they get audited so as to prevent this happening to anyone else in their employ.

KindOfIrish

Little Ted wrote: »

In my experience this is not true...I actually cannot even remember the last time that I bothered to send my P45 to the tax office.

Sure you can not remember, as employees NEVER send P45 to tax office
Employers have to do it.

tatli_lokma

KindOfIrish wrote: »

Sure you can not remember, as employees NEVER send P45 to tax office
Employers have to do it.

Duh! yeah, that is of course what I meant - I've never in recent memory given a P45 to a new employer, I always ring the tax office first. I have a dreadful cold this week and I think I have lost my ability to concentrate!

In fact, on payroll, even when a new starter gives me a P45 I also advise them to contact revenue as I find this results in the new cert being issued much quicker than via the P45.

Mrs OBumble

KindOfIrish wrote: »

Sure you can not remember, as employees NEVER send P45 to tax office
Employers have to do it.

The system has potential for any or all of the old employer, the new employer and the employee to send in the P45. This is because of the great range of potential situations.

The important thing is that one of them does it, or technically speaking, the old employment record should not be ended.

A Revenue staff member may end it anyway if you ring and say you've gone from one full-time job to another. But for casual jobs, they're far more likely to not close it 'til they receive the paperwork or electronic transmission via the old employers system.