What can I expect?

fupduck

At approximately 3.35pm on Thursday 27th August 2012, I was at the junction of the exit road from Gulliver’s Retail Park in Santry, and the R108. I was travelling in a Ford Transit van with my Mother .
As I was approaching the junction, a red Audi was behind me, trying to overtake me, and a black estate car, possibly a Mitsubishi Spacestar was to my right.
I was in the left hand lane intending, and indicating to take the wide right hand turn, towards the M50.
There was a large truck with a dark blue tail-lift (dollandia) in front of me.
The black car was slightly towards my rear, and had moved towards the right hand side of their lane, then indicated left and moved towards me, then stopped. The car had veered in two directions in the lane, and I was unsure of what the driver was going to do next.
A vehicle behind me (I think it was a truck a few vehicles behind me) beeped, and the truck in front of me moved forward for what I assumed was a green light.
The truck in front of me moved off, and I followed, watching the black car beside me trying to avoid an accident.
I looked forward and saw the Garda Car, and applied my brakes.
Two Gardaí jumped out of the car and started to shout at me, telling me that I had breached a red light.
They ordered me to pull in beside the garage just beyond the junction, which I did.
Both Gardaí then approached the van, still shouting. The taller of the Gards shouted at me ‘what the **** were you doing? ‘I was extremely upset and shaking, I explained that I was distracted by the erratic nature of the driver next to me, and was trying to avoid an accident.
He then told me that the truck in front of me had broken a red light, and that I had followed.
I accepted that due to my distraction, I had breached the red light, and apologised profusely, and my mother stated that the truck had gone through an amber light. The taller Gard completely discounted this.
The shorter of the Gards then asked if I was insured to drive the vehicle, I stated that I was, and he then shouted at me ‘you shouldn’t be insured on the road at all!’
The taller Gard then asked me if the vehicle was taxed, I told him that the vehicle was taxed and insured as a private vehicle. He also asked me what was in the back of the van. I told him that the only thing in the van was cardboard from items previously purchased in Ikea.
The shorter Gard asked me if I had my driving license on me, I told him I did, and produced it.

As he was taking details from my license, the taller Gard shouted at me ‘only for me jamming on, you would have crashed into me!’ This wasn't quite true, as I was a few feet away , and engaged my brakes, the Gard jammed on right in my path
The Gard who had taken my details then asked my mother for her name, address and date of birth, which my mother provided.
He then informed me that I had to produce my insurance details; he asked which station I was going to produce at. I told him that I would produce at Blanchardstown; he then threw my license back at me, and informed me that I would receive a summons for breaking the red light.
I apologised again for the breach.
The shorter Gard then explained that I would have to proceed further down the road if I wished to head in the direction I had been indicating.
I told him I was going to pull into the garage for a couple of minutes, to calm down enough to continue my journey safely.
The Gardaí returned to their vehicle, I pulled into the garage, and waited for about 5 minutes, before continuing my intended journey.
I produced my insurance documents at the Garda Station early this evening, at approximately 7.40pm.
I fully accept that I breached the red light, it truly was a momentary distraction whilst trying to avoid an accident. I have a clean driving record at the moment, but what can I expect now? will I lose my license?

Tallon

You will not lose your license, don't worry

A fine and possible 2 points? Not 100% sure on the points though

At least you realise you knew we're in the wrong and admitted itinstead of some made up story's on here

Fair play

CiniO

I can't see a reason for you to loose your licence.
Failure to obey traffic lights is a fixed charge penalty points offence, od 80 euros and 2 penalty points (up to 5 in court).
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/accidents-gardai-and-penalties/penalty-points-fixed-charge-offences/index.html

Sadly recently, there's a different thread nearly everyday describing complete not-professional behaviour of garda.

Tallon

Another reason a dash can is a must!

Even though you were in the wrong, if the gardai acted the way you say, it would be nice to have it on video

langdang

Lucky it wasn't cork, we had a thread here saying they were dishing out good solid poundings to dodgy drivers down there...

Kenny Logins

What happened to the truck that broke the lights?

fupduck

Thank you for the replies, was stressed to bits after the incident yesterday, I have never been in trouble, never been to court, I am not some little joy rider, I am a 42 year old , professional woman.
Kenny , the truck that broke the lights , just went on his way, it was me that the Gards stopped. I am sure that they will say in court, that I was just inches from their car, but this isn't true. I was a couple of feet away, the whole thing happened at maybe 10kph, I wasn't even out of first gear.

djimi

This wont go to court surely, would it? Not unless you plan on contesting it.

langdang

djimi wrote: »

This wont go to court surely, would it? Not unless you plan on contesting it.

Agreed, seems like a waste of time and money if it does, but the courts systems doesn't exactly run on common sense.
Points + fine in the post would be perfectly adequate surely?

Kenny Logins

fupduck wrote: »

Thank you for the replies, was stressed to bits after the incident yesterday, I have never been in trouble, never been to court, I am not some little joy rider, I am a 42 year old , professional woman.
Kenny , the truck that broke the lights , just went on his way, it was me that the Gards stopped. I am sure that they will say in court, that I was just inches from their car, but this isn't true. I was a couple of feet away, the whole thing happened at maybe 10kph, I wasn't even out of first gear.

TBH I don't think this will go far. Now that you (and the Garda) have calmed down a little, it might be a good idea to go and explain the situation to him.

BTW, your original post says August, not September.

fupduck

oops Kenny, It was yesterday afternoon, not in August, the Gard definitely stated that I would be summonsed to court. When I produced my insurance details , the gard at the station said it would probably take 4-6 weeks for the summons to be served. If it does go to court (which I think it will , going off the Gard yesterday) I will not be contesting the fact that I breached the light. I hope that a solicitor will be able to state the way things happened, and will just have to take what the judge decides. I just know that the two versions of the incident can be portrayed very differently in a court setting. I stand by what I said in my original post, but it is very easy for the Gards to say 'she broke red and nearly smacked into us' , which is technically true, but portrays the incident in a much different light.

fupduck

Kenny Logins wrote: »

TBH I don't think this will go far. Now that you (and the Garda) have calmed down a little, it might be a good idea to go and explain the situation to him.

BTW, your original post says August, not September.

I don't know what station the Gards were from, or names etc, I was just that panicked I took everything they dished out

Tallon

Consider getting yourself a cheap dash cam.

If you do, I would be inclined to mention it in court too. It may go a long way with the Judge to show that you are trying to have evidence of any future incidents

Worth a try

fupduck

I don't intend on there being any future incidents (mind you I didn't intend on yesterdays either) I am , by nature a defensive, not an aggressive driver, I guess I was being too defensive yesterday. I will just have to hold my hands up and take what is coming.

Tallon

fupduck wrote: »

I don't intend on there being any future incidents (mind you I didn't intend on yesterdays either) I am , by nature a defensive, not an aggressive driver, I guess I was being too defensive yesterday. I will just have to hold my hands up and take what is coming.

No one 'intends' them.. Hence why they're called 'Accidents'

emeldc

Sounds like you and your mother were mildly terrorised by these two guards. He said you nearly hit him but because you were in control, you didn't. Judges have little time for guards who throw their weight around on soft targets and if your solicitor can follow this line of questioning I reckon you could get off. Either way I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.

fupduck

Ha ha Tallon, that's the thing though, there wasn't an accident, I stopped the van, there was an incident, but no accident, nobody was hurt , thank god! I understand that the Gards got a fright , and that their attitude may well have been down to that, hopefully they are calmer now, and no longer feel the need to throw the book at me, guess it's just a game of wait and see now

Kenny Logins

fupduck wrote: »

I don't know what station the Gards were from, or names etc, I was just that panicked I took everything they dished out

What about the station where you produced your documents, could they tell you?

There is a good chance the Garda has calmed down a bit now since the incident, and realises he may have over-reacted- you didn't race the lights or jump them deliberately, it sounds like a genuine mistake.

fupduck

It was definitely a genuine mistake, I wasn't going for formula 1 times, or trying to beat the lights, i was trying to avoid the erratic driver next to me, I may well try and find out who the Gards were, and apologise again

Tallon

fupduck wrote: »

Ha ha Tallon, that's the thing though, there wasn't an accident, I stopped the van, there was an incident, but no accident, nobody was hurt , thank god! I understand that the Gards got a fright , and that their attitude may well have been down to that, hopefully they are calmer now, and no longer feel the need to throw the book at me, guess it's just a game of wait and see now

There could have been, is the point I'm making

fupduck

Yeah Tallon,, I get what you mean, I think that is why we got such a fright, the 'what could have happened' rather than what did actually happen

djimi

fupduck wrote: »

oops Kenny, It was yesterday afternoon, not in August, the Gard definitely stated that I would be summonsed to court. When I produced my insurance details , the gard at the station said it would probably take 4-6 weeks for the summons to be served. If it does go to court (which I think it will , going off the Gard yesterday) I will not be contesting the fact that I breached the light. I hope that a solicitor will be able to state the way things happened, and will just have to take what the judge decides. I just know that the two versions of the incident can be portrayed very differently in a court setting. I stand by what I said in my original post, but it is very easy for the Gards to say 'she broke red and nearly smacked into us' , which is technically true, but portrays the incident in a much different light.

Failing to obey a traffic light is a fixed charge offense which carries 2 points and and €80 fine. I imagine if this ends up in court then the first question the judge will ask of the Garda is why you were not send the penalty notice in the post, and why a court summons was deemed necessary.

Wait and see what happens; if you get summoned then so be it, but Id be surprised if Im honest. Im sure most Gardai would prefer not to be appearing in court for traffic offenses if they can at all help it, and especially in this one where it will be made out that they were on a bit of a Dirty Harry style power trip! They may well see it differently when they calm down.

fupduck

Thanks djimi, The gard was in no mood to issue the points and fine yesterday, and like I have said, I can understand that they probably got a fright as well. I will not contest if it does go to court, I just hope that the judge will listen to how the incident occurred. Believe me, I learned a lesson yesterday, whether it goes to court or not, it will be one that I wont forget!

fupduck

forgive me for resurrecting an old thread, but realised that this was a year ago,and I haven't heard anything, I think I can rest easy now? maybe? I haven't spent a year dwelling on it, but it would be a lie to say that it hasn't crossed my mind, like every time Im at a junction!

Supergurrier

They just wanted to give you a shock, don't worry about it i've had 1-2 such incidents myself, they are great for sharpening you up.

One of those was also with the mammy in the car beside me yapping away

dh0011

OP, this will not go to court, however I would recommend that you transfer your writeup in the original post and sent this to the garda siochana ombudsman commission. You are entitled to be treated with dignity and this does not appear to have happened here from your post.