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Arrested in Ireland, Tried and Jailed in England?

  • 24-09-2012 4:12pm
    #1
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0924/john-alan-brooks.html

    Just wondering under what kind of powers the Gardai can arrest someone presumably in our jurisdiction and they can be tried and jailed by another jurisdiction for that crime?

    Or is it probably a case that they were arrested in international waters and some maritime law about the destination is invoked?


Comments

  • #2
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    seamus wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0924/john-alan-brooks.html

    Just wondering under what kind of powers the Gardai can arrest someone presumably in our jurisdiction and they can be tried and jailed by another jurisdiction for that crime?

    Or is it probably a case that they were arrested in international waters and some maritime law about the destination is invoked?

    From the article, he was arrested by SOCA:
    Britain's Serious Organised Crime Agency, which had identified the suspect yacht, had set up a joint investigation with gardaí to identify those behind the Dances with Waves shipment.

    They arrested Brooks in Blackpool last November when he travelled there from his home in Spain to visit family.


  • #3
    mathepac
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭mathepac


    re Brooks from the RTE report - "They arrested Brooks in Blackpool last November when he travelled there from his home in Spain to visit family."


  • #4
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    OK, that explains how he was arrested in the UK, but it doesn't really explain what powers they had to arrest him for a crime committed presumably in Irish waters.

    Perhaps it was based on the fact that he was bound for the UK - he was arrested on the basis of his intention to smuggle into the UK?


  • #5
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    There is I believe legal provision for person who commit crimes in the Republic, or the UK to be tried in either jurisdiction.

    But in this case the person may not have been arrested in Irish Waters, it says in the article it got into trouble about 150 miles off the cork coast.

    In any case I believe it may very well have been international, waters, but the offence was the intended smugling into Wales, so that is where the crime was to be committed. If they had not got into trouble they would have landed in Wales.


  • #6
    krd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    IRLConor wrote: »
    From the article, he was arrested by SOCA:

    I think what Seamus means is a reversal of the situation.

    The boat carrying the cocaine was caught in Irish waters, by Irish guards. Whereas Brooks was arrested, charged and prosecuted in England.

    I think a reversal of the situation might be. If I was in Belarus. And trying to import contraband from England to Ireland. And the English police intercepted the contraband before it left England. Since I'm not in the same jurisdiction, the English police can't arrest me. I decide to avoid England as a holiday destination.

    However, I go on a weekend trip to see my niece in Dublin. The guards may know that the truckload of drugs seized in England was mine - that I was the controlling criminal mind. And the intention was to import into Ireland - though the contraband never reached the Irish jurisdiction.

    Can the Irish guards arrest, charge and prosecute me. Even though the contraband was seized in a different jurisdiction, and never reached Ireland. Even if I can be charged for planning - that planning crime was committed in another jurisdiction.

    When Brooks' boat was seized, the police had been aware from the very beginning that the boat belonged to him, and that it contained a very large haul of cocaine. But he was in Spain. They made no attempt to extradite him. He turns up in England for a family function and they slap the cuffs on him.

    The jurisdiction question is interesting. If I'm an IRA man living in Morocco. And I attempt to smuggle arms to Northern Ireland from the US - using contacts in organised crime. From the word go - the police in the US and UK are onto us. They let the boat sail. It gets as far as France, gets into difficulties, is rescued, the French check the boat and it's loaded with illegal arms - they seize it. Now, the UK police were hoping to nab me at the final point of delivery, but I'm in Morocco, the guns are in France. If I take a day trip to Gibraltar. Can they arrest me and charge me under the British jurisdiction?


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  • #7
    coylemj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,624 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    He was convicted of conspiring to import the cocaine into the UK. A Garda Assistant Commissioner attended the trial, was called as a witness and told the jury that the quantity of drugs was too big for the Irish market and that in his opinion it was destined for the UK.


  • #8
    krd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭krd


    coylemj wrote: »
    He was convicted of conspiring to import the cocaine into the UK.

    Aw haw. And it doesn't matter which jurisdiction your in, when you do the conspiring?
    A Garda Assistant Commissioner attended the trial, was called as a witness and told the jury that the quantity of drugs was too big for the Irish market

    I don't know. When we put our mind to it, we can be considerable consumers.
    and that in his opinion it was destined for the UK.

    I know they probably had copious amounts of other evidence. But, is that opinion good enough for a conviction. What if Brooks then argued, that yes, the drugs seized were drugs indeed, but they were destined for the Dutch market, and that he had no intention landing in the UK. So, we have a seizure in Ireland, a trial in England, but the intended jurisdiction was Holland.


  • #9
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    krd wrote: »
    Aw haw. And it doesn't matter which jurisdiction your in, when you do the conspiring?



    I don't know. When we put our mind to it, we can be considerable consumers.



    I know they probably had copious amounts of other evidence. But, is that opinion good enough for a conviction. What if Brooks then argued, that yes, the drugs seized were drugs indeed, but they were destined for the Dutch market, and that he had no intention landing in the UK. So, we have a seizure in Ireland, a trial in England, but the intended jurisdiction was Holland.

    I would assume they had further evidence of the fact the drugs intended landing point was the UK, as they said Wales I assume they had further evidence.

    It would have been very risky to say ya drugs intended for Holland as if that accepted by jury, the European Arrest Warrant from the Dutch to try him there.


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