Croke Park Hours- For Permanent Teachers Only?

evolving_doors

Just wondering... do teachers newly appointed who fall outside of the curent allowances system (or working on a 'non permanent' basis) have to attend meetings etc. which fall under the croke park hours

It seems unfair that they do if it is the case. Or is it expected by each school that everyone will attend these meetings despite the fact that only a few teachers 'benefit' from the Croke Park deal.

Does anyone know if the Unions have spoken about this?

Benicetomonty

Short answer no. But AFAIK it has a lot to do with the number of hours you're on, by which I mean if you have half hours then you only have to do the same proportion of Croke Park hours. All a bit awkward, not least when you're trying to explain this to a principal.

But anyone with 22 hours has to carry out the extra 33 regardless of permanency because as soon as you step foot in a school in a professional capacity, you're no longer an NQT, you're just a QT!

evolving_doors

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Short answer no. But AFAIK it has a lot to do with the number of hours you're on, by which I mean if you have half hours then you only have to do the same proportion of Croke Park hours. All a bit awkward, not least when you're trying to explain this to a principal.

But anyone with 22 hours has to carry out the extra 33 regardless of permanency because as soon as you step foot in a school in a professional capacity, you're no longer an NQT, you're just a QT!

ya its just a pity that younger teachers are getting screwed on the double... I.e not enjoying the benefits of croke park, but still having to fulfill the costs which have nothing to do with them

Peter Flynt

Armelodie wrote: »

ya its just a pity that younger teachers are getting screwed on the double... I.e not enjoying the benefits of croke park, but still having to fulfill the costs which have nothing to do with them

Er. . .Hello?

The benefits of Croke Park?

What BENEFITS?. . . Jebus Christ - Some people really believe the crap produced from politicians and the Indo.

implausible

CP hours are regarded as part and parcel of a teacher's contract now, so yes, they have to be done. If you are doing the job, regardless of the capacity, it's now part of it.

evolving_doors

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Er. . .Hello?

The benefits of Croke Park?

What BENEFITS?. . . Jebus Christ - Some people really believe the crap produced from politicians and the Indo.

Ah hello! zombie thread resurection or wha?

Anyway to qualify what I said 2 years ago... if pay scales are maintained for some while reduced for others then I would consider that a benefit by virtue of the fact that it was untouched etc..etc..

f3232

implausible wrote: »

CP hours are regarded as part and parcel of a teacher's contract now, so yes, they have to be done. If you are doing the job, regardless of the capacity, it's now part of it.

Yes but on a Pro Rata basis

Peter Flynt

Armelodie wrote: »

Ah hello! zombie thread resurection or wha?

Anyway to qualify what I said 2 years ago... if pay scales are maintained for some while reduced for others then I would consider that a benefit by virtue of the fact that it was untouched etc..etc..

Asking people to work 33 hours (equivalent to one and a half weeks) for free is not maintaining pay.

The useless teaching unions never sought to protect those coming into teaching after Croke Park so they have to do the hours as well as operate on a lower pay scale.

evolving_doors

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Asking people to work 33 hours (equivalent to one and a half weeks) for free is not maintaining pay.

The useless teaching unions never sought to protect those coming into teaching after Croke Park so they have to do the hours as well as operate on a lower pay scale.

yes ..but ceteris paribus..new entrants AND existing all have to do the 33hrs... the difference im talking about (or should I say 'i was talking about 2yrs ago'!!!) is the creation of a 'lesser' pay scale...whilst existing KEPT the same pay scale... one pays for the other. the other benefits (by not having their payscale touched) by virtue of newer entrants getting lower pay.

What the heck made you drag up this point I made 2 years ago?

rainbowtrout

Armelodie wrote: »

Ah hello! zombie thread resurection or wha?

Anyway to qualify what I said 2 years ago... if pay scales are maintained for some while reduced for others then I would consider that a benefit by virtue of the fact that it was untouched etc..etc..

Not getting a pay cut is not a benefit. It's maintaining the status quo. We are working 33 hours extra so our pay wouldn't be cut.

I'd never in a million years put the words Croke Park and benefit in the same sentence.

evolving_doors

What the hell is this?

Are we really going to do this... discuss a word I used 2 years ago .. to what end?

I'll ask the question again one more time... Peter Flynt.. what possessed you to trawl through this forum and chose this post in particular?

Did you ...
A) Search for the word "Croke Park Hours" and then bingo just happen upon my one particular post and then decided that it needed reanimation for the purposes of...something or other.. If so It's kind of pathetic, as I'm sure you are aware there are many mentions of the word "croke park hours" over the last few years".. Why this one?

Do you spend all hours trawling through all my old posts to look for something or other ... If so I'm kind of taking it as a compliment

So which was it?

But anyway lets do this... lets defend my use of the word 'benefit' 2 years ago. Like I've nothing better to do...

So first off, my point was specifically in relation to the introduction of a lower payscale and the preservation of the previous one. As we well know everything and the kitchen sink was in the Croke Park pot so to say that some got hit harder than others would not be incorrect, otherwise you would be taking the point that every single teacher came out exactly equally cut from it (no matter how long teaching they were new entrant/mid/end career)...
I would argue that PART of the savings were made on the backs of new entrants, now to my mind there were issues of increment freezes and all that but essentially the old payscale was left untouched. I would take the view that one went down so that the other could remain the same.

Sure, I agree that there were other cuts but don;t forget the new entrants took the same cuts (including working the extra croke park hours). I know that everyone's circumstances are different but I would also be of the view that the cut on those above 65k hit them less hard than newer entrants.

There were so many bits and pieces in the CP that we could be arguing till the cows come home as to who lost out more. To my mind the most glaring aspect was what was done to new entrants. And we can see it still.. Do your degree, shell out 12k for the PME and if you're lucky enough to start on Full hours 30k... you'd think they would be increasing the starting pay to compensate for the longer PME!!

Anyhow, we know all that.. my point of view is that if a lot of newly built boats start to sink (new payscale) and you are told that you'll stay the same (same payscale) if you sign up to x,y,x then I would content that you are a beneficiary.. We all know that that was the tactic now.. pick off every little faction within the teaching cohort.. and hey guess what.. they don;t even have to work on the saps in or coming out of college because they havn't a clue what's going on (with all due respect) and sure, there were established teachers that didn;t even WANt to know what was going on.. but at least they had the power of a vote. The new entrants are just going to be told (by the type of teacher basher numpties that frequent a certain other forum every 3 months) that you should be lucky to get a job (even if it is only a couple of hours a week).

Face it, it was part of negotiation tactic and 'we' (collectively as established teachers (even though I'm still 'indefinite' myself)) let newer entrants down pretty bad, we can;t say they let themselves down because they just simply had no voice.

So that's my view on the matter.

I also have some hardline view on pets too which have gotten me into trouble Peter if you'd care to trawl through that also... Also I think Beats By Dr. Dre headphones are style over substance.. (Sennheiser all the way folks, made in Ireland too)

I'm outta this thread...

rainbowtrout

Armelodie wrote: »

What the hell is this?

 

Are we really going to do this... discuss a word I used 2 years ago .. to what end..

 

 

 

 

 

I happened across this thread this evening and stand over my comment. Benefits confer advantages. Thr r n advantages to remaining on the same pay and having to work longer hrs. That's a drawback. For teachers who started on lower pay, they suffered these drawbacks even more. The government benefitted, not teachers.

 

Armelodie wrote: »

What the hell is this?

 

 

 

I'll ask the question again one more time... Peter Flynt.. what possessed you to trawl through this forum and chose this post in particular.

 

Did you ...

A) Search for the word "Croke Park Hours" and then bingo just happen upon my one particular post and then decided that it needed reanimation for the purposes of...something or other.. If so It's kind of pathetic, as I'm sure you are aware there are many mentions of the word "croke park hours" over the last few years".. Why this one?

 

Do you spend all hours trawling through all my old posts to look for something or other ... If so I'm kind of taking it as a compliment

 

So which was it?

 

But anyway lets do this... lets defend my use of the word 'benefit' 2 years ago. Like I've nothing better to do...

 

 

 

 

You don't have to trawl through the forum and search for 'Croke Park Hours' to happen upon a thread. The search function on boards can be spectacularly crap at times.  I just did that specific search and it was only the seventh thread returned on the list, even though it was the most recently created one.

 

Calling a person pathetic because they didn't agree with your post, in my opinion really isn't on. Suggesting that they spend hours trawling through your past posts is even more ridiculous.

 

 

 I thought mod policy was to lock zombie threads rather than engaging in arguments and calling people pathetic.  Not exactly in keeping with the spirit of the forum.

 

 

 

MOD: I'll give you that much alright

 

Thread locked

 

P.S. Please read the Charter about commenting on MODs on thread...

 

P.P.S Please read the charter about when a mod uses and Doesn't use Bold