Is placing a death bounty on someone's head, Islamic ?

Jellicoe

Is placing a death bounty on someone's head, Islamic ?

We're led to believe that Islam is a 'peaceful' religion if interpreted correctly

So how can the following be justifiable ?

Why is Islam obsessed with killing people ?

A Pakistani government minister has offered a $100,000 (£61,616) reward for the death of the maker of an anti-Islam film produced in the US.
Railways Minister Ghulam Ahmad Bilour said he would pay the reward for the "sacred duty" out of his own pocket.

"I will pay whoever kills the makers of this video $100,000," the minister said. "If someone else makes other similar blasphemous material in the future, I will also pay his killers $100,000.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19687386

Einhard

Anders Behring Breivik murdered 77 people. Why are Norwegians so obsessed with killing people?

Jellicoe

Einhard wrote: »

Anders Behring Breivik murdered 77 people. Why are Norwegians so obsessed with killing people?

Were there hundreds of thousands of Anders out on the streets the last few days making death threats and getting toddlers to hold up signs threatening death in the name of Islam ? You could ask it on the Norwegian forum.

Hint : If you want to derail a thread and prevent discussion of the real issue, you could at least try something relevant.

Einhard

Jellicoe wrote: »

Were there hundreds of thousands of Anders out on the streets the last few days making death threats and getting toddlers to hold up signs threatening death in the name of Islam ? You could ask it on the Norwegian forum.

Hint : If you want to derail a thread and prevent discussion of the real issue, you could at least try something relevant.

I was making the point that your post is based on an absurd generalisation. There are a billion muslims in the world. If we accept your exaggerated figures as fact and accept that there were hundreds of thousands of Muslims out protesting, that would still account for less than .1% of Muslims in the world. So, according to you, .1% of a group doing something s enough to tar the entire group. That's a patently ridiculous contention.

blackthorn

The Pakistani Minister of Railways does not represent Islam. I don't know why he thinks he can put a bounty on someone's head. I hope he's not a mere Junior Minister of Railways, because then it would be simply ridiculous.

Maybe he is trying to make himself out to be some kind of a bigshot for the benefit of his knuckle-dragging constituents. Pakistani politics is quite toxic, so it wouldn't surprise me.

OnTheCounter

Fcuker must go to jail.

If someone kills the movie maker, gets caught and says they did it for the bounty then the minister should get the death penalty.

at the very least he should no longer be a minister.

OnTheCounter

I have more of a problem with women not being allowed to leave the house without being accompanied by a male relative for starters.

long range shooter

If your religion is worth killing for,start with yourself

TerrorFirmer

How does the general public react to such a remark from a government minister? How does the government itself react? Surely, it's frowned upon?

Mark Hamill

Einhard wrote: »

I was making the point that your post is based on an absurd generalisation. There are a billion muslims in the world. If we accept your exaggerated figures as fact and accept that there were hundreds of thousands of Muslims out protesting, that would still account for less than .1% of Muslims in the world. So, according to you, .1% of a group doing something s enough to tar the entire group. That's a patently ridiculous contention.

Well given the recent PewPoll that showed 82% support for stoning for adultery and 76% support for the death penalty for apostasy in Pakistan, I don't think the OP is making that big of an exaggeration. It's probably better to ask "Why are certain Islamic countries so obsessed with killing people?" though, as the likes of Turkey and Lebanon do show very little support for these acts.

Jellicoe

Einhard wrote: »

I was making the point that your post is based on an absurd generalisation. There are a billion muslims in the world. If we accept your exaggerated figures as fact and accept that there were hundreds of thousands of Muslims out protesting, that would still account for less than .1% of Muslims in the world. So, according to you, .1% of a group doing something s enough to tar the entire group. That's a patently ridiculous contention.

Another feeble attempt to shut down any discussion. Why is Islam not condemning these death threats, why are ordinary Muslims not out marching against them and the Railway minister ?

Victor

Jellicoe wrote: »

Why is Islam

Islam is not a monolith like the Roman Catholic Church. There is no leader like the pope, no command structure like the hierarchy.

Jellicoe

Victor wrote: »

Islam is not a monolith like the Roman Catholic Church. There is no leader like the pope, no command structure like the hierarchy.

lol, And yet when it suits they can speak and protest as a group.

Einhard

Jellicoe wrote: »

Another feeble attempt to shut down any discussion. Why is Islam not condemning these death threats, why are ordinary Muslims not out marching against them and the Railway minister ?

What on earth are you blathering about? I'm engagng in discussion, not attempting to shut it down. Pointing out flaws in another person's argument does not equate to preventing discussion.

Your contentions are nonsensical to be honest. Why doesn't Islam condemn these death threats? What does this even mean? islam is a religion of 1 billion people, not some monolithic entity. How on earth could a heterogenous construct such as a global religion even do as you ask? Send Allah or Mohammad out to issue a statement? Seriously, the suggestion is bizarre.

As for Muslims not out marching, it's for the same reason that Christians didn't go out marching when a Sikh mosque was attacked recently because the guman though they were Muslim; it's for the same reason that hristians don't go marching in response to the hate-filled screeds of Pastor Terry Jones; it's the same reason that moderate Israeli Jews don't go marching in response to xenophobic attacks on Christians and Muslims in Jerusalem and elsewhere by ultra-religious Jews. Because most ordinary people don't just go out protesting on a whim, and most couldn't be bothered. If we were to march against everything we disagree with, we'd have some might sore feet.

I would point out though, that Libyans held protests against the attacks in Benghazi, and that thousands of Benghazi citizens risked their lives to rout from their city the militia who were allegedly behind the attacks. But then, you're not interested in a discussion; you already have your mind made up, and are more interested in having a go than anything else. Your motivation in this thread is entirely transparent.

In the unlikely event though, that you are interested in a proper debate, have a look at this photo montage by gawker. Perhaps it will help to balance your opinions of Muslims. I doubt it though.

http://gawker.com/5943828/13-powerful-images-of-muslim-rage

Einhard

Jellicoe wrote: »

lol, And yet when it suits they can speak and protest as a group.

Are you immune to reason? It seems so. With your dislike of disagreement, and disdain from logic and reason, you would really fit right in with the most extreme, illiberal Muslim sects...indeed, those of any religion.

Islam is a religion of 1 billion disparate people, across every continent. Those protesting were .001% of Muslims. How on earth can .001% of a group be thought to be the entirety of that group? Seriously, you're just grasping at straws here.

Jellicoe

Einhard wrote: »

Are you immune to reason? It seems so. With your dislike of disagreement, and disdain from logic and reason, you would really fit right in with the most extreme, illiberal Muslim sects...indeed, those of any religion.

Islam is a religion of 1 billion disparate people, across every continent. Those protesting were .001% of Muslims. How on earth can .001% of a group be thought to be the entirety of that group? Seriously, you're just grasping at straws here.

More bull and spin
So where are the 99.999% of Muslims who don't agree with them and why are they conding all this by staying silent, why are they not out on the street in counter demonstration ?

Pakistan Muslims: 82% for stoning adulterers, 76% death penalty for apostasy.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

mcmoustache

I'm actually curious about this myself.

Is the concept of "fatwa" an arab thing, a Shia thing, a Pakistani thing or an Islamic thing?


Did it ever come up in the Qu'ran or the Hadiths?

Standman

Bigotry is disgusting

Jellicoe wrote: »

Nuke Mecca for starters.

mcmoustache

Standman wrote: »

Bigotry is disgusting

He acts the maggot in that forum too.

I still think that the subject is worth discussing, though.

hivizman

mcmoustache wrote: »

I'm actually curious about this myself.

Is the concept of "fatwa" an arab thing, a Shia thing, a Pakistani thing or an Islamic thing?


Did it ever come up in the Qu'ran or the Hadiths?

A fatwa is simply a juristic opinion on a matter of Islamic law issued by a scholar whose qualification to issue fatwas is recognised by the recipient of the opinion. As it is an opinion, an interpretation of Islamic law as applied to a particular situation, different scholars may well disagree with the fatwas issued by other scholars. Indeed, some scholars will deny the authority of other scholars to issue fatwas, especially if they disagree with the content of the fatwas.

In some Muslim-majority countries, there are official bodies of scholars whose fatwas are considered by most Muslims to be authoritative, but many Muslims will follow only those fatwas issued by scholars from within one of the schools of jurisprudence that they happen to follow. More generally, Sunni Muslims do not automatically give weight to fatwas issued by Shi'a scholars and vice versa.

The idea of giving an opinion isn't specifically contained in the Qur'an, but many of the hadiths are reports of Muhammad expressing views on a wide range of issues, and such views are taken as having normative force. Fatwas need to be grounded in Shari'a, and hence ultimately in the Qur'an and Sunnah. In some cases, the sources lead to a single interpretation shared by all (or most) scholars, but in other cases the sources can be interpreted in different ways, and various scholars are likely to reach different opinions on a given topic.

Because fatwas are simply expressions of opinion, a particular fatwa is considered binding only on the scholar who issues it.

Jellicoe

Standman wrote: »

Bigotry is disgusting

Nothing to do with Bigotry

The Nuke fairly put manners on the Japs

Lucy8080

I get the impression from Islam that they are not supossed to give power to images.

It is hard not to recognise the power images, of mohamed , or of videos on Youtube, have over some .

The power seems so great, that even life is cheap.

But ,hey, what do i know.

condra

Is placing a death bounty on someone's head, Islamic ?

To answer the original question:
YES

Placing a death bounty on someones head is indeed Islamic, considering there are countless calls for death in Islamic faith and culture.

Death for apostates, death to all jews, beheading, stoning, yadda yadda yadda...

Why aren't they out protesting the minister?

Same reason you don't find much protest in here.
Silence speaks volumes.

JimiTime

condra wrote: »

Same reason you don't find much protest in here.
Silence speaks volumes.

I'm as disgusted by the absolute idiocy and violence carried out by these scumbags as the next person, but maybe most muslims over here etc are busy, ye know, getting on with their lives? Going to work, looking after their families etc.

Now while I think it would probably be good PR for Muslims to take to the streets to let the world know that these scumbags don't represent them or their religion, I wouldn't be so ignorant as to assume that their silence equates to agreement with these maniacs. Also, if they DID take to the streets, then further down the line these maniacs did something else, then something else, then something else and on and on and on, would they keep having to take to the streets to make ignorant people feel secure that not all muslims thought this way? Would the argument then be, 'well they took to the streets for this, but not for that, ergo, their silence must mean they agree with it'.

Jellicoe

condra wrote: »

To answer the original question:
YES

Placing a death bounty on someones head is indeed Islamic, considering there are countless calls for death in Islamic faith and culture.

Death for apostates, death to all jews, beheading, stoning, yadda yadda yadda...



Same reason you don't find much protest in here.
Silence speaks volumes.

Thats what I thought, but I wanted to hear the excuses / spin for not speaking out

irishconvert

Jellicoe wrote: »

Another feeble attempt to shut down any discussion. Why is Islam not condemning these death threats, why are ordinary Muslims not out marching against them and the Railway minister ?

Why are ordinary Americans not out marching against the killing of Pakistani citizens by US drones without any proof or trial?

Why are ordinary Americans not out marching against the indefinite jailing of people in Guantanamo Bay without any trial?

Jellicoe

irishconvert wrote: »

Why are ordinary Americans not out marching against the killing of Pakistani citizens by US drones without any proof or trial?

Why are ordinary Americans not out marching against the indefinite jailing of people in Guantanamo Bay without any trial?

After causing 9-11, you want westerners to have sympathy for the killing and jailing of Islamic terrorists > lol. Didn't see many Muslims out protesting against the 9-11 murders carried out in their name either.

Now, back to the continually avoided question, why are Muslims not out on the streets showing their disgust for these death threats issued in the name of their so called 'peaceful' religion ? By there very silence they are supporting this filth. This shows up Islam for what it is.

mcmoustache

Jellicoe wrote: »

Now, back to the continually avoided question, why are Muslims not out on the streets showing their disgust for these death threats issued in the name of their so called 'peaceful' religion ? By there very silence they are supporting this filth. This shows up Islam for what it is.

In all fairness, they have been out protesting. In fact they nearly rioted and killed the militia responsible for the attack on the American diplomat.

I'm not sure how you missed this news.

wes

mcmoustache wrote: »

In all fairness, they have been out protesting. In fact they nearly rioted and killed the militia responsible for the attack on the American diplomat.

I'm not sure how you missed this news.

It was actually already pointed out in Post 14 by Einhard.

So the poster in question is already aware of the the protest in Libya, but has clearly chosen to ignore any fact that don't fit there world view, and instead just dismisses them out right.

Jellicoe

mcmoustache wrote: »

In all fairness, they have been out protesting. In fact they nearly rioted and killed the militia responsible for the attack on the American diplomat.

I'm not sure how you missed this news.

Nearly Rioted and killed ? Now there’s a surprise from 'peace loving' Muslims.

Where’s the peaceful protest against these death threats from the other 1 billion Muslims ? The silence is deafening.

wes

Jellicoe wrote: »

Nearly Rioted and killed ? Now there’s a surprise from 'peace loving' Muslims.

The miltia fired on the protesters :rolleyes:. They were just defending themselves. Seriously, its amazing the amount of nonsense coming from you.

Btw, there were peaceful protest before in Libya as well, but again its not like you care either way.

It pretty clear to me that you completely ignored the protest against the people who attacked the consulate in Libya. For someone demanding protests, its rather amazing that you are so completely unaware of them, even after there pointed out to you. It very clear nothing will sate you, and that you really could care less either way.

Jellicoe wrote: »

Where’s the peaceful protest against these death threats from the other 1 billion Muslims ? The silence is deafening.

So, when its pointed out that there were protests, then its suddendly not enough.......... Then there is the fact that you ignore the protests when its suited you already in the thread.

Jellicoe

wes wrote: »

So, when its pointed out that there were protests, then its suddendly not enough.......... Then there is the fact that you ignore the protests when its suited you already in the thread.

So where is the outcry from the other 1 billion ?

wes

Jellicoe wrote: »

So where is the outcry from the other 1 billion ?

Why should they? There hardly to blame for the actions of a small minority of crazies.

Also, its seems clear that no amount of protest is good enough for you in anyways, as you have happily ignored them, when it suited you already in the thread.

wilson10

I think it says a lot about Pakistani society that this minister didn't get his walking papers immediately.

He spoke about our friends and brothers in the Taliban and Al Quida and the prime minister merely disassociated himself from the statement.

Imagine a government minister in our western civilised society publicly putting out a contract on someone.

Apart from immediate dismissal from his post he would be brought before a judge fairly lively.

wes

wilson10 wrote: »

Imagine a government minister in our western civilised society publicly putting out a contract on someone.

Yes, nothing like that would ever happen:
Meet the people who want Julian Assange "whacked"

Wonder how many of them lost there job...........

Jellicoe

wes wrote: »

Why should they? There hardly to blame for the actions of a small minority of crazies.

And yet the 1 billion continue to let it happen, because its all in the name of Muslims and Islam. Sickening

wes

Jellicoe wrote: »

And yet the 1 billion continue to let it happen, because its all in the name of Muslims and Islam. Sickening

So, you are holding people responsible for stuff they didn't commit? That's an interesting way of looking at things..... Interesting that you only apply this standard to Muslims as well.

Doubly interesting, that no amount of protest is good enough, unless all Muslims are involved, but when a minority cause trouble, then there all to blame. Strange that isn't it?

Jellicoe

wes wrote: »

So, you are holding people responsible for stuff they didn't commit? That's an interesting way of looking at things..... Interesting that you only apply this standard to Muslims as well.

Don't hear many Muslims condemning the death threats, any other religion there would be an outcry about death threats being issued in their name. Then again not many religions other than 'peaceful' Islam are obsessed with issuing death threats and cutting off peoples heads. So holy of you.

wes

Jellicoe wrote: »

Don't hear many Muslims condemning the death threats, any other religion there would be an outcry about death threats being issued in their name. Then again not many religions other than 'peaceful' Islam are obsessed with issuing death threats and cutting off peoples heads. So holy of you.

How exactly can a Religion make a death threat? It was an individual who made the threat.......

Jellicoe

wes wrote: »

How exactly can a Religion make a death threat? It was an individual who made the threat.......

In the name of 'protecting' Islam and Muslim feeling

wes

Jellicoe wrote: »

In the name of 'protecting' Islam and Muslim feeling

Yes, and this one guy is the pope of Islam? Oh wait he isn't.

Also, his comments have been condemned in Pakistan already, but I take it, nothing less than 1 billion Muslim condemning it would be enough.....

Anyway, you are massive hypocrite, in that you seem happy to call for violence on a far larger and infinetly more murderous scale than the Pakistani minister:

Jellicoe wrote: »

Nuke Mecca for starters.

I take I should expect all boards.ie posters to condemn you post, or otherwise it doesn't count? Of course, it would be absurd to expect every single boards.ie poster to condemn the call for mass murder from an extremists, as there hardly responsible for it.

Either way, you are an extremist yourself, and are rather bloodthirsty as well.

Jellicoe

wes wrote: »

Yes, and this one guy is the pope of Islam? Oh wait he isn't.

Also, his comments have been condemned in Pakistan already, but I take it, nothing less than 1 billion Muslim condemning it would be enough.....

Anyway, you are massive hypocrite, in that you seem happy to call for violence on a far larger and infinetly more murderous scale than the Pakistani minister:


I take I should expect all boards.ie posters to condemn you post, or otherwise it doesn't count? Of course, it would be absurd to expect every single boards.ie poster to condemn the call for mass murder from an extremists, as there hardly responsible for it.

Either way, you are an extremist yourself, and are rather bloodthirsty as well.

You're still trying to avoid the point that these threats are done in the name of all muslims and islam to protect islam, and whats the reponse of 99% of muslims ? complete co-operation and silence.

As for Nukeing Mecca, it fairly put manners on the Japs

wes

Jellicoe wrote: »

You're still trying to avoid the point that these threats are done in the name of all muslims and islam to protect islam, and whats the reponse of 99% of muslims ? complete co-operation and silence.

Not avoiding anything at all. Your murderous comments, clearly show you are in no position to expect anything of anyone. Your a massive hypocrite and your extremist views are quite frankly dangerous.

Also, as I pointed out earlier, the vast majority of boards.ie posters have not condemned you comments, and yet no one in there right mind would expect every single poster to condemn your murderous hypocrisy.

If you think it ok for you to call for death and destruction, quite frankly, you have no business complaining about anyone else doing, and you sure as hell have no business complaining about others not condemning it.

You also stated you were willing to kill several people for money, including the person who made the Muhammad film as well. Seriously, the amount of hypocrisy is on a level, that is truly unique in how utterly nuts it is.

Jellicoe wrote: »

As for Nukeing Mecca, it fairly put manners on the Japs

So calling for mass murder and racism now. Some truly disturbing and sickening stuff coming from you. Your hatred and hypocrisy is truly disturbing and its clear, you had no intention of discussing this topic at all, as you clearly want to see the death of millions of Muslims, and apparently kill anyone who you deem to have extreme views as well.

Jellicoe

wes wrote: »

Not avoiding anything at all. Your murderous comments, clearly show you are in no position to expect anything of anyone. Your a massive hypocrite and your extremist views are quite frankly dangerous.

Also, as I pointed out earlier, the vast majority of boards.ie posters have not condemned you comments, and yet no one in there right mind would expect every single poster to condemn your murderous hypocrisy.

If you think it ok for you to call for death and destruction, quite frankly, you have no business complaining about anyone else doing, and you sure as hell have no business complaining about others not condemning it.

You also stated you were willing to kill several people for money, including the person who made the Muhammad film as well. Seriously, the amount of hypocrisy is on a level, that is truly unique in how utterly nuts it is.



So calling for mass murder and racism now. Some truly disturbing and sickening stuff coming from you. Your hatred and hypocrisy is truly disturbing and its clear, you had no intention of discussing this topic at all, as you clearly want to see the death of millions of Muslims, and apparently kill anyone who you deem to have extreme views as well.

More hysterical attempts at distraction, I don't speak for people on boards.ie nor do I issue death threats on behalf of all boards posters and their religion. If I did I'm sure the majority would put a stop to it. As for Nukeing supporters of terrorists and their death threats, if it is good enough for American self defence against its enemies, its good enough again. As I said it fairly put manners on the Japs.

Muslims are out protesting...

wes

Jellicoe wrote: »

More attempts at distraction,

Pointing out a posters hypocrisy is not a distraction, especially, when you make my point for me .

Jellicoe wrote: »

I don't speak for people on boards.ie nor do I issue death threats on behalf of all boards posters and their religion. If I did I'm sure the majority would put a stop to it

And you have made my point for me this time. You don't represent boards.ie, so there is no need for anyone to bother with your nonsense.

Jellicoe wrote: »

As for Nukeing supporters of terrorists and their death threats, if it is good enough for American self defence against its enemies, its good enough again.

Your posts are an example of sickening blood lust and hatred and nothing more. Truly disturbing.

Jellicoe

Whats Pakistan doing about the minister that issued the death threats ?

Jellicoe

wes wrote: »

Pointing out a posters hypocrisy is not a distraction, especially, when you make my point for me .



And you have made my point for me this time. You don't represent boards.ie, so there is no need for anyone to bother with your nonsense.



Your posts are an example of sickening blood lust and hatred and nothing more. Truly disturbing.

More Hysteria to distract from the point. As I said, it fairly put manners on the Japs.

So what about your Islamic friends who do claim to speak for Muslims and issue death threats for Islam, nothing is being done about the minister in Pakistan for example.

wes

Jellicoe wrote: »

Whats Pakistan doing about the minister that issued the death threats ?

Well, seeing as you said you would happily kill the target of the bounty yourself, I hope there tracking you down as well.......

wes

Jellicoe wrote: »

Unlike your Islamic friends who do pretend to speak for Muslims and issue death threats for Islam

There not my friends. They tend to blow Sufi shrines and are generally not the biggest fans of our particular group, and yet some how, I am responsible for condemning there craziness for some reason.

Anyway, as someone calling for death and destruction, you aren't exactly in a position to judge anyone either way.

Jellicoe

Well if you continue to refuse to deal with these Islamic terrorists yourselves and their protectors, don't be surprised and start crying when the west steps in to do so and clean up your own mess for you ike the yanks had to do in Japan and Germany