Private Bus effective failure

The Idyll Race

Route 311, licenced to Dualway between Newcastle and Tallaght, is running on a pitifully reduced schedule linked here: http://www.dualway.com/local-bus-services-page55071.html

Sums up the Harneyite joys of private buses, really.

CIE

What it sums up is the continued iron grip on transport by the government. Perhaps it's overdue to stop competing against private concerns and worry only about infrastructure?

The Idyll Race

CIE wrote: »

What it sums up is the continued iron grip on transport by the government. Perhaps it's overdue to stop competing against private concerns and worry only about infrastructure?

Oh, was there some sneaky Dublin Bus 68a that took all the passengers away then? Must have missed that.

AlekSmart

The Idyll Race wrote: »

Route 311, licenced to Dualway between Newcastle and Tallaght, is running on a pitifully reduced schedule linked here: http://www.dualway.com/local-bus-services-page55071.html

Sums up the Harneyite joys of private buses, really.

What it equally sums up is the hard to comprehend managerial decisions which saw Bus Atha Cliath begin,where hugely popular,Tallaght Local Link services,T01.2,3,and 4 only to allow them to wither and die over time.

By now,I would have developed those original services into a comprehensive and regular group of TLL services perhaps extending to Blessington,Ballymore and (:eek: Gasp !!) even Baltinglass.

This,of itself might have prevented the descent of the Square into it's current somewhat decrepit state as well as expanding the Public Transport options beyond what the 311 curently delivers.

markpb

The Idyll Race wrote: »

Route 311, licenced to Dualway between Newcastle and Tallaght, is running on a pitifully reduced schedule linked here: http://www.dualway.com/local-bus-services-page55071.html

Sums up the Harneyite joys of private buses, really.

DB have never reduced a route to rubbish service levels, no? Every route is run with high frequency? Hah.

Nice job taking a single route reduction by a single company and extending it to bash an entire sector.

dermo88

The Idyll Race

Sums up the Harneyite joys of private buses, really.

Christ......we're off again.....more melodramatic hyperbole. After Primary school Geography, Shakespeare is a good study option too. I recommend it.

HydeRoad

The Idyll Race wrote: »

Route 311, licenced to Dualway between Newcastle and Tallaght, is running on a pitifully reduced schedule linked here: http://www.dualway.com/local-bus-services-page55071.html

Sums up the Harneyite joys of private buses, really.

Thank God for the private sector - the people of Tallaght, Clondalkin, Greystones, Dalkey, Leopardstown and even the whole bloody city centre, were a long time waiting for the state operator to provide an express airport link...

lucernarian

HydeRoad wrote: »

Thank God for the private sector - the people of Tallaght, Clondalkin, Greystones, Dalkey, Leopardstown and even the whole bloody city centre, were a long time waiting for the state operator to provide an express airport link...

The "whole bloody city centre" too? What are you referring to?

The Idyll Race

markpb wrote: »

DB have never reduced a route to rubbish service levels, no? Every route is run with high frequency? Hah.

Nice job taking a single route reduction by a single company and extending it to bash an entire sector.

.

Nevertheless it is a failure. It is a failure which the NTA need to take an interest in.

dowlingm

the problems with discussions of private involvement in public transport is that you can do it any number of ways but a failure of any of them is deemed proof privatisation never works, and successes are glossed over.

CIE

The Idyll Race wrote: »

Nevertheless it is a failure. It is a failure which the NTA need to take an interest in

Please clarify. A state agency has to take an interest in a single private-sector retrenchment, why?

The Idyll Race wrote: »

Oh, was there some sneaky Dublin Bus 68A that took all the passengers away then? Must have missed that

Straw man/Aunt Sally argument.

Blowfish

The Idyll Race wrote: »

.

Nevertheless it is a failure. It is a failure which the NTA need to take an interest in.

Why? If there's such a lack of demand for it that it's making losses, then why should the NTA be forced to provide a service?

CIE

dowlingm wrote: »

the problems with discussions of private involvement in public transport is that you can do it any number of ways but a failure of any of them is deemed proof privatisation never works, and successes are glossed over.

Would you be able to re-phrase that? It seems to me that the term "mass transport(ation)" may fit better, since throwing the word "public" around implies that it ought to be provided by the state alone.

I do agree with the point that the skewing of private company failures versus those of state company failures has to stop. Several DB routes are now gone that just a few years ago used to have frequent service.

The Idyll Race

CIE wrote: »

Please clarify. A state agency has to take an interest in a single private-sector retrenchment, why?Straw man/Aunt Sally argument.

There was a bus that linked Newcastle with Saggart and Tallaght. It exists now as a glorified school bus with one run each way daily, and the operator acknowledges that potential pax have been inconvenienced? The route was a licenced route and presumably a level of service was specified, unless the NTA didn't bother?

Did they?

Let's make it clear here. AlekSmart as usual made the best comment about DB dropping the ball over LocalLink services. I have no beef against private operators unless their attitude is only to cream off the most profitable services.

What I would like to see is something very like the London system adopted to Dublin circumstances, where NTA specify routes and service intervals, DB and the private operators tender for them and provide as in London a unified, branded service for Dublin and its hinterland. Again, it isn't rocket science and it isn't reinventing the wheel. A useful service could exist to link up the western suburban towns with the western suburbs. A reasonably frequent bus between Newcastle, Rathcoole, Saggart, CityWest and Tallaght could fit in with that idea. Serviceable links that extend the usefulness of Luas could also exist.

Instead, we get a half-arsed service that gets the usual suspects all brittle, as usual, when any criticism is mentioned of the glorious private bus sector. There is a better way of doing this that should benefit everyone.

dowlingm

CIE - I'm content with how I chose to phrase my last post. As for why NTA should "take an interest in private failures" - a failure which occurs under an NTA issued licence should of course be subject to review.

I concur with Idyll Race's comment above - have unified route management with tendered route delivery. Transport for London and Vancouver Translink show the value of locally accountable and multi-mode (including walking and cycling) transport planning.

I believe the transformation of the DTO into the DTA and then NTA will ultimately be seen as a mistake by widening the focus of the agency excessively, and Dublin transport will ultimately be re-carved out (DTO Mark 2) which this time should be controlled in partnership with the local authorities rather than being a mere creature of the DofT.

CIE

The Idyll Race wrote: »

There was a bus that linked Newcastle with Saggart and Tallaght. It exists now as a glorified school bus with one run each way daily, and the operator acknowledges that potential pax have been inconvenienced? The route was a licenced route and presumably a level of service was specified, unless the NTA didn't bother?

Did they?

Let's make it clear here. AlekSmart as usual made the best comment about DB dropping the ball over LocalLink services. I have no beef against private operators unless their attitude is only to cream off the most profitable services.

What I would like to see is something very like the London system adopted to Dublin circumstances, where NTA specify routes and service intervals, DB and the private operators tender for them and provide as in London a unified, branded service for Dublin and its hinterland. Again, it isn't rocket science and it isn't reinventing the wheel. A useful service could exist to link up the western suburban towns with the western suburbs. A reasonably frequent bus between Newcastle, Rathcoole, Saggart, CityWest and Tallaght could fit in with that idea. Serviceable links that extend the usefulness of Luas could also exist.

Instead, we get a half-arsed service that gets the usual suspects all brittle, as usual, when any criticism is mentioned of the glorious private bus sector. There is a better way of doing this that should benefit everyone

...and this "better way" is not identified. Subsidising private operation to offset excessive regulation (which appears to be what happens in London) does not necessarily translate to a "better way". If the regulatory environment (imposed from outside the country now) remains as is, then private operators that rely wholly on farebox revenue won't have any incentive to run services where they do not have full buses.

BTW, there was no reference to "potential passengers" on the Dualway web site. DB does the very same thing when they reduce or even cut service cold, i.e. express regret for any inconvenience but never acknowledge any obligation to passengers.

Besides, it just may be that from the NTA's point of view, a two-seat ride still exists for passengers departing either Newcastle or Rathcoole for the Square, that being DB routes 68 or 69 to change buses onto route 76. Beyond that, if the passengers dislike that, the attitude is most likely laissez-les manger le gâteau...