Farmer sold his land for €1.5m buys it back for €60k

davet82

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/meet-the-farmer-who-sold-his-land-for-15m-seven-years-ago-and-bought-it-back-for-60000-3235798.html

IT IS the ultimate sign of our dramatic transformation from boom to bust.

A Co Meath cattle farmer has bought back an 8.5-acre site from a developer for just €60,000 only seven years after selling it himself for close to €1.5m.

whats that in a precentage price drop :rolleyes:

glad to see some people are facing facts and selling up, still must be hard selling at such a loss

LittleBook

davet82 wrote: »

glad to see some people are facing facts and selling up, still must be hard selling at such a loss

Who's loss I wonder.

davet82

LittleBook wrote: »

Who's loss I wonder.

probably the tax payer

ABajaninCork

That farmer's one smart puppy! Fair play to him...

ebixa82

Delighted for the farmer.

Chris_5339762

I thought there was some rule/law in place to stop this?

ebixa82

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I thought there was some rule/law in place to stop this?

Can't think of any reason why there should be!

the_syco

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I thought there was some rule/law in place to stop this?

Think it's against the law for developers or anyone connect to them to buy the land that they lost to NAMA (at a massive discount), but the farmer didn't lose the land; he sold it in the boom times, and has bought it back in the bust times. Also, note that it was auctioned off, so most likely done so by the bank.

vicwatson

Good aul urland !

seamus

I would love to know who comes up with this bollox:

The Kells area is well inside the Dublin commuter belt -- only an hour by car from the city centre.

Kells, Co. Meath is not an hour's commute from Dublin city centre. In commuter traffic it'll take 45 minutes to get to the M50 and another 45 to get into the city.
You'll make the Dublin to Kells run in an hour if you have green lights and no traffic all the way. Have to wonder why the Indo is still peddling this kind of nonsense six years after the bubble collapsed and this kind of bull became irrelevant.

ABajaninCork

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I thought there was some rule/law in place to stop this?

Why??? Market forces at it's best!! If some fool wants to overpay you for your property, let them. If they then sell at a loss and you buy back the land, then hard cheese to the buyer!!

riclad

The bank took an asset from developer and sold it at a market price
,thats capitalism ,and that 1.5 million was probably lent to a bankrupt developer by a bank.SO the bank probably lost more in the long run.
And it shows there was too much money lent by banks to buy land
most of which may never be used for building houses on.
those travel times are probably made up, based on how long you could drive there at 5am in the morning ,ie no traffic on roads .
anyone who believes estate agent travel times to commuter towns is a naive fool.
theres rules re changing land from agriculture to building, development ,so farming land is like
14k an acre.Because it cant be used for building .

Pa Dee

ebixa82 wrote: »

Delighted for the farmer.

Why ? You are paying for this. Developer is nama'd and taxpayer is footing the difference

MarkR

davet82 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/meet-the-farmer-who-sold-his-land-for-15m-seven-years-ago-and-bought-it-back-for-60000-3235798.html



whats that in a precentage price drop :rolleyes:

glad to see some people are facing facts and selling up, still must be hard selling at such a loss

96%

tfitzgerald

Fair play to him

tfitzgerald

Pa Dee wrote: »

Why ? You are paying for this. Developer is nama'd and taxpayer is footing the difference

I'd rather see the farmer getting the profit than some wanker. Sorry I meant banker

washman3

ebixa82 wrote: »

Delighted for the farmer.

And right you should be..:D
The country has just handed him €1.5m and you,your children and their grandchildren will be paying back.!!
The €60,000 he paid to buy back the site probably came from his farm "entitlements" grant, so guess what?? you will also be paying for that.
Still delighted.???

washman3

tfitzgerald wrote: »

I'd rather see the farmer getting the profit than some wanker. Sorry I meant banker

And i'd rather see the taxpayer getting a profit than both of them.;)

Pa Dee

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Pa Dee wrote: »

Why ? You are paying for this. Developer is nama'd and taxpayer is footing the difference

I'd rather see the farmer getting the profit than some wanker. Sorry I meant banker

This might be beyond you but the taxpayer (ie you) is putting money into banks to compensate for these type of transactions. So when the budget comes around and new taxes and increases taxes and lot is cuts to services such as health and education come about its to fund this type of transaction

keyser2012

riclad wrote: »

The bank took an asset from developer and sold it at a market price
,thats capitalism ,and that 1.5 million was probably lent to a bankrupt developer by a bank.SO the bank probably lost more in the long run.
And it shows there was too much money lent by banks to buy land
most of which may never be used for building houses on.
those travel times are probably made up, based on how long you could drive there at 5am in the morning ,ie no traffic on roads .
anyone who believes estate agent travel times to commuter towns is a naive fool.
theres rules re changing land from agriculture to building, development ,so farming land is like
14k an acre.Because it cant be used for building .

Ive heard its as low as 6k around the foxford area in county mayo

CantGetNoSleep

Why can't farming land be used for building? Don't try to tell me that kind of thing went out with FF

TiGeR KiNgS

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Why can't farming land be used for building? Don't try to tell me that kind of thing went out with FF

Its a capital gains tax issue.
'Development land' is another name for land where income received from the land is in another form i.e. other than the use of the land by farming eg crops, cattle etc.

my understanding any way, please feel free to correct me.

bbam

keyser2012 wrote: »

Ive heard its as low as 6k around the foxford area in county mayo

Average price across the country is €10K..
You will however get land down to about €3/4K in parts of Cavan and Leitrim of poorer quality..

keyser2012

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Its a capital gains tax issue.
'Development land' is another name for land where income received from the land is in another form i.e. other than the use of the land by farming eg crops, cattle etc.

my understanding any way, please feel free to correct me.

I bought some land of a farmer in 2004 and all i done was apply for planning permission so your theory is wrong unless it was changed recentlyy.

DonLimon

keyser2012 wrote: »

I bought some land of a farmer in 2004 and all i done was apply for planning permission so your theory is wrong unless it was changed recentlyy.

I'd imagine planning permission for a single house would be a different process than a housing development.

riclad

You could buy an acre for 7k, theres no gaurantee you,d be allowed to build a house on it,
You could buy an old cottage in the country ,then refurbish it ,or build a new house with planning permission.ie knock down old house.
AND Theres sites for sale ,with planning permission for 1 house , 30k plus ,
depending on where they are.
ITS better to build where theres already a water supply ,drainage,
esb line.

Gary The Gamer

ABajaninCork wrote: »

That farmer's one smart puppy! Fair play to him...

I doubt the farmer had much of a clue about what was going on.

ABajaninCork

Gary The Gamer wrote: »

I doubt the farmer had much of a clue about what was going on.

What are you talking about?? HE sold his land for 1.5m to some idiot, greedy git developer. The developer either can't get PP or has since gone bust. So they (or NAMA) have to sell the land. The original owner then buys it back at rock bottom prices.

And you say he didn't have much of a clue???

juan.kerr

washman3 wrote: »

The country has just handed him €1.5m and you,your children and their grandchildren will be paying back.!!

Ridiculous misrepresentation of the facts.

Gary The Gamer

ABajaninCork wrote: »

What are you talking about?? HE sold his land for 1.5m to some idiot, greedy git developer. The developer either can't get PP or has since gone bust. So they (or NAMA) have to sell the land. The original owner then buys it back at rock bottom prices.

And you say he didn't have much of a clue???

Yes. He had hardly any control over the situation. He sold at market prices and he bought at market prices. There was no long term plan or cunning on his part.

ABajaninCork

Gary The Gamer wrote: »

Yes. He had hardly any control over the situation. He sold at market prices and he bought at market prices. There was no long term plan or cunning on his part.

Of course he didn't have control. The farmer wasn't the one to spark the free for all. Nor did he decide when the recession hit and the prices went down. I'd say he kept a careful eye on the situation and bought when the plot went to auction. If you read the story, there was only him and one other bidder. There was no cunning on his part. He was at the right place at the right time, and paid the right price for the land.

Planning, I'd say.

Ritchi

He probably invested the 1.5m in property or bank shares anyway.

Gurgle

Looks like someone is copping on at least.

there is a realisation by banks that holding on to rural development land is pointless.

During the boom, the site was earmarked for a housing estate with 45 homes on the edge of the village of Crossakiel.
Three local brothers -- Seamus, David and Daniel Fagan -- bought the site and would have hoped to receive €250,000 for each of the completed three-bedroom houses.

One less ghost estate, 3 less property speculators.
I wonder if they're making repayments on the loan.

Lucky for them and us (taxpayers) that they never got the building work started.

riclad

it takes a special kind of stupidity to screw up the economy like this, every joe soap thought if i buy land i can build ten houses on it sell them for 250 k.
SO a bit of land was suddenly worth 1.5m ,
this was based on house prices in dublin,
sure if a house in dublin is worth 300k,
then some eejit will pay 250k for a house in my town.
And the banks were throwing money at these people.
THIS lending was based on the belief that prices will never decrease , and theres an endless amount of buyers who could pay a 200k plus mortgage.
Proper rules on lending,and strict banking regulation would have stopped this happening.

Senna

This buy back of land by the original owner is going on all over the country, another transaction in Donegal had very similar figures, only that the site was much bigger.
Cant blame the land owner.

DebDynamite

I grew up not too far from there and was talking to my dad about it over the weekend. He said "the gas thing is, when the ecomony picks up, "they" reckon he could sell it again for another €1.5million" :rolleyes:

Gurgle

DebDynamite wrote: »

"they" reckon he could sell it again for another €1.5million" :rolleyes:

You can just picture the same 3 brothers in front of the same bank manager planning to build the same 45 3-bed semis all over again.

I wonder if the loan will be approved again.

DebDynamite

Scary how people think that building houses in the middle of nowhere is the norm and this is just a blip we're going though at the moment.

Have people learned nothing!

DebDynamite

Gurgle wrote: »

You can just picture the same 3 brothers in front of the same bank manager planning to build the same 45 3-bed semis all over again.

I wonder if the loan will be approved again.

I doubt it, the ordinary man on the street might think thing will go "back to normal", but I think the banks will be a lot more cautious from now on.

Kenny Logins

seamus wrote: »

I would love to know who comes up with this bollox:

Kells, Co. Meath is not an hour's commute from Dublin city centre. In commuter traffic it'll take 45 minutes to get to the M50 and another 45 to get into the city.
You'll make the Dublin to Kells run in an hour if you have green lights and no traffic all the way. Have to wonder why the Indo is still peddling this kind of nonsense six years after the bubble collapsed and this kind of bull became irrelevant.

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Kells,+Ireland&daddr=Dublin,+Ireland&hl=en&sll=53.726835,-6.874832&sspn=0.01884,0.047164&geocode=FXPOMwMdMBmX_ylLmT8Rm1dnSDHQezGXqccACg%3BFUMMLgMdjnqg_ykvrCfqgA5nSDGgcTGXqccACg&oq=dublin&mra=ls&t=m&z=10

Gandhi

Gurgle wrote: »

You can just picture the same 3 brothers in front of the same bank manager planning to build the same 45 3-bed semis all over again.

I wonder if the loan will be approved again.

Well, the last time the same deal went t*ts up those walking ATM machines known as "taxpayers" were drafted in to pick up the tab, so why the hell not?

jmayo

washman3 wrote: »

And right you should be..:D
The country has just handed him €1.5m and you,your children and their grandchildren will be paying back.!!
The €60,000 he paid to buy back the site probably came from his farm "entitlements" grant, so guess what?? you will also be paying for that.
Still delighted.???

Fook sake you would swear that all the single farm payments were coming out of the Irish taxpayers pockets. :rolleyes:
Most of it comes from the same place the money to keep our lights on in hospitals and schools now comes from.

Also easy to see your attitude to farmers with your strategic placement of quotes.

keyser2012 wrote: »

Ive heard its as low as 6k around the foxford area in county mayo

Have you seen some of the land around Foxford.
Bog, swamp, marsh and mountain.

ABajaninCork wrote: »

What are you talking about?? HE sold his land for 1.5m to some idiot, greedy git developer. The developer either can't get PP or has since gone bust. So they (or NAMA) have to sell the land. The original owner then buys it back at rock bottom prices.

And you say he didn't have much of a clue???

A lot of this is luck.
He was lucky in that some eejit reckoned they could make a fortune from his land and he was futher lucky in that the eejit didn't know how to run a business and went bust meaning the land had to be resold at agricultural prices.
Where the farmer might have shown his smarts is that he may not have ploughed the winfall into overpriced property or bank shares as some did.

BTW this is happening quiet a lot.

DebDynamite wrote: »

I grew up not too far from there and was talking to my dad about it over the weekend. He said "the gas thing is, when the ecomony picks up, "they" reckon he could sell it again for another €1.5million" :rolleyes:

Aint going to happen.
There will not be the same level of idiotic lending that was seen during the bubble for many generations if ever again.
Smart countries learn and make sure it doesn't happen again.
How many tulip bubbles has Holland had ?

Britain had a proeprty bubble in the 80s and another in the noughties, but the size of these pale into insignificance compared to ours.

riclad

Hopefully we have good regulators ,and stricter rules,
or the ecb will be watching to prevent another property bubble in 20 years.
WE cant relay on smart or cautious bankers ,
thats like asking a blind person to guide you across the road.
Prices are still rising in britain,the uk population is rising ,theres simply not enough house s being built to meet demand.
The eejit did,t think prices may fall, demand may fall, and the eejits in the bank based lending on houses in area x being worth 250k ,once prices in dublin fell ,many people lost interest in commuting long distances,or could not borrow to buy a house 20 miles from dublin.

keyser2012

riclad wrote: »

Hopefully we have good regulators ,and stricter rules,
or the ecb will be watching to prevent another property bubble in 20 years.
WE cant relay on smart or cautious bankers ,
thats like asking a blind person to guide you across the road.

Sound like a plan but with economies comes booms and busts. Its just part of the system.

riclad

I think france, germany never had,a boom, bust because they have strict banking rules, on lending,re if someone wants to buy a house, banks can lend x amount based on salary,you have to save x per cent ,you need a large deposit.
SO people on low wages borrowing 150, 200k ,it would not be allowed in those countrys.

Amirani

riclad wrote: »

I think france, germany never had,a boom, bust

You think wrong.

beeno67

riclad wrote: »

I think france, germany never had,a boom, bust because they have strict banking rules, on lending,re if someone wants to buy a house, banks can lend x amount based on salary,you have to save x per cent ,you need a large deposit.
SO people on low wages borrowing 150, 200k ,it would not be allowed in those countrys.

France's bubble is bursting as we speak
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/houseprices/9244152/France-faces-40pc-house-price-slump.html

subway

I would have paid 61k.
Why are they selling all these via hidden "auctions"

jmayo

beeno67 wrote: »

France's bubble is bursting as we speak
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/houseprices/9244152/France-faces-40pc-house-price-slump.html

Every country bar the ones that had bubbles into 90s (Sweden, Finland, Japan) had varying degrees of price hikes due to the massive availability of cheap credit.
Banks in most of the world relaxed lending and hey presto the locals could afford more and added to that you had foreigners (like the Paddies) also coming in buying up property.

But, and it is a massive but, I don't think any country had as big a bubble as oursevles.
USA, Australia, Canada, Britain had big property price increases especially in particular regions.
There were differences to our own bubble in that in the case of places like Australia they actually had underlying economic factors, like their mineral resources helping to push things higher.
Of course that was due to China's boom.

The other thing is in this country the level of personal debt is astronomical.