Underage player problem

Mumoflads

Not sure what I can do with this so would like any advice. My son (14) played an u14 match this evening. He travelled 26 miles to the match and got to play for 3 mins at end. The problem is there were many u12 players playing. I will say my son is average and loves the game. Some of the u12s were not as good as him but are children of friends of the coach. As I say my son isn't fab but is okay at his age group. Can I do anything?? Thanks for any advice

Black Suir

Mumoflads wrote: »

Not sure what I can do with this so would like any advice. My son (14) played an u14 match this evening. He travelled 26 miles to the match and got to play for 3 mins at end. The problem is there were many u12 players playing. I will say my son is average and loves the game. Some of the u12s were not as good as him but are children of friends of the coach. As I say my son isn't fab but is okay at his age group. Can I do anything?? Thanks for any advice

Ring Joe Duffy.

Tom Joad

You haven't said what you're son thinks of this - does he have an issue with the situation? that should be the key thing in this situation.

Re his ability - While its refreshing that you are blinded by his awesomeness like some parents, can you really be objective?

Kids at that age develop at different stages - for example he could have a growth spurt and overtake a lot of the lads you feel he is currently behind. The important thing is to keep his enjoyment of the game -it shouldn't be all about the winning at that age.

Some clubs are riddled with politics - not a lot you can do about that apart from maybe get involved with training etc with some like minded people - organise a coup . Moving clubs is a big thing and who's the say what would change - the new club would have its own politics too.

Best of luck with it.

ohyesthefinest

Mumoflads wrote: »

Not sure what I can do with this so would like any advice. My son (14) played an u14 match this evening. He travelled 26 miles to the match and got to play for 3 mins at end. The problem is there were many u12 players playing. I will say my son is average and loves the game. Some of the u12s were not as good as him but are children of friends of the coach. As I say my son isn't fab but is okay at his age group. Can I do anything?? Thanks for any advice

Obviously not a great situation but from experience I can tell you that between the ages of 15-17 an awful lot of players drop out so ii=f he keeps at it his prospects of playing will improve.

rkrkrk

Encourage your son to practice for every spare minute of every day until he becomes the best player on the the team. Once he's that good he'd be guaranteed a starting place, irrespective of politics.

If that drive/determination isn't there, some other suggestions might be:

Get involved with coaching/mentoring your son's team yourself, that way you can have your own input and influence on team selection. Most teams/clubs are desperate for people to get involved and help out, even if it's just putting out cones or fetching balls. The GAA has loads of coaching courses, workshops, on-line resources where you can learn and develop coaching skills without any prior experience, just takes a bit of time and effort.

Alternatively, you could become involved on the administration side of the club. If people see you putting time into committees or fund raising etc you'll soon find yourself on the positive side of the politics.

He's probably still a bit young but if he loves the game could he get involved in some other capacity? - helping/coaching with the nursery? refereeing? first aid? etc.

Maybe consider playing individual sports - athletics, swimming, tennis, etc. or non competitive sports/activities - surfing, hillwalking, cycling, etc.

DubOnHoliday

The first thing is to discuss with the manager and get all sides to the story. I look after u12 and u14 hurling teams. I have some u12s play on the 14 teams, specially where they attend training more, and push harder. Its a refreshing situation to have 12's pushing the older guys for places, it actually makes some of the 14s wake up and realise their place is not guaranteed . Whatever happens, I hope you get a positive outcome for your son and he stays on the team.

BostonB

On our local team we had the opposite problem all the older guys got their game and the younger guys didn't. We challenged them to a match and slaughtered them. Still didn't get a game. So most of the younger players left.

Our local GAA kids team have a policy of rotating all players so even the best players get to sit out a game and support the others from the sideline. At the end of the day it comes down to the objective of the club. To get people playing, or just to be a private club for a select few.

Have you had a discussion with the coach about it?

bennyc

Is there a bord na nog in the club or a child protection / walfare officer , maybe go to them and have them highlight your issues with said manager.

nice_guy80

Talk to Joe

or bring it up at the AGM.

Black Suir

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Talk to Joe

or bring it up at the AGM.

Ya, I suggested Joe as well. He's some man the way he sits in his confession box for an hour and a half, five days a week, and listening to peoples problems.

Another idea might be to get the players to call a meeting and to force the manager and selectors out. Start player power from a young age.

Or maybe its a case that the manager is telling both the parent and the player something.

MaroonAndGreen

I think your just another bitter parent whose child isnt good enough, and also a parent who obviously doesnt care much for your club if you would consider moving your child.

MaroonAndGreen

If your child moves club all they would make is enemies. Its very much a taboo in GAA

BostonB

Personally I would run a mile from a club with such a lousy attitude to kids sports. Thankfully our club is nothing like that.

Royal Legend

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

I think your just another bitter parent whose child isnt good enough, and also a parent who obviously doesnt care much for your club if you would consider moving your child.

He does not come across as that at all, bit of a nasty reply there M&G

It is a hard one to deal with. My advice as both a parent and a coach is this. Stand back and look at the situation from the coaches point of view, them from your sons (not yours) point of view. Does he need the hassle of his father getting onto the coach of the team? Will the coach even listen to what you have to say?
It also depends on the level of the team. If there is a big pick of players and they compete at a high level, then the usual concensus is for picking the best players, irrespective of age. The downside of this for the club is in the future, burning out players, finding at minor level that they dont even have twelve players on the age etc etc.
Also, leaving the club is a big jump, the child will ALWAYS be an outsider at another club, there is no guarentee that the new club will see your child any different either.
I honestly believe that every child develops at different times and that you don't really see the full potential until after 17 years. I think the advice of getting involved is a good one, but then you need to be neutral and that is not easy

MaroonAndGreen

Royal Legend wrote: »

He does not come across as that at all, bit of a nasty reply there M&G

It is a hard one to deal with. My advice as both a parent and a coach is this. Stand back and look at the situation from the coaches point of view, them from your sons (not yours) point of view. Does he need the hassle of his father getting onto the coach of the team? Will the coach even listen to what you have to say?
It also depends on the level of the team. If there is a big pick of players and they compete at a high level, then the usual concensus is for picking the best players, irrespective of age. The downside of this for the club is in the future, burning out players, finding at minor level that they dont even have twelve players on the age etc etc.
Also, leaving the club is a big jump, the child will ALWAYS be an outsider at another club, there is no guarentee that the new club will see your child any different either.
I honestly believe that every child develops at different times and that you don't really see the full potential until after 17 years. I think the advice of getting involved is a good one, but then you need to be neutral and that is not easy

Maybe so but that does tend to be the problem in these cases, parents find it hard to accept that their child isnt good enough, and are obviously biased.

I apologise if im being overly harsh or offensive.

Royal Legend

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Maybe so but that does tend to be the problem in these cases, parents find it hard to accept that their child isnt good enough, and are obviously biased.

I apologise if im being overly harsh or offensive.

And coaches can be biased as well, they can be intransigent, clubs can have poor value systems. You get all sorts involved in a club, some oddballs as well and some that are useless at player development and even if they watch their older teams continue to fail, still cannot fathom that they and their backward attitude is the problem. Sport should be inclusive, even for the lad who is not that good and especially at 11/12 years of age, how does that coach know what that kid is going to be like at 16/17? If he pisses off the young fella by not ever giving him a chance, he will never know, as that kid will be long gone by then. Where possible clubs should be trying to make sure they have 13 or 15 players on the age, rather than supplementing the team with kids 1 and 2 years off of the age. Personally I think this should also be the case at county level as well up to Minor.

Royal Legend

Also I have worked with a high level coach in another sport who was fairly ruthless. One story goes that a mother approached him one day and got onto him asking him as to why her little Jenny was not getting a game, straight as a die, he replied, sorry to say your daughter is not good enough and needs to find another sport, There are not many coaches in fairness as blunt as that.

We all want our kids to do well, and although I coach, I stay away from my kids team, very hard thing to do, I always back the coach in front of the kid and if I don't agree with a policy or reaction to a child, I have a quiet word with the coach away from everyones eye and earshot. I always question my attitude towards my child that way, not always sure if I do it right, by I try to be as neutral as possible, it annoys the sh 1t out of my other half.

BrianBoru00

Firstly, let me say that this IS NOT a GAA problem, it happens all over the world in every team sport.
Within the GAA it is not restricted to underage - you'll find problems all the way up to Senior level even inter county level - some people get in ahead of others - (apparently) because of connections or from the managers own club etc.

At club level though, the main benefits of being part of a team are the friends you make. There could be a different manager next year....
Please encourage him to continue training and playing. I know of several players not good enough for underage teams but persisted, improved and eventually became good enough to make the club senior teams!!!

Royal Legend

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

Firstly, let me say that this IS NOT a GAA problem, it happens all over the world in every team sport.
Within the GAA it is not restricted to underage - you'll find problems all the way up to Senior level even inter county level - some people get in ahead of others - (apparently) because of connections or from the managers own club etc.

At club level though, the main benefits of being part of a team are the friends you make. There could be a different manager next year....
Please encourage him to continue training and playing. I know of several players not good enough for underage teams but persisted, improved and eventually became good enough to make the club senior teams!!!

Most sensible advice so far, thats the one point I had forgotten. Has your son got many friends on the team? If he has, keep him involved, have a word in the ear of the coach and get his opinion, even of you don't like the answer. If your son has no close friends on the team, chances are he will give it up anyway and hang around with his own friends who have the same interests, its very important that as a parent you don't try to live your life through your child, but at the same time, personally I think its important that a child is involved in sporting activities, especially team ones.

nice_guy80

The best players nearly all have a parent who played the game (hurling or football) and spend lots of time with their kids playing.

Either that or they had lots of siblings to play/practice with in the garden/green

If I were a parent, I would spend lots of time practicing with the child, improving their skills and confidence which should translate into more games with the club

WumBuster

Whether it be due to club politics or whether he is not good enough to be making the team or whatever the case, I dont think its your place to say anything. Im sure the parents of the other subs would like to see their kid on the team too but its a team sport which means you cant please everyone. if you feel strongly enough that its an ongoing issue within the club where kids of the coaches are being started before others(I think it happens in most clubs anyway at that age), bring it up at the club AGM. otherwise, just be encouraging towards your youngster if he maybe needs a little confidence lift, rather than blowing up the situation about him making the team or not. Its participation that counts at that age. Putting pressure on him to be ultra competitive could only turn him off.

JFlah

Black Suir wrote: »

Ring Joe Duffy.

I know it's supposed to be funny , but really that is just a not very clever comment imo

BostonB

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Maybe so but that does tend to be the problem in these cases, parents find it hard to accept that their child isnt good enough, and are obviously biased.

I apologise if im being overly harsh or offensive.

Its offensive AND it makes no sense. In the very first post, the OP admitted their kid was average at best, but the coach was playing worse players. Its quite bizarre to ignore all that and go with the vitriolic comments.

While the over overenthusiastic parent does happen, no denying that. But vastly more common problem is non inclusive team, or coach that won't give everyone a game, or bring lesser players on. Its a no brainer that playing with better player improves the lesser player, sometimes far exceeding the lesser player expected potential. If you want to improve the pool of players, and widen support for the club, thats the way to do it.

BostonB

Apart from the other suggestions, BrianBoru00 being the one I'd most agree with. One of things I've seen less skilful player do is become much fitter than the rest of the team, thus can start to get to more loose balls, and run more as the other players get tired and get lazy. Or get stronger and more physical. Make them more useful in defence etc. Another thing is do other sports, which might improve their endurance, or flexibility and then bring those attributes back into their football.

Or as was already posted by others simply practice more than everyone else.

Luca Brasi

This is one of the reasons why there is such a drop in numbers playing GAA and other sports in the teenage years. Clubs dont see the long picture. In our Dublin club at nursery you could have up to 70 kids joining. Naturally a number wont be too interested and move on to other activities but still at u12 level you could have two panels of 20. By the time minor comes you might be lucky to have one panel of 20 and often supplemented by the u16.

I would advise you to discuss this with the child first. As one poster said kids develop at different stages and by the time he is 16 he could be the main man on the team. If he really doesnt want to continue thers not much you can do. Also have a word with the coach, tell him how the young lad is feeling, ask him is there any part of his game that the young lad could work on by himself or with you that would help him improve. If the coach is any bit decent and a parent himself he will see where you are coming from.
When we have big panels out at games we take the subs away from the pitch and do a bit of four/five aside with them, practising skills etc. Some of them enjoy that more than getting a game and they are warmed up and ready if called in to the main match. It means that they have a bit of fun and we are holding on to them.
My own lad wasn't great in his early teens but kept at it in hurling and football and came on well. He also made great friends, played in blitzes and tournaments up and down the country etc

Paddyontherun

Quite a few people are jumping to conclusions here with very little information to hand. All talk of leaving clubs ,staging coups, club politics etc. is premature until there are more facts available. All we know is that for this game OPs son got 3 minutes near the end while there were U12s playing.
e.g We don’t know
· if there were other kids who got less time or if some got no time on the pitch
· how many subs there were
· Does the manager regularly have to use U12s to make up a team
· the importance of the game
· How long OP’s son has been at the club
· If he has been training regularly
· How he behaves in training
· How much other game time he has got recently.

As some have said above your first port of call is the manager. Take him to one side and tell him politely that you and your son we’re disappointed to make the effort and only get 3 minutes especially while others outside the panel seemed to be given priority. If he is a decent manager he will have reasons, plans etc and should be able to explain his rationale and stand over it. While you may not agree fully with him you may see where he is coming from.
If you get nowhere talk to his assistants and ultimately talk to the juvenile section head if you feel there is a cultural / political issue.

He may have a number of reasons and some of the factors mentioned above may come into play. Each manager will have his own views and priorities when it comes to team selection especially if there are a large number of players available.
I manage an u14 team myself and am trying to see where a situation would arise where a player would only get 3 minutes or where someone from another squad would get on ahead of your own.

As a manager one has to way up a number of issues in team selection. Generally your own players come first, however if you ask younger players to turn out you need to give them game time otherwise they wont turn out again and neither will their team mates. The number you bring depends on the reliability of your own players. You always have to allow for one or 2 letting you down at the last minute. Ideally if you can have 2 subs that is fine however there are occasions extra turn up. If your own team members don’t train or disrupt training it is an option to leave them out. Equally if they are off form rest them but handle delicately. They will be occasions during a tight important game that you have to make a call on behalf of the whole squad to go for the win or give everyone a game. Again if its handled well kids will be ok. There may also be times when you are so engrossed in a tight game you can genuinely forget about a player until someone reminds you.
The key issue is to make sure they all feel part of the squad keep them all motivated. As someone said playing your strongest 15 all the time is short term gain long term loss. Make sure everyone gets plenty of football and you have a happy squad. One of our weak players scored his first goals last weekend and everyone was delighted, it made our week.
Getting back to your son keep him at it keep him interested Let him know its not just about him its about the team, team work and team mates. Above all make sure he gets a fair deal.

Footnote
As a side issue why is tour co board arranging mid week matches 3rd week in September which require a 26 mile trip?