A few questions regarding new Telly

adox

I`m going to pick up a new LCD for the bedroom over the coming weeks with the intention of using it for Saorview and hopefully Freeview.

My question is am I right in thinking that all Freeview approved sets(if i buy from the UK) will also pick up Saorview but, if I want a 7 day guide for Saorview I would have to buy a Saorview approved telly?

Actually, also, if i buy a Saorview approved telly, will it also be able to pick up freeview on its tuner?(Geography permitting).

The Cush

adox wrote: »

My question is am I right in thinking that all Freeview approved sets(if i buy from the UK) will also pick up Saorview but, if I want a 7 day guide for Saorview I would have to buy a Saorview approved telly?

Not all Freeview approved TVs have an MPEG-4 video decoder, only MPEG-2, so only sound and no picture. Some do have the correct video decoder but carefully check the specs before you buy for MPEG-4 and/or H.264 AVC. Go for a Saorview approved to be 100% sure.

adox wrote: »

Actually, also, if i buy a Saorview approved telly, will it also be able to pick up freeview on its tuner?(Geography permitting).

Geography and Freeview signal permitting, yes.

adox

The Cush wrote: »

Not all Freeview approved TVs have an MPEG-4 video decoder, only MPEG-2, so only sound and no picture. Some do have the correct video decoder but carefully check the specs before you buy for MPEG-4 and/or H.264 AVC. Go for a Saorview approved to be 100% sure.



Geography and Freeview signal permitting, yes.

Thats great thanks. I may buy locally so to be sure with regard Saorview. Its replacing an old portable in the bedroom so I`m only looking at a 24"/26" display. If I can pick up Freeview as well then all the better. I currently have an aerial on the roof and pick up all the Irish channels plus BBC1/2, UTV and C4 on analogue.

I`m hoping I will pick up Freeview from next month. Living in Rush in North County Dublin, live right beside the coast and get and really good analogue signal.

reslfj

adox wrote: »

I`m hoping I will pick up Freeview from next month. Living in Rush in North County Dublin, live right beside the coast and get and really good analogue signal.

A FreeviewHD TV (one with a DVB-T2 tuner and MPEG-4 support) will be able to receive all NI and all ROI channels - where the signals are available.

The channel numbers may be different denpending on your selected country. TV sets with good support for creating favoritelist can be a much better choice.



Lars

adox

reslfj wrote: »

A FreeviewHD TV (one with a DVB-T2 tuner and MPEG-4 support) will be able to receive all NI and all ROI channels - where the signals are available.

The channel numbers may be different denpending on your selected country. TV sets with good support for creating favoritelist can be a much better choice.



Lars

Thanks Lars,

I have one more question and probably a stupid one but.......

I currently have a Sky magic eye connected to the back of the portable in the bedroom to view and control the Sky box downstairs so when I buy the new LCD I will be using the same. I presume this will work ok and I will just have to switch from Digital to Analogue to pick up the Sky feed?

The Cush

reslfj wrote: »

A FreeviewHD TV (one with a DVB-T2 tuner and MPEG-4 support) will be able to receive all NI and all ROI channels - where the signals are available.

The channel numbers may be different denpending on your selected country. TV sets with good support for creating favoritelist can be a much better choice.

adox wrote: »

Thanks Lars,

Lars is correct, a FreeviewHD approved TV with DVB-T2/MPEG-4 tuner will receive both FreeviewHD and SD services (if available) and Saorview. From Oct 24th there will be 4 FreeviewHD channels transmitting from the NI transmitters (BBC1, BBC HD(soon to be BBC2 HD), UTV HD, Ch 4 HD), duplicates of the existing SD channels. Some Saorview approved TV also have a DVB-T2 tuner which will do the same as the FreeviewHD TVs. If going for the FreeviewHD spec TV again be sure to check for the FreeviewHD logo on the product and look at the spec to be sure.

adox wrote: »

I have one more question and probably a stupid one but.......

I currently have a Sky magic eye connected to the back of the portable in the bedroom to view and control the Sky box downstairs so when I buy the new LCD I will be using the same. I presume this will work ok and I will just have to switch from Digital to Analogue to pick up the Sky feed?

That's correct.

adox

I`m considering purchasing this set:

http://www.sony.ie/product/tv-55-22-lcd/kdl-22ex553/technical-specifications#tab

Not sure how well the smart tv functions work on it. I have a load of media on my Mac so it would be great if it can stream locally.

On the specs its a bit vague about the EPG. Does anyone know if it will display a 7 day EPG for saorview?

The Cush

adox wrote: »

On the specs its a bit vague about the EPG. Does anyone know if it will display a 7 day EPG for saorview?

I think almost every digital receiver will display the 7 day epg, it's part of the basic DVB spec.

Peter Rhea

adox wrote: »

Does anyone know if it will display a 7 day EPG for saorview?

It's Saorview approved, so no problems with any aspect of that service.

donegal.

the masts transmitting saorview and freeview may be in the different directions, so you might need 2 aerials. I know thats the case where i live, even though with the old analogue system i got all the station with only one aerial.

adox

donegal. wrote: »

the masts transmitting saorview and freeview may be in the different directions, so you might need 2 aerials. I know thats the case where i live, even though with the old analogue system i got all the station with only one aerial.

yeah its a bit of a gamble alright. I`m actually reconsidering and might buy a cheaper set. Theres no real point going out of my way to buy a Freeview HD set when I`m even sure I will pick up the reception.

i think I`ll start looking at cheaper sets. Once there Saorview approved they should be able to pick up freeview if available I think.

sesswhat

donegal. wrote: »

the masts transmitting saorview and freeview may be in the different directions, so you might need 2 aerials. I know thats the case where i live, even though with the old analogue system i got all the station with only one aerial.

Many of the NI transmitters will be analogue only until the switchover but after that you may find a simpler aerial setup will suffice.

If anyone is getting any reception of UK stations on analogue from across the border at present, they should wait to start making adjustments to their aerial set-up until at least after 10th October.

Ging Ging

Thats all good so far, geographically permitting of course.

So from this I see that a Freeview HD reciever DVB T2 will pick up Saorview and a Saorview reciever will pick up Freeview.
But most Saorview relievers will not display the UK Freeview HD channels.

I want to know are there any Saorview recievers (not combo boxes) that are compatible with the UK Freeview HD signal. ie. DVB T2
Thanks.

The Cush

Ging Ging wrote: »

I want to know are there any Saorview recievers (not combo boxes) that are compatible with the UK Freeview HD signal. ie. DVB T2

Haven't come across any Saorview STBs with on-board DVB-T2 tuner, there are Saorview approved TVs with DVB-T2 as standard e.g, any of the Sony range here with model no. ending in 3 or 4 I believe.

adox

Just an update. I picked up the Sony LCD today, the one I linked earlier in the thread, although I went for the bigger 26" screen in white.

Very impressed so far. Tuned in Saorview very quickly and the picture quality is excellent, especially RTE2HD. Will wait and see if I can pick anything up from freeview next month and if so, any of the hd channels.

Also, the smart part of the tv is excellent. It found my LAN straight away. It has a Netflix app which works perfectly. I was trying to stream media from my Mac but it couldn't find it. After a bit of googling I downloaded some software on the Mac and hey presto, everything was showing.

Even better, despite supposedly only supporting certain file types, everything has streamed flawlessly, avi, mp4, mkv files.

Delighted so far.

STB

Ging Ging wrote: »

I want to know are there any Saorview recievers (not combo boxes) that are compatible with the UK Freeview HD signal. ie. DVB T2
Thanks.

Saorview spec does not include DVB-T2.

Some of the approved boxes are based on the same DVB680 chassis used in the Bush Freeview HD (a few other Vestel rebadges) but the tuner module is different as far as I know.

You would be better off chancing a Freeview HD box, but bear in mind some models have issues with summer time, LCN etc.

The Cush

STB wrote: »

Saorview spec does not include DVB-T2.

Yes for now but will include it from the 1st Jan next for any new products tested from that date.

STB

The Cush wrote: »

Yes for now but will include it from the 1st Jan next for any new products tested from that date.

Yes, I had seen the latest spec sheet.

I wonder has it has raised a few eyebrows in DCENR. You don't just announce a platform change (and thats what DVB-T2 is) within your minimum specifications overnight and especially not during an ASO/DSO campaign, regardless of your intentions for its immediate use. The timing is mindless. To me, it was always MPEG4 AVC on the DVB-T platform with a little bit of Nordig 2.0 and MHEG5 middleware and thats all. A mish mash no doubt, but thats what they chose in 2008 (and updated in 2010) and certified as minimum requirements! Rolling change does not work with a certification process.

What people will have to realise is that the equipment they are buying is already obsolete according to that documentation RTE have released. It makes a mockery of their certification for Saorview and holds no assurances for people buying currently certified equipment. What will they call the new specs certification and what about the already obsolete certified IDTVs!

And by the way if it is a min spec doc, forget about new certification, what about non min spec products being sold after 1/1/13. The manufacturers must think we are right muppets.

One big mess.

lawhec

STB wrote: »

Yes, I had seen the latest spec sheet.

I wonder has it has raised a few eyebrows in DCENR. You don't just announce a platform change (and thats what DVB-T2 is) within your minimum specifications overnight and especially not during an ASO/DSO campaign, regardless of your intentions for its immediate use. The timing is mindless. To me, it was always MPEG4 AVC on the DVB-T platform with a little bit of Nordig 2.0 and MHEG5 middleware and thats all. A mish mash no doubt, but thats what they chose in 2008 (and updated in 2010) and certified as minimum requirements! Rolling change does not work with a certification process.

What people will have to realise is that the equipment they are buying is already obsolete according to that documentation RTE have released. It makes a mockery of their certification for Saorview and holds no assurances for people buying currently certified equipment. What will they call the new specs certification and what about the already obsolete certified IDTVs!

And by the way if it is a min spec doc, forget about new certification, what about non min spec products being sold after 1/1/13. The manufacturers must think we are right muppets.

One big mess.

A platform change is one which is transmitted, not necessarily a receiver spec. Since there are no plans to move Saorview transmissions over to DVB-T2 no Saorview viewers are affected.

The word "obsolete" is thrown around far too liberally on these boards. No current Saorview receiver is obsolete as long as the Saorview platform provides a technical minimum of what it offers right now. All G1 Freesat receivers haven't suddenly become obsolete because G2 spec'd receivers will shortly be available. Same goes for various Sky+ HD receivers, the first Thomson models will not ever get the new EPG or Sky Anytime+ due to hardware constraints. Obsolete would describe something that's no use any more, at least for what it was intended. Obsolete describes the millions of analogue satellite receivers in Germany after April this year.

The Freeview D-Book certification process has undergone many updates since the Digital Tick scheme was introduced - and not surprisingly early models can be victims of not being able to keep up with later advances (as in the Sky+ HD Thomson boxes). Most of the early Freeview HD set-top-boxes don't have good enough hardware to handle the MHEG-IC profile for example - the Metronic T2 Zapbox is one of these yet it still performs what it was originally bought for. I've also an old Panasonic TUCT-20 (one of the first Freeview STB's) that's about nine years old ready to be fired up for a TV at a farmhouse that can't get Freeview yet, but should post-DSO. There have been numerous events in the life of Freeview that have seen receivers sold as such suddenly find a fault or stop working because of a transmission change, be it split-NIT tables or as the switch over has gone region by region, equipment that can't handle 8k COFDM signals.

The update of the Saorview spec. is for long-term future proofing of the platform. Unless they abandon the actual DVB-T MPEG4 AVC spec, such receivers will function for some time to come.

The Cush

STB wrote: »

What people will have to realise is that the equipment they are buying is already obsolete according to that documentation RTE have released.

I disagree because I don't see Saorview moving over to DVB-T2. Maybe some future pay TV service will use it with their own min. receiver spec for CAS etc.

Maybe towards the end of the decade when the regulators want another slice of TV spectrum they might have to consider DVB-T2 just like the UK. By that time even MPEG-4 video decoding might be obsolete.

STB

lawhec wrote: »

A platform change is one which is transmitted, not necessarily a receiver spec. Since there are no plans to move Saorview transmissions over to DVB-T2 no Saorview viewers are affected.

The word "obsolete" is thrown around far too liberally on these boards. No current Saorview receiver is obsolete as long as the Saorview platform provides a technical minimum of what it offers right now.

No. A platform change is one where it is advertiserd and specified in the minimum specification for receivers.

I had already qualified what I said with "regardless of your intentions for its immediate use". You and I and The Cush may speculate that this is a good thing to signal early on the basis that, that is all it is, just an early signal. Unfortunately that gives no comfort to those thinking that they are buying into some mid to long term stability within a certified process. I dont use words like obsolete without good reason.

It sends out the wrong message to the manufacturers overnight who have paid for product certification. The timing is most certainly wrong to announce a platform change in a minimum specification document at DSO/ASO.

Infact, if there is no immediate intention to use the DVB-T2 platform, then why announce it as a minimum requirement when you have a variety of small to large sized manufacturers who have already paid and submitted for a different certification within a very short trailing previous period. Howe will consumers distinguish between the two Saorview certifications ? Should there be a need to cause this confusion, if it is not intended to use DVB-T2 ????

The UK situation you describe regarding 2k issues was 10 years after the initial freeview launch. For a Saorview box to be bought this year that will be no longer in line with the minmimum spec come 1/1/13 is in no way comparible. This is not legacy receivers we are talking about.

Also Freeview distinguished between its initial "Freeview" standard definition and its "Freeview HD" receivers (10 years apart) with seperate certification and branding to highlight the platform move for HD, not a rolling platform change within a certification process like Saorview.

What subscription companies do to their customers is not relevant.

Sam Russell

The standard chosen for Saorview was Nordig 2.2. That standard is a Scandinavian standard not under the control of RTE NL or Saorview and develops with the requirements of the member organisations that control it.

For example, VHF is a requirement but there is no intention to implement that here (as far as I know). A lot of iDTVs that have been certified are already DVB-T2 capable (as they are also certified for FreeviewHD) and in the fullness of time, DVB-T2 will be the standard across Europe anyway.

It is not something anyone should worry about.

winston_1

lawhec wrote: »

There have been numerous events in the life of Freeview that have seen receivers sold as such suddenly find a fault or stop working because of a transmission change, be it split-NIT tables or as the switch over has gone region by region, equipment that can't handle 8k COFDM signals.

The split NIT was always part of the spec. Some manufacturers chose to make equipment that was out of spec.

winston_1

STB wrote: »

Infact, if there is no immediate intention to use the DVB-T2 platform, then why announce it as a minimum requirement when you have a variety of small to large sized manufacturers who have already paid and submitted for a different certification within a very short trailing previous period.

It's a very good move actually. When/if DVB-T2 is introduced in maybe 10 years time there will be a large amount of equipment in use which won't need changing. If it is not made a minimum requirement manufacturers will go for the cheaper option and flood the market with one day to be obsolete kit.

This is exactly what is happening with DAB in the UK. The market is flooded with non DAB+ equipment. Roberts and Pure even sell non DAB+ versions of their radios in the UK which are DAB+ everywhere else. Quoted reason, to save the additional licensing costs. Actual reason, to increase profits.