Boonchu Cup - Caged Muay Thai

scottie pippen

has anyone seen this?

what do you think it ? seems a bit gimmicky to me, but worth a watch
only seen some preliminary fights so far, but all fights were decent.

its basically Muay Thai, but in a cage instead of a ring, and the fighters wear mma gloves, name says it all really

Peetrik

Yeah I saw a promo for this awhile ago. I initially though it was a gimmic but I suppose it has some of the same merits as MMA being in a cage.

In Thai, especially for some of the bigger fighters, going over the ropes during clinch is a real danger. The rings are usually high enough off the ground to provide a clear view to spectators so its no joke really. Cage would solve that issue and would also negate the need for the 3 step/ploughing rule (if you catch a kick you are only allowed to take 3 steps) as this type of thing wouldn't happen in a cage, less rules = good, IMO.

Smaller gloves make it closer to the real thing which is good again... plus the added chance of knockout would make it more exciting to watch.

Should be interesting anyway.

scottie pippen

That Clip you posted is insane!

I'm not too sure about using mma gloves to honest - with accidental eye gouging, or intentional.

Peetrik

Yeah it looked like a rough fall alright lol. I remember seeing a fighter (Paddy Ivors I think it was) go over the ropes and land on a glass of water that was on a judging table at one show, really is no joke. Think it only got him in the knee and he was able to finish the fight.

Same risk as eye pokes in MMA and they seem to manage alright. The clinching would be much more technical with smaller gloves and the ability to hold at any rate

Khannie

Yeah, Jay went over the top at the Red Cow one time too. It's a fair fall. Good old adrenaline. Loose ropes are a pet hate of mine. I've felt like I might go over the top more than once.

RainMaker

Why do they use a ring in Muay Thai anyway? I assume it has been "inherited" from western boxing? Back in Muay Boran days did they just use some sort of line in the sand or something for contests anyway?

Seems it would make more sense to at least have another rope to give more support in the clinch at least...

Just a random thought really

scottie pippen

RainMaker wrote: »

Why do they use a ring in Muay Thai anyway? I assume it has been "inherited" from western boxing? Back in Muay Boran days did they just use some sort of line in the sand or something for contests anyway?

Seems it would make more sense to at least have another rope to give more support in the clinch at least...

Just a random thought really

was just going to post something similar!

sonic85

any links?

Peetrik

sonic85 wrote: »

any links?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=boonchu+cup

RainMaker

Peetrik wrote: »

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=boonchu+cup

You mean I have to click that, and then click something else as well?? Jeez...

sonic85

Peetrik wrote: »

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=boonchu+cup

cheers!

Niall Keane

Throwing someone over the ropes is a valid 2 point technique in Sanda, and was incorporated into the mixed Sanda / Muay Thai rule set between China and Thailand.

Though there's a difference if it's in the rules as you can expect it then.

chprt

It aint muay thai, one of the first rules of muay thai, is that it must be in a ring, with 4 ropes.

Some of the boxing rings now are very bad for loose ropes, I got my ring purpose built for Muay Thai so the ropes are 6" higher and made of steel wire, and ovbiously wrapped in foam etc, so they will never slacken, and its very hard to get anyone over the top rope.

I think its JWP trying to cash in on the MMA scene, which in my opinion is a shame, we have a lovely sport, the best and toughest ring sport in the world, these MMA gloves will only take from the sport where lads will be looking for gorilla KOs and not fighting a nice thai style, we would end up looking like K1 clowns with MMA gloves on

Pat correct me if I am wrong but your only allowed 2 steps forward before you throw a weapon, but you can take any amount of steps backwards while holding the leg

Peetrik

chprt wrote: »

Pat correct me if I am wrong but your only allowed 2 steps forward before you throw a weapon, but you can take any amount of steps backwards while holding the leg

Oops, yep you're right and I'm wrong there. Only 2 steps allowed.

scotty22

Agree 100% paddy it wood just turn into wild sloppy k1...mma use Muay Thai cause it's one of the best martial art so y wood we need to copy them..it's grand the way it is

Peetrik

scotty22 wrote: »

Agree 100% paddy it wood just turn into wild sloppy k1...

I don't see why, if its Thai boxers fighting there would be no reason for them to suddenly start being sloppy just because its in a cage.

I can fully understand why some wouldn't like it for the same reasons that some people much prefer there be a wai khru before even an amateur fight as otherwise its not real Muay Thai... but by the same token I'm sure some didn't like it when gloves were introduced or when headbutts and groin strikes were made illegal. Its natural that sports evolve.

The one clip I saw of it looked like decent enough standard. Suppose time will tell

scotty22

It wood be the mma type gloves that wood make people swing wildly not the cage part...the head butts and groin shots were for the battlefields and wars which was muay boran(I think that is Wat it was called) and not muay Thai

Peetrik

scotty22 wrote: »

It wood be the mma type gloves that wood make people swing wildly not the cage part...the head butts and groin shots were for the battlefields and wars which was muay boran(I think that is Wat it was called) and not muay Thai

Actually groin strikes were allowed up until recently enough (late 80's?), you could argue that its been legal for the majority of the time that Muay Thai has been around and the the current 'no groin strikes' isn't real Muay Thai. Don't get me wrong, both myself and my fiance are very glad there are no groins strikes allowed currently
My point is that stamping out evolution simply because something is not traditional is a little dodgy, you run the risk of becoming stagnant and falling behind the way some other TMAs have clearly done by failing to incorporate modern training methods that have proven to be effective.

Let me stress, I'm not saying that is the case here at all... I would just prefer to wait and see a bit more before writing the whole idea off.

NaoiseC

You may be slightly off there Pat. As I understand it knees to the groin aren't allowed anymore, but kicks etc are not prohibited by the rules.

Previously heard a ref during weigh in rules talk say that "we can't see anything about it in the rules, so unless it's a blatantly malicious knee you can either get on with it or take the 8 count"

Haven't seen it often though as it would be pretty bad form. Usually seems an accident and the kicker often eases off

Peetrik

Ah ok, I was just taking the groin strikes thing from the Tony Myers write up on Judging under the fouls section.

"Deliberately striking the groin area (A boxer, who the referee considers to have been hit in the groin with force may request a 5 minute break before continuing the match. A boxer considered by the referee to be faking an injury from a groin kick would be asked to continue to fight and may receive a warning or a count)"

You could well be right though, Thai rules and scoring are always clear as mud.

scotty22

Also if it ain't broke dont try to fix it...mma glove r designed so the user can wrestle and do them toe locks . Most sports don't have to change to stay interesting take football for example hasn't changed majorly and still people watch and play it fanatically

Chris Dowling

Khannie wrote: »

Yeah, Jay went over the top at the Red Cow one time too. It's a fair fall. Good old adrenaline. Loose ropes are a pet hate of mine. I've felt like I might go over the top more than once.

Well I understand personally why it's bad going over a rope( happened to e and got KO'd on impact of the floor) but there are rules governing the tension of the ropes , they have to be tense to an extent yet safe for the fighters, if ropes were to maximum tension they could result in more injuries, especially the bottom and top ropes !

Niall Keane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FCDKabF7YQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Have a look at 2.55 - perfectly legal!
Only softies use a cage!

Peetrik

Someone was decent enough to send me a copy of the full Boonchu Cup show (thanks again) and I got a look at it over the weekend, it was actually a really impressive, top quality show with some real wars on it.

There was deffo an element of people looking for the gorilla knockout with the smaller gloves but I think most fights went the full distance or at least wern't finished with punches so I don't think the 4oz gloves were as big a game changer as some would think.
Whatever about it not being 'real Thai' the quality or the striking was fantastic, so Thai or not I'd definitely be on the look out to see more of it.

On a side note, after seeing the quality of the Aussies striking I'm really looking forward to seeing Dane fight on the upcoming Siam warriors show in cork on the 6th