.204

DogfoxCork

hi lads,
just a quick one, what rounds are users of the .204 rem and remington 700 vssf (the one with the fluted barrel) using? i hear the 40gn ones can be a bit inconsistent at ranges but the 39gn and 45gn rounds group better at long range. can anyone give me any person experience?

tomcat220t

DogfoxCork wrote: »

hi lads,
just a quick one, what rounds are users of the .204 rem and remington 700 vssf (the one with the fluted barrel) using? i hear the 40gn ones can be a bit inconsistent at ranges but the 39gn and 45gn rounds group better at long range. can anyone give me any person experience?

Hi DogfoxCork, 39grSBK is a great round for the .204 but Federal are no longer making them ...as far as i know .Should be plenty on the shelf ,still.
40gr rounds are more hit or miss as to how they shoot in most factory 1/12 twist rifles .1/11 twist is better suited for the 40gr ,imo.
32gr work well but not so good past 300 yards on windy day .
Ive shot the 45gr hornady S/P and they worked well in my 1/12 twist barrel .
Heard of a gun shop selling 32gr and 40gr hornady at 23.50 a box .......GREAT price
Regards ,Tomcat.

DogfoxCork

thanks very much, so would you recommend the 45gn over the 32gn? i dont want to be chopping and changing between rounds and zeroing etc

tomcat220t

DogfoxCork wrote: »

thanks very much, so would you recommend the 45gn over the 32gn? i dont want to be chopping and changing between rounds and zeroing etc

Neither of them come close to the 39gr SBK in therms of accuracy and shooting through the wind out past 500 yards .
The 32 gr will be flatter but wont penetrate as well as the 45gr S/P .
The 32gr might suit best between the two but past 200-300 yards, wind and shot placement can become a big factor with such a light round on foxes .
Short answer ,i personally wouldnt buy a .204 if i could only shoot 32gr or 45gr !
My advice ,try buy up the remanding 39gr that are left in the gun shops or be one of the first here and get a proper 1/11 twist custom barrel to shoot all the 20cal factory ammo including the mighty 40gr hornady .
Best of luck ,Tomact.

zeissman

My remington vssf 204 would shoot the 32 and 39 grain bullets but not the 40 grain v max.
Its a pity federal no longer make the 39 grain bullets because they seemed to shoot great in every rifle.
I have since rebarreled my rifle with a 1/10 twist lothar walther barrel and accuracy is great now with the 40 and 32 grain bullets.

tomcat220t

zeissman wrote: »

My remington vssf 204 would shoot the 32 and 39 grain bullets but not the 40 grain v max.
Its a pity federal no longer make the 39 grain bullets because they seemed to shoot great in every rifle.
I have since rebarreled my rifle with a 1/10 twist lothar walther barrel and accuracy is great now with the 40 and 32 grain bullets.

Hi Zeissman ,was there a reason for going tighter than a 1/11 twist ?
Regards ,Tomcat .

Keelan

I had the .204 a few years ago for foxes. Had nothing but problems with it. It was not a great killer of foxes either. I changed to the .223 and never looked back at the time. Best caliber for foxes in my opinion, huge range of bullets and a lot cheaper too. !

tomcat220t

Keelan wrote: »

I had the .204 a few years ago for foxes. Had nothing but problems with it. It was not a great killer of foxes either. I changed to the .223 and never looked back at the time. Best caliber for foxes in my opinion, huge range of bullets and a lot cheaper too. !

What rounds were you using with the .204 ?

DogfoxCork

surely if i had a moderator on the rifle that would stabilise the 40gn round somewhat, it has a 26" barrell

zeissman

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi Zeissman ,was there a reason for going tighter than a 1/11 twist ?
Regards ,Tomcat .

My first choice was a pac-nor 1/11 twist but my gunsmith could get a lothar walther quicker and for less money so I went for that.
They only make a 1/10 or 1/12 twist for the 204 so I took a chance on the 1/10.

zeissman

Keelan wrote: »

I had the .204 a few years ago for foxes. Had nothing but problems with it. It was not a great killer of foxes either. I changed to the .223 and never looked back at the time. Best caliber for foxes in my opinion, huge range of bullets and a lot cheaper too. !

I dont know what was wrong with your rifle but Im shooting a 204 since late 2005 and every fox I shot dropped on the spot.
I had a 220 swift and a 243 before that and the 204 kills them just as well.

tomcat220t

DogfoxCork wrote: »

surely if i had a moderator on the rifle that would stabilise the 40gn round somewhat, it has a 26" barrell

Try the 40 gr and see if they work .1/12 twist is right on the edge of stablizing the round .
Some of Ruger .204 rifles with suggested 1/12 twist factory barrels seem to shoot 40gr hornady .You could be lucky with your remington and have a slightly tighter twist ...1/11.75 ,who knows ?

Cant see how a moderator would create more bullet spin on a rifle ?
Regards ,Tomcat .

DogfoxCork

tomcat220t wrote: »

Try the 40 gr and see if they work .1/12 twist is right on the edge of stablizing the round .
Some of Ruger .204 rifles with suggested 1/12 twist factory barrels seem to shoot 40gr hornady .You could be lucky with your remington and have a slightly tighter twist ...1/11.75 ,who knows ?

Cant see how a moderator would create more bullet spin on a rifle ?
Regards ,Tomcat .

ill try the 40's and see what they can do

i wasnt talking about creating more bullet spin with a mod, more along the lines of tightening groups. my friends .223 groups far better with a mod on than with the mod off.

zeissman

DogfoxCork wrote: »

ill try the 40's and see what they can do

i wasnt talking about creating more bullet spin with a mod, more along the lines of tightening groups. my friends .223 groups far better with a mod on than with the mod off.

If it wont shoot the 40's a mod wont help.
Some light barreled rifles shoot better with a mod on.
My rifles have the same accuracy with the mod on or off although point of impact changes slightly.

tomcat220t

zeissman wrote: »

I dont know what was wrong with your rifle but Im shooting a 204 since late 2005 and every fox I shot dropped on the spot.
I had a 220 swift and a 243 before that and the 204 kills them just as well.

Hi Zeissman,
Totally agree.....
Since i sold my .204 last year, i have not found a caliber better suited as a foxing that the 20cal .
As for killing power with the 39gr SBK ....foxes ,rabbits and even feral goats did not stand a chance .
The .204 is easy the best caliber for foxing with the right set-up and ammo .
Regards ,Tomcat.

DogfoxCork

zeissman wrote: »

If it wont shoot the 40's a mod wont help.
Some light barreled rifles shoot better with a mod on.
My rifles have the same accuracy with the mod on or off although point of impact changes slightly.

ok thanks, the rifle in question is the remington vssf with the fluted 26" barrel. when you say "might not shoot the 40gn" do you mean that it will just group poorly at long ranges? ie; 1 or 2" groups? or worse. because from what ive seen from others with a .204 is that you should be able to put the round through the same hole at 300yds in good conditions.

tomcat220t

DogfoxCork wrote: »

ill try the 40's and see what they can do

i wasnt talking about creating more bullet spin with a mod, more along the lines of tightening groups. my friends .223 groups far better with a mod on than with the mod off.

Hi DogfoxCork,its not a lack of accuracy the stops the 40gr from shooting ....its more to do with lack of spin .
Only 2 things might help that issue ....more velocity or tighter twist .
Regards Tomcat.

DogfoxCork

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi DogfoxCork,its not a lack of accuracy the stops the 40gr from shooting ....its more to do with lack of spin .
Only 2 things might help that issue ....more velocity or tighter twist .
Regards Tomcat.

so would having a 26" barrel improve my chances?

zeissman

DogfoxCork wrote: »

so would having a 26" barrel improve my chances?

My remington had a 26in fluted barrel but groups were poor with the 40's
2 to 3 inches at 100 yards but all rifles are different so you will have to try them to see.
Tomcatt is right about the ruger 204's
I have shot 4 of them and they all shot the 40's very well so if I was buying a new 204 the ruger would be my first choice.

tomcat220t

DogfoxCork wrote: »

so would having a 26" barrel improve my chances?

Hi DogfoxCork, i had a remmy 26" Vls before getting a custom barrel fitted .It shoot the 40gr about 2" at 100 yards with the factory barrel and when i changed to a custom 1/12 twist it would shoot .5"at 100 and about 1.5"-2" at 200 yards with the 40gr hornady .
The 39gr with the custom barrel shot most times .75" at 300 yards .
So that told me, that even with the custom 1/12 barrel it was still not stablizing the 40gr hornady correctly .
The optimum twist rate to shoot all the factory ammo for the .204 is 1/11 .
Try and see if you barrel will like the 40gr or not .....shoot it at a bit of distance just to be sure .
Regards ,Tomcat.

DogfoxCork

thanks a mil for your advice guys, think im going to go for a .223 remmy thats being offered to me as it seems to outweigh the .204 option in price and stress levels.

Stonehall9

Hi lads, was out with my new .204 ruger last nite . 5 shots and 5 foxes down, closest was 78 yards, furthest was 197 yards using 40 g hornady v max.

tomcat220t

Stonehall9 wrote: »

Hi lads, was out with my new .204 ruger last nite . 5 shots and 5 foxes down, closest was 78 yards, furthest was 197 yards using 40 g hornady v max.

Hi Stonehall9,that good results with your .204 :cool:
Another Ruger rifle shooting the 40gr .
Regards ,Tomcat.

.james1984

hey there, im using federal green tip 39gr bullets in my 204 and its one shot one kill out to 6 or 700 yards. i have used a swift, a 223 a 222, a hornet. you name it. the 204 is by far the best killing round ive ever used. it dont like the hornady vmax bullets so stay clear. when you find what its likes stick with it and every time you pull the trigger it will be lights out for whatevers in the cross hairs

tomcat220t

.james1984 wrote: »

hey there, im using federal green tip 39gr bullets in my 204 and its one shot one kill out to 6 or 700 yards. i have used a swift, a 223 a 222, a hornet. you name it. the 204 is by far the best killing round ive ever used. it dont like the hornady vmax bullets so stay clear. when you find what its likes stick with it and every time you pull the trigger it will be lights out for whatevers in the cross hairs

Hi james1984,thats fine shooting with the 39gr SBK:cool:
Some shooters find it hard to understand just how good the .204 can be because of how small the round is :rolleyes:
Regards,Tomcat.

.james1984

completely agree with ya tom cat. ive a .243 for shooting deer and i always regarded it as a serious round on a fox with the 55gr winchester silver tips. since i got the 204 it aint seen a fox and i dont think it will unless i run out if bullets

Jonty

.james1984 wrote: »

hey there, im using federal green tip 39gr bullets in my 204 and its one shot one kill out to 6 or 700 yards. i have used a swift, a 223 a 222, a hornet. you name it. the 204 is by far the best killing round ive ever used. it dont like the hornady vmax bullets so stay clear. when you find what its likes stick with it and every time you pull the trigger it will be lights out for whatevers in the cross hairs

600 or 700 yards? I'd love to see that

.james1984

head shot. lights out

Glensman

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi Zeissman,
Totally agree.....
Since i sold my .204 last year, i have not found a caliber better suited as a foxing that the 20cal .
As for killing power with the 39gr SBK ....foxes ,rabbits and even feral goats did not stand a chance .
The .204 is easy the best caliber for foxing with the right set-up and ammo .
Regards ,Tomcat.

I'll post some Pics of what TomCat's 204 has been doing with 39gr SBKs since he sold it! The brother has 39 foxes so far this season with it...

.james1984

once you find a bullet it likes they are unreal. head shooting rabbits is more fun than with a .17hmr

hedzball

Jonty wrote: »

600 or 700 yards? I'd love to see that

.james1984 wrote: »

head shot. lights out

With a 204 ?? 550 + metres??

What are ya shooting in the head elephants?.

I dont get this whole 204/223 debate..

most fellas are mad to shoot the 39/40gr.. I hear all the "flat shooting"

Check out the ballistics of a 223 40gr vmax to a 204vmax.. 1.2 inches lower at 300 yards.. Not too many shooting foxes past that.. well some of us are head shotting at 6-700 yards :pac::pac::pac:

End of the day no calibre is better then the other.. they are all built for a purpose and for each they serve it well..

I was torn between the both but it came down to availability/price in the end of the day.. 204 rounds just couldnt be gotten..

Ended up going for a 223 and a 204 is in the family too :cool::cool:


'hdz

meathstevie

I'm far from an expert on metalurgy or physics but could it be that a mod in some cases can have a positive effect on barrel harmonics ?

Glensman

Well...

I have a Semi Custom Remmy 700 in .223
The brother has a Semi Custom Remmy 700 in .204

I bought both. I reload for both.

Personally, I think the .204 shades it.

tomcat220t

Glensman wrote: »

Well...

I have a Semi Custom Remmy 700 in .223
The brother has a Semi Custom Remmy 700 in .204

I bought both. I reload for both.

Personally, I think the .204 shades it.

Hi Glensman ,hope your brother was as happy my .204, as i was ?
When you say SHADES it .....not sure what ya mean ,sorry .
Did reloading the .204 work out more accurate than factory ammo ?
Regards ,Tomcat.

tomcat220t

hedzball wrote: »

With a 204 ?? 550 + metres??

What are ya shooting in the head elephants?.

I dont get this whole 204/223 debate..

most fellas are mad to shoot the 39/40gr.. I hear all the "flat shooting"

Check out the ballistics of a 223 40gr vmax to a 204vmax.. 1.2 inches lower at 300 yards.. Not too many shooting foxes past that.. well some of us are head shotting at 6-700 yards :pac::pac::pac:

End of the day no calibre is better then the other.. they are all built for a purpose and for each they serve it well..

I was torn between the both but it came down to availability/price in the end of the day.. 204 rounds just couldnt be gotten..

Ended up going for a 223 and a 204 is in the family too :cool::cool:


'hdz

Hi hedzball,i had both .223 and .204 and even where the figures may show only a few inches difference @300 yards , i found out in the field the .204 seems way ahead in the wind and accuracy .
Even on paper i found the .204 very accurate at 500 and beyond .
Regards,Tomcat.

.james1984

hey hedz. proper scope and a by pod flat calm. give it 3 mil dots and you will pop tacks with it. 204 well able for it. dont get me wrong. the 223 is a fine rifle and well able for big distances. may i add that i dont shoot anything past 250 to 300 at night but where i live i have big valleys and we call the fox cubs during the day.

The Aussie

hedzball wrote: »

I dont get this whole 204/223 debate..
'hdz

Ah man, its like debating religion, its just not going to end well, never has and never will...

Glensman

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi Glensman ,hope your brother was as happy my .204, as i was ?
When you say SHADES it .....not sure what ya mean ,sorry .
Did reloading the .204 work out more accurate than factory ammo ?
Regards ,Tomcat.

I think it shades the .223 in performance due to being more flat shooting.
The brother doesn't use a range finder, he has a leupold varmint reitcle and estimates in his head, points, shoots. The .204 is ideal for this!

I didn't work very hard on load development being honest.

All I did was:
Took a factory load and measured OAL from the o-give.
Then I chrono'd 3 factory rounds and took the average. Then I made some reloads and played with the charge until I got the same speed as the factory round. As I'm using the same case, head and OAL I am getting the same accuracy, not better or worse. Probably more consistent and a lot cheaper just...

tomcat220t

H,Glensman,just goes to show how accurate out of the box factory ammo can be :cool:.Any foxes shot at distance with your .204?
What spec and ammo is your .223

Regards ,Tomcat.

Glensman

tomcat220t wrote: »

H,Glensman,just goes to show how accurate out of the box factory ammo can be :cool:.Any foxes shot at distance with your .204?
What spec and ammo is your .223

Regards ,Tomcat.

Yeah the brother has stepped them out at over 350. Our area is heavily lamped so you get very few easy ones. I must upload some of his pics when I get a chance.

My .223 is a Remmy VSSF II. Trued, target crown and re-thread, fluted Remmy barrel. Polished bolt and lugs, Jewell Trigger, Pillar bedded into a H&S stock.

Ammo is 50gr v-max (soon to be 53gr when I run out) over RE7 powder and Remmy BR primers. Shoots cloverleaf groups at 100yards with no problems.
I have the Sightron SII 8-32x56 on Top. It's an accurate (if slightly heavy) set-up. I really do love it. I have taken rabbits at 370+ with it. My longest fox was a 230yard headshot on the first night I took it out...

tomcat220t

Hi Glensman,
when you brother gets going with that .204 dont be shocked to see him knocking foxes and rabbits out to 500 yards;)400 yard+ was normal enough shots ,on good days .
Good to see the rifle is doing its job .
Regards,Tomcat.

Glensman

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi Glensman,
when you brother gets going with that .204 dont be shocked to see him knocking foxes and rabbits out to 500 yards;)400 yard+ was normal enough shots ,on good days .
Good to see the rifle is doing its job .
Regards,Tomcat.

Well he's told me about a few that were over 400. But he said there were rivers and things so he couldn't step it out and he doesnt own a rangefinder, so I decided to take a good few yards off for caution!!!

He says he shot one last week and it looked like a mouse in the scope it was that far away!

tomcat220t

Glensman wrote: »

Well he's told me about a few that were over 400. But he said there were rivers and things so he couldn't step it out and he doesnt own a rangefinder, so I decided to take a good few yards off for caution!!!

He says he shot one last week and it looked like a mouse in the scope it was that far away!

Hi Glensman,how many .223s have you seen that easy to shoot at distance ?
The difference between the 2 calibers become more and more apparent the greater distances they are shot out to,IMO!
Regards,Tomcat.

4200fps

.james1984 wrote: »

hey there, im using federal green tip 39gr bullets in my 204 and its one shot one kill out to 6 or 700 yards. i have used a swift, a 223 a 222, a hornet. you name it. the 204 is by far the best killing round ive ever used. it dont like the hornady vmax bullets so stay clear. when you find what its likes stick with it and every time you pull the trigger it will be lights out for whatevers in the cross hairs

Does federal have 39grain bullets for that caliber. Thats unreal shooting at that range. Whats your bullet drop at 700 yards. must be 60inches at least. What make of scope have you and what magnification is it?

.james1984

4200fps wrote: »

Does federal have 39grain bullets for that caliber. Thats unreal shooting at that range. Whats your bullet drop at 700 yards. must be 60inches at least. What make of scope have you and what magnification is it?

hi there. my mistake. they a 40gr green ballistic tip bullet. ive a zeiss victory FL DIAVARI 6x24x56. i also have a wildcat predator 8 mob on it. you are right. its closer to 70. its about 37 inches low at 500. its zeroed at 200

4200fps

.james1984 wrote: »

hi there. my mistake. they a 40gr green ballistic tip bullet. ive a zeiss victory FL DIAVARI 6x24x56. i also have a wildcat predator 8 mob on it. you are right. its closer to 70. its about 37 inches low at 500. its zeroed at 200

Fantastic kit and shooting :cool: You need that standard of optics for that standard of shooting

.james1984

4200fps wrote: »

Fantastic kit and shooting :cool: You need that standard of optics for that standard of shooting

thank you. the scope was 2nd hand but it was never used and bought for me. only for that i wouldnt have it. have a zeiss duralyt on the 243. they a serious scope

Glensman

tomcat220t wrote: »

Hi Glensman,how many .223s have you seen that easy to shoot at distance ?
The difference between the 2 calibers become more and more apparent the greater distances they are shot out to,IMO!
Regards,Tomcat.

Not many!
But then I don't know very many serious shooters :rolleyes:

Keelan

zeissman wrote: »

I dont know what was wrong with your rifle but Im shooting a 204 since late 2005 and every fox I shot dropped on the spot.
I had a 220 swift and a 243 before that and the 204 kills them just as well.

Their was noting wrong with the rifle. It was a fussy fecker and i personally think the .204 caliber is very fussy and expensive, compared to a .223, which can do the job just the same and better working out a lot cheaper too. ..
.223 all the way for me for fox control.
I have also shot a LOT of goats with the .223 and it did a very good clean job....!!