Starting pay for a graduate electrical engineer

Funkyman

Hi all,

Just enquiring as to a ballpark salary for a starting electrical engineering grad with no experience in design (I have seen it is around 23 k ish).

I was offered a job with a large design company this week for 18k and told my considerable previous experience as an electrical foreman was the reason.
Although I am elated at the job offer and design is a path i wish to gain experience in, im in two minds as to whether to negiotiate for another two or three grand.

Would this be a better idea six months down the line ?.

Any advice out there ?.

Thanks.

mawk

I think its a little on the low side. its only beating minimum wage by 35c per hour.
Experience is obviously more valuable but its still not easy to live on 9 quid per hour in the meantime

cozzie55

I can't speak for electrical engineers, but i can say civil engineers are getting around the 23k mark, so surely ye should be getting somewhere in and around that mark seen as civil eng are the lowest paid engineers at the moment

Pure_Cork

Most mech eng grads I know wouldn't work for less than €30k/year starting off.

CatFromHue

Pure_Cork wrote: »

Most mech eng grads I know wouldn't work for less than €30k/year starting off.

Do they have a job?

shanered

Sure try your luck, no harm in coming out and asking for more, just make it convincing and that you believe you will be able to offer the company value for money!
Better to come out straight away rather then let it annoy you without stating your feeling!

2011

Funkyman wrote: »

Hi all,
I was offered a job with a large design company this week for 18k and told my considerable previous experience as an electrical foreman was the reason.

Very low rate IMHO.
As mawk says this is only €0.35 / hr above minimum wage. I wonder what portion of that rate is due to your experience as an electrical foreman?
(I assume you are also a time served electrician if you have worked as an electrical foreman)

I have seen a recent increase in demand for electrical, instrumentation and automation engineers. I know that the consultancy that I work for have taken on several electrical engineers recently including graduates. I have no idea of the salary they were offered.

Pure_Cork

CatFromHue wrote: »

Do they have a job?

Yes. Most of them walked into jobs.

Gurgle

Assuming Hons B. Eng, €18k is very low
€30k is fantasy for a graduate without any experience (your mates are lying Pure_Cork)

Design experience is worth a lot more than money. For graduates without experience, its always been higher starting wages in a factory supporting a production line than working in design / R&D.

There's a reason for this: On a production line you're doing useful work within a few weeks, in R&D you're no more than a junior nuisance for at least 6 months. To get you onto the R&D career path, it would be worthwhile taking this job even if you had to pay them.

I'd try them for more but take it either way.
Clock up a year or two worth of experience, then you're in a position to negotiate.

Pure_Cork

Gurgle wrote: »

Assuming Hons B. Eng, €18k is very low
€30k is fantasy for a graduate without any experience (your mates are lying Pure_Cork)

Design experience is worth a lot more than money. For graduates without experience, its always been higher starting wages in a factory supporting a production line than working in design / R&D.

There's a reason for this: On a production line you're doing useful work within a few weeks, in R&D you're no more than a junior nuisance for at least 6 months. To get you onto the R&D career path, it would be worthwhile taking this job even if you had to pay them.

I'd try them for more but take it either way.
Clock up a year or two worth of experience, then you're in a position to negotiate.

No lies. €30k is the typical starting salary. Some, including myself, started off on more.

Gurgle

Pure_Cork wrote: »

No lies. €30k is the typical starting salary. Some, including myself, started off on more.

Fair play to you is all I can say then

2Cans

Any idea's on salary for
lvl 7 elect technician with 8yrs experience in several design office
I have interview and I am wondering what to ask for.......cheers

2011

Pure_Cork wrote: »

No lies. €30k is the typical starting salary. Some, including myself, started off on more.

+1
I have seen this as well

CatFromHue

Brightwater (a recruitment company) have a salary guide on their website.
18K is too low if you ask me.

http://www.brightwater.ie/salary-survey.aspx

Knifey Spoony

I'm a newly qualified electronic engineer (I know, not really the same as an electrical engineer) working as an RF design engineer and I'm on 27k a year. Was offered 30k a year off a large multi-national corporation, but turned that down purely for experience reasons. So in comparison, that rate above seems a bit low. I also know that there are people in my class who have gotten graduate jobs with over 30k salary, but that would be in the electronics industry again.

My friend was telling me the other night that a newly graduated civil engineer he knows, what offered a job in Dublin, in civil engineering for around 18k though. So, it looks like there is a very wide spread in starting salaries for graduate engineers.

djpbarry

Funkyman wrote: »

Although I am elated at the job offer and design is a path i wish to gain experience in, im in two minds as to whether to negiotiate for another two or three grand.

No harm in asking. It shows you have confidence in your ability. All they can say is no. It's highly unlikely that they'd withdraw the job offer on the back of you trying to negotiate a better wage!

mawk wrote: »

Experience is obviously more valuable but its still not easy to live on 9 quid per hour in the meantime

€9 per hour is plenty for a single person with no dependents. Besides, it's not like (s)he'll be on it forever.

Pure_Cork wrote: »

Most mech eng grads I know wouldn't work for less than €30k/year starting off.

I am highly sceptical. There must be an extreme shortage of mechanical engineers in Ireland? There must also be a whole bunch of mechanical engineering vacancies if employers are having to pay those kind of rates to graduates?

Fianna Fowl

Started on £18K myself in 1999, hired a graduate last year for €24k.

Its more about getting a start than what you start on

Xrox

I just started work as a Graduate Electrical Engineer this week for a multinational design firm in the uk and i'm getting £23,500 a year which is little over €29,000. (company only offers Engineering grads of any dicpline £21,000 - £23,500)

I too am a former electrician and would of worked for far less just to get my foot in the door, but as was previously said its all about getting a start.

pljudge321

2011 wrote: »

+1
I have seen this as well

Same here, some of my classmates started on €29k and one started on €33k. Over in the UK some companies like Jaguar are offering ~£30k starting positions.

2011

djpbarry wrote: »

€9 per hour is plenty for a single person with no dependents. Besides, it's not like (s)he'll be on it forever.

Frequently it is not.

Try paying rent, and running a car on a gross of €351 per week.

spideog7

18k does seem very low for any engineer. Somewhere in the realm of 27k to 30k would be more realistic for an Electronic Engineer, although I've heard it went down a bit after '08.

Personally I would have been anticipating around 27k when I graduated but I happened to have pretty bad timing so actually emigrated to the US and started on $20k which in '09 was about E14k, but it's all about getting a start right?

djpbarry

pljudge321 wrote: »

Same here, some of my classmates started on €29k and one started on €33k.

How do you know? Because they told you?

pljudge321 wrote: »

Over in the UK some companies like Jaguar are offering ~£30k starting positions...

...to exceptional candidates. The average engineering graduate will not start on anywhere near £30k in the UK.

2011 wrote: »

Try paying rent, and running a car on a gross of €351 per week.

Move closer to work. Sell the car. Sorted.

pljudge321

djpbarry wrote: »

How do you know? Because they told you?
...to exceptional candidates. The average engineering graduate will not start on anywhere near £30k in the UK.
Move closer to work. Sell the car. Sorted.

The €27K jobs are with Intel, 3 people in my class are in there now. Even at that they are still looking for people. Analog Devices advertised similar wages for their graduate program, they had around 50 places as well. The €33k is with a power systems company, an area where there is a massive lack of people internationally.

The Jaguar jobs were at the higher end of the pay scale but the point is that the jobs exist. Jaguar were looking for a massive amount of graduates this year

Also €9 is less than I ever earned doing any of the internships I did during my undergrad, you'd earn more in a shop. The argument that the experience is worth it doesn't really hold up if you can get the experience and a better wage in a different company.

djpbarry

pljudge321 wrote: »

The Jaguar jobs were at the higher end of the pay scale but the point is that the jobs exist.

Oh I don’t doubt for a second that it’s possible for a graduate to start off on more than €30k per annum. I just think it should be noted that, as you say, this is most definitely at the upper end of the pay scale. Anyone coming out of Uni thinking €30k+ is the norm is in for a very serious reality check, especially here in the UK.

pljudge321 wrote: »

Also €9 is less than I ever earned doing any of the internships I did during my undergrad, you'd earn more in a shop.

I don’t think anyone is arguing otherwise.

enda1

Well I started on about 36k as a mech grad. So I think 30k is well achievable. Of course in Ireland this will be very difficult!

00MARTZ00

Jaysus i would love to be getting 27k to 30k when i graduate!

djpbarry

enda1 wrote: »

So I think 30k is well achievable. Of course in Ireland this will be very difficult!

You're kind of contradicting yourself there?

2011

djpbarry wrote: »

How do you know? Because they told you?

I worked for a consultancy on work experience in a design office while in college. During this time I was paid more than the rate offered to the OP despite the fact that I was primarily there to learn and assist.

Once I graduated I was offered a position with the same consultancy.
My starting salary was far in excess of €18K. That was 4 years ago, I have been with the same consultancy (E & I desidn role) ever since.

Like the OP I am also a qualified electrician.

Move closer to work. Sell the car. Sorted.

Not always that simple.
For many engineers a car is essential to employment.

I am working in a pharma plant 50km in one direction at the moment. I could be in the office for a few days next week (about 50km in the other direction).

Public transport is not an option, there is none.
Hours vary to suit the workload and client so car pooling can be very difficult at best.

I am not suggesting that all electrical engineering grads start off on a great salary, just that in my experience €18K is very low.

enda1

djpbarry wrote: »

You're kind of contradicting yourself there?

How? OP didn't ask about conditions in Ireland.

djpbarry

2011 wrote: »

I worked for a consultancy on work experience in a design office while in college. During this time I was paid more than the rate offered to the OP despite the fact that I was primarily there to learn and assist.

I should clarify once again that I don’t think the rate offered to the OP is reasonable.

2011 wrote: »

I am working in a pharma plant 50km in one direction at the moment. I could be in the office for a few days next week (about 50km in the other direction).

There is absolutely no way someone getting paid €9 per hour would be expected to flit between two locations 100km apart.

2011 wrote: »

I am not suggesting that all electrical engineering grads start off on a great salary, just that in my experience €18K is very low.

I am absolutely not disputing that – it is very low. I think mid-20s is a more reasonable estimate of where fresh graduates can expect to start.

enda1 wrote: »

How? OP didn't ask about conditions in Ireland.

Fair enough.

chris85

I am mech engineering (with masters so bit different maybe) but started recently in grad role and on €33k starting.

2011

djpbarry wrote: »

There is absolutely no way someone getting paid €9 per hour would be expected to flit between two locations 100km apart.

I couldn't agree more.

Which is why when you said:

€9 per hour is plenty for a single person with no dependents. Besides, it's not like (s)he'll be on it forever.

I responded with:

Frequently it is not.

Try paying rent, and running a car on a gross of €351 per week.

djpbarry

2011 wrote: »

I couldn't agree more.

Which is why when you said:

I responded with:

Which still doesn't make any sense?

2011

djpbarry wrote: »

Which still doesn't make any sense?

Your point was that €9 per hour is "plenty" for a single person with no dependents to live on.

My response was that in many cases it is not.
I went on to explain that for some positions a car is essential and unaffordable on €9 per hour.

You then agreed that in the example I gave this rate of pay would not be sufficient.

Which part confuses you?


BTW during the week I talked to the a director of a large electrical contracting company.
They have just taken on a graduate electrical engineer, his salary is €24k

djpbarry

2011 wrote: »

Your point was that €9 per hour is "plenty" for a single person with no dependents to live on.

My response was that in many cases it is not.
I went on to explain that for some positions a car is essential and unaffordable on €9 per hour.

Basically what you're saying is roles exist that require a car, and therefore, €9 per hour is going to be too low a salary in those cases.

But that ignores the very obvious fact that a role which requires a car is going to pay a lot more than €9 per hour.

Would you do your job for €9 per hour?

Therefore, my point still stands.

2011

djpbarry wrote: »

Basically what you're saying is roles exist that require a car, and therefore, €9 per hour is going to be too low a salary in those cases.

Yes.
I am also saying that €9/hr is too low for a graduate electrical engineer full stop. Having to run a car exacerbates the issue.

But that ignores the very obvious fact that a role which requires a car is going to pay a lot more than €9 per hour.

So are you suggesting that your earlier statement "€9 per hour is plenty for a single person with no dependents" should read "€9 per hour is plenty for a single person with no dependents once there is no requirement for a car" ??

In my opinion the average pay for a graduate electrical engineer at present in Ireland is far more than €18k. Having made a few enquiries I would guess that the average starting off salary is in the region of €22-25k.

Would you do your job for €9 per hour?

No.
Even if I wanted to I simply could not afford to.

As a student as part of work experience I would have done it for free just for the opportunity to learn and to get my foot in the door.

djpbarry

2011 wrote: »

So are you suggesting that your earlier statement "€9 per hour is plenty for a single person with no dependents" should read "€9 per hour is plenty for a single person with no dependents once there is no requirement for a car" ??

I guess I am, yes. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable statement, because I’ve never seen a job paying just above minimum wage that entails a good deal of travelling.

2011 wrote: »

In my opinion the average pay for a graduate electrical engineer at present in Ireland is far more than €18k. Having made a few enquiries I would guess that the average starting off salary is in the region of €22-25k.

Yeah, I would say that’s a reasonable estimate.

2011 wrote: »

No.
Even if I wanted to I simply could not afford to.

Of course you wouldn’t. Nobody would. Well, nobody with an ounce of cop on, anyway. If an employer wants a mobile graduate engineer, they’re going to have to include a travel allowance and/or a company car in the pay package.

Funkyman

Hey all,

Thanks for all the replies to this thread. I took the job anyway to get some experience. I was told on the first day that my salary would rise depending on how I get on. I will be back in to negiotiate a better deal at the end of the month.