Petrol or Diesel

vader65

I am looking about getting a new car and I would like to know the pros and cons for petrol and diesel?

Stallingrad

You'll need to supply a bit more info to get a meaningful response.

How many miles do you do a year, urban or rural, budget, what's the car used for?

vader65

probably no more than 10,000 miles per year. used for travelling to and from work, nothing much else. both urban and rural.

Katunga

You don't need a diesel, would end up costing you more having a diesel with that mileage more than lightly.

Stallingrad

Sounds like petrol to me. What kind of cars have you been looking at?

vader65

a seat leon or a vauxhall astra.. no older than 2006

Stallingrad

Definitely petrol then, you'll potentially inherit a bag of problems with a diesel of that age.

vader65

really? i wont be getting one with big miles... no more than 60,000. i always thought diesels had the better engine?

Bpmull

vader65 wrote: »

really? i wont be getting one with big miles... no more than 60,000. i always thought diesels had the better engine?

I personally prefere diesels and they are way better on fuel. There is no 2006 petrol car that will do anywhere near the mpg of a diesel. I have a 1.3cdti Astra diesel and have no complaints. Although if you can get a 1.7cdti it's a bit more powerful. 10,000 miles is not a lot of mileage for a diesel. But if you would prefer a diesel go for one. With a 2006 diesel you shouldnt have any dpf or dmf problems. And the Astras use a Bosch fuel system so generally give no injector problems.

Max Power1

vader65 wrote: »

really? i wont be getting one with big miles... no more than 60,000. i always thought diesels had the better engine?

Google DPF regeneration fault and come back to us :P

Bpmull

Max Power1 wrote: »

Google DPF regeneration fault and come back to us :P

Since 2004 my parents and I have had 12 diesel cars and jeeps all diesel and never had any problems with any of them whatsoever. What is everyones obsession with dpf. It's like if you buy a diesel the dpf will automatically go thats not the case. Most diesels are very reliable as you can see from above. Dpf is just a problem exaggerated by petrol heads so they can justify not buying diesels. If you want a diesel op buy one.

Max Power1

Bpmull wrote: »

Since 2004 my parents and I have had 12 diesel cars and jeeps all diesel and never had any problems with any of them whatsoever. What is everyones obsession with dpf. It's like if you buy a diesel the dpf will automatically go thats not the case. Most diesels are very reliable as you can see from above. Dpf is just a problem exaggerated by petrol heads so they can justify not buying diesels. If you want a diesel op buy one.

I drive a DIESEL golf lol. Thankfully DPF-less

Try driving a diesel for only short trips then you will understand why DPF is such a problem.
Theres even a place I pass on the naas road daily that specialises in, yup you guessed it, DPF replacements. why would someone specialise in replacing something that didnt cause problems?

MuppetCheck

Bpmull wrote: »

Since 2004 my parents and I have had 12 diesel cars and jeeps all diesel and never had any problems with any of them whatsoever. What is everyones obsession with dpf. It's like if you buy a diesel the dpf will automatically go thats not the case. Most diesels are very reliable as you can see from above. Dpf is just a problem exaggerated by petrol heads so they can justify not buying diesels. If you want a diesel op buy one.

No it's not an exaggerated problem. It's a ticking time bomb if the proper precautions are not adhered to. Some manufacturers are less likely to suffer the issues compared to others.

They will most likely give issues on all cars eventually (could be many many years if used on the motorway though) but town driving will clog them up over time.

Atomic Pineapple

Bpmull wrote: »

Since 2004 my parents and I have had 12 diesel cars and jeeps all diesel and never had any problems with any of them whatsoever. What is everyones obsession with dpf. It's like if you buy a diesel the dpf will automatically go thats not the case. Most diesels are very reliable as you can see from above. Dpf is just a problem exaggerated by petrol heads so they can justify not buying diesels. If you want a diesel op buy one.

Did you change car every year?

Bpmull

draffodx wrote: »

Did you change car every year?

I know it looks like that. But my mum and dad have to cars and since I passed my test recently I have a car. Generally we change our main once every 3 years but it depends really. Me and my dad are big into cars so always changing something. But some of them had well over 100k miles and had no dpf or any problems with them.

Bpmull

Max Power1 wrote: »

I drive a DIESEL golf lol. Thankfully DPF-less

Try driving a diesel for only short trips then you will understand why DPF is such a problem.
Theres even a place I pass on the naas road daily that specialises in, yup you guessed it, DPF replacements. why would someone specialise in replacing something that didnt cause problems?

Once you bring the car for a spin down the motorway for 15 minutes every week you won't have any problems as the dpf is getting a chance to get hot. At the end of the day from another thread it's 400 euro to get the dpf sorted if something goes wrong hadly the end of the world now.

MuppetCheck

That's not for a new dpf, that's most likely for a refurbished unit. I wouldn't call that sorted and they can be many multiples of that. Although I suspect prices will drop eventually on them once they become more common failures.

If your cars were hitting 100k in 3 years its highly unlikely that a problem would be encountered.

Bpmull

MuppetCheck wrote: »

That's not for a new dpf, that's most likely for a refurbished unit. I wouldn't call that sorted and they can be many multiples of that. Although I suspect prices will drop eventually on them once they become more common failures.

If your cars were hitting 100k in 3 years its highly unlikely that a problem would be encountered.

I know what you mean but surely if the op was to drive the car up the motorway once a week or so it would greatly help the situation. You are right if he She only drives in town full stop then the petrol is better. But is it was more mixed and he/she did drive a bit on the motorway it would help the dpf a good bit.

bazz26

Bpmull wrote: »

Since 2004 my parents and I have had 12 diesel cars and jeeps all diesel and never had any problems with any of them whatsoever. What is everyones obsession with dpf. It's like if you buy a diesel the dpf will automatically go thats not the case. Most diesels are very reliable as you can see from above. Dpf is just a problem exaggerated by petrol heads so they can justify not buying diesels. If you want a diesel op buy one.

The DPF had to be replaced on my previous car at 80k miles, cost me the bones of €1k and it was a 2006 reg. Don't talk down the issue just because you have no personal experiece of it. Being honest, for someone who is only posting here since May you show a degree of disrespect to regulars, some of whom have alot more knowledge and experience in such matters than you think.

Anyway back on topic. The whole idea of buying and running a diesel car is that it pays for itself through the increased mpg the more miles you drive over a similar petrol car. It is very hard to see how only doing 10k miles per year is going to justify the premium a diesel car costs to buy over a similar petrol car. If the idea is to save money then see the bigger picture and do the maths. There is no better time than now to buy a petrol car, they are dirt cheap because all the sheep want is diesels so that they can convince themeselves that they saved 10c per litre at the pump.

Bpmull

bazz26 wrote: »

The DPF had to be replaced on my previous car at 80k miles, cost me the bones of €1k and it was a 2006 reg. Don't talk down the issue just because you have no personal experiece of it. Being honest, for someone who is only posting here since May you show a degree of disrespect to regulars, some of whom have alot more knowledge and experience in such matters than you think.

Anyway back on topic. The whole idea of buying and running a diesel car is that it pays for itself through the increased mpg the more miles you drive over a similar petrol car. It is very hard to see how only doing 10k miles per year is going to justify the premium a diesel car costs to buy over a similar petrol car. If the idea is to save money then see the bigger picture and do the maths. There is no better time than now to buy a petrol car, they are dirt cheap because all the sheep want is diesels so that they can convince themeselves that they saved 10c per litre at the pump.

I certainly didn't mean to be disrespectful to anyone here i was only just wondering do dpf still cause trouble if you drive the car on the motorways the odd time or will dpf's just cause trouble regardless of how you drive them. sorry again if i game across disrespectful was only just tring to learn is there a solution to the problem of dpf.

bazz26

Bpmull wrote: »

I certainly didn't mean to be disrespectful to anyone here i was only just wondering do dpf still cause trouble if you drive the car on the motorways the odd time or will dpf's just cause trouble regardless of how you drive them. sorry again if i game across disrespectful was only just bring to learn is there a solution to the problem of dpf.

That doesn't really work every time though, eventually from constant short trips the entire DPF system gets blocked up until the ECU cannot force a regeneration of the DPF anymore.

One of the regulars over on the BMW forum has just started up a service of cleaning/removing DPFs as there is enough demand for it. It boils down to people buying diesels and not using them for their intended purpose.

Bpmull

bazz26 wrote: »

That doesn't really work every time though, eventually from constant short trips the entire DPF system gets blocked up until the ECU cannot force a regeneration of the DPF anymore.

One of the regulars over on the BMW forum has just started up a service of cleaning/removing DPFs as there is enough demand for it. It boils down to people buying diesels and not using them for their intended purpose.

i never released it was such a big problem. as you said if dpf cleaning and removal services set up there is clearly demand for them. its a pity really the whole dpf problem as it gives diesels a bad name and eventually causes them to become unreliable as the dpf clocks. fortunately we have not had dpf problems yet but currently owning 2 octavias i suppose unfortunately its only a matter of time specially when theres over 100k miles on one. so really then for he op they would be as well to stick to petrol as they only do 10k miles a year. I'm sure you will find many good deals on petrol cars at the moment. not bring to railroad the thread but if the dpf clocks which is the best way to fix the problem cleaning or completely removing and chipping the car.

Bpmull

Bpmull wrote: »

Since 2004 my parents and I have had 12 diesel cars and jeeps all diesel and never had any problems with any of them whatsoever. What is everyones obsession with dpf. It's like if you buy a diesel the dpf will automatically go thats not the case. Most diesels are very reliable as you can see from above. Dpf is just a problem exaggerated by petrol heads so they can justify not buying diesels. If you want a diesel op buy one.

Bpmull wrote: »

I know it looks like that. But my mum and dad have to cars and since I passed my test recently I have a car. Generally we change our main once every 3 years but it depends really. Me and my dad are big into cars so always changing something. But some of them had well over 100k miles and had no dpf or any problems with them.

How many of the 12 cars had a dpf?

Bpmull

RoverJames wrote: »

How many of the 12 cars had a dpf?

heres a quick list of them as I'm not sure which actually had dpf's: 2000 zafira,2005 vectra,307 2004 2.0, 2007 santa fe, 2010 ix-35, 2011 octavia, 2005 octavia, 2008 1.3 astra, 2007 megane 1.5dci, 2004 megane 1.5dci, 2005 santa fe, 2006 toyota corolla, 2006 navara.
I know the astra and octavias have dpf's not sure about the rest tbh. sorry for the list but don't know what else there has dpf's is the honest answer to your question.

bazz26

Don't think the Astra 1.3 had a DPF fitted until 2010. The 307, ix35 and 2011 Octavia are probably the only ones I can think of with the a DPF on that list.

Bpmull

bazz26 wrote: »

Don't think the Astra 1.3 had a DPF fitted until 2010. The 307, ix35 and 2011 Octavia are probably the only ones I can think of with the a DPF on that list.

thats good to know as the astras a bit underpowered but at least it doesn't have a dpf and is quite a reliable car. did the 2005 facelift octavia not have a dpf.

bazz26

Bpmull wrote: »

thats good to know as the astras a bit underpowered but at least it doesn't have a dpf and is quite a reliable car. did the 2005 facelift octavia not have a dpf.

Not the 1.9 TDi. Some of the VW 2.0 TDi PD engines back then had one fitted.

bazz26

It's alot cheaper these days to get a DPF removed and deleted from the car's ECU. My concern with this though is that the NCT might start introducing tests to measure DPF performance sooner than later now that they are mandetory on new diesel cars since 2011.

Bpmull

bazz26 wrote: »

Not the 1.9 TDi. Some of the VW 2.0 TDi PD engines back then had one fitted.

its a 1.9tdi i was wondering why there was no problems with that one and it has 100k miles on. if the dpf clogs on the 2011 does cleaning help or just prolong the problem

kaku777

I'd go diesel every time if u were buying an 08.

Diesel costs less.
Diesels do more mpg.
Will hold onto their value much better.
Diesels cost less to tax.

A lot of people on here are obsessed with petrol and exaggerate any issues with diesel.

coolisin

In fairness if the OP came in here looking saying he was doing 25km a year we'd say diesel.
He's not doing the driving for a diesel.
So with little miles a petrol is better suited.

People are obsesses about petrol in here as there has being a lot of diesel bandwagon jumpers lately, remember when diesel was expensive to tax?

Diesels are really good when used correctly, dpf issues are not exaggerated by any means. I've met people at random in petrol stations going crazy about the problems there new diesels are causing them.
And I know 2 people who have had trouble while doing decent driving.

Still owning a car is not always about the resale value either.

Max Power1

kaku777 wrote: »

I'd go diesel every time if u were buying an 08.

Diesel costs less.
Diesels do more mpg.
Will hold onto their value much better.
Diesels cost less to tax.

A lot of people on here are obsessed with petrol and exaggerate any issues with diesel.

You forgot one thing
Mostly, diesels cost a lot more to buy than petrols.

You'd go diesel everytime? What if you were only doing 10kkm pa? You sound like the typical sheeple/bar stool mechanics that think they know everything.

Im not one to pick petrol over diesel for no reason or vice versa, I have a diesel because I do 300-400+ miles per week, the vast majority of which is motorway

kaku777

Max Power1 wrote: »

You forgot one thing
Mostly, diesels cost a lot more to buy than petrols.

You'd go diesel everytime? What if you were only doing 10kkm pa? You sound like the typical sheeple/bar stool mechanics that think they know everything.

True a diesel will cost more but it will also sell for more. It will lose less of its value then a petrol will. On top of this the diesel will last much longer as Diesels are capable of much more miles in their lifetime.
You sound like a sheeple.

Yes, for someone who is spending around 5k and getting an older car which they intend to run into the ground, go with petrol.

But if they are getting an 08 or newer and spending over 10k go with Diesel everytime. You have to be able to look past initial cost and look at your purchase as an investment for future savings.

MuppetCheck

kaku777 wrote: »

True a diesel will cost more but it will also sell for more. It will lose less of its value then a petrol will. On top of this the diesel will last much longer as Diesels are capable of much more miles in their lifetime.
You sound like a sheeple.

Yes, for someone who is spending around 5k and getting an older car which they intend to run into the ground, go with petrol.

But if they are getting an 08 or newer and spending over 10k go with Diesel everytime. You have to be able to look past initial cost and look at your purchase as an investment for future savings.

You're really not getting this.

Small mileage in a modern diesel = Potential for big bills

Those bills, coupled with the higher purchase price can mean a higher overall cost of ownership than the equivalent petrol.

Max Power1

kaku777 wrote: »

True a diesel will cost more but it will also sell for more. It will lose less of its value then a petrol will. On top of this the diesel will last much longer as Diesels are capable of much more miles in their lifetime.
You sound like a sheeple.

Yes, for someone who is spending around 5k and getting an older car which they intend to run into the ground, go with petrol.

But if they are getting an 08 or newer and spending over 10k go with Diesel everytime. You have to be able to look past initial cost and look at your purchase as an investment for future savings.

I sound like a sheeple, for having an opinion that differs from the main herd? Epic logic fail there bud.

Looking at a car purchase as an investment is always bad. You look to purchase what you want and then mitigate future losses, but never as an investment. No cars(bar classics) appreciate so it cant be an investment.

Btw, look here in 3-4 years time when the first batches of the emissions based small diesel city cars will be 8 years old. I guarantee there will be so many issues that just dont exist with using petrol cars for short trips only (excepting of course the new turbo petrols from the VAG stable)

Its simple really. Despite the offer of saving 5-10cpl at the pumps, it just takes one turbo failure, one failed DMF or DPF and then you are worse off with a diesel.

kaku777

Max Power1 wrote: »

I sound like a sheeple, for having an opinion that differs from the main herd? Epic logic fail there bud.

Looking at a car purchase as an investment is always bad. You look to purchase what you want and then mitigate future losses, but never as an investment. No cars(bar classics) appreciate so it cant be an investment.

You sound like a sheeple because you spout out the same illogical dribble that others on here do.

I didnt say the car was an investment, as in you are going to sell if for more then you bought it for.
I said its an investment for savings as in you are going to be better off financially buying a diesel in the long run.

You can babble on about failures all you want. All it takes is to take care of the car and you will most likely have no issues. Of course there is always risks but the same applies for petrol.

Ardent

kaku777 wrote: »

On top of this the diesel will last much longer as Diesels are capable of much more miles in their lifetime.

WTF?

Max Power1

kaku777 wrote: »

You sound like a sheeple because you spout out the same illogical dribble that others on here do.

I didnt say the car was an investment, as in you are going to sell if for more then you bought it for.
I said its an investment for savings as in you are going to be better off financially buying a diesel in the long run.

You can babble on about failures all you want. All it takes is to take care of the car and you will most likely have no issues. Of course there is always risks but the same applies for petrol.

But.. i've...already...explained...the...logic?

You quite clearly said

look at your purchase as an investment

And finally,

take care of the car and you will most likely have no issues

So if I drive a diesel post 08 car with a DPF fitted, only 8k per year, only short trips. I will have no issues? Now whos spouting illogical dribble!

kaku777

Max Power1 wrote: »

You quite clearly said

Try looking at the quote in my post again. This time look harder and really try stretching that brain of yours.:)

kaku777

Max Power1 wrote: »

So if I drive a diesel post 08 car with a DPF fitted, only 8k per year, only short trips. I will have no issues? Now whos spouting illogical dribble!

Well if you only took the car on short trips you wouldnt be looking after it, would you?
Give the car its weekly run and you will most likely be fine.

But, as I said, there is always risks involved as with any car.

Marty McFly

kaku777 wrote: »

Well if you only took the car on short trips you wouldnt be looking after it, would you?
Give the car its weekly run and you will most likely be fine.

But, as I said, there is always risks involved as with any car.

Therein lies the problem majority of people buying especially small diesel engine cars arent giving them a weekly run there being used for constant shorts runs, also if that is the case why not save yourself the hassle of having to give your a car "its weekly run" and buy petrol instead, save yeh the hassle of running up uneccessary mileage and wear on the engine its not like the majority of people buying small diesel engines enjoy driving or taking there car out for a spin just for the fun of it.

coolisin

I genuinely do not believe anyone here is spouting illogical dribble.

Voicing opinions maybe, discussing what car would probably suit the OP better.

You attack the sheep mentality of the motors forum, where alot of people would be petrol heads first.
Nobody is actually disagreeing with your logic but the OP hasn't said what type of driving he is doing.
We all are assuming shorter trips with low mileage.

Which do not suit the newer diesel engine at all. If its motorway blasts for 100km once a week could work, but he is paying a premium to do small miles.

Max Power1

kaku777 wrote: »

Try looking at the quote in my post again. This time look harder and really try stretching that brain of yours.:)

You see. I dont need to resort to such condescending BS.

kaku777 wrote: »

Well if you only took the car on short trips you wouldnt be looking after it, would you?
Give the car its weekly run and you will most likely be fine.

But, as I said, there is are always risks involved as with any car.

I disagree. Driving only short trips and following the service schedule is adequate (indeed better than most cars get here) care. Most cars would be fine with this. But modern diesels wont.

Finally, to use your line, maybe you should stretch that brain of yours. I corrected your last sentence.

pedro7

Most of this has prob been said already, so sorry if I'm repeating stuff.

+ Diesels will do better MPG on average.
+ On long trips diesels are more reliable.
- A large diesel will do LESS MPG then a mid size petrol in traffic and urban areas.
- Diesels are more expensive to maintain.
- There are more potential problems with a diesel engine.

The big DPF thing people keep on about is a filter on the exhaust system used to filter out small solid particles in the fumes. Over the course of a journey (about 30mins) these are gasified (burnt off) by the increasing exhaust temperature thus cleaning the DPF.

The reason people have problems with them in some cases is down to 3 things essentially.
Short Journeys
Over short journeys the particulate matter builds up and cant be burned off because the exhaust doesn't get hot enough.

Using the wrong type of Oil in the engine.
Cars fitted with DPFs need low ash or low S.A.P's oil in them. Diesels burn minute amounts of engine oil during the combustion process. If you fire the cheaper Oils into the car which are not low ash then they produce more particles and block the DPF quicker.

Poor maintenance.
Leaving oil in too long will cause the same problems as using the wrong oil.

Sorry if I'm going on.

To sum up, if your doing mostly short journeys (less than 30mins or all sitting in traffic), I would buy a Petrol car 100% of the time.
You can get some really nice Petrol Cars now for very low money compared to there diesel counter parts. Plus if its around the 05 06 mark you are looking, the tax might be a little cheaper on the petrol model.
AND petrol cars are generally a more fun drive!

S28382

I drive just over 576kms every week in a 1.9 petrol...........does that mean im a fool and i should be driving diesel?

dgt

S28382 wrote: »

I drive just over 576kms every week in a 1.9 petrol...........does that mean im a fool and i should be driving diesel?

I used to average about 600kms a week (or close to 400 miles) in my old petrol vehicle... A few times it would be double that figure :eek: So naturally in my current scenario of about 100km a week and town driving mostly I use a.... 1.9 diesel car :pac::pac::pac:

No cat, no dpf, no dmf, no commonrail. No nonsense like that

1.9 petrol you say... What is it?

kaku777

Max Power1 wrote: »

You see. I dont need to resort to such condescending BS.

No you just resort to misquoting me.
Well done:).

kaku777

kaku777 wrote: »

No you just resort to misquoting me.
Well done:).

Where was that now?

corblimey

I've been driving a diesel for the last 2 years which I bought just cos I liked the look of it. According to my maths, I'm saving around a grand a year (about 400 in tax and 600 in petrol) by driving the diesel (and this is based on the price of petrol the month before I bought it vs the price of diesel the month after, so the savings may be more now). Now I've not factored in insurance or repair bills, so maybe the savings come down a bit, but that's not insignificant to me. If I have to pay say 3 grand extra for a diesel, by the time the fourth year comes around, I'm quids in!

PS, for the car I bought, there doesn't seem to any real petrol equivalent, so my savings are purely theoretical at teh moment, anyway.

kaku777

corblimey wrote: »

I've been driving a diesel for the last 2 years which I bought just cos I liked the look of it. According to my maths, I'm saving around a grand a year (about 400 in tax and 600 in petrol) by driving the diesel (and this is based on the price of petrol the month before I bought it vs the price of diesel the month after, so the savings may be more now). Now I've not factored in insurance or repair bills, so maybe the savings come down a bit, but that's not insignificant to me. If I have to pay say 3 grand extra for a diesel, by the time the fourth year comes around, I'm quids in!

PS, for the car I bought, there doesn't seem to any real petrol equivalent, so my savings are purely theoretical at teh moment, anyway.

Careful now, soon your Diesel will fall apart and you will have to spend a billion billion Euro to get it fixed.:D

Thats what happens to all diesels in the end you know.

Max Power1

kaku777 wrote: »

No you just resort to misquoting me.
Well done:).

Cant misquote if I quoted your whole post of condescending BS tbh.

Misquote means/implies to take a quote out of context. I could not do this as there was no context removed as the quote was requoted in its entirety.