This weather we're having and RWD

corblimey

So (in a sadly ignored thread) I made mention that my next car will almost surely be 3 series BMW, but today at work, I read and heard some startling stories about handing of RWD cars on wet roads and how I will end up in a ditch or sideways on a roundabout. Since it's been raining non stop since March, maybe a RWD is suicide?

Now, I suspect most of this is hyperbole and the main issue is the loose nut behind the wheel, but is driving a RWD that much of a difference to FWD? I've only been driving 6 years, and I think my previous roster of cars must have all been FWD (Punto, Ibiza, Focus, Accent), so I'm not sure of going down the RWD route at all.

I was planning on getting a 320, but perhaps until I'm more used to RWD, I should go lower, a 318 or even a 316? Too much power and I'll be all over the shop? Can someone tend my worried brow? Or should I stop being such a pussy and go for it?

Alanstrainor

Traction control will keep you in check. I've had no trouble since getting my 325ci. And I moved from a Polo to it, so this is my first rear wheel drive. I wouldn't worry, and go for the one you want, not point selling yourself short out of fear.

dgt

corblimey wrote: »

Or should I stop being such a pussy and go for it?

That's what I'd say. Just be a bit more conscious that's all. How did people survive 30 odd years ago when the majority of cars were RWD? (Underpowered slower bla bla bla don't want to hear it)

S28382

I have a 3 series and iv never spun out yet....maybe im not driving fast enough:D........

ShadowHearth

An idiot behind the wheel will kill himself in fwd 1.2 punto.
Unless you are looking for m3 335, I would not even worry about it being rwd.
With such question OP I can imagine you are not a big petrol head and don't knowing about cars ( no offence ), you won't even feel the difference between rwd and fwd on normal driving. I presume you be looking at some 318, 320d anyway.

goz83

A 320D was trying to undertake me, which would have cut me off approaching a roundabout in swords. The story ended quickly with the sound of the mivec and the bmw spinning out on the damp round-about. After that, there were no further attempts to under, or overtake for that matter. Just go easy on any turns, esp in the wet weather and you'll be grand. Silly driving, no matter what wheels are powered will likely leave you in a ditch, or sideways on the road.

Light Switch

FFS don't drive like a knob, Put decent tyres on it and you'll be okay.

listermint

My last two have been RWD, currently drive an M3 and ive never slid out.

Silly talk so it is. silly.

Tommyboy40

I've got an e46 GTR with e90 mods (no maybe i don't) I actually have a 318 and a Merc SL500, both rwd. Never buy a 4pot bmw if you can avoid it, the 320 will be as economical. I ease off on the SL in turns and roundabouts but have no problems with the low powered bmw

alanmc

As long as you have good rubber under you, it should be fine. When I first bought my 350Z, it had budget Accelera tyres on it. Grand in the dry, but there was noticeable slippage on roundabouts in the wet.

Definitely go for RWD, but make sure you don't skimp on tyres.

Nissan doctor

Driving a RWD in the wet will only be an issue to those who have no idea how their control inputs effect the car and those who buy cheap plastic tyres IMO.

I couldn't agree with relying on traction control though. You'll never learn proper car control or driving techniques if you just rely on the computer to fix everything for you.

Victor Meldrew

There are evil FWD cars out there too. Opel Vectras for one. Terminal understeer.

Buy what you can afford to run and insure. Don't go for a gutless motor and ruin the entire point of having enough power to make the car what the engineers want it to be.

If you are in your late 20's or older you will be OK...

Tony D

Spend money on good tyres, drive carefully at all times and you will be fine. That goes for both fwd and rwd. I have always had fwd, but drove a '07 ///m3 recently in the lashes of rain and it did not mis-behave

listermint

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Driving a RWD in the wet will only be an issue to those who have no idea how their control inputs effect the car and those who buy cheap plastic tyres IMO.

I couldn't agree with relying on traction control though. You'll never learn proper car control or driving techniques if you just rely on the computer to fix everything for you.

this

Voodoomelon

As mentioned quality tyres are the main thing. You should only have to worry about RWD in the snow, unless you have a V10 and have a habit of driving on the edge most of the time.

Do not skimp on tyres.

sambucus

No question rwd is a different beast altogether. Get that 320 I say. But i think its a good idea to familiarise yourself on how it behaves when it does let go. I was lucky growing up on rwd and having places off public roads to go for sliding around etc. think those Scandinavians have it sorted with skid pan training a compulsory part of getting the licence.

RedorDead

In snow and ice OP and without proper winter tyres RWD cars can become much more difficult to drive than FWD cars. In other conditions unless you are dicking about, you should be fine.

2011abc

Voice of inexperience/reason here!?DONT DO IT!A rear wheel drive on wet irish roads is a nightmare .The rear wheel drive cars Ive owned/driven long term are -MX5,Suzuki Cappuccino,Merc 190 2.5-16v 'Cosworth' while Ive also ran 1990 BMW M5, Mk1 MR2 and MR2 Turbo ,2x Nissan 200sx (had the most horrific near death experience fish tailling through a wet roundabout in that!)and briefly Lexus Couope twin turbo and 300bhp chipped RWD Sierra Cosworth(last two were like driving in the wet when it was DRY!) .All of these cars felt as if they would kill me driven at over 60-70% in the rain / wet and only the Cappuccino and M5 felt consistently safe at over 40-50% in the rain .I felt as if I would make faster progress in almost ANY front wheel drive car in the rain .Words can not describe the embarassment at being passed while driving a Mercedes Cosworth by a Mercedes Sprinter VAN(hey those yokes are fairly pokey!)
If you make a mistake in a RWD and back off the power -as every fibre in your body will tell you to -you will worsen the situation and end up in a ditch .
Oh , actually the post 1999 BMW 3 series feel way safer than all the other cars mentioned above.
Buyer beware !The experience is certainly stimulating when close to the edge (and requires the utmost skill and delicacy of the right foot)but go over it and you will be sorry .

unkel

And even in snow if you don't have winter tyres, a few sandbags in the boot and problem sorted

Nissan doctor

2011abc wrote: »

Voice of inexperience/reason here!?DONT DO IT!A rear wheel drive on wet irish roads is a nightmare .The rear wheel drive cars Ive owned/driven long term are -MX5,Suzuki Cappuccino,Merc 190 2.5-16v 'Cosworth' while Ive also ran 1990 BMW M5, Mk1 MR2 and MR2 Turbo ,2x Nissan 200sx (had the most horrific near death experience fish tailling through a wet roundabout in that!)and briefly Lexus Couope twin turbo and 300bhp chipped RWD Sierra Cosworth(last two were like driving in the wet when it was DRY!) .All of these cars felt as if they would kill me driven at over 60-70% in the rain / wet and only the Cappuccino and M5 felt consistently safe at over 40-50% in the rain .I felt as if I would make faster progress in almost ANY front wheel drive car in the rain .Words can not describe the embarassment at being passed while driving a Mercedes Cosworth by a Mercedes Sprinter VAN(hey those yokes are fairly pokey!)
If you make a mistake in a RWD and back off the power -as every fibre in your body will tell you to -you will worsen the situation and end up in a ditch .
Oh , actually the post 1999 BMW 3 series feel way safer than all the other cars mentioned above.
Buyer beware !The experience is certainly stimulating when close to the edge (and requires the utmost skill and delicacy of the right foot)but go over it and you will be sorry .

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the organic relay behind the steering wheel was the problem, not the cars.

I've owned 5 Skylines and they don't slide unless you cause them too.

sunnysoutheast

corblimey wrote: »

So (in a sadly ignored thread) I made mention that my next car will almost surely be 3 series BMW, but today at work, I read and heard some startling stories about handing of RWD cars on wet roads and how I will end up in a ditch or sideways on a roundabout. Since it's been raining non stop since March, maybe a RWD is suicide?

Now, I suspect most of this is hyperbole and the main issue is the loose nut behind the wheel, but is driving a RWD that much of a difference to FWD? I've only been driving 6 years, and I think my previous roster of cars must have all been FWD (Punto, Ibiza, Focus, Accent), so I'm not sure of going down the RWD route at all.

I was planning on getting a 320, but perhaps until I'm more used to RWD, I should go lower, a 318 or even a 316? Too much power and I'll be all over the shop? Can someone tend my worried brow? Or should I stop being such a pussy and go for it?

Yes it's different but, as others have said, not insurmountable. Good tyres rotated as necessary and a smooth driving style will see you through. I actually prefer the balance of RWD and will be replacing an A4 with a 320d soon.

Maybe budget for a set of cold-weather tyres (on steel rims) from November-March but the reality is you will probably struggle in snow with RWD anyway.

corktina

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Driving a RWD in the wet will only be an issue to those who have no idea how their control inputs effect the car and those who buy cheap plastic tyres IMO.

I couldn't agree with relying on traction control though. You'll never learn proper car control or driving techniques if you just rely on the computer to fix everything for you.

Spot on ND. I've had dozens of RWD cars over the years, can only remember spinning one, A Morris Marina and that was only because I was acting the bollix in a hire car!

For Forks Sake

Haven't spun a RWD car yet. Only car I've ever spun was a wee 1.1 Fiesta, still have no idea to this day how I managed that.

Must.Drive.Faster.

Nissan doctor

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Haven't spun a RWD car yet. Only car I've ever spun was a wee 1.1 Fiesta, still have no idea to this day how I managed that.

Must.Drive.Faster.

3 words....Lift Off Oversteer.:)

alanmc

Nissan doctor wrote: »

3 words....Lift Off Oversteer.:)

Yup. Only car I ever spun was a FWD with a heavy-ish V6 up the front. Was showing off and went into a roundabout a little too hot. It started to understeer .... I forgot everything .... came off the throttle completely. The weight transferred to the front and I ended up nose pointing in to the centre of roundabout.

To be fair though, I had a play with that car after that and it oversteered very easy on lift-off. I blamed the heavy V6 up front .... and the clot behind the wheel to a lesser extent.:o

dudara

Never had an issue with the 2 RWD drive cars I've had - even in the bad snow. Rain is not an issue when you have good tyres and you don't drive like a kn*b.

conzy

Can you imagine the amount of dead yuppies and business men there would be in this country if BMWs just randomly spun out in the wet? :pac:

You need to be taking the mickey / driving too hard for the conditions to spin one.

I had more dicey moments in a Vectra in the wet than the 325, it had 4 random ditch finders on it...

Idbatterim

Op in the snow yes they are worse than FWD due to less traction. otherwise no, just have decent tyres on it and dont do anything stupid, particularly in the wet!

Timmaay

2011abc wrote: »

Words can not describe the embarassment at being passed while driving a Mercedes Cosworth by a Mercedes Sprinter VAN(hey those yokes are fairly pokey!)

The Sprinter van is RWD also :P!! And they are shocking in bad weather, and totally undrivable in the snow, I know this after I had to leave one on the side of the road 2 years ago for afew days during the big freeze ha! 99% of the time perfectly fine in fairless, just don't drive beyond your or its limit. And fairly pokey in my view is 150+bhp in a car, certainly not a big heavy Sprinter with 100 or so bhp!

2011abc

conzy wrote: »

Can you imagine the amount of dead yuppies and business men there would be in this country if BMWs just randomly spun out in the wet? :pac:

Id say the likes of 325 coupes from early 80s to mid 90s claimed quite a few !!!

MetzgerMeister

You're over-thinking the situation OP. My last car was 4WD and the 2 before that were RWD. My current car (335i which isn't as bad as ShadowHearth thinks :P) is good in the wet. The tyres on it have seen better days but they're a long way from being bald. All you have to do is adjust your driving to the conditions as with any car.

It's the apes who drive erratically all day very day who make sh!t of RWD cars. Just be sensible when it comes to driving and make sure to always have a proper tyre on each corner of the car.

corblimey

unkel wrote: »

And even in snow if you don't have winter tyres, a few sandbags in the boot and problem sorted

Does this actually work?

jsd1004

Light Switch wrote: »

FFS don't drive like a knob, Put decent tyres on it and you'll be okay.

If you are driving to the limits of the tyres (any tyres) you are going to have an interesting front of car. Drive slowly and gradually increase your speed as your ability increases. Tyres do not make a good driver, Experience and knowledge of your car and its tyres will help you. It is great fun to drive an underpowered car at near its limit than drive a fast car within its limits. Tyres are only one factor. I have numerous cars including an exotic on semi slicks and an alfa with **** tyres that is interesting to drive in the wet, Saying that, the Lotus is **** with the semi slicks as well but only because they are designed for hot, dry, track use. My **** tyres on the alfa are cheap..good fun if you know their limits. Dont blame your car or tyres..

Bohrio

listermint wrote: »

My last two have been RWD, currently drive an M3 and ive never slid out.

Silly talk so it is. silly.

lol... try saying that after driving a e36 m3... that car in wet is an absolute joke... will lose traction even on a straight line!

E46 were a different thing though... traction control takes care of everything, just make sure it is on

Bohrio

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

You're over-thinking the situation OP. My last car was 4WD and the 2 before that were RWD. My current car (335i which isn't as bad as ShadowHearth thinks :P) is good in the wet. The tyres on it have seen better days but they're a long way from being bald. All you have to do is adjust your driving to the conditions as with any car.

It's the apes who drive erratically all day very day who make sh!t of RWD cars. Just be sensible when it comes to driving and make sure to always have a proper tyre on each corner of the car.

a 335i? nice... can't wait for the next meeting.. I love that car

dr.fuzzenstein

RWD cars I have driven:
1986 BMW 318i, 2 VW T3 transporters, 2 W123 200 Mercs, 1973 MKIII Cortina, MX5 and the odd hire Smart. And the odd Beetle here and there.
Granted, none of the above where insanely powerful, but nevertheless I never had a single problem with them in the wet. The BMW was scary in the snow though, it would fish-tail on a straight road if you lifted off the throttle.
Good tires and common sense are key here.
Go for it!

edit:
On the oversteer: It is perfectly possible to get it from a FWD car. Had a Focus, if you drove it round the bend/roundabout till it started to understeer and then lifted off the throttle you could get it into a very controllable drift. Great fun.

sambucus

1 1963 hillman 1 Chrysler valiant1970 1 leyland marina 5 Peugeot 404 3 ford falcon (1967,70,83)1 mk2 cortina gte 1 318is....
Never bent any of them......
Oh the work transit van was grand in the snow and ice 2006/7 in Kildare

MetzgerMeister

Bohrio wrote: »

a 335i? nice... can't wait for the next meeting.. I love that car

No no, Mazda6 2.2 diesel

gollywog

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Bohrio wrote: »

a 335i? nice... can't wait for the next meeting.. I love that car

No no, Mazda6 2.2 diesel

Strangest lookin Mazda diesel I've ever seen!

unkel

corblimey wrote: »

Does this actually work?

Yes it does!

The main reason FWD cars are better in the snow is because the weight of the engine over the driven wheels gives them more grip

Put the equivalent weight of an engine in the boot of a RWD car and grip is improved dramatically. You'll need to add 200+KG though for maximum effect, but you'll notice considerable more grip with as little as 50KG ballast

dr.fuzzenstein

unkel wrote: »

Yes it does!

The main reason FWD cars are better in the snow is because the weight of the engine over the driven wheels gives them more grip

Put the equivalent weight of an engine in the boot of a RWD car and grip is improved dramatically. You'll need to add 200+KG though for maximum effect, but you'll notice considerable more grip with as little as 50KG ballast

Or go rear engined.

bazz26

Lol, when I saw the title of this threat I thought it was about a M5 being used for drifting around roundabouts in snow, not a 320.

HJL

I'm not suprised some people are questioning RWD cars if they only go by what they read in Irish Permanent Auto Ireland Magazine. I have last years one and on the Mercs and Lexus it lists being RWD as a 'bad point'.

It is a terrible magazine, it recommends everybody buy the smallest available diesel engine and talks about the proper sized ones being unnecessary!

I think it also listed a disadvantage of the VW Golf because of its name as its been called a Golf for so long!

OP i went from a small FWD to a mid sized RWD, 99% of the time you wont notice a difference. It's lashing rain at the moment, most likely will all week. Take one for a test drive and you'll see yourself that it wont slide out from under you in normal driving.

unkel

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Or go rear engined.

Indeed! Famous ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUnEbNgHFco

H3llR4iser

Nonsense really, unless you act like a completely clueless dummy you won't even notice that much of a difference on a normal road - as a matter of fact I know more than a few people that don't even know if their cars are FWD or RWD (which is in reality quite scary, but anyway).

Of course, if you floor it in the middle of a slippery corner you'll switch ends, but that would make you crash in the aforementioned 1.2 Punto too.

knifey_spoonie

One of the best cars ive ever driven in snow was my MR2, The car is so well balanced that in a slow 4 wheels skid its stupidly controllable. At the time i also had keys to a landcruiser with M&S tyres and honestly the MR2 felt safer, much easier to stop, but it was harder to get moving.

I think the issue with FWD v RWD is what happens when they breakaway. In FWD you car will continue to travel in a straight line, but a least you see what your about to hit, and let off the pedal a wee bit.

In RWD its going to swap ends, looks a hell of alot more dramatic and if your doing it right lots of tyre smoke, plus you cant see what your about to hit, unless you catch it on the return trip of your 360 spin

ValerieR

I can only echo what most people say here. I have driven both FWD and RWD for many years. There is a small difference in the driving when changing over but it's in no way dramatic.
The important message here I think is to have good quality tyres in good condition and also at the right pressure. I had a bit of a spin out once on a roundabout with the BMW 5 series because my tyres were not up to scratch (I had just purchased the car and new tyres were bought the following day!).
My 3 series is very sensitive to tyre pressure -it does definitely feels wrong when driving it with the wrong pressure.
In the winter, on snowy roads, handle with care, driving as if on egg shells and you'll be grand !
Best of luck.

dr.fuzzenstein

HJL wrote: »

I'm not suprised some people are questioning RWD cars if they only go by what they read in Irish Permanent Auto Ireland Magazine. I have last years one and on the Mercs and Lexus it lists being RWD as a 'bad point'.

It is a terrible magazine, it recommends everybody buy the smallest available diesel engine and talks about the proper sized ones being unnecessary!

I think it also listed a disadvantage of the VW Golf because of its name as its been called a Golf for so long!

OP i went from a small FWD to a mid sized RWD, 99% of the time you wont notice a difference. It's lashing rain at the moment, most likely will all week. Take one for a test drive and you'll see yourself that it wont slide out from under you in normal driving.

Oh dear, it sounds like that was written by someone who doesn't know anything about cars, doesn't like them and is only interested in the MPG and the tax. In that case I'd recommend the Micra diesel automatic.

Debs_Mann

As the saying goes, the only thing between the car and the road is your tyres. A good set of tyres will help you keep your RWD on the road in Corners, rounabouts. Alot of newer cars have traction control etc., but there is no point having these if your tyres are not up to it.

I always opt for good all season tyres with my RWD cars

Tea 1000

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the organic relay behind the steering wheel was the problem, not the cars.

I've owned 5 Skylines and they don't slide unless you cause them too.

True. Can you even chip a Sierra Cos turbo?

IrishZeus

Having owned and driven an S2000 with crappy tyres on it, I can safely say that good tyres make a huge difference. The difference in grip and control can be huge. Following this, I had a Lexus IS250 that would slip slightly on wet roundabouts and they have every traction system going. Again, new tyres were put on and never slipped again.

My other half has a BMW 318i with Continentals all round and its never come close to slipping out, with either myself or herself driving.

OP, do not be afraid of RWD. Get some decent tyres, drive sanely and you'll be absolutely fine.