5yr rule rears its ugly head once more !

dubdad

I feel a lot better after finding and reading a previous thread. Although i now have a couple more questions i need resolved.

I previously attended a third level institution WAY more than five years ago and attended for three years but was unable to sit the final exams and subsequently recieved no qualification.

I am in a similar situation myself, after doing my research and talking to various student finance officers at college open days i believed i was elegible for free fees under the second chance rule. So i decided to commit myself to return to college as i have been unemployed for three years and need to re train in an area i can find work.
Needless to say i have gone through the whole CAO process, secured a place in a level8 degree course. I have also gone through the whole SUSI application process, got my doc. pack sent back and am awaiting the decision on the grant. ..This is where things started to crumble a little.
I gather it will be another couple of weeks before i get a decision on the grant as it seems to be a very slow process and my doc pack only went back last week, i decided to call the college in question to find out if there was anything i needed to bring in to them on regristration day (such as the letter from SUSI stating i was elegible to progress to the next level of the process), the help me to be registered temporarily, as i assume a lot of other students awaiting the grant will be in a similar situation. Anyway the conversation with the(very nice) lady in the college admin turned to my particular circumstances whereupon i was told that as the course i previously attended was a lvl7 and i was now entering a lvl8 i would be inelegible for the free fees grant. Heartbroken.
She also told me that i could apply for a grant for the student contribution end of things if i was not getting free fees. Here I am also confused about this as i thought that the free fees and student contribution went togther.

She also stated that ultimately it was not her decision but that of SUSI.
Here i am a little confused after reading through the thread where it seemed that the decision was made by the college that dchris is hoping to attend.
This was yesterday and the lady said she would speak to her colleagues and get back to me.Nothing so far. sweating bullets as you can imagine.
I have talked to citizens advice and they seem to think i am elegible, however i didn't feel that they were 100% sure on this as it is not something they get a lot of enquiries on.
I also talked to DES who also said i was eligible under the five year rule but i only had a quick talk as the lady(v. nice, & helpfull) had a meeting and could only talk for 5mins. , but after reading the previos posts i gather that DES make the guidelines but they are not the people administering them.
I even stayed up half the night reading the white paper on the subject(Student Grant Scheme 2012) but having no legal training whatsoever i would be afraid to draw any conclusions from what i read(although what i could gather was positive)

This whole area seems to be rather gray and varies from institution to institution depending on who you talk to. Considering the rising number of matures returning to college i think that studentfinance.ie need to seiously think about making this area as crystal clear as is possible on their site considering it is meant to be the definitive source of information for prospective students.

Sorry for pouring out my thoughts in such a verbose manner, to summarise:
1. student free-fee grant : this decision is made my SUSI alone and the college complys with the decision?
2. entering a lvl8 couse after previously spending time on a lvl7, should this have any bearing on the 5yr rule?
3. the free fee element of the grant, is this independant of the student contribution element?

Any replies greatly appreciated from persons who have been through the hoops or/and people in the know

daychris76

1. student free-fee grant : this decision is made my SUSI alone and the college complys with the decision?
2. entering a lvl8 couse after previously spending time on a lvl7, should this have any bearing on the 5yr rule?
3. the free fee element of the grant, is this independant of the student contribution element?

1: Yes, SUSI makes this decision
2: My understanding is that the level 7 you did should have no bearing on your application for level 8 (i.e. you are not doing ANOTHER Level 7, rather you are progressing to level 8)
3: If you are awarded the grant you will pay NO fees of any description.

hope this helps.

Chris

paperclip2

But Dubdad you don't hold a level 7 qualification do you? You left before completion? What interpretation of the 5 year rule does the college apply?

dubdad

Not looking good paperclip2.
The college are quoting the progression rule. they still maintain that as it was a lvl7 previously and i am now level8 that i do not qualify for free tuition fees.
I also got back to DES and i got a diffrent answer this time. I spoke to one of their managers and she told me that the college is right.
It is not looking good i may have to apply to transfer to a level7 course if i can.
I may PM you later when i get a chance. The car broke down so I have a lot of bussing to do till i get it sorted. Till later, and thanks again for all the help, but like i said its not looking good at the moment. dd

paperclip2

I pm'ed you DD. I ran the info by SUSI and they clarified that free fees are available to you subject to you fulfilling the income limits and residency criteria.

I also clarified some inaccurate info on http://www.studentfinance.ie. On the Course Fees page, point 7 reads:

Tuition fees will be paid in respect of eligible students who, having attended but not completed approved courses, are returning following a break of at least five years in order to pursue approved courses at the same level in the 2010/2011 academic year.

This seems to only apply to Universities, not IOT's where you are restricted to completion of just one year in your original course in order to be eligible for fees after 5 years. But this is not clear from the info supplied on the site.

the keen edge

paperclip2 wrote: »

This seems to only apply to Universities, not IOT's where you are restricted to completion of just one year in your original course in order to be eligible for fees after 5 years. But this is not clear from the info supplied on the site.

On this point;
A cousin of mine started a course in an IT but left the course before upcoming Christmas. This was 8 years ago.

She now has started a level 8 Uni degree. I'm pretty sure she is eligible for free fees; however she doesn't seem to think that she needs to let SUSI be aware of this previous enrollment; given the sizable elapsed period of time.

Is is correct?
She's in 3rd year, and the two previous years of approved grant application to her local coco were successful, given the absent of this information.

paperclip2

the keen edge wrote: »

On this point;
A cousin of mine started a course in an IT but left the course before upcoming Christmas. This was 8 years ago.

She now has started a level 8 Uni degree. I'm pretty sure she is eligible for free fees; however she doesn't seem to think that she needs to let SUSI be aware of this previous enrollment; given the sizable elapsed period of time.

Is is correct?
She's in 3rd year, and the two previous years of approved grant application to her local coco were successful, given the absent of this information.

The past few days have been enlightening re the whole free fee/ susi fee grant situation. What free fees have said to me is that to get them for a 2nd time you need to be 5 years out of education, with no existing qualification and be re-entering a course at the same level as when you exited. However if you are going to an IOT then you can only get free fees for a second time if you did not progress beyond 1st year.

However you can get your tuition fees paid by SUSI for University or IOT courses if you are within the income limits etc.

The colleges themselves are responsible for administering free fees etc so if your cousin has gotten them so far then the college reckons she qualifies so no probs there then.

dubdad

I think your cousin is fine keenedge. She is going to a uni, didn't finish year one and it has been more than five years. All the boxes are ticked. Mind you i wouldn't go making enquiries if i was her. 'what the eye doesn't see the chef gets away with' as my uncle used to say, who was a chef(worringly enough ).