new job vs phase 7

testikle

Hi Guys

posting for a friend

My mate is currently in phase 7 of his apprenticeship with 8 weeks to go,he has been offered a job with a brilliant company,they dont require him to have his papers as officially he will be a "technician" however they dont want him to not get his papers for his own good.

FAS say that he has to complete the 8 weeks or wont be qualified (this is what his advisor says but not sure if true)the company cant wait 8 weeks to take him on as they are very busy and need someone (they have given him 5 weeks already to sort it)

any suggestions or roundabout ways,all he needs is someone to sign off phase 7 which we all know is a paper excercise

cheers for any help

has anyone been in a similar situation or is there any way around it

m.j.w

Just wondering how he has 8 weeks of phase 7 left? I am in phase 7 myself and I finished college at start of july so that means I only have 3 weeks of phase 7 left before I can be signed off. I thought all the college stints started all at the same time so maybe he is mistaken. After phase 6 you only need to work 12 weeks and we were actually told that you could get your cert faster if you really needed it for going travelling so Id say he should keep on at fas!!

m.j.w

Just checked there and i finished phase 6 on the 14th of june so my 12 weeks is actually up tomorrow Maybe your mate is the same!

testikle

there was a couple of weeks delay until he could go back to his employer,hes placed withan employer by fas(employer getting free labour while fas pays,langer of an employer wont help him out)


nah he def has 8 weeks to go,wonder if he told them he was off to australia would they do it?

sullie86

i finished phase 6 in march but wasnt qualified until october you have to serve the full 4 years regrdless of when you finished phase 6 .
maybe your friend could have a word with his present employer and see if they would not tell fas hes left . i know of a few lads that got let go from time to time and still kept there time going as there employer said nothing to fas

m.j.w

sullie86 wrote: »

i finished phase 6 in march but wasnt qualified until october you have to serve the full 4 years regrdless of when you finished phase 6 .
maybe your friend could have a word with his present employer and see if they would not tell fas hes left . i know of a few lads that got let go from time to time and still kept there time going as there employer said nothing to fas

You dont have to finish the 4 years, you only have to work for 12 weeks after you complete phase 6 to complete phase 7.Once you have complete phase 7 you are qualified.

sullie86

thats not what my fas advisor had told me i went there every week after the 12 weeks were up and they wouldnt give me the cert until the 4 years are up cos i had to delay leaving for canada at the time cos i didnt get my papers till november had to request them again the day i qualified and only then would he put it thru on the system

m.j.w

sullie86 wrote: »

thats not what my fas advisor had told me i went there every week after the 12 weeks were up and they wouldnt give me the cert until the 4 years are up cos i had to delay leaving for canada at the time cos i didnt get my papers till november had to request them again the day i qualified and only then would he put it thru on the system

when did you qualify? dont know if its changed recently but this is what we were told and the apprentice who was a year ahead of me in work got signed of 4 months early as he got a job with power team and had to start with them on a certain date.

sullie86

qualified in oct 2009. yea if you look at the chart it says a minimum of 3 months. id say it all depends on your advisor really

m.j.w

sullie86 wrote: »

qualified in oct 2009. yea if you look at the chart it says a minimum of 3 months. id say it all depends on your advisor really

Yea it probably does, fas are a joke anyway so they are liable to do anything.

.G.

sullie86 wrote: »

thats not what my fas advisor had told me i went there every week after the 12 weeks were up and they wouldnt give me the cert until the 4 years are up cos i had to delay leaving for canada at the time cos i didnt get my papers till november had to request them again the day i qualified and only then would he put it thru on the system

Same for me. I had all 7 phases completed and signed of but they wouldn't issue my cert until I had served the full 4 years.

OP,I may be wrong but as far as I'm aware any fully qualified Electrician can sign off on your mates phase 7.A friend of mine did it when he left the trade before completing phase 7 but got a mate of his to sign off on it. If there are any qualified lads working for the new company they could do the assessment with him and sign it for him.

Whoever signs it may have to prove they are qualifed to FAS but other than that there shouldn't be an issue

2011

testikle wrote: »

Hi Guys
My mate is currently in phase 7 of his apprenticeship with 8 weeks to go,he has been offered a job with a brilliant company,they dont require him to have his papers as officially he will be a "technician" however they dont want him to not get his papers for his own good.

I would be very careful here.
If your friend did not complete the apprenticship, took the position with this "billiant company" and for some reason stopped working for them he would have not be qualified at anything. Out of work and unqualified is not a good place to be.

In practice he may well be working as a technician and this company may even refer to him as such, but oficially he would not be a technician as he would not have the qualification.


From personal experience I would not expect any consistency with answers from Fas.
I would suggest that if your friend comes to any agreement with Fas that he should get it it writing from someone senior in Fas before acting on it.

If your friend can demonstrate that he can gain electrical experience under the supervision of a person with a suitable qualification (such as an electrician or electrical engineer) I think he should be able to argue that this will be sufficient to complete serving his time.

Stoner

superg wrote: »

Same for me. I had all 7 phases completed and signed of but they wouldn't issue my cert until I had served the full 4 years.

OP,I may be wrong but as far as I'm aware any fully qualified Electrician can sign off on your mates phase 7.A friend of mine did it when he left the trade before completing phase 7 but got a mate of his to sign off on it. If there are any qualified lads working for the new company they could do the assessment with him and sign it for him.

Whoever signs it may have to prove they are qualifed to FAS but other than that there shouldn't be an issue

FAS have instructional videos to train people on how to sign off these takes, usually an electrician who has witnessed the apprentice carrying out these tasks signs them off. So as far as FAS are concerned if you signed them off then you saw the apprentice completing the task satisfactorily. The forms have to be stamped with a company stamp, if they are being accepted without that then this is news to me.

Also regarding the 4 years, an apprentice must complete the time served and pass the required exams to complete a standards based apprenticeship. Otherwise someone could complete an apprenticeship with little practical experience.

In terms of the older Times based apprenticeship a letter or a series of letters from an employer or employers stating that the apprentice worked for electrical contractors for at least 4 years were accepted by FAS and the unions, however if you are on a standards based system then your apprentice number will contain an element of your registration date and your finish time will have to be a least that date plus four years.

There is some confusion out there when mixing the terms and conditions from the older and newer systems, but the standards based system requires 4 years and all the exams, there is no recognizable qualification for someone on a standards based apprenticeship who has not passed all the required exams.

There are allowances for those individuals who have a Time Served Apprenticeship and did not complete all the exams, however this quantification or recognition is not transferred to a Standards based apprenticeship.

BrianDug

You must complete four years or more to qualify as an electrician regardless of phase six finish date.

Who ever told you that you just need to do twelve weeks post phase six is talking nonesence.

That's a fact.

.G.

Stoner wrote: »

FAS have instructional videos to train people on how to sign off these takes, usually an electrician who has witnessed the apprentice carrying out these tasks signs them off. So as far as FAS are concerned if you signed them off then you saw the apprentice completing the task satisfactorily. The forms have to be stamped with a company stamp, if they are being accepted without that then this is news to me.

Also regarding the 4 years, an apprentice must complete the time served and pass the required exams to complete a standards based apprenticeship. Otherwise someone could complete an apprenticeship with little practical experience.

In terms of the older Times based apprenticeship a letter or a series of letters from an employer or employers stating that the apprentice worked for electrical contractors for at least 4 years were accepted by FAS and the unions, however if you are on a standards based system then your apprentice number will contain an element of your registration date and your finish time will have to be a least that date plus four years.

There is some confusion out there when mixing the terms and conditions from the older and newer systems, but the standards based system requires 4 years and all the exams, there is no recognizable qualification for someone on a standards based apprenticeship who has not passed all the required exams.

There are allowances for those individuals who have a Time Served Apprenticeship and did not complete all the exams, however this quantification or recognition is not transferred to a Standards based apprenticeship.

My mate got his friend to sign the form and his last Electrical company stamped it for him even though he was out of the game which is fair enough in my book,he passed all his exams and got a better job,he shouldn't be stopped from taking it because he's short a few weeks of time.I know a lad who served 2 years,passed all the college phases and is still qualified because he worked the cracks in the system.

They moved to close any loopholes recently but anyone who thinks the system is bullet proof is naive

For the OP if the new company has any qualified lads working for them,they can do the assessment for his mate and the company that employs them both can stamp the form.

maxamillius

4 years must be served no matter what infortunately

Stoner

superg wrote: »

he passed all his exams and got a better job,he shouldn't be stopped from taking it because he's short a few weeks of time.

For the OP if the new company has any qualified lads working for them,they can do the assessment for his mate and the company that employs them both can stamp the form.

Regarding the first point, technically it is a 4 year apprenticeship and what any individual thinks is not relevant, a few weeks short for one or a year for another etc. It might be harsh, but that's the way it is as far as FAS, the awarding body is concerned.

With respect to your second point, it matches my point if I am reading it correctly.

We have an apprentice, a qualified electrician, the company that employs them both and a company stamp, perfect. If however you are stating that a company that the apprentice was never registered to stamp the forms, then that too would be news to me and to the best of my knowledge this is something that FAS has not promoted. Unless FAS allow for third party assessment, I cant see why they would not but I do not represent FAS.

Therefore we have to be mindful that boards is privately owned and we should not offer advice on how to circumvent any system, not that that was anyone's intention.

.G.

Stoner wrote: »

Regarding the first point, technically it is a 4 year apprenticeship and what any individual thinks is not relevant, a few weeks short for one or a year for another etc. It might be harsh, but that's the way it is as far as FAS, the awarding body is concerned.

With respect to your second point, it matches my point if I am reading it correctly.

We have an apprentice, a qualified electrician, the company that employs them both and a company stamp, perfect. If however you are stating that a company that the apprentice was never registered to stamp the forms, then that too would be news to me and to the best of my knowledge this is something that FAS has not promoted. Unless FAS allow for third party assessment, I cant see why they would not but I do not represent FAS.

Therefore we have to be mindful that boards is privately owned and we should not offer advice on how to circumvent any system, not that that was anyone's intention.

If the OP's mate speaks to his advisor and tells him his new company has a sparks that can do his phase 7 assessment then I can't see why they wouldn't allow it whether the company is registered with FAS or not.He can also do the phase 7 assessment with his current company before he leaves,no rule says it has to be done at the end of the 8 weeks.Once its in he's only waiting on the "time served" part. As my own advisor told me before I qualified,they want us off their systems so we "aren't their problem any more" .FAS do allow for any course relevant to the trade that the apprentice has done either through employment or off their own back to be used as counting toward time served so if the OP's mate has done anything like that it can be used to allow weeks to be knocked off.

There again he made me serve every second of my time!

My fault for being honest:)