Best Umbrella Company?

Bawnmore

I've done a quick search, but all threads seem to be a little outdated. I'm currently working as a contractor for the past year and have been extended for the following year. When I began as a contractor, I was a bit rushed with the start date being so close and chose an umbrella company which was recommended to me at the time.

This time around, I have a little bit more time, so looking into things a bit closer. Does anyone have a recommendation for an umbrella company they have used in the past? Or ones they are with currently maybe?

I'm also playing with the idea of a limited company, but I'm not sure it's worth the added hassle as it'd be a push to bring claimable expenses up to any level worthwhile. Are there any other notable advantages to setting up a limited company?

I know CXC offer this service, but I don't have experience personally. From asking around they appear decent enough.

srsly78

Bawnmore wrote: »

Are there any other notable advantages to setting up a limited company?

With umbrella you have to pay employers 10.5% prsi contribution. As a director of ltd company you don't. However directors lose access to JSA because of this.

jendafer1

I was with Prima for a short time and found them very quick to respond to any queries I had.

Deep Thought

Have been with CXC for the past 3 months and they do a fine Job

Everything done on line, Expenses hours etc...

they doing the invoicing , all the tax to keep you legal and then they pay you on the day they receive payment

Good company all round, great communication and advice on how to keep as much as possible

trooney

I'm using Fenero and find them to be great. They have options for being an employee (so you can still claim SW benefits if unemployed) or a director, either sole trader stylee or ltd company. And, as above, they look after all the financials: tax, expenses, etc.

eoinf

With CXC for the past 5 years, I was in a similar situation rushed at the start and just went with who the recruitment company advised.

Can't fault them but also don't get much from them unless you ask.

Id say shop around and see what the prices are like , CXC aren't the cheapest.

Like you i toyed with the idea of the LTD company but i am unsure if i would see any major benefit.

Stheno

I used CXC in the past, found them great.

srsly78

eoinf wrote: »

unsure if i would see any major benefit.

10.5%

Assuming you keep working and don't go on dole.

eoinf

srsly78 wrote: »

10.5%

Assuming you keep working and don't go on dole.

what 10.5%?

srsly78

Employer's prsi contribution.

eoinf

srsly78 wrote: »

Employer's prsi contribution.

you don't pay that with an Umbrella company.

srsly78

Yes you do if you are an employee but not a director. This is the difference between ltd company vs normal employee.

Note that some umbrellas offer the option of setting up an ltd company for you, and make you a director. This was not what I was referring to. Usually they charge silly fees for this option so you are better off doing it yourself anyway.

eoinf

srsly78 wrote: »

Yes you do if you are an employee but not a director. This is the difference between ltd company vs normal employee.

Note that some umbrellas offer the option of setting up an ltd company for you, and make you a director. This was not what I was referring to. Usually they charge silly fees for this option so you are better off doing it yourself anyway.

i don't think they set-up a ltd company for you they just make a director of an existing company. €150-200 a month (which is also tax deductible) for this option.

Bawnmore

I completely forgot to follow this thread. I just saw spotted it on the homepage and thought fantastic - that'll save me starting my own thread

Thanks for all the advise so far. I'm also with CXC at the moment, but looking at changing to bring down the monthly rate if at all possible. No complaints with CXC, just looking to save a little extra if there's a comparable but cheaper service out there.

I've been in contact with Icon Accounting in the past few weeks who take about 3/4 of CXC's fee (so €95 instead of €125) so I might give this a go.

srsly78

eoinf wrote: »

i don't think they set-up a ltd company for you they just make a director of an existing company. €150-200 a month (which is also tax deductible) for this option.

Doesn't matter, you are still a director of a limited company with this option (also you need 25%+ shareholding). This is not the usual setup for umbrella companies.

Those prices are a ripoff btw, a normal accountant will be half the price or less. Also hilariously it's less work to run the company yourself as you don't need to mail stuff off to a middleman all the time. The Irish revenue online system is very good and it's easy to run a paperless office (use unvouched subsistence, and try to pay online when possible = receipt in email).

Umbrella company is only good for people starting off. Everyone I know that has been contracting for a few years ditches the umbrella as soon as practical.

Doge

Thanks for all who contributed to this thread.

I'm trying to decide between Fenero and another company.

I got a quote from the other company saying:

"The gross monthly fee is €115, however after tax relief this costs you approx €60 per month."

I don't really understand what it means.

Is Fenero's fee reduced also after tax relief?

This is the fee to set up as an employee under an umbrella company.

Any help would be appreciated.

Stheno

waveform wrote: »

Thanks for all who contributed to this thread.

I'm trying to decide between Fenero and another company.

I got a quote from the other company saying:

"The gross monthly fee is €115, however after tax relief this costs you approx €60 per month."

I don't really understand what it means.

Is Fenero's fee reduced also after tax relief?

This is the fee to set up as an employee under an umbrella company.

Any help would be appreciated.

The fee you pay them is 115 but it's fully tax deductible, so if you are on higher tax etc, it reduces by almost 50%

Bawnmore

Stheno wrote: »

The fee you pay them is 115 but it's fully tax deductible, so if you are on higher tax etc, it reduces by almost 50%

Would I be right in assuming it's only fully tax deductible in a package where you're a director of a limited company, or is this possible on an employee scheme also? And if so, would you need to actively claim this as an expense, or would the company be doing this for you automatically?

srsly78

It's deductible in either case. Just be aware that if you are a normal employee you get hit for 10.5% extra tax.

Bawnmore

srsly78 wrote: »

It's deductible in either case. Just be aware that if you are a normal employee you get hit for 10.5% extra tax.

Thanks srsly78 - I was never aware of this, so I'm assuming I either haven't been claiming this all along, or CXC have been doing this for me (which I don't think is the case.

sartay

waveform wrote: »

Thanks for all who contributed to this thread.

I'm trying to decide between Fenero and another company.

I got a quote from the other company saying:

"The gross monthly fee is €115, however after tax relief this costs you approx €60 per month."

I don't really understand what it means.

Is Fenero's fee reduced also after tax relief?

This is the fee to set up as an employee under an umbrella company.

Any help would be appreciated.

I use Fenero and the fee is deductible as well. It should be the same for all the umbrella companies AFAIK assuming they are including it when they do your payslip. I can see mine getting deducted as an expense in the salary calculations that I get sent over. So their fee only costs me about half of the €95 cos of the tax relief.

Bawnmore

sartay wrote: »

I use Fenero and the fee is deductible as well. It should be the same for all the umbrella companies AFAIK assuming they are including it when they do your payslip. I can see mine getting deducted as an expense in the salary calculations that I get sent over. So their fee only costs me about half of the €95 cos of the tax relief.

So you can actually see this deduction on your payslip as an expense? If so, I certainly haven't seen the same. Do you mind if I ask what umbrella company you are with? I due a change I think

Edit: Just spotted you're with Fenora.

srsly78

You shouldn't see it on a payslip because it has nothing to do with your pay. It's a business expense, this comes off your GROSS - ie before tax. This is why it should not even make it onto a payslip.

It SHOULD however be visible on some kind of accounts presented by the umbrella.

Don't confuse company income with personal income. Personal income is what is left over after all expenses get deducted.

sartay

srsly78 wrote: »

You shouldn't see it on a payslip because it has nothing to do with your pay. It's a business expense, this comes off your GROSS - ie before tax. This is why it should not even make it onto a payslip.

It SHOULD however be visible on some kind of accounts presented by the umbrella.

Don't confuse company income with personal income. Personal income is what is left over after all expenses get deducted.

Hi srsly78 - no, I'm not confusing it with my payslip. Fenero send me out payslips but also something called a salary calculation document. Basically it itemises everything from the amount that was invoiced on my behalf, all the expenses I have put through (including Fenero's fee) and then shows my gross salary and how the taxes were worked out. You are right that their fee comes off my income before tax - this is shown on my salary calc document. I find it pretty good to be honest, it just means I can trace everything through to see how it was all worked out.

sartay

Bawnmore wrote: »

So you can actually see this deduction on your payslip as an expense? If so, I certainly haven't seen the same. Do you mind if I ask what umbrella company you are with? I due a change I think

Edit: Just spotted you're with Fenora.

Yep, I get a payslip and a document with every payslip which itemises everything so I can see how much I invoiced the company I work for, how much expenses I put through and how the taxes were worked out and stuff. I don't know that I'd really understand it all if I just had a payslip on its own TBH. They call it a salary calculation document - I find it really helpful as it has everything listed, even how the total taxes were calculated.

Bawnmore

sartay wrote: »

Yep, I get a payslip and a document with every payslip which itemises everything so I can see how much I invoiced the company I work for, how much expenses I put through and how the taxes were worked out and stuff. I don't know that I'd really understand it all if I just had a payslip on its own TBH. They call it a salary calculation document - I find it really helpful as it has everything listed, even how the total taxes were calculated.

Good to know, thanks - last question I can think of for now - how do you submit your proof of expense documents (receipts, bills etc.)? Do you email them in or do the have an online portal or similar?

sartay

Bawnmore wrote: »

Good to know, thanks - last question I can think of for now - how do you submit your proof of expense documents (receipts, bills etc.)? Do you email them in or do the have an online portal or similar?

I just email mine

Doge

Thanks a lot for your input sartay.

I ended up going with Fenero in the end, that salary calculation document is a nice touch!

mossy100

Believe me I’ve been through the wars with Revenue and I have used the umbrella in the past so when I came across this I had to add a few pearls of wisdom ye might like to hear

First of all, anyone still using an umbrella company needs to get their head examined! If you’re an employee, unless you are on a tiny rate per hour the figures just don’t stack up. I cant remember now the figures the accountant gave me but basically if you are going to earn more than 20K in a year your better off with your own company.

Also if you're a director of an umbrella company, search the company name on Cro.ie, click on the submissions and if you are seeing a load of B10’s file that means there are load of contractors being put through your company. This basically means that you're underpaying your taxes by 10.75%. I was actually in one of these with one of the above named accountants but after talking to my current accountant, I quickly jumped ship. Basically my current accountant is telling me that if you have less than 50% shareholding you have to be in a control relationship with the company not to pay 10.75% PRSI. Considering I never even signed the accounts and didn't even know how many other people were in the company until my new accountant showed me how to look it up, that would be a bit of a stretch. Also hated that I could not control my own bank accountant and always a bit worried of what the other guys were doing you never know.

Anyway your own company is the only way to go and to be honest stay away from these off the shelf guys you end up dealing with some young fellow out of college who is reading answers from a manual. With my current accountant I deal directly with one of the tax partners on all issues and you can tell after 2 minutes on the phone they know exactly what they are talking about. Try it yourselves! By the way 2 of the accountants out there will actually send you the package they use to do the calculations so you can play around with it yourself so you can see exactly what they are doing, not some stupid web portal or PDF. Ask around as contracting is a small community!!!

Anyways that my civic duty for the day!! You have been warned!!