50% of Galway households rent

snubbleste

Half of Galway City’s population now living in rented home

Of the 27,697 permanent households in the city, 13,716 are rented accommodation.

This is data from Census 2011. It states permanent households which I presume excludes transients such as students.
I find this a pretty high figure which I thought would have been closer to the 30% mark. Are galwegians more financially prudent when it comes to home ownership or are we priced out of home ownership?

More than one in ten residential properties in the city are vacant (3,755) – and a breakdown shows that 1,887 are houses, 1,685 are apartments and 183 are holiday homes.

This was April 2011, it appears to be a high vacancy rate considering the time of year.

BhoscaCapall

snubbleste wrote: »

Are galwegians more financially prudent when it comes to home ownership

Uh, obviously not.

antoobrien

snubbleste wrote: »

Are galwegians more financially prudent when it comes to home ownership or are we priced out of home ownership?

Considering the state of the Latin Quarter on your average Friday or Saturday night, financial prudence does not seem to be the reason, so it's more than likely the second bit (there are still places in Doughiska for FTBs where the asking price is 200k ffs).

Consider that the population of the city has doubled in about 30 years, there has been a lot of scope for investment properties in Galway.

It'd be interesting to get figures for how many of these people are living in apartments vs houses and the ages of the buildings (information that probably isn't available unfortunately).

muppetkiller

Seeing at any given time in the city the population is 50% Students or Tourists it probably makes sense.

Wompa1

muppetkiller wrote: »

Seeing at any given time in the city the population is 50% Students or Tourists it probably makes sense.

During the off-peak seasons on weekends when I would estimate 90% of the student population goes home. There's still a fair crowd down there, so I say the point stands

snubbleste

snubbleste wrote: »

Are galwegians more financially prudent when it comes to home ownership or are we priced out of home ownership?

I wouldn't call renting being financially prudent for a permanent settled household, when you can have a mortgage nowadays for less than rent in most places which is only paying off someone elses mortgage.

doubleglaze

Interesting.

I live in a good estate. Very quiet. No problems. The estate looks good.

At least 50% of the houses are rented.

Butterface

Wompa1 wrote: »

During the off-peak seasons on weekends when I would estimate 90% of the student population goes home. There's still a fair crowd down there, so I say the point stands

That's a very high estimate.

Mrs OBumble

Myla Hundreds Peddler wrote: »

I wouldn't call renting being financially prudent for a permanent settled household, when you can have a mortgage nowadays for less than rent in most places which is only paying off someone elses mortgage.

This argument has been had many times over the the accommodation and property forum. Don't want to repeat it, except to say:

Firstly, don't forget to factor in costs of insurance, maintenance and the forthcoming property tax.

Second, factor in the probability of your workplace closing. Eg if Boston or Medtronic ever shut up shop here, there are a LOT of screwed mortage-owners.



Back to the purpose of this thread - and what's the problem with that? Renters can be just as stable and responsible as anyone else.

snubbleste

Just to add that the PRTB & CSO have released a new report based on Census 2011 stating that 37.5% of Galway residents are in private rented accommodation as opposed to social housing programmes. Nationally, the private rented accommodation proportion is 18.5%

The PRTB have also released an average rent index.
Does your rent match the average for your property type?

ScumLord

Wompa1 wrote: »

During the off-peak seasons on weekends when I would estimate 90% of the student population goes home. There's still a fair crowd down there, so I say the point stands

Tourists would take up some of those houses.

Renting makes much more sense to me. All the hassles of owning a house are someone elses problems and all I have to worry about is paying one fixed payment outside of utilities.

fergiesfolly

I'd put the high number of renters down to the large student and immigrant populations.
And that'll probably change as the immigrants put down roots and go from a European renting model to an Irish model of home ownership.
Not pitching one over the other from a financial point of view, but I'd assume most people in their thirties would prefer a more stable home environment that ownership gives, which renting doesn't.

Mrs OBumble

fergiesfolly wrote: »

... a more stable home environment that ownership gives, which renting doesn't.

Yeah, but if a bunch of k*** move in next door, there are certain advantages to renting.

It all depend on how good a rental situation you can get. A professional landlord, who's running his/her business properly and who's not likely to want the property for their own family, can be a very good proposition.

jkforde

fergiesfolly wrote: »

...a European renting model to an Irish model of home ownership.

... I'd assume most people in their thirties would prefer a more stable home environment that ownership gives, which renting doesn't.

so are you saying most Europeans don't live in a stable home environment because they rent their home? that's not true and come on, look where our blind immature passion for home ownership got us!
back on topic, one reason people are renting in this town are because they're waiting for the bottom of the local market, another 25% decrease in paid prices should do it!

ScumLord

fergiesfolly wrote: »

but I'd assume most people in their thirties would prefer a more stable home environment that ownership gives, which renting doesn't.

How is it any different? If I can't pay my rent I can move into a cheaper place, if I can't pay my mortgage I'm screwed.

fergiesfolly

Having rented several properties over the years. I am of the opinion that owning your own home gives a sense of stability and comfort that renting didn't. The landlords( even the good ones ) always made a point of pointing out that my home was their house and that we were only a temporary inconvenience. I understand that others may have had better experiences while renting than I and that some people got badly burned during the housing boom. But this my experience and my opinion.
And not every home is in mortgage difficulty or in negative equity. The vast majority of people living in mortgaged houses are paying their mortgages comfortably in properties worth more than when they purchased them.

ScumLord

ScumLord wrote: »

Renting makes much more sense to me. All the hassles of owning a house are someone elses problems and all I have to worry about is paying one fixed payment outside of utilities.

In my opinion renting only makes sense as a temporary measure until you settle down in the place you want to live which is mid 20's to mid 30's for most people

A place you rent will never be your home. You cant furnish it as you wish, paint it as you wish, change its layout etc etc and you could at any point be given notice and asked to move out for any number of reasons, I would find this a big deal as a person in my 20's never mind for what it would be like for a family.

Its also madness nowadays with house prices at an all time low, a mortgage will cost less than rent in a lot of cases and you could own your place outright within 25 to 30 years. After years of paying out your hard earned on rent you have nothing to show for it.

People aren't going out and getting long mortgages from banks and paying over the odds for houses?

What's the problem again?

Mrs OBumble

Myla Hundreds Peddler wrote: »

A place you rent will never be your home. You cant furnish it as you wish, paint it as you wish, change its layout etc etc and you could at any point be given notice and asked to move out for any number of reasons.

The first bit is just because it's customary to rent places fully furnished in Ireland. It's not the same elsewhere. (And I believe it's not at all a good thing for the maturation of young people moving out of home, who ever have to take responsibility for getting their own "stuff").

Painting .. you can paint as you want, provided you return it to a neutral state when you leave. Yes, even in Galway.

Beign asked to move - this is all about the tenancy protection legisation. Many central European countries have systems that give tenants a lot more protection than Irish law does, and prevent problems like this.

Das Kitty

snubbleste wrote: »

Just to add that the PRTB & CSO have released a new report based on Census 2011 stating that 37.5% of Galway residents are in private rented accommodation as opposed to social housing programmes. Nationally, the private rented accommodation proportion is 18.5%

The PRTB have also released an average rent index.
Does your rent match the average for your property type?

The rental price index is really interesting. I was really paying over the odds for rent in 2010. I knew it anyway. Hopefully it'll give tenants a bit more ammunition to get a fair rental price.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The first bit is just because it's customary to rent places fully furnished in Ireland. It's not the same elsewhere. (And I believe it's not at all a good thing for the maturation of young people moving out of home, who ever have to take responsibility for getting their own "stuff").

Painting .. you can paint as you want, provided you return it to a neutral state when you leave. Yes, even in Galway.

Beign asked to move - this is all about the tenancy protection legisation. Many central European countries have systems that give tenants a lot more protection than Irish law does, and prevent problems like this.

For a start I think a place you are renting should be fully furnished or close to it, who wants to waste even more money on furnishings for a place they don't own.

A rented place will never be your home simple as that. I can't imagine being brought up in a rented house, it could just be taken back by the landlord and I would no longer have the home I grew up in to go home to. Its a horrible thought.

We don't need better tenancy protection legislation, people who plan on being in a place for the long term should be buying a house (Its would also be unfair on the owner of the property who should be within their right to take it back for their own use if they want to once a reasonable amount of notice is given).

I cant get into the mind of someone happy to spend half their life paying rent and then have nothing rather than pay off a mortgage and then at a point the payments stop and you own the house and have that money that someone else is paying in rent to spend on other things.

Even if you are only going to be in a place for 5 or 6 years I still think buying wisely is a better option in the current climate. Prices have more or less bottomed out so buy now, pay a mortgage for 5 years and sell on even at the same price and you will give or take get all that money you would have spent on rent back.

syklops

As of July of this year I will have moved house 7 times in the previous 5 years. Before that I was 4 years living in the same place. I am not ready to buy yet, but I would quite happily sign a 3 or 5 year lease as i don't want to go anywhere else. However, Irish landlords don't seem to 'do' long term leases.

I would imagine why so many rent in Galway city, is that when you finally go to buy a house, you can get one much cheaper only a few miles out of the city,

For a start I think a place you are renting should be fully furnished or close to it, who wants to waste even more money on furnishings for a place they don't own.

Personally I think you should have the option. if the bed or couch is knackered and uncomfortable, I don't mind spending money on something I know is comfortable and I know will last.

A rented place will never be your home simple as that. I can't imagine being brought up in a rented house, it could just be taken back by the landlord and I would no longer have the home I grew up in to go home to. Its a horrible thought.

Admittedly tenancy law in other countries is much stricter than here. Both my father and my fiancee were brought up in rented houses.

McTigs

Myla Hundreds Peddler wrote: »

Its also madness nowadays with house prices at an all time low,

Myla Hundreds Peddler wrote: »

Prices have more or less bottomed out so buy now

You reckon?

Taxes going up,
pay coming down,
banks not lending,
employment growth nil,
more people leaving than arriving,
landslide of mortgage defaults and repossessions in the post,
Economic growth stagnant,
Ongoing budget deficit,
Crippling national debt,

But let's leave the above aside and look at it very simply.

The average house price in ireland is 171,000, the average wage is 34,000.

The banks will lend 3.5 times so add that to 10% deposit saved and you get 34,000*3.5=120000 + 12,000 = 132000.

In order to bridge that gap either wages have to up (not gonna happen anytime soon) or prices have to come down. This is true of every country on earth, once prices go above a certain multiple of incomes or below a certain rental yeild a correction must be made and Ireland is no different. There is quite simply no arguing with the maths.

Couple that with the ireland specific actors above and we are still looking at another 20% drop. At least. Probably more.

McTigs

McTigs wrote: »

You reckon?

Taxes going up,
pay coming down,
banks not lending,
employment growth nil,
more people leaving than arriving,
landslide of mortgage defaults and repossessions in the post,
Economic growth stagnant,
Ongoing budget deficit,
Crippling national debt,

But let's leave the above aside and look at it very simply.

The average house price in ireland is 171,000, the average wage is 34,000.

The banks will lend 3.5 times so add that to 10% deposit saved and you get 34,000*3.5=120000 + 12,000 = 132000.

In order to bridge that gap either wages have to up (not gonna happen anytime soon) or prices have to come down. This is true of every country on earth, once prices go above a certain multiple of incomes or below a certain rental yeild a correction must be made and Ireland is no different. There is quite simply no arguing with the maths.

Couple that with the ireland specific actors above and we are still looking at another 20% drop. At least. Probably more.

That list does not apply to everyone. For instance I know plenty of people in very stable employment and a lot of them are getting pay increases rather than cuts. The last 6 things on the list are irrelevant to someone who has a job and can afford to pay a mortgage.

The banks are lending I have 2 or 3 friends currently building/buying houses all in their mid to late 20's.

The banks will not necessarily limit lending to 3.5 times the salary and also your using an average there are plenty of people on more and much more than 34k. Also some people may have a much higher percentage of a deposit through savings, help from parents etc. Its also most likely people will be buying as a couple or as friends buying a place which ups the amount which can be borrowed considerably.

A wisely bought house will not fall by 20% actually I don't think any house in the county which is fairly priced now will fall by another 20%. There are new houses easily inside commuting distance of Galway selling for 80k sure some people could nearly buy one for cash already. The other option is a more expensive house bought closer or in town, because of location these won't fall much either if they are currently fairly priced and will be easy to rent out or sell on.

I'm not saying it will suit everyone but if you are in a stable fairly well paying job and don't see yourself moving on for a while buying is far far more attractive as far as I'd be concerned compared to renting and if you buy wisely renting out or selling on should not be a major issue.

BlatentCheek

IMO not many ppl in Ireland who can afford to buy, choose to rent instead. I can't see why Galway would be so different even allowing for those from other countries having a different attitude to renting long-term.
You can give out about our "backwards" approach to home-ownership until the cows come home but renters historically faced poorer quality accommodation and crap legal protection against unscrupulous landlords. Our law has come on but definitely not enough and if most rented housing stock is what was built during the Celtic Tiger then a lot of it is bound to be shoddy, from my experience.
There's a vocal group on this website who chose to rent instead of buy, and had enough money for that to be a real choice, during the Celtic Tiger. They seem to have done very well out of that choice and fair play to them but even they must admit that people like them are very rare. IMO affordability rather than choice accounts for the statistics cited by the OP

McTigs

Myla Hundreds Peddler wrote: »

That list does not apply to everyone. For instance I know plenty of people in very stable employment and a lot of them are getting pay increases rather than cuts. The last 6 things on the list are irrelevant to someone who has a job and can afford to pay a mortgage.

The banks are lending I have 2 or 3 friends currently building/buying houses all in their mid to late 20's.

The banks will not necessarily limit lending to 3.5 times the salary and also your using an average there are plenty of people on more and much more than 34k. Also some people may have a much higher percentage of a deposit through savings, help from parents etc. Its also most likely people will be buying as a couple or as friends buying a place which ups the amount which can be borrowed considerably.

A wisely bought house will not fall by 20% actually I don't think any house in the county which is fairly priced now will fall by another 20%. There are new houses easily inside commuting distance of Galway selling for 80k sure some people could nearly buy one for cash already. The other option is a more expensive house bought closer or in town, because of location these won't fall much either if they are currently fairly priced and will be easy to rent out or sell on.

I'm not saying it will suit everyone but if you are in a stable fairly well paying job and don't see yourself moving on for a while buying is far far more attractive as far as I'd be concerned compared to renting and if you buy wisely renting out or selling on should not be a major issue.

you're missing the point kid.

Not everything on that list applies to each individual but the matter to the economy and by follow on the housing market as a whole.

I used averages as an illustration of how the average wage still cannot afford the average house which is not a sustainable situation. Correction has to be made and will. Water always finds it's own level.

Of cousre some people earn more and good luck to them but that is beside the point.

If the banks are not limiting themselves to 3.5 times, they ****ing should be.... it's relaxed lending criterae that got us into this **** in the first place

Mrs OBumble

Myla Hundreds Peddler wrote: »

For a start I think a place you are renting should be fully furnished or close to it, who wants to waste even more money on furnishings for a place they don't own.

A rented place will never be your home simple as that. I can't imagine being brought up in a rented house, it could just be taken back by the landlord and I would no longer have the home I grew up in to go home to. Its a horrible thought.

If you're in an unfurnished rental, then you're not "buying furnishings for a place you don't own". Intstead, you are buying furniture for you, which just happens to be placed inside the house where you're living. When you move, the stuff goes with you.

Benefits: Makes moving harder, so you don't do it at whim. Reduces the chance of midnight flits. Gives you the chance to start gathering your own "stuff" instead of having to get it all when you buy a house. Teaches young people the value of material goods, and to look after their household equipment.

And re not having the home you grew up in to go home to: that's likely to happen eventually, anyway, when your parents get older and move into a smaller place that's easier to maintain.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And re not having the home you grew up in to go home to: that's likely to happen eventually, anyway, when your parents get older and move into a smaller place that's easier to maintain.

That certainly won't be happening nor do I know anyone who has done something like that. Our home place will be passed on to one of us in the future.

Another big thing about buying over renting, having something to pass on to the next generation.

El_Dangeroso

snubbleste wrote: »

The PRTB have also released an average rent index.
Does your rent match the average for your property type?

Just had a quick check and that index seems way off. I think some landlords might be lying to the taxman.

For example for a 3 bed house in Galway city (presuming this includes all the suburbs) the average is 659.

A quick search on Daft for 3 beds under 700 yields only 7 properties. Compare that to the 161 3 beds above 700 euro and I have no idea how the index comes to such a low average.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you're in an unfurnished rental, then you're not "buying furnishings for a place you don't own". Intstead, you are buying furniture for you, which just happens to be placed inside the house where you're living. When you move, the stuff goes with you.

Benefits: Makes moving harder, so you don't do it at whim. Reduces the chance of midnight flits. Gives you the chance to start gathering your own "stuff" instead of having to get it all when you buy a house. Teaches young people the value of material goods, and to look after their household equipment.

And re not having the home you grew up in to go home to: that's likely to happen eventually, anyway, when your parents get older and move into a smaller place that's easier to maintain.

I really couldn't agree with this ^^ more. The current set up is like some surrogate-landlord-mammy situation until you 'grow up' and get a mortgage.

I think the lack of a decent rental sector really helped inflate the property bubble.

snubbleste

Asking prices on daft ain't the same as the actual price paid. Refine your search to 'galway city council' and see if the figure drops.

El_Dangeroso

snubbleste wrote: »

Asking prices on daft ain't the same as the actual price paid. Refine your search to 'galway city council' and see if the figure drops.

People don't get a 200 drop in rent by negotiating except in very rare cases. Most you'll ever get off is 100 max. I did the original search for Galway city council.

Iwannahurl

"Of the 27,697 permanent households in the city, 13,716 are rented accommodation."

For me this raises questions regarding ownership of rented properties, and whether the properties are all registered.

https://portal.prtb.ie/public_registrations.aspx

syklops

snubbleste wrote: »

Asking prices on daft ain't the same as the actual price paid. Refine your search to 'galway city council' and see if the figure drops.

Where is that Galway City Council option? I will be looking to rent a house in Galway in the next couple of months. Just did a search there and there is only 4 1-3 bed houses under 700

El_Dangerous wrote:

Just had a quick check and that index seems way off. I think some landlords might be lying to the taxman.

For example for a 3 bed house in Galway city (presuming this includes all the suburbs) the average is 659.

A quick search on Daft for 3 beds under 700 yields only 7 properties. Compare that to the 161 3 beds above 700 euro and I have no idea how the index comes to such a low average.

I agree that index seems way off, unless they know of some cheap accommodation that we don't know about. Surely for the average to be less than 700, to off set all the high rents in Galway, you would have to have either a number of very cheap rents or a large number of rents below 700, but a search on daft for me as I said above only finds 4 properties below 700.

snubbleste

I did a search for three bed in Galway
All property types- Three bed- Galway (City Council)
2012Q1 833.25
2012Q2 832.34
2012Q3 852.90
2012Q4 837.15
2013Q1 844.22

One of the reasons the PRTB average rent index might be lower is because of rent supplement. The maximum rent that can be charged for a three bed is €725.

I'm confused now!

El_Dangeroso

What am I doing wrong in the search?

I am clicking on semi-detatched:

snubbleste

I chose 'All Property Types' to get my figures.