Irish Rail hot food

bk

My parents came up on the train from Cork today and it seems Irish Rail are now serving hot food on the train. Menu includes:

- Full Irish Breakfast (bacon, sausage, egg, etc.)
- Porridge
- Hot Ciabatta
- Toast
- Special of the day which has a picture of steak
- Chips

Is this new?

I assume it is just airline style, microwaved meals, but I think it is good news and Irish Rail actually doing something positive to differentiate themselves from the bus services.

harr

Not new but it used to be only first class or a train with a dining carriage,i know someone who worked in the kitchen on these trains and on the Enterprise to Belfast all the food is cooked fresh in the little galley kitchen on board well it used to be.

foggy_lad

Possibly a mix of grilled and toasted and microwaved foods. These have been available from the small shop on board for some time.

Louche Lad

bk wrote: »

My parents came up on the train from Cork today and it seems Irish Rail are now serving hot food on the train. Menu includes:

- Full Irish Breakfast (bacon, sausage, egg, etc.)
- Porridge
- Hot Ciabatta
- Toast
- Special of the day which has a picture of steak
- Chips

Is this new?

I assume it is just airline style, microwaved meals, but I think it is good news and Irish Rail actually doing something positive to differentiate themselves from the bus services.

Sounds like what's on here: http://www.irishrail.ie/media/menu180x180_v161.pdf

I didn't know they did this either. But why are they trying to do something as elaborate as a Full Irish, when I doubt they can come up with anything good as you can make yourself? What's wrong with simple things, liked packaged sandwiches, or (off the top of my head) some cold meats/patés with a bread roll and butter, or packaged salads?

noelfirl

Louche Lad wrote: »

Sounds like what's on here: http://www.irishrail.ie/media/menu180x180_v161.pdf

That brochure is hysterical, half the photos have their watermark still on them where they've nicked the preview off the stock photography website.

They've had packaged sandwiches and paninis for a long time, I think hot food has always been available in recent years on the Cork train (with dining car) but what's available changes depending on the time of service. Are there any 22000 services on the other lines that have dining cars?

bk

Louche Lad wrote: »

Sounds like what's on here: http://www.irishrail.ie/media/menu180x180_v161.pdf

Yup, that is it. This is totally new to me, on the trains I use to take it was always just cold sandwiches. I know there were hot meals in the past, but not the last few years.

Louche Lad wrote: »

I didn't know they did this either. But why are they trying to do something as elaborate as a Full Irish, when I doubt they can come up with anything good as you can make yourself? What's wrong with simple things, liked packaged sandwiches, or (off the top of my head) some cold meats/patés with a bread roll and butter, or packaged salads?

I think it is actually good news. I assume it isn't really elaborate, rather just airline style pre-cooked and packaged meals that are then heated on the train.

I always wondered why they didn't do hot cibatta and subway style hot rolls. Would think they would be quiet popular, much more popular then the crappy cold sandwiches.

I agree there is no need for a full dinner service.

coylemj

noelfirl wrote: »

That brochure is hysterical, half the photos have their watermark still on them where they've nicked the preview off the stock photography website.

Correct, they've been lifted from here by someone who didn't bother to register and pay for the photos so the downloads came with the watermarks.....

http://depositphotos.com/category/Food-and-Drink.html

Whoever does this type of marketing/promo stuff for CIE is brain dead, when you see that they can't even use a consistent set of fonts for headers and times in the different PDF timetable files you really know they haven't a clue.

devnull

The only time I went on the enterprise (late service) about 12 months ago there was nothing apart from crisps and hot drinks, the guy said they had ran out of stock and had no euro change and would not take Sterling.

I didn't bother again,

Correct, they've been lifted from here by someone who didn't bother to register and pay for the photos so the downloads came with the watermarks....

So basically they're not actual examples of the products sold at all, they are just deceptions.

Davidth88

Hang on .......the breakfast is 11quid odd , Aer Lingus only charge 7.50 !

Slunk

noelfirl wrote: »

Are there any 22000 services on the other lines that have dining cars?

ICR 30-40 are dining cars. Selected services to galway Waterford tralee limerick and westport.
Breakfast is cooked fresh too. Not microwaved

Lapin

Davidth88 wrote: »

Hang on .......the breakfast is 11quid odd ,

€11.99

I'd call that €12.

Madness. Such blatant over pricing takes the good out of dining on board.

Louche Lad

bk wrote: »

Yup, that is it. This is totally new to me, on the trains I use to take it was always just cold sandwiches. I know there were hot meals in the past, but not the last few years.



I think it is actually good news. I assume it isn't really elaborate, rather just airline style pre-cooked and packaged meals that are then heated on the train.

I always wondered why they didn't do hot cibatta and subway style hot rolls. Would think they would be quiet popular, much more popular then the crappy cold sandwiches.

I agree there is no need for a full dinner service.

These airline-style reheated meals never come out right, do they? (Though it's been many years since I've had one.)

I travel on the Eurostar quite a lot and even there the food that you buy from the buffet is not that good. It is edible, but it's not much fun to eat. They try to replicate full meals, but with the limitations of train catering car, you get strange results. Things like lasagne, but where it's in some sort of cardboard tub, and you have to scoop it out with a plastic fork, hoping the prongs don't break. If I'm travelling from London I usually get things from Marks & Spencer — a much wider choice, and the food is more fun — and bring it on board.

It's absurd that today's train companies imply you can get full restaurant-type meals. It was realistic in Victorian times when the super-rich travelled on Pullman trains and they could afford to have one car dedicated to a kitchen, and maybe 20 staff dedicated to serving about 10 passengers. But today you have two staff with a microwave serving 100 passengers.

foggy_lad

Slunk wrote: »

ICR 30-40 are dining cars. Selected services to galway Waterford tralee limerick and westport.
Breakfast is cooked fresh too. Not microwaved

There is no Dining/Buffet cars on the Waterford or Westport timetables, Limerick and tralee have only one service each day with Dining/Buffet car,

Judgement Day

Don't get it - what is all the confusion here? IE don't provide meals of any sort as far as I know, it's Rail Gourmet. How amazing that they provide hot meals, that was never tried on a train before and how amazing the prices are outrageous - where have you all been living?

http://irishrailways.blogspot.ie/2009/03/irish-railway-catering-long-standing.html

http://irishrailways.blogspot.ie/2009/03/railway-catering-in-rare-oul-times.html

coylemj

Last time I was on the early morning Cork train from Heuston, the catering staff first took orders for breakfast from the punters in the first class carriage, the breakfasts were then served direct to the tables, then they opened up the dining car to the other passengers.

Food is prepared by the chefs in the little kitchen in the dining car, no microwave that I ever saw but if anyone knows how to produce a fried egg from a microwave I'd love to hear about it.

bk

Louche Lad wrote: »

These airline-style reheated meals never come out right, do they? (Though it's been many years since I've had one.)

Actually there is a lot of interesting science behind airline meals. It turns out that peoples taste buds are much less effective at 40,000 feet up. What tastes good at ground level can taste boring and tasteless at high altitudes.

Losty Dublin

coylemj wrote: »

Food is prepared by the chefs in the little kitchen in the dining car, no microwave that I ever saw but if anyone knows how to produce a fried egg from a microwave I'd love to hear about it.

You put the egg onto a lightly greased plate, prick the yolk to stop it going bang and press start. It takes around about 30-40 seconds and the results are good; very little fat and a piping hot egg. Mind you, it's not much quicker than pan frying and it's a lot slower than doing the egg in a deep fryer which some cafe's do.

Steam drivers did theirs on a clean shovel placed into the firebox, tea stewed in a staff issued billy can. Dem were the days

Slunk

foggy_lad wrote: »

Slunk wrote: »

ICR 30-40 are dining cars. Selected services to galway Waterford tralee limerick and westport.
Breakfast is cooked fresh too. Not microwaved

There is no Dining/Buffet cars on the Waterford or Westport timetables, Limerick and tralee have only one service each day with Dining/Buffet car,

Westport and Waterford do get dining cars but no bistro. So only hot ciabattas and sausage rolls etc. Cork limerick galway and tralee get bistro so they have chips, dinners and full breakfast.
Trolley service only has cold sandwiches.

harr

I have seen the kitchens on the dining carriages,small yes but they do have a hot plate,oven,fridge and frier plus a cook/chef to do the food.
Mad prices,there is no way i would pay 12 quid just to have a bit of grub on a train but it used to be included in the price of a first class ticket( i think).

Judgement Day

harr wrote: »

I have seen the kitchens on the dining carriages,small yes but they do have a hot plate,oven,fridge and frier plus a cook/chef to do the food.
Mad prices,there is no way i would pay 12 quid just to have a bit of grub on a train but it used to be included in the price of a first class ticket( i think).

For as long as I have been travelling by train (45 years +), regular travellers brought their own food with them due to the excessive prices - see my earlier post and links. Instead of using the incentive of cheap meals to entice passengers CIE just used them as another source of rapidly diminishing revenue.

coylemj

Judgement Day wrote: »

Instead of using the incentive of cheap meals to entice passengers CIE just used them as another source of rapidly diminishing revenue.

That model (cheap meals) won't work on a train because given the restricted cooking space, there is a limit to the number of meals they can churn out and with the improvement to the rail network and shorter travel times, there's even less time to cater for the punters on a given route so railway food will always be expensive.

Nobody does or doesn't travel by rail based on the price of the onboard food so they can charge as much as they like.

dowlingm

Jesus someone should get slapped for lifting those photos. Amateur hour stuff, like when they put google ads on the old website.

When I get biz class on VIA Rail (much pricier than IE but work pays) it tends to be airline style trays and often stuff is "off the menu" even when starting from Toronto. Breakfast is so so, particularly the bread/pastries but the free wine and liqueurs with lunch and dinner makes the rest of it seem better

Judgement Day

coylemj wrote: »

That model (cheap meals) won't work on a train because given the restricted cooking space, there is a limit to the number of meals they can churn out and with the improvement to the rail network and shorter travel times, there's even less time to cater for the punters on a given route so railway food will always be expensive.

Nobody does or doesn't travel by rail based on the price of the onboard food so they can charge as much as they like.

Don't agree with you based on my own experience in providing catering on railtours - it's all down to CIE's attitude can't, shan't and won't. Has it ever been tried? Actually it was flirted with briefly in the early 1990's - I even remember it on the Sligo line. The point is, saying that people deciding to travel by train because there are cheap meals wouldn't happen is like saying they aren't influenced by free Wifi etc. All these advantages of rail over road do add up but CIE today has all the disadvantages of rail operation and none of the positives.

PS Where are all the shorter journey times? Most inter-city services were faster 20 years ago.

Judgement Day

On their menu a Kit Kat is €1.25 and yet I can buy five bars for €2 in my local Euro shop. All of you IE defenders and retail 'experts' don't bother posting the traditional excuses - pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Wote

That reminds me of the days when the entrance to Heuston was dominated by the Shawlies with their prams loaded with fruit and Dairy Milks. Travellers-Fare Irish style...

Davidth88

Judgement Day wrote: »

On their menu a Kit Kat is €1.25 and yet I can buy five bars for €2 in my local Euro shop. All of you IE defenders and retail 'experts' don't bother posting the traditional excuses - pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

I think to compare Rail gourmet ( what a silly name ) with your average pound shop is bordering on the daft TBH

My comparing it with Aer Lingus is more valid they actually sell their kitkat at 1.50 !

I imagine IE charge Rail' gourmet ' a fortune for the franchise , however thinking about it although knowing the ineptness of CIE I wonder if CIE pay for RG to provide that service ( that really would take the biscuit if you pardon the pun )

Judgement Day

Davidth88 wrote: »

I think to compare Rail gourmet ( what a silly name ) with your average pound shop is bordering on the daft TBH

My comparing it with Aer Lingus is more valid they actually sell their kitkat at 1.50 !

I imagine IE charge Rail' gourmet ' a fortune for the franchise , however thinking about it although knowing the ineptness of CIE I wonder if CIE pay for RG to provide that service ( that really would take the biscuit if you pardon the pun )

It's still uncertain whether IE pay Rail Gourmet to operate the service or the other way round - I think - but we have been over this so often I have forgotten.

To me, the difference between the w/sale price and the retail price is the area of gross profit from which overheads (wages/franchise cost etc) should be met from to come up with a net profit. I know that it will be argued that the service element is the same as that in any restaurant but I'm not having that. To me there's no difference between a corner shop selling a bar of chocolate and the Rail Gourmet poison truck. Anyway, the catering is a mess and has been for decades but then again so is CIE ....

Losty Dublin

Judgement Day wrote: »

To me, the difference between the w/sale price and the retail price is the area of gross profit from which overheads (wages/franchise cost etc) should be met from to come up with a net profit. I know that it will be argued that the service element is the same as that in any restaurant but I'm not having that. To me there's no difference between a corner shop selling a bar of chocolate and the Rail Gourmet poison truck.

How much do Spar charge you for one bar, though? On board catering doesn't have capacity to run with loss leaders on board, expensive and all as they are, but I agree that a little more range and value could be offered on board, even something as basic as chips or a burger.

Mind you, I've seen places charge more for bleh grub than Rail Gourmet so they are not the only ones at it

January

bk wrote: »

Actually there is a lot of interesting science behind airline meals. It turns out that peoples taste buds are much less effective at 40,000 feet up. What tastes good at ground level can taste boring and tasteless at high altitudes.

Did you watch the Heston Blumenthal program too ?

foggy_lad

Losty Dublin wrote: »

How much do Spar charge you for one bar, though? On board catering doesn't have capacity to run with loss leaders on board, expensive and all as they are, but I agree that a little more range and value could be offered on board, even something as basic as chips or a burger.

Mind you, I've seen places charge more for bleh grub than Rail Gourmet so they are not the only ones at it

I have often been on trains where the lousy snack cart doesn't even have bottles of water or a packet of crisps left at the start of their journey as the cart was emptied on the outward trip from Dublin to Waterford/Westport/Galway/etc

vicwatson

3 lids for a bowl of microwaved porridge - WTF?

4.50 for a can of beer :eek:

Wote

What the missus and I do on our occasional Eurostar trips is to buy a half bottle of wine and cook up some chicken legs and bring some crusty french bread for lunch.

Rather civilised and all for less than six quid.

nigra

Now that the pandemic is mostly behind us and public transport is back to 100% capacity, albeit with mandatory masks, does anyone know when it might be possible to buy food or drink of any kind on a train in Ireland? I'm also curious if anyone knows whether the enterprise service is already back to offering food...

Jamie2k9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882049#Comment_117882049

No catering on IE or Enterprise service.

I can't see this changing for at least 6 months, its just not viable to operate catering with such low numbers traveling plus it probally needs to be tendered out first to see if an operator is interested.

L1011

You need quite a lot of customers for onboard catering to work. Demand is only back on weekends - the weekday morning Sligo service which would have been packed to the gills this time of year in 2019 (actually too packed for the trolley to work, really) now has entire empty seat bays of 4+4 for instance.

It'll be 6 weeks or so until there is any chance of the college and office reopenings to bring demand back up.

As for tenders, I would assume the existing contract is in place and just suspended.

nigra

Looks like catering is coming back by years end....

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/07/02/irish-rail-says-catering-service-to-return-to-intercity-lines-by-end-of-year/

whisky_galore

Says nothing about hot food, just trolley services rolled out further.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/80582553#Comment_80582553

I can never understand why someone doesn't look logically at the kit at hand and think to themselves, what can we knock out that's tasty with this setup.

Rows Grower

40 years ago when the InterCity trains were launched you could get a freshly cooked full Irish breakfast on the Cork-Dublin train, there was also the trolley service which served tea/coffee, cakes, biscuits and peanuts.

whisky_galore

Over 100 years ago, you could order a full luncheon basket with plates and cutlery but that's neither here nor there.

Times change, suck it up.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122333768#Comment_122333768

times change suck it up is a meaningless statement really.

rail does have to offer something more then just being an over-priced bus service on the long distance routes, so the poster's point is valid in terms of how the service offers less but for higher fares then previously.

Strumms

it always impressed me travelling by rail in both the UK and France, how much effort went in to looking after customers and catering is one good example…

SNCF…

https://lebar.sncf-connect.com

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122334970#Comment_122334970

Write Irish Rail a strongly worded letter then instead of whinging online about it.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335183#Comment_122335183

I guess it’s all about cost to provide I imagine - Shirley at this point they know the regularly near full/popular times/routes so they could essentially sell out the cooked food stock each time - and maybe an online booking facility with allocated times to eat would help enormously

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122334970#Comment_122334970

The thing is that most of the "long-distance" routes in Ireland are not really that long. It is not uncommon for a Deutsche Bahn ICE to run all the way from Hamburg in the north of the country to Munich or Stuttgart in the south. This can easily amount to 5-6 hours. EuroCity services can run for even longer. I still remember that, during my last year in boarding school in Austria, I would end up sitting on a EuroCity train between Linz in Austria and Frankfurt in Germany for six hours. And that train came from Vienna and would continue on to Dortmund after. On services of that length, having a full-service restaurant car, or even the type of Bar/Bistro thing you get on the TGV makes sense. I used that regularly on those long services (and always counted my blessings when a Croatian or Austrian restaurant car made its way into the consist!)

Now contrast that to Ireland. I think the Cork-Dublin line is the longest line in the network as far as distance covered is concerned, with 255 kilometers according to a quick dirty check on Google Maps. Travel time? Two and a half hours. Meanwhile, the longest duration train ride I've ever been on has been the service from Connolly to Sligo, which, while geographically shorter at 204 kilometers, took nearly four hours. Those are the facts on the ground here. Would I want a better catering offer? Sure. But unlike on the continent, such an offer is not crucial.

As for your argument about differentiating itself from the bus, that's basically a non-issue. The very fact that it's a train is the big differentiator. Even the Class 22000 "InterCity RailCars", which are by far the weakest part of Irish Rail's InterCity/long distance offer in my opinion, offer a better passenger experience than the likes of Aircoach, GoBus or Bus Éireann, and that's only looking at second class. The first class experience is a whole different matter entirely. The thing is that bus operators compete on price because that's all they can do. They can't compete on service, so attempting to "attack" them on that axis will not yield any results, as their target audience really doesn't care about that.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335803#Comment_122335803

I agree with your first two paragraphs. The distances for our intercity rail services are just too short to make full meal service really worth it. Cork to Dublin is 2 and a half hours. Will hopefully get even quicker in future with higher speed rail and electrification. I think most people would just rather get to their destination quicker and then eat with family/friends in a nice restaurant, rather then a noisy, bumpy train.

I do think their is demand for tea/coffee/snacks/sandwiches, but not much else.

Also consider that a full kitchen takes up space that could be used for seating and thus lost revenue.

I disagree with your last paragraph, I genuinely prefer the intercity coach services to the train. Citylink to Cork, I find it more comfortable. Much quieter, less bumpy, dimmed lights, no stupid constant announcements, reclining seats. I can actually sleep on the coach, which I could never do on the Mark4's or ICR's to Cork. It isn't just cheaper, they are actually a more pleasant experience IMO.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335558#Comment_122335558

You could just as easily apply that sentiment to any post on boards, to be fair.

It's a discussion forum and I reckon it's fair enough to point out that IR offer a worse service than they used to.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335888#Comment_122335888

Depends what you mean by worse service?

Irish Rail operate vastly more trains, with vastly greater frequency and capacity then 100 years ago. Hourly trains to Cork, DARTs every 10 minutes. These are a level of service people would only have dreamed of 100 years ago.

Moving people around the country is the core service of Irish Rail, not feeding them!

I do think there is demand for tea/coffee/snacks/sandwiches but I doubt how much demand there is for real sit down dinner service and that has to be traded off against the seating space it uses.

There would be very few rail services around Europe that have journey times less then 3 hours that have full meal service. It is a concept that has fallen out of favour on shorter journey times.

Corben Dallas

There are no Darts every 10 mins… they wanted to bring it in but it has not happened. The Greens are too much focused on f*cking up the road network and destroying the Retail sector in the city centre before they get kicked out of office.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122335803#Comment_122335803

i take your point to an extent but really the distance on the long routes is not a good reason not to offer something similar to longer routes elsewhere but on a smaller scale.

they were able to do it previously dispite people paying less to use the services so now days with technology and online booking ETC there really isn't the excuse.

if the food is decent and competitively priced people would likely pay.

they aren't going to pay high prices for microwaved crap like they got later on on some routes when the hot food offerings existed.

end of the road

deleted as post didn't quote.