Communal shower

LegacyUser

Just a quick question everyone...not sure how to word this.
Here goes-I'm a gay male and I hope to join a football team in college.I'm ot out to anyone but should I be out to my new team mates because we will be sharing the same shower facilities and if they found out after they might after that I'm gay,they mightn't be too happy,not that I'd bepervin' but its how they might see it,sorry for rant.any advice or experiences of similar situation(positive/negative) appreciated,thanks

whattotdo

newtothis12345 wrote: »

Just a quick question everyone...not sure how to word this.
Here goes-I'm a gay male and I hope to join a football team in college.I'm ot out to anyone but should I be out to my new team mates because we will be sharing the same shower facilities and if they found out after they might after that I'm gay,they mightn't be too happy,not that I'd bepervin' but its how they might see it,sorry for rant.any advice or experiences of similar situation(positive/negative) appreciated,thanks

Hi there!
Firstly,I take it that your not 'out' to anyone yet.I used to play soccer myself,got on with all the lads.One training session a team mate asked me ,had I a girlfriend?,I replied,'no,I'm gay'...from then on my relationship with the team changed.After training/match they wouldn't shower until I was finished,some would even drive home covered in muck and sweat to avoid having to share a shower with me.Before,I revealed I was gay I was 'one of the lads'.
I received the odd homophobic remark but it was seeing lads wait for me to use shower on my own or sit in their car and drive off that hurt the most.
However,there are positive experiences out there,Cork hurler,Donal Og Cusack said his team mates were fine with his sexuality and so they should be.
Did I regret coming out?No because it's who I am.My opinion,is that there was no point in pretending to be someone I'm not just so others would accept me,it's not real friendship.
I won't say to you,to come out or not,it's up to you.If you do come out,whether you have a positive or negative experience depends on whether your team mates are sound or ignorant.Some others may also be gay in the team.

floggg

Well whether you come out to them or not is up to you and how you get on with them and what you are comfortable with.

You don't "owe" it to them though to tell them you are gay.

As you said, it's not like you are going to perve on them, and of they are too naive or ignorant to realise that, then they are hardly deserving of your confidences.

That said, if you feel comfortable doing it, then by all means come out to them. That will depend on how you get on with them though, and probably not something you can assess until a few weeks after joining.

If you were doing it I would recommend taking it easy in terms of who you tell just to avoid an adverse reactions. It would be easier to deal with if you could tell a few people you thought you could trust at first (and who would keep it to themselves if asked) so you would have a few people on side for support before going more public.

Hopefully that wouldn't be necessary.

I know my straight friends have no problem showering communally with me.

SaulGoodman

It will bother a few, but I think most would be fine with it.

Annasopra

newtothis12345 wrote: »

Just a quick question everyone...not sure how to word this.
Here goes-I'm a gay male and I hope to join a football team in college.I'm ot out to anyone but should I be out to my new team mates because we will be sharing the same shower facilities and if they found out after they might after that I'm gay,they mightn't be too happy,not that I'd bepervin' but its how they might see it,sorry for rant.any advice or experiences of similar situation(positive/negative) appreciated,thanks

If you are in Dublin maybe join the Dublin devils instead if you think this is a big problem

http://www.dublindevilsfc.com/

baztard

Here's my take on it OP...

If you consider yourself a second class citizen, then don't shower with your team mates.
If you consider yourself as a normal person, no different from the rest of the team then do shower with them.

I wouldn't presume them to be homophobic, and I wouldn't stop being me based on a presumption that they might be homophobic.

If you act different then your team mates (by not showering with them because you're gay) then they'll treat you different.
Act the same as any body else on the team and they'll treat you the same, gay or straight.

whattotdo

baztard wrote: »

Here's my take on it OP...


I wouldn't presume them to be homophobic, and I wouldn't stop being me based on a presumption that they might be homophobic.

If you act different then your team mates (by not showering with them because you're gay) then they'll treat you different.
Act the same as any body else on the team and they'll treat you the same, gay or straight.

I agree,it'd be unfair to presume they are homophobic.Unfortunately,the reality is,sometimes,people will treat you different on the basis of your sexuality which I found out in a very similar situation.

bodice ripper

I personally never change/shower in communal showers or changing rooms with other women. The whole reason these areas are gender specific is to avoid being ogled, right?

I mean, regardless of whether they are correct to believe so, the people using them are expecting to not be checked out. So I would rather not be there. I would never tell someone else not to use them.

1ZRed

I think the lads have said it all here and there isn't much to add.

I wouldn't tell them straight out and get in with the team and slowly and then casually let it out that you're gay. I wouldn't make a big deal of it and have it as a big coming out thing either.

They'll only treat you differently if you let them. As long as you stay the same and confident like nothing has happened, it won't be a big issue.

I have no problems showering with my mates at the gym or when I was training because I never let anything change.

Give them some credit, they're college lads and they probably won't have an issue at all with this. And if they do, they'll see you're still the same guy and get used to it. If not, it's not your problem and you shouldn't change for them.

oisindoyle

whattotdo wrote: »

Hi there!
Firstly,I take it that your not 'out' to anyone yet.I used to play soccer myself,got on with all the lads.One training session a team mate asked me ,had I a girlfriend?,I replied,'no,I'm gay'...from then on my relationship with the team changed.After training/match they wouldn't shower until I was finished,some would even drive home covered in muck and sweat to avoid having to share a shower with me.Before,I revealed I was gay I was 'one of the lads'.
I received the odd homophobic remark but it was seeing lads wait for me to use shower on my own or sit in their car and drive off that hurt the most.
However,there are positive experiences out there,Cork hurler,Donal Og Cusack said his team mates were fine with his sexuality and so they should be.
Did I regret coming out?No because it's who I am.My opinion,is that there was no point in pretending to be someone I'm not just so others would accept me,it's not real friendship.
I won't say to you,to come out or not,it's up to you.If you do come out,whether you have a positive or negative experience depends on whether your team mates are sound or ignorant.Some others may also be gay in the team.

My God your so called "friends" "team mates" really need to kop on and grow up ,Their behaviour was pathetic.

Butterface

bodice ripper wrote: »

I personally never change/shower in communal showers or changing rooms with other women. The whole reason these areas are gender specific is to avoid being ogled, right?

I mean, regardless of whether they are correct to believe so, the people using them are expecting to not be checked out. So I would rather not be there. I would never tell someone else not to use them.

I use the ladies' communal showers and changing rooms on a weekly basis. There's no way I'm going to get changed in the gym's ladies' toilets and give myself a top and tail at the sink!!

floggg

bodice ripper wrote: »

I personally never change/shower in communal showers or changing rooms with other women. The whole reason these areas are gender specific is to avoid being ogled, right?

I mean, regardless of whether they are correct to believe so, the people using them are expecting to not be checked out. So I would rather not be there. I would never tell someone else not to use them.

You could just not check the out, no?

bodice ripper

Butterface wrote: »

I use the ladies' communal showers and changing rooms on a weekly basis. There's no way I'm going to get changed in the gym's ladies' toilets and give myself a top and tail at the sink!!

nor should you. I think I am incredibly uptight and guilt ridden.

floggg wrote: »

You could just not check the out, no?

not the point. I am heavily tattooed and have the side of my head shaved. I look like a lesbian in many people's minds (and its kind of alarming regardless...). I don't want to make any one uncomfortable, and I'm happy enough to just avoid doing it.

whattotdo

oisindoyle wrote: »

My God your so called "friends" "team mates" really need to kop on and grow up ,Their behaviour was pathetic.

Very pathetic and it's one of the reason why in the Premier League you have around 400 - 500 footballers and not one of them is out as a homosexual,same can be said about Championship players etc not forgetting management and coaching staff.Which is ridiculous when you consider its a country that will legislate for gay marriage in a few years.

ongarboy

Just taking a different angle. If a gay man went into a communal shower with 10 straight women. He obviously would not have any sexual attraction to any of them. They however have the potential to be attracted to him. Would he feel comfortable knowing he could potentially be oogled? Would or should this be a deterrent to him showering naked with those women when there never will be a sexual dynamic as far as he is concerned?

Would this be similar to the situation a straight guy faces showering naked with a man he knows is gay? Certainly, the gay guy may not have the slightest bit of interest in that straight guy but the straight guy does not know that. Even if the gay guy silently fancied the straight guy and was more than able to control his urges, would it be appropriate for the straight guy to feel uncomfortable knowing that potential in such an environment?

I'm not trying to justify or defend anyone's behaviour - just speculating why it might be a dilemma.

whattotdo

Fair point Ongarboy.It's something I thought of myself tbh and it's what my coach said to me but the result would be that we would have separate showers for gay men,gay women,straight men and straight women..but that could be seen as discrimination.
so perhaps straight guys not wanting to share a shower with a gay man is not homophobic????
As you say its a dilemma.

stephen_n

It's funny, maybe because rugby is a more middle class sport and therefore more tolerant, these issues for the main part didn't exist for the warriors sharing showers with other teams. You'd get the odd guy who wouldn't shower or you could see visibly trying to get in and out quick but on the whole it never seemed to present an issue, for the teams we played against!

The original question was should he come out because he will be sharing communal showers... I don't think so. When you get to know the guys on the team well enough, you might decide to come out to them but for different reasons.
Its great that you are so sensitive to the feelings of others. I think you mentioned you are not out to anyone yet and if so, then outing yourself to the team would be big jump. Maybe come out to your close friends first.

Dwn Wth Vwls

To the OP I would say, don't make a big deal out of it. Don't make a big announcement, don't act like there's any reason for anyone to care. You're there to play football, of course you need a shower afterwards, just go about your business. If you want to come out, then do so, but don't make it about showers.

As for the debate in general, I tend to find the idea ridiculous because nobody considers bisexuals. You talk about segregating people or not showering so that nobody gets ogled... just because you think there's no gay people there, doesn't mean there's not someone bicurious/bisexual there who the fancies the arse off you. This is just something you have to accept as part of using a communal shower. You can't control other people finding you attractive, so the onus is on you to either accept it or not use the shower. It's the 21st century, let's act like it.

Caiseoipe19

I agree with assessing the situation before telling them. While we would like that we could just be completely open about who we are all of the time, without any consequences, unfortunately we as a society, are not at that stage yet. I've thought about this a lot myself as I play GAA at home. While Dónal Óg Cusack set a great example for sport's players by coming out, there is a big difference in his situation and the average joe soap player. Dónal Óg is an exceptional player. A leader. Basically, even if other players on his club team felt uncomfortable playing with him, imo they wouldn't voice a word because he is such an addition to the team, that they need him.
On the other hand, if it was a case of a player that couldn't make the starting team in their sport weren't exactly a valuable player on the panel. If a team mate had a problem with them being gay, they might be more open about their discomfort.

The difference with a GAA player coming out to his club team mates and the possibility of the OP coming out to his college team is that, generally, GAA players will have grown up together and been playing together for years. There's usually a certain bond and loyalty among team mates which, I can't imagine can be that strong when a bunch of players from all over the country come together as a team in university. I'm sure this bond grows as time passes, but in the beginning since you haven't had tie to form friendships or bonds, there would not be the same loyalty, in general, I'd imagine.

I personally use communal showers. To be honest, I don't know how many, if any know that I'm gay though. I'm certain a couple do but it's just the fact that absolutely nothing has changed in the way they treat me, that I have a few doubts. Mind you, they're a bunch of legends so I'm lucky.

There are difference between Gaelic and soccer too. In soccer if a player comes out and gets a negative reaction from team mates, the option is there for him to join another club. Granted this mightn't be a viable option, depending on your location but the option is still there if you can make it work. On the other hand, if GAA players come out and get a negative reaction from team mates, they can either just put up with it or stop playing altogether. It's one of the things that has slowed my coming out. My club and team mean have such a huge impact on my life for the past few years that I'd be gutted if I was pressurised to stop playing. I don't think it will happen but all it would take is one or two players to make take the enjoyment from playing.

Sorry for going off topic ever so slightly. Just a note, I'm not saying that any of the Cloyne or Cork players did actually have a problem with Dónal Óg. By the sounds of it, they were all sound about it but I was just using him as an example.

Dick Turnip

Would agreee with a lot of what Cygnus says there.

Just from my own experience, I play on GAA team for my home club. I dont know how many of the lads know I'm gay but a lot or probably most of them do and possibly all of them. Most would only have found out in the last year (maybe they had their suspicions before, I don't know). I can honestly say nothings changed this year. Maybe the odd person is less forthcoming with conversation but nothing major and nothing or nobody I'd lose any sleep over.

Regarding, the showers aspect. I haven't changed or noticed anything different. Sometimes I just hop in the car and have a shower at home. Other times I'll shower there. Like Cygnus said, it is slightly different with a GAA team - some of my best friends are on the team from playing the whole way through underage to now senior so there's a stronger bond there compared to a freshers college team. Hence, it wouldn't be as much of an issue possibly.

As others have pointed out, don't use the showers aspect as a reason for coming out to them. If after a while on the team, you become friends with some of the lads then consider saying it maybe. But again, say it because they're now your mates not because you feel the need to warn them.

Sir Pompous Righteousness

whattotdo wrote: »

Fair point Ongarboy.It's something I thought of myself tbh and it's what my coach said to me but the result would be that we would have separate showers for gay men,gay women,straight men and straight women..but that could be seen as discrimination.
so perhaps straight guys not wanting to share a shower with a gay man is not homophobic????
As you say its a dilemma.

Having a shower for gay men would in itself bring up further problems - such as them becoming hot spots for cruising, etc... It's like putting straight men and women into a shower together, just think of the ensuing awkwardness.

I think it's just better if it's left the way it is or just introducing more shower cubicles.

jabarrett35

Look it's none of their business, they are strangers to you after all. You've not got a communicable disease. If they learn organically over time that's ok and depending on how they deal with it then,will give you a good idea if these are sort people you want too play with. It's a college right so one should expect a certain level of sophistication with its students. It's always a good idea to make allies and this needs time.

oisindoyle

OP just because you are gay and play o na football team doesnt mean YOU HAVE to tell your team mates about your sexuality .

Your sexuality is only part of who you are .

If people start to suggest separate showers for gay people and separate ones for straights then it is truly a sad day and a step backwards .

Come out when you want to come out .

I think you are over thinking the situation as in "if I tell them i am gay what will happen when we shower"

For those straights that do have a problem with it ,so be it ,It is THEIR problem NOT yours.

A gay man in shower is there to wash (and yes probably have a quick look at others ,,lol) but thats it .

Are we still living in a world where straight guys in a shower with a gay person think that he is going to come on to them ?
They need to grow up methinks

foggy_lad

oisindoyle wrote: »

A gay man in shower is there to wash (and yes probably have a quick look at others ,,lol) but thats it .

The same as straight men so!

oisindoyle

foggy_lad wrote: »

The same as straight men so!

and so ?

foggy_lad

A sense of humour is a wonderful thing.

oisindoyle

foggy_lad wrote: »

A sense of humour is a wonderful thing.

You only came across humour now I take it ,most of us have been experienceing if for years upon years .

Annasopra

Oisin and Foggy lad - take it to pm

brownej

ongarboy wrote: »

Just taking a different angle. If a gay man went into a communal shower with 10 straight women. He obviously would not have any sexual attraction to any of them. They however have the potential to be attracted to him. Would he feel comfortable knowing he could potentially be oogled? Would or should this be a deterrent to him showering naked with those women when there never will be a sexual dynamic as far as he is concerned?

Would this be similar to the situation a straight guy faces showering naked with a man he knows is gay? Certainly, the gay guy may not have the slightest bit of interest in that straight guy but the straight guy does not know that. Even if the gay guy silently fancied the straight guy and was more than able to control his urges, would it be appropriate for the straight guy to feel uncomfortable knowing that potential in such an environment?

I'm not trying to justify or defend anyone's behaviour - just speculating why it might be a dilemma.

This is a very typical prudish Irish attitude.
In Europe the vast majority of Saunas are mixed and naked. In Ireland the majority require swimming togs to be worn. We couldn't have mixed naked saunas here cause "Sure everyone will be looking at me".

stephen_n

brownej wrote: »

This is a very typical prudish Irish attitude.
In Europe the vast majority of Saunas are mixed and naked. In Ireland the majority require swimming togs to be worn. We couldn't have mixed naked saunas here cause "Sure everyone will be looking at me".

In a lot of cases it would be the fear they weren't!

Vivara

I'm in sixth year in an all-boys school, and I'm sort-of out and have never had any problems in the changing rooms before P.E. My friend is basically completely out and no-one ever says a thing to him in the changing rooms. People talk to him shirtless and shower naked and there are no problems.

Aurongroove

I personally wouldn't for my own sake (shower with a team). but regarding the contrast of different experiences: some posters saying they've come out to team mates and now the team mates go home mucky or wait till after yet others say the team know and no one bats an eyelid.

I think like a lot of things it probably depends on the group. You could have one guy say "that guy told me he's gay, I'm not going to shower with him; gay people are always looking at your balls in the shower" and the rest of the group will do likewise, then others might say "sure what about? it;s not like he's going to rape one of us" and nothing will be different.

people are surprisingly sheep-esque when it comes to 'surprise' sexual issues like this one and often your group's reaction will in fact stem from one influential member who more or less sets the tone for how the group react to you're homosexuality.

suicide_circus

Not gay but i never really showered in the communal showers as i would generally cycle home and just get sweaty again so no point. I say let your football do the talking. Youre there to play, not there to gay.

1ZRed

suicide_circus wrote: »

Not gay but i never really showered in the communal showers as i would generally cycle home and just get sweaty again so no point. I say let your football do the talking. Youre there to play, not there to gay.

Hah! I like that

But talk about not leaving the lad any opportunities at all :pac:

suicide_circus

1ZRed wrote: »

Hah! I like that

But talk about not leaving the lad any opportunities at all :pac:

not to worry, a good player always takes his scoring opportunities

Aurongroove

Sounds like something Rainier Wolfcastle would say