Kenpo in a street fight

Crann na Beatha

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cowzerp

Because boxing is a viscous sport that is trained with aliveness.

Kenpo is full of silly moves that don't work and it's not trained against fully resisting opponents.

jigglypuffstuff

cowzerp wrote: »

Kenpo is full of silly moves that don't work and it's not trained against fully resisting opponents.

Im calling B.S on that...Ive been doing kenpo 8 years..2nd degree brown belt and ive used it on more than a few occasions....and also from training i can assure you we hit very hard....(ive sustained numerous injury from what my instructor calls '''conditioning''....although alot of clubs ive visited dont practice this.... In one instance I completley wiped the floor with a boxer who from what i heard after was pretty well decorated (within reason)..and this was a real fight not sparring which he instigated...i weight 70 kg and have often restrained guys up in the 85kg category..that being said outside of karate I train 12 times per week in resistance and cardio..but i dont think that relates to the system directly.

With that being said the system isnt without its flaws...The basis of the techniques are to set in the ''ideal phase'' where the reactions to the strikes are pre-determined..this i believe is wrong as I always prepare for the ''what if'' phase....no 2 people react the same......I think if more emphasis was placed here then people would view the system differenty...

I have yet to spar or fight against a boxer who does not leave his centre line open to attack....In the ring boxing is very effective as there are set rules....but on the street a martial art is better imho..the people that can withstand a trained martial artists kick to the groin are very few!....not to mention the the follow up to this.

I can definatley agree there are some silly aspects to kenpo..things which I often question and choose to ignore..but if utilized correctly it is as effective and deadly as any other martial art!!!

Civilian Personal Protection

Depends on the scenario to be honest Aquila.

i'm not trained in boxing like Paul. Havn't experienced Kenpo either. i'm a firm believer though that all combat expressions have their place. If put into the right context, and adapted the right way.

warmest wishes

Wayne

yomchi

Aquila wrote: »

Can anyone give reasons why Kenpo isnt as effective as boxing in a street fight scenario?

Same reason many other MA's are no good, having said that it's not what you train it's how train it - and boxing training is as solid as it's going to get. Any MA that trains it's people to knock someone the fcuk out is always going to be 'the' better system of training.

One problem I see with Kenpo and any other art that tries to teach many many different responses to one type of attack is of course Hick's Law.

By the time you have made your decision in what we to react, a good boxer will have knocked you the fcuk out already.

cowzerp

pone2012 wrote: »

Im calling B.S on that...Ive been doing kenpo 8 years..2nd degree brown belt and ive used it on more than a few occasions....and also from training i can assure you we hit very hard....(ive sustained numerous injury from what my instructor calls '''conditioning''....although alot of clubs ive visited dont practice this.... In one instance I completley wiped the floor with a boxer who from what i heard after was pretty well decorated (within reason)..and this was a real fight not sparring which he instigated...i weight 70 kg and have often restrained guys up in the 85kg category..that being said outside of karate I train 12 times per week in resistance and cardio..but i dont think that relates to the system directly.

!!

Yeah that's why so many UFC fighters train kenpo for their stand up-or maybe it's so good on the street it's to dangerous for the cage.

jigglypuffstuff

yomchi wrote: »

One problem I see with Kenpo and any other art that tries to teach many many different responses to one type of attack is of course Hick's Law.

By the time you have made your decision in what we to react, a good boxer will have knocked you the fcuk out already.

Interesting point...however if i may add..you will notice in kenpo that 99% of the defenses against punches are against step through....which of course is extremely dated and renders the actual technique (not the movement as it can be adapted given the circumstances) more or less useless...against a ''boxers'' punch..at my level we have three...one to be used when you cannot step back...one if its a jab followed by a punch and one just basic..of course as i have stated previously i am always thinking of the what if as opposed to the ideal scenario...so in my head there's only one id use..just speaking from experience is all not trying to defend..i hope nobody picks me up wrong..if im honest im always criticizing the whole ''ideal'' system:mad:

jigglypuffstuff

cowzerp wrote: »

Yeah that's why so many UFC fighters train kenpo for their stand up-or maybe it's so good on the street it's to dangerous for the cage.

Zane Fraser
Kieth Hackney
Jason Delucia
Bart Vale
Chuck Lidell

a quick google search revealed these names

Maybe you dont know (open to correction) that kenpo can be broken into 4 sections , Forms, sets, techniques and most important Freestyle

Freestyle is the actual basic art itself e.g punches kicks elbows knees etc....anyone that is well schooled and trains properly in the basics should be able to stand toe to toe with a boxer...In certain scenarios e.g in the case of a street fight may even hold and advantage as they have far more trained weapons at their disposal : arms legs elbows knees..whereas the boxer has only his arms trained to attack..

I know when I was in the position of fighting a boxer he did not see the kick to the groin coming..but that was my initial reaction....then again the main aim of their training is not to protect themselves.

Peetrik

The strange thing about Boxing, in my humble opinion, is that there are better arts, arts that make use of other just as effective limbs (knees, elbows, etc) what makes Boxing consistantly effective is that peoples livelihoods depend on the techniques being effective. There is big money in Boxing. If something doesn't work its discarded and if it does they train the crap out of it again and again. Obviously it depends from club to club but Boxing is fairly consistently trained effectively which gives boxing a good name as being effective as a martial art.

I rate Boxing ahead of many other martial arts because of this

cowzerp

Zane Fraser was also a kickboxer too, and not a good Mma fighter anyway.

Kieth Hackney Was also a boxer And wrestler who had black belt in tae kwon do before he even looked at kenpo

Jason Delucia studied Kung fu and aikido

Bart Vale Another fighter from the early Mma scene and also a shoot fighter which is very grappling orientated

Chuck Lidell Wrestler and kickboxing who's main focus was boxing, also I'm pretty sure the kenpo he trained was Kempo and not ed parkers kenpo

a quick google search revealed these names.

Out of all the names they are all from years gone by and not very good either bar chuck who didn't even study kenpo, I trained kenpo and even as a 12 year old knew it was ineffective and the blocking etc would get you slaughtered.

I've never met a kenpo practitioner who would be able to fight to any decent level using kenpo, I do know some hard men who done kenpo but these lads would be tough if they only done tiddlywinks

bill buchanan

There's a difference in "not being effective" and "not being the most effective".

I'm sure somebody who has a high level at kempo with years of heavy sparring behind them will be better equipped for a fight than an awful lot of the population.

*anecdote alert* I know one guy who got himself out of a very bad situation by using his kenpo (brown belt). I also know someone who got out of a mugging using their TKD (2nd degree BB) but took a few punches in the process.

Is MMA more effective? yes. But by learning to strike and be striked, while getting fit, regardless of style, you're probably helping your chances if you ever end up in a rumble. Having said that, regardless of expertise in MA, very few of people are experts in (or even know more than the avergage joe about) street fighting.

cowzerp

bill buchanan wrote: »

Is MMA more effective? yes. But by learning to strike and be striked, while getting fit, regardless of style, you're probably helping your chances if you ever end up in a rumble. Having said that, regardless of expertise in MA, very few of people are experts in (or even know more than the avergage joe about) street fighting.

If some untrained lad walks in and spars a competent MMA fighter or boxer in training and the fighter does not hold back, in most cases it would be a quick finish, no different on the street, when you think illegal techniques that can be used on the street I can guarantee that a sports based art will be more effective at using these techniques if they chose to, why? because they train to hit people fast hard and against opponents genuinely resisting, and not with the wax on wax off blocking used in kenpo.

bill buchanan

cowzerp wrote: »

If some untrained lad walks in and spars a competent MMA fighter or boxer in training and the fighter does not hold back, in most cases it would be a quick finish, no different on the street, when you think illegal techniques that can be used on the street I can guarantee that a sports based art will be more effective at using these techniques if they chose to, why? because they train to hit people fast hard and against opponents genuinely resisting, and not with the wax on wax off blocking used in kenpo.

So the kenpo guy is allowed to use "illegal" techniques too?

I'm assuming neither of us are expert in street fighting. But to my simple mind, the only difference between the kenpo BB, for example, and his non trained opponent is that the kenpo guy will have learned to strike and learned to take a hit. They are also likely, though not in all cases, to have reasonable CV fitness.

I don't see how that does anything but give an advantage.

jigglypuffstuff

cowzerp wrote: »

because they train to hit people fast hard and against opponents genuinely resisting, and not with the wax on wax off blocking used in kenpo.

parrying is effective only when its done right and the person actually knows how to do it..not just barely flailing there arms about..there is a technique to it and kenpo isnt the only system to use it

For that matter you seem to think that every club trains the same...let me give you an example...there are 4 senior brown belts in my club and one black belt and that is all no others. Anyone that ever joins usually leaves because of our intensity level....we do not hold back and we hit each other hard. if you get hit in the face or anywhere else its your own fault

Our view is if you don't train like your going to be attacked then when the time comes you wont react like you should. We have a reputation as a hard hitting club and people generally don't visit because of this. So what makes you think all clubs train in what we call ''surface hitting'' ??. Perhaps many of the ones you visited/ attended hit like this. I can assure you were not all the same.

bill buchanan wrote: »

So the kenpo guy is allowed to use "illegal" techniques too?

I'm assuming neither of us are expert in street fighting. But to my simple mind, the only difference between the kenpo BB, for example, and his non trained opponent is that the kenpo guy will have learned to strike and learned to take a hit. They are also likely, though not in all cases, to have reasonable CV fitness.

I don't see how that does anything but give an advantage.

That can be applied to any art. How does a boxer defend against a bjj. very simple he doesnt. If he goes down he's in major trouble.

Id also like to state that im starting TKD soon too...because as i said previous i am aware the kenpo system isnt perfect. For that matter there is no discipline that is. Boxing mma kickboxing judo bjj tkd kenpo they all have flaws

cowzerp

pone2012 wrote: »

parrying is effective only when its done right and the person actually knows how to do it..not just barely flailing there arms about..there is a technique to it and kenpo isnt the only system to use it

For that matter you seem to think that every club trains the same...let me give you an example...there are 4 senior brown belts in my club and one black belt and that is all no others. Anyone that ever joins usually leaves because of our intensity level....we do not hold back and we hit each other hard. if you get hit in the face or anywhere else its your own fault

Our view is if you don't train like your going to be attacked then when the time comes you wont react like you should. We have a reputation as a hard hitting club and people generally don't visit because of this. So what makes you think all clubs train in what we call ''surface hitting'' ??. Perhaps many of the ones you visited/ attended hit like this. I can assure you were not all the same.

Ok, if what you say is true then your training sounds decent-this is not the norm for kenpo-effective realistic training is always the norm for boxing.

So with that said it does not sound like I'm debating with you based on standard kenp as what you do is not the norm.

jigglypuffstuff

cowzerp wrote: »

Ok, if what you say is true then your training sounds decent-this is not the norm for kenpo-effective realistic training is always the norm for boxing.

So with that said it does not sound like I'm debating with you based on standard kenp as what you do is not the norm.

I agree 100% that most clubs hit very tamely and would be tore limb from limb in a bad situation. i regularly visit other clubs in some when sparring time comes the others don't like fighting at all.

Of course we use some restraint in sparring ( we dont try to kill each other) but its as intense as any others ive done kickboxing etc & there's often injuries. After i got my brown belt i had to bulk up from 136lbs up to 160lbs cause the hits were seriously taking their toll on me. now sitting at 155lbs

Even though I train in the system Im very against the kenpo system in the way that they think a persons reaction when their hit can be predicted..when it clearly cannot. This is what draws me towards TKD at the moment.

Peetrik

pone2012 wrote: »

Even though I train in the system Im very against the kenpo system in the way that they think a persons reaction when their hit can be predicted..when it clearly cannot. This is what draws me towards TKD at the moment.

Baffled by this personally, if you're looking for hard sparring without the nonsense they why not do striking for MMA or Thai, any TKD I've experienced has been much more akin to Kenpo than the type of full contact sparring you are describing.

jigglypuffstuff

Peetrik wrote: »

Baffled by this personally, if you're looking for hard sparring without the nonsense they why not do striking for MMA or Thai, any TKD I've experienced has been much more akin to Kenpo than the type of full contact sparring you are describing.

No I think I should have explained myself better. Our sparring is already hard enough. My problem is with the self defense techniques they teach.

I will demonstrate with a simple video (skip to 2.35)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSP38TAzDSM&feature=related


Now lets just assume that was a proper punch and not a step through. Everything pretty much works until just after the knee shot. If you try to hold someone over you knee they will clearly escape. My own alternative to this is just after you grab the trap muscles and take their balance is to lock a proper sleeper onto the opponent ( taking both jugular veins). they'll last about 3-5 seconds if there lucky

The answer I posed when asked as to why i didn't do the ''correct'' technique at my last grading was that I did not see the point in giving the attacker any chance to escape or counter the move. Needless to say I was not wrong.

Is my problem with the system clearer now?? it would be ideal if the person would stay on your knee..but we all know that wont happen. Thats why when I train., I train for realistic situations:) not ones that would be the best possible scenario:mad:

Peetrik

Ah ok... now I understand why you want to do TKD

jigglypuffstuff

Peetrik wrote: »

Ah ok... now I understand why you want to do TKD

The reason i want to do TKD is ive always been interested..and to be fair they can generate wicked power....but im not interested in that olympic style. I think at some stage ill do some bjj too

Im just a martial arts lover..but rather than do mma id prefer to train in the arts separate .I wouldn't be getting into cage fighting so i dont see the need to do mma...does anyone in this thread do mma?? if so what mixture of arts do they train in??

RoboRat

I done Kenpo when I was younger and I got suspended for striking another student whilst sparring. The reason for my suspension; I wasn't hitting like I was supposed to??!

I didn't bother going back.

Im just a martial arts lover..but rather than do mma id prefer to train in the arts separate .I wouldn't be getting into cage fighting so i dont see the need to do mma...does anyone in this thread do mma?? if so what mixture of arts do they train in??

I used to do MMA and I really like it but I have a good grounding in a few different forms having done Kenpo, Bushido, Judo, Muay Thai, Boxing and BJJ. For MMA training we would focus on striking and BJJ NoGi but I have no intention of fighting in the cage and I feel my stand up is pretty solid, so I have turned my attention to BJJ to improve my grappling and ground game.

yomchi

Peetrik wrote: »

Baffled by this personally, if you're looking for hard sparring without the nonsense they why not do striking for MMA or Thai, any TKD I've experienced has been much more akin to Kenpo than the type of full contact sparring you are describing.

Don't tar us all with the same brush
My TKD guys are doing well crossing over into the full contact arena at the moment. Again, it's about how we train. some TKD purists will say 'ah sure he's only only doing kickboxing anyway not real tkd' - but functional training is the objective for us as opposed to the preservation of archaic training methods.

Peetrik

EDIT: double post

Peetrik

yomchi wrote: »

Again, it's about how we train.

Didn't mean to Yomchi, I agree 100% it depends on how its trained, just the only TKD I've experienced was all standing in lines punching the air and making sure not to make contact with more than the cushioning on the gloves or pads.
I'm sure it varys club to club

Civilian Personal Protection

Peetrik wrote: »

Baffled by this personally, if you're looking for hard sparring without the nonsense they why not do striking for MMA or Thai, any TKD I've experienced has been much more akin to Kenpo than the type of full contact sparring you are describing.

i left TKD cos i was going from one end of the hall to the other performing techniques that were over-complicated for the street. I felt like a prat.

in this context, i always preferred Muay Thai.

MMA - no.

Difference i'm making is no point in training for the street in any way if that way is training to stay horizontal on the ground. Too prone.

I'm biased. I got knocked out with a boot to my forehead in the street. And that was with me on top of the guys mate. Only for passing motorists getting involved i wudda been F***ed.

To be fair though, a distinction should be made between training completely in a system - as opposed to training in specific parts for the street. Adaptions and context specific is key.

warmest wishes

Wayne

jigglypuffstuff

To Follow up on this..ive attended a few classes of tkd and while i can say the footwork does impress me,,,the training is based around speed & sport and is indeed a far cry from the intensity im used to...so ive decided to look at a completley different art...Either Hapkido or Tang Soo Doo

arybvtcw0eolkf

I rarely involve myself in these discussions any longer, they're usually a collection of pretty pointless arguments based on no real experience of 'the street' (I cringe when I use/read that term).

I've over twenty years door work experience, and have trained in various styles over the years (btw I'm still 'on the doors') and when asked the question in person 'whats best for the street' my immediate answer is MMA, Muay Thai or boxing ~ in my experience no other style prepares you to take a few to give a few like either MMA, Muay Thai or boxing.

If someone doesn't like the rough and tumble of either of those styles I advise them to look around their area and find something which clicks with you and train it for its enjoyment and forget about 'the street'.

'The street' ~ lets me honest, outside of the school yard or fields after school and failing yo uwork in the security industry most people will never need to prepare for 'the street', and in my experience there is not one style or club which can prepare you for or train you in violence, but MMA, muay thai or boxing will certainly turn out a tougher fighter than almost any other style.

Jason McCabe

Let's be honest the worstperson you could meet in a street fight is someone from a good Mma gym

Its about as complete as you can get

jigglypuffstuff

Maryam Gray Knickers wrote: »

Ibut MMA, muay thai or boxing will certainly turn out a tougher fighter than almost any other style.

look if we were to get into the nitty gritty any style can be deadly...one of the first things you learn in kenpo is a half fist strike..correctly execute this technique to the throat and i dont care if your a 20 stone doorman or a champion mma fighter... you will be in serious trouble...a system is only as good as the person that uses it..there a good boxers that would own a bad tkd guy and good kenpoists that would rip an average mma guy apart..its all down to the individual

Jason McCabe wrote: »

Let's be honest the worstperson you could meet in a street fight is someone from a good Mma gym

Its about as complete as you can get

ive seen so many mma guys to to the ground on the street and get the face completely booted off them...more than a few hospitalised..not being bias here ive seen it...

cowzerp

pone2012 wrote: »

.there a good boxers that would own a bad tkd guy and good kenpoists that would rip an average mma guy apart..its all down to the individual
.

good boxers beat bad tkd lads!! No way

And you don't know any good kenpoist who would destroy an average Mma guy.

jigglypuffstuff

cowzerp wrote: »

good boxers beat bad tkd lads!! No way

And you don't know any good kenpoist who would destroy an average Mma guy.

Actually I do..theres an mma club in my town...i can safely say I know kenpoists that would rip them a new one.... And vice versa also there were are very tough dudes there...point being its down to the individual and their training....any style can be extremely effective given the individual's training is correct....I think you've just seen to many surface hitters and formed an opinion based on them imho..

cowzerp

pone2012 wrote: »

Actually I do..theres an mma club in my town...i can safely say I know kenpoists that would rip them a new one.... And vice versa also there were are very tough dudes there...point being its down to the individual and their training....any style can be extremely effective given the individual's training is correct....I think you've just seen to many surface hitters and formed an opinion based on them imho..

What's this Mma club? Could this be 1 of these sham clubs ran by traditional martial artist that just call themselves Mma? If not I simply call BS.

Any of my average amateur students would have no problem dealing with and kenpo martial arts fella, of course the individual counts but then your tslki g about a tough dude and not the system. I know tough dudes who are untrained but they still lose to average Mma people badly.

jigglypuffstuff

cowzerp wrote: »

What's this Mma club? Could this be 1 of these sham clubs ran by traditional martial artist that just call themselves Mma? If not I simply call BS.

Any of my average amateur students would have no problem dealing with and kenpo martial arts fella, of course the individual counts but then your tslki g about a tough dude and not the system. I know tough dudes who are untrained but they still lose to average Mma people badly.

Well its in Cappawhite in co Tipperary..but Ive seen a few more when Ive traveled also... I would not personally be scared about fighting an mma fighter..then again i train every day and most days twice a day so im in the minority..most in my system would not like the idea at all

i.e your not gonna be wearing a cup on the street or if you get a punch to the throat no referee is gonna be there to stop it...,,unless you go around kicking your students in the nuts and hitting their throats each session im sure there gonna run into some sort problems if the pick a fight with a properly trained martial artist ..not some clown who flails his hands about hoping for the best...and naturally the same goes for vice versa..

I understand that you've seen some pretty wasteful attempts at martial arts...but as previously stated in this thread don't tar us all with the same brush!!

there are some like myself who take it very seriously. For me its the reason i train everyday, the reason i eat so well, the reason i don't drink etc...thats not the case for most people though..and I can perfectly understand why and how your opinion was formed

cowzerp

pone2012 wrote: »

i.e your not gonna be wearing a cup on the street or if you get a punch to the throat no referee is gonna be there to stop it...,,unless you go around kicking your students in the nuts and hitting their throats each session im sure there gonna run into some sort problems if the pick a fight with a properly trained martial artist ..not some clown who flails his hands about hoping for the best...and naturally the same goes for vice versa..

This bit is funny, same lack of rules apply both ways and I can guarantee you that the lad who trains combat sports and spars against resistance would have more chance of using such techniques.

It's ok to call time out in cage when nuts are sore but when the going gets tough fighters would man up and get on with it

I believe you think you could beat an average Mma fighters but this is the worst part of your debate, you have false faith in your art and as far as I know the club in Tipperary has never competed and is a new club do would be full of beginners.

Peetrik

pone2012 wrote: »

there are some like myself who take it very seriously. For me its the reason i train everyday, the reason i eat so well, the reason i don't drink etc...thats not the case for most people though..and I can perfectly understand why and how your opinion was formed

A reason why a lot of people would favor an MMA guy over a Kenpo guy is because of the way MMA is trained and the breakdown of the class time.
Also a decent sized MMA gym could have 5-10 (depending on the size of the club) professional fighters who compete regularly that are also down every night for heavy sparring that are bringing up the level of all the other club members.

So sure, you can be training twice a day 5-6 days a week and sparring as heavy as your club mates can take but at the end of the day its unlikely that you're in the same environment that the average MMA guy is in.

jigglypuffstuff

cowzerp wrote: »

pone2012 wrote: »

i.e your not gonna be wearing a cup on the street or if you get a punch to the throat no referee is gonna be there to stop it...,,unless you go around kicking your students in the nuts and hitting their throats each session im sure there gonna run into some sort problems if the pick a fight with a properly trained martial artist ..not some clown who flails his hands about hoping for the best...and naturally the same goes for vice versa..

This bit is funny, same lack of rules apply both ways and I can guarantee you that the lad who trains combat sports and spars against resistance would have more chance of using such techniques.

It's ok to call time out in cage when nuts are sore but when the going gets tough fighters would man up and get on with it

I believe you think you could beat an average Mma fighters but this is the worst part of your debate, you have false faith in your art and as far as I know the club in Tipperary has never competed and is a new club do would be full of beginners.

I think false faith is mistaken... I've been in a few fights in my younger days and I've yet to come out really badly off...but I don't train for a cage and never have ..... the last guy I did encounter I just put into a sleeper and left him there...the last full contact spar I was is I took several shots to the nuts..7 I think as I had my opponent in a headlock ...I didn't break the hold until he tapped..I'd no guard on either and I was in pain for several days after...does that count as enough resistance in your eyes??

The same lack of rules don't exactly apply....do you teach your students throat strikes bone breaks nervous system etc??...we train with resistance...hell my toe was dislocated last Friday before I even started and I still got on with it...what's your point?? Because you've seen some surface hitters that train at about 30% you'll form an opinion based on that ?? I'm not trying to sound smart or anything...but you seem hellbent that mma is the most effective...you know quite a few martial artists cross train to but aren't involved in mma...and the principle is the same!!

jigglypuffstuff

cowzerp wrote: »

pone2012 wrote: »

i.e your not gonna be wearing a cup on the street or if you get a punch to the throat no referee is gonna be there to stop it...,,unless you go around kicking your students in the nuts and hitting their throats each session im sure there gonna run into some sort problems if the pick a fight with a properly trained martial artist ..not some clown who flails his hands about hoping for the best...and naturally the same goes for vice versa..

This bit is funny, same lack of rules apply both ways and I can guarantee you that the lad who trains combat sports and spars against resistance would have more chance of using such techniques.

It's ok to call time out in cage when nuts are sore but when the going gets tough fighters would man up and get on with it

I believe you think you could beat an average Mma fighters but this is the worst part of your debate, you have false faith in your art and as far as I know the club in Tipperary has never competed and is a new club do would be full of beginners.

I think false faith is mistaken... I've been in a few fights in my younger days and I've yet to come out really badly off...but I don't train for a cage and never have ..... the last guy I did encounter I just put into a sleeper and left him there...the last full contact spar I was is I took several shots to the nuts..7 I think as I had my opponent in a headlock ...I didn't break the hold until he tapped..I'd no guard on either and I was in pain for several days after...does that count as enough resistance in your eyes??

The same lack of rules don't exactly apply....do you teach your students throat strikes bone breaks nervous system etc??...we train with resistance...hell my toe was dislocated last Friday before I even started and I still got on with it...what's your point?? Because you've seen some surface hitters that train at about 30% you'll form an opinion based on that ?? I'm not trying to sound smart or anything...but you seem hellbent that mma is the most effective...you know quite a few martial artists cross train to but aren't involved in mma...and the principle is the same!!

arybvtcw0eolkf

pone2012 wrote: »

ive seen so many mma guys to to the ground on the street and get the face completely booted off them...more than a few hospitalised..not being bias here ive seen it...

As I said, I rarely get into these discussions any longer so I'm not going to begin again with you.. Except to ask you to stop spoofing in this thread, and that's it ~ give it over.

cowzerp

pone2012 wrote: »

I think false faith is mistaken... I've been in a few fights in my younger days and I've yet to come out really badly off...but I don't train for a cage and never have ..... the last guy I did encounter I just put into a sleeper and left him there...the last full contact spar I was is I took several shots to the nuts..7 I think as I had my opponent in a headlock ...I didn't break the hold until he tapped..I'd no guard on either and I was in pain for several days after...does that count as enough resistance in your eyes??

The same lack of rules don't exactly apply....do you teach your students throat strikes bone breaks nervous system etc??

So you practise throat strikes with resistance i assume!! No actually you don't so you know as much about these as i do in the real world, landing a throat strike against a live opponent who is punching you, clinching you and kneeing you to bits picking you up and dropping you on your head is not the same as your mate standing there while you pretend to throat strike him.

Your been able to take the groin strikes just proves what i am saying, they are not fight finishers in a potential life and death situation

pone2012 wrote: »

Because you've seen some surface hitters that train at about 30% you'll form an opinion based on that ?? I'm not trying to sound smart or anything...but you seem hellbent that mma is the most effective...you know quite a few martial artists cross train to but aren't involved in mma...and the principle is the same!!

The system is not effective, even kenpo trained with resistance won't work, punching from your hip etc, stand in a horse stance in front of me and see how you get on!!

In Kenpo terms you may be tough, problem is your comparing yourself to Kata black belts who could not fight if some random muppet started on them.

MMA as a system done right means you should be efficient in all areas, Striking, Clinch and on the ground-Kenpo will not cover any of these to a high level.

jigglypuffstuff

Maryam Gray Knickers wrote: »

pone2012 wrote: »

ive seen so many mma guys to to the ground on the street and get the face completely booted off them...more than a few hospitalised..not being bias here ive seen it...

As I said, I rarely get into these discussions any longer so I'm not going to begin again with you.. Except to ask you to stop spoofing in this thread, and that's it ~ give it over.

I'm by no means lying .. to be fair were jumped by a gang of scumbags....they were friends of friends and my friends took them to cuh after it..they'd both been training about 5 months...few stitches no big deal. I've no reason to lie..,it's of absolutey no benefit to me... I enjoy mma...I think it's highly entertaining and I'll most likely train in it sometime down the line...

I'm going to bow out of this discussion as I think it's gone way to far off the point and I may be wrong but seems like it's getting slightly heated.... .also apologies if anyone thinks I'm making up things...I have honestly not .. if most will notice the very first thing I did was criticise kenpo in many ways.

Anyway I'm gonna leave it at that...best wishes to you all!!

jigglypuffstuff

Maryam Gray Knickers wrote: »

pone2012 wrote: »

ive seen so many mma guys to to the ground on the street and get the face completely booted off them...more than a few hospitalised..not being bias here ive seen it...

As I said, I rarely get into these discussions any longer so I'm not going to begin again with you.. Except to ask you to stop spoofing in this thread, and that's it ~ give it over.

I'm by no means lying .. to be fair were jumped by a gang of scumbags....they were friends of friends and my friends took them to cuh after it..they'd both been training about 5 months...few stitches no big deal. I've no reason to lie..,it's of absolutey no benefit to me... I enjoy mma...I think it's highly entertaining and I'll most likely train in it sometime down the line...

I'm going to bow out of this discussion as I think it's gone way to far off the point and I may be wrong but seems like it's getting slightly heated.... .also apologies if anyone thinks I'm making up things...I have honestly not .. if most will notice the very first thing I did was criticise kenpo in many ways.

Just to state ...I think the only time ever performed punches from the waist in a training horse stance was at a grading.. we dont train like this at all..Regardless of anyone's martial arts experience i would imagine it common sense that one would never try and actually throw a punch from your waist in a horse stance...that would get anyone killed...this is what ive been trying to say...we do not train like this at all.... we train in a proper fighting stance..jabs cross hooks uppercuts etc

Anyway I'm gonna leave it at that...best wishes to you all!!

Kungfu

Huh? Boxing is sport! Rules: no strikes below the belt, no kicks, no sweeps, no takedowns, no trips, no throws. Powerful punches, that's true but then that is all that is worked on, and they can take a punch, because that is all that is worked on. Just keep away from those punches and don't target those areas conditioned to take such punches. Attack all targets from the beltline down. Groin, knees, shins, calves, ankles, feet. Use sweeps and takedowns. Conventional Western boxing doesn't train to defend against such forms of attack or against kicks. Or for that matter against anything that is not allowed in the sport of boxing. The boxer has a powerful, solid punch but no kicks, or sweeps or takedowns. No pressure point attacks. No joint locks. And unlike many of the martial arts (but not all) the boxer does not learn how to defend against weapons. Don't underestimate the traditional martial arts, many of which were developed for use on the battlefield an/or to defend against attack by bandits etc on the road or for purposes of assassination. Kung fu styles such as Choy Lay Fut and other Arts such as Tae Kwondo, Ninjitsu, Muay Thai etc were design for effectiveness. Not as sports, even though they may been used in sporting tournament.

Kungfu

Only just read some of the stuff wriiten here in this thread. Wish I had read it all before replying. Wouldn't have bothered if I had. A bunch of armchair martial artists just trying to score points off each other. This is supposed to be a forum. Not a bitching session. Now why don't you all have a nice cup of coacoa and get back to your knitting. Martial Artists? Martial Asses more like! Moan, moan, moan, whine, whine, whine....Have you got nothing better to do? Like training for example?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Kungfu wrote: »

Only just read some of the stuff wriiten here in this thread. Wish I had read it all before replying. Wouldn't have bothered if I had. A bunch of armchair martial artists just trying to score points off each other. This is supposed to be a forum. Not a bitching session. Now why don't you all have a nice cup of coacoa and get back to your knitting. Martial Artists? Martial Asses more like! Moan, moan, moan, whine, whine, whine....Have you got nothing better to do? Like training for example?

If thats how you feel about this forum you won't mind if I give you a pretty long break from it the next time you go on such a rant and try offend this forum's subscribers.

In the mean time, in the mean time pull in your rains and have a little more respect.

cowzerp

Kungfu wrote: »

Huh? Boxing is sport! Rules: no strikes below the belt, no kicks, no sweeps, no takedowns, no trips, no throws. Powerful punches, that's true but then that is all that is worked on, and they can take a punch, because that is all that is worked on. Just keep away from those punches and don't target those areas conditioned to take such punches. Attack all targets from the beltline down. Groin, knees, shins, calves, ankles, feet. Use sweeps and takedowns. Conventional Western boxing doesn't train to defend against such forms of attack or against kicks. Or for that matter against anything that is not allowed in the sport of boxing. The boxer has a powerful, solid punch but no kicks, or sweeps or takedowns. No pressure point attacks. No joint locks. And unlike many of the martial arts (but not all) the boxer does not learn how to defend against weapons. Don't underestimate the traditional martial arts, many of which were developed for use on the battlefield an/or to defend against attack by bandits etc on the road or for purposes of assassination. Kung fu styles such as Choy Lay Fut and other Arts such as Tae Kwondo, Ninjitsu, Muay Thai etc were design for effectiveness. Not as sports, even though they may been used in sporting tournament.

That made me lol, is your name Walter by any chance?!

Crann na Beatha

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