Captains and Presidents, same year

Maclock

Hi guys. Just wondering if these 2 competitions were ever won by one person in the same year at your club?
It was done in our club this year and i'm interested to see if it's a common occurrence?

f22

Was done in my own club (Forrest Little) 2 years ago, same chap won the captains again this year.

Maclock

f22 wrote: »

Was done in my own club (Forrest Little) 2 years ago, same chap won the captains again this year.

What was he playing off of?
The guy in our place was off 2.

big_drive

Happened in my club in 2010. Guy off 22 for capts. Was off 18 later in summer for presidents.

Turned out to be not well received in club. Same guy won a lot of Fourballs/team events during the summer. Raised a lot of questions about his handicap

I saw in paper during the week it was done this year in Lee Valley. What was even more impressive was the player scored 45 pts off 2 !!!

big_drive

Maclock wrote: »

What was he playing off of?
The guy in our place was off 2.

Just realized you must be lee valley after I posted my last message. That was an impressive 45 pts in ye're place

Maclock

big_drive wrote: »

Just realized you must be lee valley after I posted my last message. That was an impressive 45 pts in ye're place

Anything over 40 is a good score in Lee Valley these days as the course is getting much tougher to play.
The rough up there at the moment is unreal, miss the fairway by 2 inches and the ball is buried. I think that's a bit unfair.

f22

Maclock wrote: »

What was he playing off of?
The guy in our place was off 2.

Single figures, he's around 6 now

GreeBo

Maclock wrote: »

Anything over 40 is a good score in Lee Valley these days as the course is getting much tougher to play.
The rough up there at the moment is unreal, miss the fairway by 2 inches and the ball is buried. I think that's a bit unfair.

Whats the standard scratch and usual CSS?
36 points is supposed to be a good score on every course

Maclock

GreeBo wrote: »

Whats the standard scratch and usual CSS?
36 points is supposed to be a good score on every course

I'll go again, anything over 40 is a brilliant score and anything around 36/37 is a great score:D
Standard scratch off white markers is 37, blues is 36.
CSS can vary off both tees quiet a lot. Anything from 38 to 33.
As for 36 being a good score in any course, i know in east cork that 39 is usually css and sometimes scoring 38 can get you a point 1 back.

soundsham

It wouldn't have been your good self by any chance ??

GreeBo

Maclock wrote: »

I'll go again, anything over 40 is a brilliant score and anything around 36/37 is a great score:D
Standard scratch off white markers is 37, blues is 36.
CSS can vary off both tees quiet a lot. Anything from 38 to 33.

That still doesnt make sense. You said that since the course is now playing much tougher that 40 points is a good score...what used to be a good score, 50?

soundsham

GreeBo wrote: »

Maclock wrote: »

I'll go again, anything over 40 is a brilliant score and anything around 36/37 is a great score:D
Standard scratch off white markers is 37, blues is 36.
CSS can vary off both tees quiet a lot. Anything from 38 to 33.

That still doesnt make sense. You said that since the course is now playing much tougher that 40 points is a good score...what used to be a good score, 50?

Just speculating but asking was 50 pts a good score previously seems a little silly

Maybe 40 pts wins now where 42/43 or so was needed before probably due to the fact the ball isn't running out on any course now

Played blarney on sat myself and this is close to lee valley but a lot higher and couldn't believe how soft it was ,drives were stopping where they pitched,
I was told 38 pts won the pres prize there'd the week previous.....

ssbob

soundsham wrote: »

Played blarney on sat myself and this is close to lee valley but a lot higher and couldn't believe how soft it was ,drives were stopping where they pitched,
I was told 38 pts won the pres prize there'd the week previous.....

Played in the presidents prize myself and 38 was a brilliant score on the weekend as the course was playing soft with really tucked pins and off the blues.

Played Blarney yesterday and what a difference a few nice days make, bunkers were in great condition bar 1(FW bunker on hole 6), all casual water had subsided and we were finally getting run on our drives!

onlyfinewine

GreeBo wrote: »

Whats the standard scratch and usual CSS?
36 points is supposed to be a good score on every course

As standard scratch can vary from plus or minus 2 or even 3 shots versus par and the competition standard scratch score can be adjusted by up to another 3 shots, again plus or minus, I cannot make out how you come to the wrong conclusion that 36 points is supposed to be a good score?
Playing to your handicap, which I suppose means beating or equaling competition standard scratch on the day would probably be a better measure.
Your suggestion of 50 points was, I hope, a bit tongue in cheek!
soundsham gave two examples of where scores varied by a good margin and his meaning was clear to me.

ShriekingSheet

I won the Captain's and was second in the President's (beaten on back 9) in the same year, and I won a Medal in between the two.

I birdied 15, 16 and 17 and lipped out for birdie on the last. You can just imagine what the guy who won did on the back 9. Think he was off 14 or something. I was off 6.

The two events are usually within 8 weeks of each other. Not much of a stretch for someone to have a very hot spell and do it in both. What you don't see is many guys winning multiple ones, at least in clubs with medium/large memberships.

Think there's one guy in Newlands who won the Captain's 3 times in 3 different decades, but that'd be a pretty rare case to win more than one or two.

GreeBo

soundsham wrote: »

Just speculating but asking was 50 pts a good score previously seems a little silly

Maybe 40 pts wins now where 42/43 or so was needed before probably due to the fact the ball isn't running out on any course now

Played blarney on sat myself and this is close to lee valley but a lot higher and couldn't believe how soft it was ,drives were stopping where they pitched,
I was told 38 pts won the pres prize there'd the week previous.....

In my defence he said "anything over 40.....course is playingmuch tougher"
To me that would indicate more than 42, 43.
Also, he didnt say what was needed to win, he said what was "a good score".
40 points would be a pretty regular winning score in most clubs, it wouldnt just be considered "a good score" though. There wouldnt be a huge bunch of 40 pointers.


@onlyfinewine
I think its accepted by most (inc CONGU) that having 36 points on a "normal" course is a good score. Sure CSS can be higher but I dont think I have ever seen a comp/course where SS was 39 and CSS on the day was 42. Have you?
To me that would suggest a pretty poor course/choice of tee.

GreeBo

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

I won the Captain's and was second in the President's (beaten on back 9) in the same year, and I won a Medal in between the two.

I birdied 15, 16 and 17 and lipped out for birdie on the last. You can just imagine what the guy who won did on the back 9. Think he was off 14 or something. I was off 6.

The two events are usually within 8 weeks of each other. Not much of a stretch for someone to have a very hot spell and do it in both. What you don't see is many guys winning multiple ones, at least in clubs with medium/large memberships.

Think there's one guy in Newlands who won the Captain's 3 times in 3 different decades, but that'd be a pretty rare case to win more than one or two.

There is usually some luck involved in winning one of the big ones, a useful bounce or getting away with a poor shot. Its tough to play well in both AND not get beaten by someone who just has one of those days (or two).
We have several (>5) people who have won the captains twice in Grange, no one on 3 though....yet!

JohnMcClane

Golfer in my club won both presidents(42pts) & captains prize with a score of 101(-7) for 27 holes playing off scratch for both in 2011!

onlyfinewine

GreeBo wrote: »

In my defence he said "anything over 40.....course is playingmuch tougher"
To me that would indicate more than 42, 43.
Also, he didnt say what was needed to win, he said what was "a good score".
40 points would be a pretty regular winning score in most clubs, it wouldnt just be considered "a good score" though. There wouldnt be a huge bunch of 40 pointers.


@onlyfinewine
I think its accepted by most (inc CONGU) that having 36 points on a "normal" course is a good score. Sure CSS can be higher but I dont think I have ever seen a comp/course where SS was 39 and CSS on the day was 42. Have you?
To me that would suggest a pretty poor course/choice of tee.

Just as a matter of interest, when did you gain access to the inner portals of CONGU to discover that they felt that 36 points on a "normal" course was a good score? I sincerely doubt that you can back that up.
Taking you example at the highest end of a CSS of 42 points, you could also look at the lower end and find that 30 points could be the CSS, would you not agree that in that case 30 points would be a good score on the day?
Overall, as has been statd the CSS could range from 30 to 42 points and each of them would have been by definition a good score insofar as equaling the standard scratch on the day.

GreeBo

onlyfinewine wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, when did you gain access to the inner portals of CONGU to discover that they felt that 36 points on a "normal" course was a good score? I sincerely doubt that you can back that up.
Taking you example at the highest end of a CSS of 42 points, you could also look at the lower end and find that 30 points could be the CSS, would you not agree that in that case 30 points would be a good score on the day?
Overall, as has been statd the CSS could range from 30 to 42 points and each of them would have been by definition a good score insofar as equaling the standard scratch on the day.

"The Model predicts that a 5.8 handicap player, if correctly handicapped, would be
expected have a Nett of the MGD of 3.2 (that is they play on average 3.2 shots over
handicap)"
From here and
"The CONGU® UHS, like all other handicap systems round the world, handicaps players according to the better half of their records"
from here

Think about it though. Why would there be a need for a buffer zone if it was "easy" to play to your handicap.

Clearly when talking about this we are talking about playing to par for the day, i.e. CSS; but maybe that was not clear to everyone. To clarify, the actual number of points a single player scores in isolation is irrelevant when talking about handicaps.

Maclock

soundsham wrote: »

It wouldn't have been your good self by any chance ??

Sorry about the very reply but only managed to buy a new laptop today after the hard drive on the previous one packed up.
Yes it was myself but i didn't want to say, i won the presidents and the captains. I was really interested to see if it happens much in golf clubs as opposed to highlighting who actually won them.

Maclock

GreeBo wrote: »

That still doesnt make sense. You said that since the course is now playing much tougher that 40 points is a good score...what used to be a good score, 50?

When i said anything over 40 is a good score i obviously didn't state my reasons for saying so.
1. It was off the white makers which is 400 yards shorter than the championship blue markers.
2. The rough is much thicker if you miss the fairway.
3. It's now almost impossible to cut the corner on the 13th and 14th.
4. There has been no run at all this summer.
Up to last year a person could come in with 45points off the whites and come second.
This year the winning scores are lower and in my opinion anything over 40, ie 41, 42, 43 is a great score. In saying that, we have a rule of placing everywhere when winter rules are in play (which has happened for the captains and presidents prizes) and then the scoring goes bananas.

G1032

Maclock wrote: »

Hi guys. Just wondering if these 2 competitions were ever won by one person in the same year at your club?
It was done in our club this year and i'm interested to see if it's a common occurrence?

Nearly did it myself a few years ago.
2nd in the Captains (45 hole) and won the Presidents. Nearly, but not quite.