Australian media on child bicycle trailers

monument

I know some people are wary of child trailers on busy roads, but this kind of coverage takes the biscuit... what happens when a radio presenter takes looks for a non-story and shares it with his buddy TV producer and former cop...

TV show coverage: http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8524906

Radio show: http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8524906

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUh-DErllVg

monument

Also the mother posting her point of view on a message board: http://www.sydneycyclist.com/forum/topics/child-endangerment-verbally-abused-filmed

They were following her in an SUV for about 15mins!

Today, I took my daughter out in her bike trailer attached to my Brompton. We have had people filming us or taking photos along the way, Newtown especially, (I suppose because its seems 'novel') ?

It never bothered me, because the reactions have all been positive, but today, I became a little unerved when a SUV was driving alongside of us from 'world centre' began filming.

At first I thought it was more of the same attention we were already accustomed to, but it persisted, we were filmed from all angles, just about, all the way to glebe, ( a good 15 minute ride). I was probably doing 20k/h uphill pushing it, (dont forget, Im towing 40+kg!) not thinking, or even capable of pulling to the kerb (along the busy bus lane) while being hurled abuse, "thats ILLEGAL!" ... the girlfriend was then being a smart ass within a meter of my bike trailer (while his hand was out the window with his camera, ) attempting to illicit a hostile response, i suppose (it never happened) whilst they held up traffic and were doing the very thing they accused me of: putting my childs life at risk.

My daughter had the ipad in the back and I wish I couldve got her to film them and get thier licence plate number down. Cops said this evening if sharing on social network is thier intent, theres nothing I can do about it.
Im guessing they will try to hand the footage to the RTA or a MP and try to have trailers banned! haha! good luck to them, they can take thier gripes to Target to start: where I bought it-somebody at the australian safety standards mustve approved it, then go to ebay where 20 or so are being sold at any given time.

Or just go home, have a good cry and tell, 'mama'.

What can I do about being filmed? ..I dont want to be published with negative connotations to my cycling, as I obey the road rules.....(lets hope they are stupid enough to upload, and incriminate themselves with dangerous driving in the meantime...)...my dutch cargo bike, Im too afraid to use now...:(

It no use when after the fact you can say, 'if I only did this..or that...filming them back or just stopping, both afterthoughts, I was just too creeped out at the time...

Tonyandthewhale

There's something deeply wrong with how Australians view bicycles.

doozerie

The people doing the filming in that clip are clearly morons. We've had similar views expressed to us when towing our daughter in a trailer, and the people spouting these views were equally moronic and equally allergic to any form of logic. Our daughter's trailer has a roll cage and a 5-point harness built-in, making it safer than any other form of child bike transport that I can think of, and arguably providing greater safety than the average car seat with its 3-point seat belt. But reason goes out the window, head-first ironically, when people get their knickers in a twist and start preaching their own personal view of safety. Then they climb back into their car, with its pretty poor safety record relatively speaking, and drive off in a world of their own. Geniuses.

K.Flyer

I have seen similar bike / kid trailers being used around Dublin City and to be honest they do not look safe to me. In my opinion considering the legislation regarding how a child is carried in a car, I fail to see how these could be considered safe and legal.
My concern is for the safety of the child, all it takes is for a HGV or similar with limited street level vision or even a car for that matter, sitting at a set of lights to roll forward a few feet, forgetting the tiny trailer is there and we have a disaster. Worse again, a child decides to wriggle out of its straps, and they do, and another horrible scenario can be created.
I have seen the Cargo style bikes with the front box converted with a couple of seats in them and they look a far better idea. At least you can keep a watch on what the kids are doing and talk to them as you go along
But with the way some people use the roads in Dublin, I really fear for a childs safety in one if these trailers. They have no protection that I can see, leaving it open to a serious or possibly fatal situation.

K.Flyer

doozerie wrote: »

... We've had similar views expressed to us when towing our daughter in a trailer... Our daughter's trailer has a roll cage and a 5-point harness built-in, making it safer than any other form of child bike transport that I can think of, and arguably providing greater safety than the average car seat with its 3-point seat belt.

When our children were younger and had to sit in a child seat when in the car, the child seat had a 5 point harness, the seat was held by the main seat belt cirrectly tensioned and fully secured, surrounded by a steel car body with airbags. There is no way on earth you can say that being carried in one of these trailers is safer than being transported in a car. Greener maybe, but not safer.

rp

K.Flyer wrote: »

When our children were younger and had to sit in a child seat when in the car, the child seat had a 5 point harness, the seat was held by the main seat belt cirrectly tensioned and fully secured, surrounded by a steel car body with airbags. There is no way on earth you can say that being carried in one of these trailers is safer than being transported in a car. Greener maybe, but not safer.

The exposure of car occupants to dangerous fumes is much higher inside the car than for those outside (in a trailer, for example), and young children are more likely to suffer consequences such as cancers, later in life. How is that safer?

doozerie

K.Flyer wrote:

They have no protection that I can see, leaving it open to a serious or possibly fatal situation.

Then you are not looking closely enough, or your preconceptions are over-riding what your eyes are telling you.

K.Flyer wrote:

There is no way on earth you can say that being carried in one of these trailers is safer than being transported in a car.

I said that our daughter in her trailer is arguably better protected than a driver with their 3-point seat belt - it's drivers and adult car passengers that tend to bang on about what they mistakenly perceive as the dangers of a child trailer, seemingly ignorant of any and all dangers that they themselves risk by travelling by car.

As a cyclist with a trailer, and a car driver, I feel well able to speak of the safety benefits of our bicycle child trailer, what's your basis for dismissing them I wonder? And before you retort with the ridiculous "my concern is for the safety of the child" maybe you should consider that *my* concern for the safey of *my* child is paramount, before you opt to sink to such offensive condescension.

K.Flyer

rp wrote: »

The exposure of car occupants to dangerous fumes is much higher inside the car than for those outside (in a trailer, for example), and young children are more likely to suffer consequences such as cancers, later in life. How is that safer?

Never heard that one before, have you a link to some recognised research evidence for this claim. Link Please!
I would consider that the child in the trailer is actually in more of a toxic danger by the fact that it is sitting almost level with the exchaust pipe of most vehicles.

rp

K.Flyer wrote: »

Never heard that one before, have you a link to some recognised research evidence for this claim. Link Please!

Sure, here's one: http://www.scribd.com/doc/9574922/InCar-Pollution-Report:

In fact, the levels of exposure to most auto pollutants, including potentially deadly particulate matter, volatile organic compounds, and carbon monoxide, are generally much higher for automobile drivers and passengers than at nearby ambient air monitoring stations or even at the side of the road

K.Flyer wrote: »

I would consider that the child in the trailer is actually in more of a toxic danger by the fact that it is sitting almost level with the exchaust pipe of most vehicles.

Perhaps in some environments, e.g., "Urban Canyons", that might be the case (although studies don't highlight that), but in our windy country, outside of a car, we get sufficient ventilation.

tomasrojo

I don't know which is safer, but I think the bigger point is whether a trailer is adequately safe (I think it is; I certainly think it's safer than a child bike seat, which most people have much less trouble with), and if it is adequately safe, then cycling with a trailer should be encouraged, because it's safer for other children than another car on the road.

EDIT: There was a German or Swiss insurance company that compared a few modes of carrying children while cycling and concluded that a trailer was the safest mode. I don't think they included cargo bikes though. Someone else probably has a link to the study?

rp

tomasrojo wrote: »

EDIT: There was a German or Swiss insurance company that compared a few modes of carrying children while cycling and concluded that a trailer was the safest mode. I don't think they included cargo bikes though. Someone else probably has a link to the study?

It was done by the Allianz in Germany - the original page seems to have been taken down, but it is quoted in a lot of places, e.g., http://www.fahrradanhaenger-direkt.de/Fahrradanhaenger-test.html

Untersuchungen des Allianz Zentrums* für Technik und des RWTÜV-Essen haben bewiesen, was kein Experte bestreiten wird: Kinder können nirgends sicherer mit dem Fahrrad transportiert werden als im Anhänger

"Research by the Allianz Technology Centre and TUeV Essen has shown, what no expert can disagree with: Children cannot be more safely transported by bicycle than in a trailer"

Bunnyhopper

K.Flyer wrote: »

Link Please!

This is a bit rich given that so far all your posts have consisted of assertions unsupported by anything beyond personal opinion and what you subjectively "consider" to be the case, some anecdotal observations, and what appears to be speculation and guesswork.

The links that have been provided flatly contradict your posts. Do you have any supporting material you can provide links to so that we can have a balanced, informed discussion rather than one based on subjective fears?

monument

K.Flyer wrote: »

I have seen similar bike / kid trailers being used around Dublin City and to be honest they do not look safe to me. In my opinion considering the legislation regarding how a child is carried in a car, I fail to see how these could be considered safe and legal.

As a matter of course cars travel at 50-120km/h.

Bikes don't.

K.Flyer wrote: »

My concern is for the safety of the child, all it takes is for a HGV or similar with limited street level vision or even a car for that matter, sitting at a set of lights to roll forward a few feet, forgetting the tiny trailer is there and we have a disaster.

Ah, here.

I'm sure most around here are sick at this stage of hearing about my six months wheeling around a pram before the young lad was old enough to go on a bike, but from that experience I'd say there's a higher risk of getting hit at junctions with a pram. It was near daily the amount of times cars willing inched forward past lights in heavy traffic or were totally blind to lights in heavy or light traffic. On the bike has been much better.

Also, there's now very limited HGV traffic in the Dublin City areas besides major to port routes and around industrial estates etc.

K.Flyer wrote: »

I have seen the Cargo style bikes with the front box converted with a couple of seats in them and they look a far better idea. At least you can keep a watch on what the kids are doing and talk to them as you go along

Emotionally, I might have agreed a while ago, and maybe that's one of the reasons for getting a cargo bike. But after looking at trailers more and seen them crash tested, my views on trailers has changed a good deal. The crash testing at first is a bit gut wrenching (thinking about anything with a child in it getting hit), but at least some of the trailers are tested.

K.Flyer wrote:

But with the way some people use the roads in Dublin, I really fear for a childs safety in one if these trailers. They have no protection that I can see, leaving it open to a serious or possibly fatal situation.

As above, I fear for children in prams and children walking more.

K.Flyer wrote: »

There is no way on earth you can say that being carried in one of these trailers is safer than being transported in a car. Greener maybe, but not safer.

It's all relative.

Trailer on urban roads may be safer than cars on -- sometimes windy, narrow -- rural national roads -- small cars mixing with large SUVs, or any car mixing with large trucks travelling at 80km/h.

Is it a scandal that people are allowed to drive cars with children in them where there are trucks travelling at 80km/h or above?

K.Flyer

rp wrote: »

Sure, here's one: http://www.scribd.com/doc/9574922/InCar-Pollution-Report:

In fact, the levels of exposure to most auto pollutants, including potentially deadly particulate matter, volatile organic compounds, and carbon monoxide, are generally much higher for automobile drivers and passengers than at nearby ambient air monitoring stations or even at the side of the road.

Thanks for the link RP, these studies do interest me. I will take time to read it during the week.

doozerie wrote: »

As a cyclist with a trailer, and a car driver, I feel well able to speak of the safety benefits of our bicycle child trailer, what's your basis for dismissing them I wonder? And before you retort with the ridiculous "my concern is for the safety of the child" maybe you should consider that *my* concern for the safey of *my* child is paramount, before you opt to sink to such offensive condescension.

Look, I was simply giving my opinion on the subject. My cause for concern is not the actual trailer itself, but the non-awareness of these trailers by some motorists and its level of visability on the road under certain driving conditions.
I have regularly seen several of these in use by different people around the city, including a double unit. I give them time, space and a wide berth. But I have seen twice motorists only cop on at the last minute and the bike rider being unaware of what almost happened behind him.
Understand me, I am not attacking the user but I do believe in and around the city centre these trailers are in a vunerable position due to their level of visability and particularly because of the way some people drive cars.
Which is what I tried to say in my first post.

Because of what I have seen, this is what I base my opinion on.

a148pro

I think cycling in dublin is dangerous, period. As such I think putting kids in one of those contraptions is outright lunacy. That said, I'm sure the daily mail et al would have a field day if someone was ever hurt in them and i've never heard of it so maybe our immediate perceptions are incorrect. Our newborn cosleeps with us and a lot of conventional thinkers will tell you that's insane but we love it, as does he, each to their own I suppose.

But I don't even want my wife cycling in dublin, so will never put him on my bike or behind it.

deandean

I'm sticking my neck out slightly here, but

"There is not one recorded incident of a death of a child in a cycle-towed trailer in an urban environment".

After some research I think that statement is correct.

A worried mother being hassled by morons in a SUV with cameras? She should be packing some Heat. BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! (it is Auz after all)

Now that'd be a story.

doozerie

K.Flyer wrote:

My cause for concern is not the actual trailer itself, but the non-awareness of these trailers by some motorists and its level of visability on the road under certain driving conditions.

a148pro wrote:

I think cycling in dublin is dangerous, period.

You both seem to be saying that people should simply not cycle with kids - perhaps you mean just in trailers, perhaps you mean any form of transporting kids by kid, you are possibly even saying that no-one at all should cycle. But the cause of your fears seems to be the behaviour of other road users, yet rather than suggest that such behaviour be tackled you seem to be accepting it as somehow inevitable and suggesting that we all live and act around that set of circumstances. With all due respect, my opinion on that matter boils down to: bollox to that!

When I cycle, I try to do so with care and attention, and I expect likewise from those around me. When I drive I do likewise and similarly expect the same of other road users. If people act the arse on the roads, and some people certainly do, then they should be dealt with - at the very least their behaviour should be questioned/challenged, and in many cases they should be penalised as the laws allow. Quietly accepting their behaviour as inevitable is disgraceful, to be honest, and essentially lends support to their attitude and their actions. To take a specific example of that attitude, look at how drink driving was so widely accepted and ignored in this country in the past (and still is today by many judging by the average of over 800 motorists per month this year charged with drink driving - see here).

Personally I have no intention of raising my daughter to consider the worst of motorist behaviour as somehow normal, and therefore acceptable, and by raising her to believe that getting around by bicycle is feasible and fun, I hope that'll make her more likely to be a careful and considerate driver at some point too should she decide to drive a car. One less future obnoxious git in a car may be a small contribution to the efforts to make the roads a better and safer place for everyone, but at least it is a contribution.

As for right now, both my wife and I commute by bike and will continue to do so, eliminating 2 more potentials cars from the ridiculously congested roads each day - our goal there is not to benefit others, but that is a positive side effect. Those that preach fear regarding cycling on the roads potentially scare people away from bikes and into cars, increasing the disparity of numbers between cyclists and motorists, giving those same people even more cause for fear, and the whole horrible cycle repeats and feeds itself. Such people need to stop and consider whether their fear is justified in the first place, and look at the facts such as death rates for cyclists versus motorists, death rates for people who exercise versus those that don't, stress levels of those that sit and spin in traffic jams every day versus those that don't, etc, etc. A bit of clear and reasoned thinking goes a long way.

monument

a148pro wrote: »

I think cycling in dublin is dangerous, period.

The facts don't support that, full stop.

VanhireBoys

a148pro wrote: »

I think cycling in dublin is dangerous, period.

Not true...I took a few recommended routes (Thanks Lads ) in Dublin and found it surprisingly easy and safe to get around.. Everyone very courteous and friendly..... !

Id rather cycle in Dublin than out between Barna and Spiddle :eek:

MrCreosote

Aussie drivers in general are aggressive and selfish. The attitude to cyclists is appalling, especially in Sydney.

The only thing worse is the vacuous drivel that passes for current affairs television. Schlocky lowest-common-denominator ****e. Television there is unwatchable.

Give me Primetime any day. They might make it up, but it's intelligent at least.

galwaycyclist

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

There's something deeply wrong with how Australians view bicycles.

MrCreosote wrote: »

Aussie drivers in general are aggressive and selfish. The attitude to cyclists is appalling, especially in Sydney.

The only thing worse is the vacuous drivel that passes for current affairs television. Schlocky lowest-common-denominator ****e. Television there is unwatchable.

Give me Primetime any day. They might make it up, but it's intelligent at least.

Agreed. Apparently Cadel Evans (Australian TdF Winner) feels that in his experience his native country is the most dangerous place in the world to cycle.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/evans-laments-dangerous-attitude-on-the-roads/2008/01/06/1199554486502.html

I have formed the impression that some Australians (more than other nations) feel some kind of need to "demonise" cycling. I am not sure if this is a side effect of the propaganda used to push their helmet legislation or if their helmet legislation was a side effect of some kind of official resentment of cycling. Certainly I think there is more going on than a concern for "road safety".

This would all be academic but the old Irish National Safety Council used to extol Australia as a model to follow for "road safety" and the same thinking was probably imported undiluted into the Road Safety Authority.

galwaycyclist

tomasrojo wrote: »

I don't know which is safer, but I think the bigger point is whether a trailer is adequately safe (I think it is; I certainly think it's safer than a child bike seat, which most people have much less trouble with), and if it is adequately safe, then cycling with a trailer should be encouraged, because it's safer for other children than another car on the road.

EDIT: There was a German or Swiss insurance company that compared a few modes of carrying children while cycling and concluded that a trailer was the safest mode. I don't think they included cargo bikes though. Someone else probably has a link to the study?

I don't have an issue with child trailers as such and they will have to become an accepted part of the Irish road user mix. However, I think that in Ireland it might be a good idea to have a "baby on board" sign on the back of them. (Although I acknowledge that this might increase the chance of abuse)

This is simply because I suspect that many Irish motorists would have no concept of what a bike trailer is or understand what it might contain. In Galway, it is likely that most motorists experience of encountering bike trailers is restricted to some traveller lads who use them to collect scrap metal.

I have some dim recollection of hearing about some incident where a trailer was rammed deliberately by a driver but can't remember the details or even if it was occupied.

rp

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I have some dim recollection of hearing about some incident where a trailer was rammed deliberately by a driver but can't remember the details or even if it was occupied.

Sounds like this case in the UK: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1421135/Road-rage-driver-reversed-over-child-in-bicycle-buggy.html

a148pro

monument wrote: »

The facts don't support that, full stop.

Well I'm going on my own experience on the road, I cycle in dublin regularly and i've had regular close calls with trucks busses and taxis going past me at speed way too close. I regard that as dangerous because the margin for error is low, the consequences are very serious and my life is effectively in the hands of other road users who were either born without the capacity to drive with appropriate consideration for others or just don't care. Cycle lanes are limited, not respected and piecemeal, stopping and starting and leading to dead ends.

I would love to bring my kids cycling everywhere. Contrary to the above, I do not regard any of that behaviour as acceptable. Nor do I view my concern as to that danger as being tantamount to encouraging it, frankly, that's nonsense. Its an uncontrolled environment with insufficient safeguards for cyclists imo and for that reason I don't wish to introduce my children to it. Regrettably.

a148pro

VanhireBoys wrote: »

Id rather cycle in Dublin than out between Barna and Spiddle :eek:

As would I, albeit there are nicer food stops on that route.

monument

Dublin has about 40k regular cyclist plus many more irregular cyclists and very low death or serious injuries. In recent years the city has seen an increase in cyclist numbers at the same time as a drop in the death and serious injury rate -- effectively things have gotten much safer.

Perception of danger and unacceptable aggressive or poor driving does not always equal actual danger. But I fully accept that actual safety isn't the only important thing regarding cycling and at the point Dublin is at "subjective safety" becomes a larger issue.

Subjective safety it self can sometimes be a funny thing where people feel safer when things may be less safer than before.

doozerie

a148pro wrote: »

Well I'm going on my own experience on the road, I cycle in dublin regularly and i've had regular close calls with trucks busses and taxis going past me at speed way too close. I regard that as dangerous because the margin for error is low, the consequences are very serious and my life is effectively in the hands of other road users who were either born without the capacity to drive with appropriate consideration for others or just don't care.
:
:
Contrary to the above, I do not regard any of that behaviour as acceptable. Nor do I view my concern as to that danger as being tantamount to encouraging it, frankly, that's nonsense. Its an uncontrolled environment with insufficient safeguards for cyclists imo and for that reason I don't wish to introduce my children to it. Regrettably.

It is unfortunate that your experiences have led to you forming the view that cycling in Dublin is dangerous, but many other cyclists in Dublin (me included) don't share that view.

As for nonsense, describing Dublin road as "an uncontrolled environment" falls into that category and I just don't know what "insufficient safeguards for cyclists" means. Laws exist for all road users and if you feel that people are breaking them then report them - you have the means, as much as any of us do, to kick off the formal procedure to request the gardai to deal with people acting the maggot on the roads. If you don't report those people that you believe are driving dangerously then how are the gardai ever going to know of them and their actions?

a148pro wrote:

I would love to bring my kids cycling everywhere.

Then just do it, as many of us already do. Just like safety in numbers for cyclists generally, the more that people see (more) kids cycling on the roads the more they'll be reminded of the need to drive with care and attention.

doozerie

galwaycyclist wrote: »

I don't have an issue with child trailers as such and they will have to become an accepted part of the Irish road user mix. However, I think that in Ireland it might be a good idea to have a "baby on board" sign on the back of them.

I dislike the "Baby on board" stickers on cars. They seem to be saying "well, I realise that you drive like a dick generally, but please be careful near me as I have a child on board". The fact that these stickers are so widespread suggests that a lot of people believe the basic standard of driving around them to be poor. If that is really the case then we should be doing something to address that issue, not appealing to the possible better nature of the crap drivers via a sticker.

At their worst these stickers convey the impression that you can drive as you like so long as you behave near a car with a kid(s) in it. That mindset is demonstrated well by a quote in that article that rp linked too. The sociopathic driver is quoted as saying "I had never seen a trailer like that before. There was no sign to say a child was in it. I panicked. I would give anything for it not to have happened.", which seems to suggest that driving over the trailer would have been somehow acceptable if there had been no kind in it - that skips conveniently past the fact that the father/cyclist was also badly injured by the driver's actions, as if that was not an issue. Perhaps that is selective quoting by the journalist but I wonder whether the case would even have had any coverage if a child wasn't badly injured too, despite the fact that it would still have been horrific in those circumstances.

There is also the irony of drivers with such stickers being amongst the more inconsiderate drivers themselves. As an example, at my daughter's creche this morning there was the usual nonsense of people who were dropping off their kid(s) parking in the disabled parking spot, and parking right outside the creche door (where there is no parking space and the abandoned car impedes other cars from parking in, or pulling out of, several marked parking spaces). And coming out of the car park we encountered a car which was turning into it by lazily cutting its turns and basically driving in via our exit lane. And these are regular occurrences. At least some of these cars have the "Baby on board" stickers.

As for drivers recognising what a child trailer is, we've been quite surprised ourselves to find that motorists do seem to recognise our child trailer for what it is and for the mostpart allow plenty of space for it. Those who don't drive with consideration around it tend to be the ones who mouth off about how dangerous it is to be towing a child around in it - if irony were to take human form it would be obliged to bury its foot well and truly up their arse. In fact, the day that I took delivery of the trailer in work I rode home with it empty that evening. I misjudged my distance at speed, the left trailer wheel clipped a kerb, and the trailer rolled over. The face of one of the drivers stopped in a traffic jam was a mask of horror as I stopped the bike and righted the trailer again - even without a child inside they clearly knew what the trailer was, which was a promising start (-ish!).

galwaycyclist

doozerie wrote: »

I dislike the "Baby on board" stickers on cars. They seem to be saying "well, I realise that you drive like a dick generally, but please be careful near me as I have a child on board". The fact that these stickers are so widespread suggests that a lot of people believe the basic standard of driving around them to be poor. If that is really the case then we should be doing something to address that issue, not appealing to the possible better nature of the crap drivers via a sticker.

Agree with the sentiment and having seen how some people drive in the presence of actual babies or toddlers I am under no illusion that it would confer any magical protection. (I am even aware of an incident with an actual National School age child on a bike being pushed into a ditch by an Irish woman in a 4x4).

Just think it could be a good idea if only to point out to drivers what a trailer might contain.

droidus

rp wrote: »

Sounds like this case in the UK: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1421135/Road-rage-driver-reversed-over-child-in-bicycle-buggy.html

2 years for attempted murder of a child: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2869009.stm

buffalo

doozerie wrote: »

In fact, the day that I took delivery of the trailer in work I rode home with it empty that evening. I misjudged my distance at speed, the left trailer wheel clipped a kerb, and the trailer rolled over. The face of one of the drivers stopped in a traffic jam was a mask of horror as I stopped the bike and righted the trailer again - even without a child inside they clearly knew what the trailer was, which was a promising start (-ish!).

I'm not too sure what it says about me as a person, but I still laugh whenever I hear that story. :pac:

Lumen

My experiences of cycling with children on the roads of Dublin is that when a driver sees a child on the road (in or on whatever contraption) they will invariably give them plenty of space.

This leads me to believe that (freak incidents aside) almost all "careless" driving towards cyclists is actually deliberate.

Lusk Doyle

Lumen wrote: »

My experiences of cycling with children on the roads of Dublin is that when a driver sees a child on the road (in or on whatever contraption) they will invariably give them plenty of space.

This leads me to believe that (freak incidents aside) almost all "careless" driving towards cyclists is actually deliberate.

That's a Friday thread starter if ever there was one! I'd agree with you though.

Qualitymark

a148pro wrote: »

But I don't even want my wife cycling in dublin

An old-fashioned paterfamilias!

cdaly_

galwaycyclist wrote: »

However, I think that in Ireland it might be a good idea to have a "baby on board" sign on the back of them.

doozerie wrote: »

I dislike the "Baby on board" stickers on cars. They seem to be saying "well, I realise that you drive like a dick generally, but please be careful near me as I have a child on board".

I've always thought of these stickers as a warning to other road users of probable erratic driving on the part of the sticker displayer...

Run_to_da_hills

Why don't they insist on these trailers being made from high visible florescent material?

buffalo

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why don't they insist on these trailers being made from high visible florescent material?

And bikes, they should be made out of hi-vis as well. And cars. srsly, are people not able to see red objects?

doozerie

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why don't they insist on these trailers being made from high visible florescent material?

Why don't "they" insist on children themselves being made from high visible fluorescent material?

I mean, how else are children supposed to survive outside of their trailer or even outside of a car? For example, my daughter's room is typical of any young child's room I'd imagine and it has several toy cars and, some dumper trucks (HGV's *gasp*), and at least one bus, it's a wonder she hasn't been run over by the lot of them before now.

Run_to_da_hills

doozerie wrote: »

Why don't "they" insist on children themselves being made from high visible fluorescent material?

I mean, how else are children supposed to survive outside of their trailer or even outside of a car? For example, my daughter's room is typical of any young child's room I'd imagine and it has several toy cars and, some dumper trucks (HGV's *gasp*), and at least one bus, it's a wonder she hasn't been run over by the lot of them before now.

There is a huge difference between your child playing about with a toy dumper truck in his bed room than having her sitting in what's no more than an unprotected dolls tent on wheels weaving in and out of busy traffic.

I am riding Mororbikes long enough to know the importance of visibility, from keeping my lights permanently on and wearing the appropriate gear. These are fine in the likes of recreational parks and designated cycle lanes.

endacl

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why don't they insist on these trailers being made from high visible florescent material?

By 'they', do you mean the NWO folks? They control the hi-viz market too?

Canis Lupus

I've sped read the topic and personally I have no issue with trailers as long as you don't use them with a live child on your first few goes.

I did however want to add that I've been living in Oz now for a few months and it should be pointed out that their 'media' is almost entirely the equivalent of The Sun or The Daily Mail. It's all, absolute and complete trash. So, take what they are talking about with a pinch of salt.

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Why don't they insist on these trailers being made from high visible florescent material?

you should paint your tinfoil hat in high vis

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I am riding Mororbikes long enough to know the importance of visibility, from keeping my lights permanently on and wearing the appropriate gear. These are fine in the likes of recreational parks and designated cycle lanes.

well then I'm sure with all this skill and experience you realise that high vis is neither appropriate or useful on the road.

strokeslover

I absolutely hate all this over-sensationalised sh*te they put out over here in Australia.

Every road user has the equal reponsibility of safety on the roads, cyclists and motorists alike.

I don't see anything wrong with what this woman is doing, she even has the high vis flags so people can see the trailer, as for the idiots in the car filming, that's another story.

smacl

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I've sped read the topic and personally I have no issue with trailers as long as you don't use them with a live child on your first few goes.

Certainly makes a lot of sense to get in a few practice runs. I towed my youngest around on a trailgator last summer for a bit, and it took a fair bit of getting used to. In terms of visibility, I reckon having a flag at the back which places something in or around the eye level height of an SUV driver does no harm.

John_Rambo

smacl wrote: »

I towed my youngest around on a trailgator last summer for a bit, and it took a fair bit of getting used to

Any more tips?

seamus

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I am riding Mororbikes long enough to know the importance of visibility, from keeping my lights permanently on and wearing the appropriate gear. These are fine in the likes of recreational parks and designated cycle lanes.

And you've never had anyone pull out in front of you or cut you off when you're wearing your high-vis, right?

smacl

John_Rambo wrote: »

Any more tips?

Tighten everything very thoroughly, first solo outing showed a few assembly errors, as did the first go with my daughter in tow. I found it helped to lower my saddle slightly to be able to get a foot down for stability without having to lean over too much.

Think of the whole thing like a tandem with a vindictive dwarf at the rear. Remember that while the child shouldn't pedal, and shouldn't apply the brakes, if they've any sense of mischief, they're going to try it out. Outside of that, enjoy it. Great gas altogether.

FWIW, we had one spill on the western greenway, trying to negotiate a quite long thin cattle grid, but I doubt you'd see this type of obstacle on the road. Your turning circle is very big with the trailgator on.

lg123

MrCreosote wrote: »

Aussie drivers in general are aggressive and selfish. The attitude to cyclists is appalling, especially in Sydney.

The only thing worse is the vacuous drivel that passes for current affairs television. Schlocky lowest-common-denominator ****e. Television there is unwatchable.

Give me Primetime any day. They might make it up, but it's intelligent at least.

in Vic, the attitude towards cyclists isnt so bad but its unreal in NSW, blatent hatred even on the radio.

regarding that clip, the show it came from, 'a current affair', is such BS. its hard to believe the crap they try to spin as current affairs. the worst thing is the amount of idiots who believe it.

galwaycyclist

smacl wrote: »

Certainly makes a lot of sense to get in a few practice runs. I towed my youngest around on a trailgator last summer for a bit, and it took a fair bit of getting used to. In terms of visibility, I reckon having a flag at the back which places something in or around the eye level height of an SUV driver does no harm.

I found myself laughing out loud at the video of the Australian "safety expert" complaining about the difficulty of seeing that lady's trailer. It has two (x2) flag/banners that look to be about 1.5m high if not more - complete with coloured danglies.

Like how could you miss it? (If you actually look where you are going - I realise that some people don't)