Luas Strike Possibility

travis.bickle

Luas Drivers yesterday overwhelmingly rejected a Labour Court Recommendation and will now ballot its members for Industrial Action.

Drivers are seeking parity with other Safety Critical staff who recently received 23 extra rest days and maximum 8 hour shifts.

Drivers currently work 9 hour shifts in what is considered an extremely stressful working environment.

Veolia Transdev the French multinational who operate the Luas lightrail system for the RPA claim they do not have the funds to meet the 160+ drivers demands and have offered half the rest days (10) but will not reduce the shift times.

Tram drivers who are represented by SIPTU yesterday overwhelmingly rejected a Labour Court Recommendation by 91%.

SIPTU will now ballot members next week on Industrial Action which looks likely to lead to Strike Action.

Veolia Transdev and the RPA have been making a profit on an annual basis for the past ten years for what is deemed the most efficient public transport service in the country.
Veolia workers are the lowest paid workers in the transport system here in Ireland and work longer hours than other public transport workers. All other public transport systems in Dublin finish by 2330hrs, whereas the Luas operates after 0030hrs every week night.
The Luas is also the most expensive form of public transport in the Dublin City Area.

dowlingm

maybe getting rid of the no-strike clause in the last agreement not so clever now, RPA/Veolia?

travis.bickle

dowlingm wrote: »

maybe getting rid of the no-strike clause in the last agreement not so clever now, RPA/Veolia?

They RPA\Veolia didn't get rid of the "NO STRIKE" clause in the last agreement it was the workers who had that clause removed as they had been governed by it for the first six years.

Cookie_Monster

What's stressful about driving a Luas in comparison to say a Dublin Bus? Mostly split from traffic, driver sealed in and doesn't deal with passengers, new(ish) well design seating and control layout...

Does the 9 hour include an hour of lunch or is it ten hours, either way does the working time directive not set the max per week anyway...

dowlingm

travis - the thing about agreements is that both sides have to agree to changes :rolleyes:

cookie - here in Toronto there's a lot of friction about when streetcar drivers get to have rest/toilet breaks because of insufficient facilities at termini.

o1s1n

travis.bickle wrote: »

9 hrs with 1 hour break. DB max 8hrs inc 1hr break. Luas control work 8hr inc 1 hour break. Luas Drivers seeking parity under Railway Safety Act.

Luas drivers earn less than DB drivers! Luas stopping distance is 2.5 times that of a motor vehicle. Buses can swerve to avoid collisons. A tram carries three times more passengers than a bus. A tram is 100 tons. Luas drivers do not get triple pay for working Sundays and public holidays. Luas workers don't benefit from subsidized canteens. Luas workers dont have subsidized medical care for their families like DB do. Luas does not depend on tax payer through subvention payments like DB, IR, BE or DART. (all of which are non profit making companies to the tune of 30billion per annum.) Tram services run later than other other public service. Luas operates to 98% effiency.
DB drivers do not have to tow their vehicles if they breakdown.

Did they know all this when signing up for the job?

I pay in advance for a Luas ticket (which ain't cheap) and rely heavily on the service to get to work. If they strike, my daily commute is going to become a whole lot of unnecessary pain.

My job gets very stressful - I have a lot more company revenue resting on my shoulder than a Luas driver, have 40 people reporting directly to me who can come to me at any point with issues, potentially work a lot more mandatory overtime than they do to keep things running - yet if I were to strike I'd just instantly lose my job. And that's completely understandable as I understood all this before taking the position.

Get the hell over it. If you don't like the job spec, find another one - someone out there will gladly take your place. Holding us all to ransom with striking is such an arsehole thing to do. :mad:

dowlingm

travis - your enumeration of all the things DB personnel get or don't have to do is basically spelling out the reasons RPA was set up in the first place (removing the Light Rail Office from CIE). Memories of Brendan Ogle were recent and I bet that had a lot to do with why Veolia proposed the no-strike to SIPTU. SIPTU didn't mind agreeing so much because they were getting into the transport area they were previously shut out from by ILDA and NBRU. I think it's fair to say the introduction of LUAS has led to quieter IR times in CIE compared to those days - not completely peaceful but I would think the stats would maintain fewer days are lost to industrial action these days compared to then.

Now with the new collective agreement and times being tough Veolia obviously decided to give up no-strike to avoid having to sign on to other proposals which would have eaten into their profit margin more than strike risk, and now commuters may pay a price for that decision.

squod

Sooner that whole operation bites the dust the better. €1bn worth of bolloxology. Fuhk the trams off the lines and run buses over the existing tracks. Problem solved.

the_syco

If ye strike, you'll have to let the public know, otherwise they'll just assume it's another fault on the line somewhere, and they'll get the bus.

latenia

If you're looking for parity with the other transport companies why don't you picket their offices and demand they pay their workers less?

mikemac1

travis.bickle wrote: »

Veolia workers are the lowest paid workers in the transport system here in Ireland and work longer hours than other public transport workers.

Starting salary is 35,000

I definitely saw that in an ad though that was a few years ago.
I remember as I was thinking of applying :pac:

For some more backup, this rte news report from 2009 shows 35k as well
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1203/luas.html


Decent money, I wouldn't call it a low paid job

What do you think is a fair salary so?

squod

travis.bickle wrote: »

You sound like a Dublin Bus worker

Lord no. *Fingers crossed* never using their services again. Paying fares that are way over the odds for fairly poor services just too keep CIE employees in a pension scheme. Fuhk that.

Monty Burnz

travis.bickle wrote: »

Luas drivers earn less than DB drivers! Luas stopping distance is 2.5 times that of a motor vehicle. Buses can swerve to avoid collisons. A tram carries three times more passengers than a bus. A tram is 100 tons. Luas drivers do not get triple pay for working Sundays and public holidays. Luas workers don't benefit from subsidized canteens. Luas workers dont have subsidized medical care for their families like DB do. Luas does not depend on tax payer through subvention payments like DB, IR, BE or DART, to the tune of 30billion per annum. (all of which are non profit making companies ) Tram services run later than other other public service. Luas operates to 98% effiency.
DB drivers do not have to tow their vehicles if they breakdown.

Did the Luas drivers not know any of this stuff before they applied for their jobs?

confusia

Firstly I think Travis should apply to DB if he envies their conditions so much. Comparing yourself to others in a particular sector is valid to a point but you need more to your argument.

I was interested to see one poster say it was a mistake to get rid of a no-strike clause. That is a very blinkered view. The mistake perhaps was ever having one in the 1st place. When an employer has a no-strike clause, they need only pay lip service to industrial relations issues, because they can act with impunity without fear of repurcussion for the duration of the agreement. What is it they say about absolute power corrupts??.

Luas operator and RPA would have been better advised to steer clear of no-strike clauses and focus on cultivating a good working relationship with its staff. Negotiation is not about one side doing what it wants while the other has to grin and bear it. Thats common sense and this type of arrangement only breeds arrogance in those who have the power and resentment in those who do not.

We all have the constitutional right to withdraw our labour. its not done lightly or to inconvenience the public. Its a last resort that hits all in the pocket particularly those on the picket. When you hear of people on strike, dont automatically assume what a shower of tossers, think for a minute, what drove them to this point. How beligerent must management have been for it to end up in a picket.

The most important part of managing a business is developing an excellant relationship with those who deliver your business. (YOUR STAFF). Without them you have no business. If veolia/RPA got that wrong, maybe they are not fit to run the business anymore.

I sat in court at the opening of the prosecution of the Luas driver who crashed on oconnell street. The opening statement from the prosecutor went like this, "This man is a safety critical worker, and we will prove that this man acted in a manner the was not in accordance with his job description." Just to be clear, this driver who had an accident, made a mistake, probably his first in his time working for the LUAS was facing prosecution and possible prison term for an accident. Something he did not set out to do that morning when he was getting ready for work.

Does the guy above who mentioned he had 40 staff reporting to him face the possibility of killing somebody or facing a prison term if things go wrong in his day job? Unlikely, but this is the reality for a luas driver everyday on the job or for any safety critical worker who has the responsibility for others.

If safety is the number 1 prioity for public transport, it is imperative that the conditions of these workers are such that they have adequate rest and recouperation. If they are shift workers then this is even more important. When we sit on a plane we expect our pilot to be firing on all cylinders, I personally expect no less from drivers in Public transport. If the Luas operator already acknowledges the need to give the control workers an 8 hour shift and proper rest pattern (according to travis) then their drivers should expect no less.

If a luas driver makes a mistake, people can die and the driver can face prison. This is definitely a stress factor. Poor rosters will impact directly on rest and recovery time so if this is the issue, GET IT SORTED, because I want my pilot firing on all cylinders when I am a passenger.

Monty Burnz

travis.bickle wrote: »

I'm a taxi driver so 50k+ is sufficient taking into account the unsocial commitment.

I thought that most Dublin taxi drivers (claimed to) earn less than €15k per year or something (according to their tax returns). :eek:

mikemac1

Poor mouth when the taxman or a customer is asking

Pulling over 1k a week when you crash into one and they want compensation for loss of earnings or when a garage can't get a spare part so they are off the road

hmmm

How long does it take to train a new LUAS driver? I'd put up with a strike while new drivers were trained - I'd also be happy to see foreign drivers brought in.

Monty Burnz

travis.bickle wrote: »

Wouldn't you expect after ten years that your conditions of employment improve??

Not really. If you add to your skills and do a more challenging job etc., then yes. If you are just doing the same thing you did ten years ago, then not really, except pay rises in line with inflation.

Monty Burnz

travis.bickle wrote: »

I do believe that since the Luas started the trams have increased from 30 metres to 40 metres and the lines have been extended now serving Point, and Saggart, and Greenline has now doubled from original service?

Right, but the job is the same. Push the stick, don't hit anything, Bob's your uncle.

travis.bickle wrote: »

Did the Luas operator stick to its original ticket pricing??

If they just got money out of all the skangers who use the Luas for free, they wouldn't need any price hikes!

The Idyll Race

squod wrote: »

Sooner that whole operation bites the dust the better. €1bn worth of bolloxology. Fuhk the trams off the lines and run buses over the existing tracks. Problem solved.

I'm going to give a tongue-in-cheek response to that.

Lock and load, baby!

the groutch

stressful environment for the drivers? try stressful for the passengers who feel threatened by the dregs of society every time they get on a Red Line Luas.

the_syco

€35k? Nice. Do you need any qualifications to become a LUAS driver? Anywhere I know that employs people want the people to do it for less pay or more hours, or both. If you're still on €35k after 10 years on the same terms for the same hours consider yourself lucky!

goingnowhere

travis.bickle wrote: »

Just on another point Dart Drivers salary is 55k. Big difference for a similar job don't you think??? :eek:

DART drivers basic salary is 41k actually

The_Wrecker

travis.bickle wrote: »

9 hrs with 1 hour break. DB max 8hrs inc 1hr break. Luas control work 8hr inc 1 hour break. Luas Drivers seeking parity under Railway Safety Act.

Where do you get DB 8hrs incl 1hr break? The maximum is 9hr 59mins including break for shift. The averages are about 7.30hrs excluding break. I work Bogeys with worktimes of 6.30-8.20 with breaks of 2.00-3.30hrs. We do have a few good shifts for the extreme early boys ~ but it still aint Butlins!

The Idyll Race

travis.bickle wrote: »

My mate is a DART driver. I don't have his pay slip but in 2008 their salary was 48k. They sought to increase this to 68k for having longer carriages. This was rejected by the labour court but a substantial increase was agreed by both parties.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/dart-drivers-told-to-drop-pay-demands-215888.html

That was a joke, but in that case the jokers were serious. What happens when the magic money tree doesn't produce money anymore?

The_Wrecker

travis.bickle wrote: »

My mate is a DART driver. I don't have his pay slip but in 2008 their salary was 48k. They sought to increase this to 68k for having longer carriages. This was rejected by the labour court but a substantial increase was agreed by both parties.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/dart-drivers-told-to-drop-pay-demands-215888.html

This link goes back to 2005. There was another offer since then, that was to do with a lump sum offered to reduce weekend/bank holiday/restday rates. 41K.

smurph

He drives the 47 bus...:rolleyes:

Tickityboo

travis.bickle wrote: »

smurph wrote: »

He drives the 47 bus...:rolleyes:

Why am I not surprised (:rolleyes:)

Defender of a diabolically poor service that is funded by the tax paying public in government subvention payments.
Will he be singing the same tune when the government privatize the bus service??
Veolia will be one of the operators so lets see him demand his rights then!!!!

How many billions of tax payers money has been spent and a lot more to be spent on the luas? It would add up to a hell of alot of years subvention for C.I.E.

Victor

the groutch wrote: »

stressful environment for the drivers? try stressful for the passengers who feel threatened by the dregs of society every time they get on a Red Line Luas.

It's not the drivers threatening the passengers.

markpb

Tickityboo wrote: »

How many billions of tax payers money has been spent and a lot more to be spent on the luas? It would add up to a hell of alot of years subvention for C.I.E.

What do you mean? If you mean the cost of construction and later expansion, surely the same applies to the Dart network?

The_Wrecker

travis.bickle wrote: »

Why am I not surprised (:rolleyes:)

Defender of a diabolically poor service that is funded by the tax paying public in government subvention payments.
Will he be singing the same tune when the government privatize the bus service??
Veolia will be one of the operators so lets see him demand his rights then!!!!

The employees are not defending the company or goverment. But we would to put across that none of us except the board of CIE are on the mad money being discussed here. And yes we do mingle with train/coach guys and gals.

KD345

travis.bickle wrote: »

9 hrs with 1 hour break. DB max 8hrs inc 1hr break. Luas control work 8hr inc 1 hour break. Luas Drivers seeking parity under Railway Safety Act.

Luas drivers earn less than DB drivers! Luas stopping distance is 2.5 times that of a motor vehicle. Buses can swerve to avoid collisons. A tram carries three times more passengers than a bus. A tram is 100 tons. Luas drivers do not get triple pay for working Sundays and public holidays. Luas workers don't benefit from subsidized canteens. Luas workers dont have subsidized medical care for their families like DB do. Luas does not depend on tax payer through subvention payments like DB, IR, BE or DART, to the tune of 30billion per annum. (all of which are non profit making companies ) Tram services run later than other other public service. Luas operates to 98% effiency.
DB drivers do not have to tow their vehicles if they breakdown.

While you obviously feel strongly on the issues, I would advise against entering into an "us v them" battle. Each job (bus, tram, train) is different and all carry their own unique problems. If there is a strike coming, you will be relying on the support of the public. Many people respect the duties of a bus driver and realise it's a stressful job. A bunch of Luas drivers coming along saying their job is worse than a bus driver won't win them any favors. If you believe there are safety issues at risk then point them out to the public in a clear manner. The reality on the ground is that nobody really cares if bus drivers have a subsidised canteen and Luas drivers don't. Times are hard, many of the thousands of Luas passengers carried each day have their own financial and employment worries, so if you're going to add to their daily problems, at least present your strike reasons fairly and clearly. It's also worth remembering that bus drivers are currently dealing with proposed changes to their own employment conditions.

travis.bickle wrote: »

I do believe that since the Luas started the trams have increased from 30 metres to 40 metres and the lines have been extended now serving Point, and Saggart, and Greenline has now doubled from original service?

Did the Luas operator stick to its original ticket pricing??

Again, I'm not sure this is a reason to strike or look for a pay increase. Driving a 30 meter tram is not much different to driving a 40 meter tram. Dart drivers tried using this excuse for a pay increase and it failed. I don't see how it would be any different for Luas. Unless it was stated in your contract that you would only operate a certain stretch of line, then I don't see what difference it would make if you were driving a tram to Saggart or Tallaght. As a daily Luas passenger, one thing which has stood out in the last 12/18 months is how there are now less passengers using the trams. There is a also a reduced frequency on the service than there was this time last year. The timetable was also changed with some services now finishing earlier. All of these factors will arise in any battle between staff and management/unions.

The Idyll Race

Tickityboo wrote: »

How many billions of tax payers money has been spent and a lot more to be spent on the luas? It would add up to a hell of alot of years subvention for C.I.E.

Because a bus based transport system was such a thrilling success?

confusia

I work in government and I can assure all readers that the RPA has never received a cent in operating subsidy for the LUAS. In this respect its self sufficient.

There has of course been capital expenditure partly funded by the taxpayer, partly funded by our colleagues in the european union to build the infrastructure. Thats no different to the contruction of the port tunnel, purchase of trains, busses, Trams or the provision of hospitals and schools.

As a society we are obliged to provide public transport and through a process of continuous improvment are required to upgrade these projects. Is there anybody who doesnt believe the LUAS has been a phenomenal success?? If so they are seriously ill informed individuals.

Our public transport system is not purely for profit. This is why we run it through socially disadvantaged areas and this is why the LUAS will continue to receive funding from the taxpayer. Its not to pay wages, it is to provide a service to the citizens of Ireland and for the business who operate here.

The private operator charged with operating the LUAS should use their profits to improve the conditions of their workforce. Afterall, the staff drive the success.

I urge you all to read oireachtas briefings from 2003. The LUAS was originally expected to be non-profit. The target was for the system to break even. It has far exceeded this so those who deliver that success should share in the operating profits made. Travis suggests that the company have improved the conditions of one grade and not the other in the company.

Thats a bad management decision and should be rectified.

confusia

KD345 is spot on!! Lets hear the reasons for strike rather than bitching about CIE conditions

What is driving LUAS staff to the picket line??

AlekSmart

KD345 wrote: »

As a daily Luas passenger, one thing which has stood out in the last 12/18 months is how there are now less passengers using the trams. There is a also a reduced frequency on the service than there was this time last year. The timetable was also changed with some services now finishing earlier. All of these factors will arise in any battle between staff and management/unions.

This aspect is what will decide the issue IMO,just as it has decided the Dublin Bus issue.

I actually believe that in recessionary times,Public Transport should be in the ascendant,with more people unable to maintain cars or other private means.

The future for ALL modes of Public Transport is dependent upon securing increased useage,something which both Veolia/RPA and Dublin Bus/NTA appear spectacularly oblivious to.

As KD345 points out,significant numbers of 40 Mtr trams are travelling between Red Cow and Tallaght/Saggart with single figure loads after 1830.

One of the reasons for this is the unwillingness to tackle the anti-social behaviour issues arising on the Red Line & Extension,the exact same unwillingness which eventually led to the emasculation of Tallaght's once comprehensive public Bus services.

It also should be borne in mind that the Terms and Conditions of Tram Drivers employment have been an issue since the inception of the service,with the present impasse representing the end of a long and hard negotiating road.

Tickityboo

markpb wrote: »

Tickityboo wrote: »

How many billions of tax payers money has been spent and a lot more to be spent on the luas? It would add up to a hell of alot of years subvention for C.I.E.

What do you mean? If you mean the cost of construction and later expansion, surely the same applies to the Dart network?

Of course it does.
I just said that because the OP keeps banging on about tax payers money funding Dublin Bus as if the luas hasn't and won't cost the tax payer anything.

Millem

dowlingm wrote: »

travis - the thing about agreements is that both sides have to agree to changes :rolleyes:

cookie - here in Toronto there's a lot of friction about when streetcar drivers get to have rest/toilet breaks because of insufficient facilities at termini.

Agreed. Spent a bit of time in T 2 years ago (lived in yorkville) and that was a major issue

dowlingm

confusia said "I work in government"

Uh huh.

"and I can assure all readers that the RPA has never received a cent in operating subsidy for the LUAS. In this respect its self sufficient."

While RPA may not have received subsidy TO DATE they retained profits against lean years in the future. In the Engineers Ireland presentation on Line BX-D by RPA it was mentioned that RPA had to draw on that reserve against a shortfall.

Hmm... let's download the 2011 annual report of RPA and take a look (PDF)

During 2011 the Infrastructure Business reported a deficit before interest and tax of €3.3m (2010 surplus €1.1m) as costs of extended services to Cherrywood and Citywest exceeded the revenues generated by these new routes. The Infrastructure Business has the capacity, in the short term, to fund operating deficits from accumulated cash reserves generated between 2005 and 2010. Given the current capacity to fund operational deficits it was not necessary in 2011 for RPA to request an operating subvention from the National Transport Agency.

(Emphasis added.) This quote shows RPA is self-sufficient over a long term as long as it can make enough in good years to stock against the lean. We may see a future request to NTA if the lean years continue or worsen.

"The LUAS was originally expected to be non-profit. The target was for the system to break even."

I think you think those two things (non-profit and break-even) are the same. They aren't. Veolia has a commercial agreement with RPA - they are not a State company and are not a charity. They tendered for a contract in competition with others, a tender which specified a profit level. Many other people supply the LUAS through Veolia, they also make profits.

Mention was made by someone else about Red Line going from 30m to 40m trams. An increase in pay would have been indicated IF Green tram drivers (40m from day one) were making more. I don't think they were.

Marcusm

confusia wrote: »

I work in government and I can assure all readers that the RPA has never received a cent in operating subsidy for the LUAS. In this respect its self sufficient.

There has of course been capital expenditure partly funded by the taxpayer, partly funded by our colleagues in the european union to build the infrastructure. Thats no different to the contruction of the port tunnel, purchase of trains, busses, Trams or the provision of hospitals and schools.

As a society we are obliged to provide public transport and through a process of continuous improvment are required to upgrade these projects. Is there anybody who doesnt believe the LUAS has been a phenomenal success?? If so they are seriously ill informed individuals.

Our public transport system is not purely for profit. This is why we run it through socially disadvantaged areas and this is why the LUAS will continue to receive funding from the taxpayer. Its not to pay wages, it is to provide a service to the citizens of Ireland and for the business who operate here.

The private operator charged with operating the LUAS should use their profits to improve the conditions of their workforce. Afterall, the staff drive the success.

I urge you all to read oireachtas briefings from 2003. The LUAS was originally expected to be non-profit. The target was for the system to break even. It has far exceeded this so those who deliver that success should share in the operating profits made. Travis suggests that the company have improved the conditions of one grade and not the other in the company.

Thats a bad management decision and should be rectified.

I hope you're not in a financial management role nor one guiding investment. It's not much of a claim to state that there has nt been any subsidisation of the operating costs while at the same time indicating that the RPA had the capital costs fully paid by central government. That is money too!!! A properly managed system would consider what subsidy is inherent in the capital investment, it sounds like 100%.

The Idyll Race

Marcusm wrote: »

I hope you're not in a financial management role nor one guiding investment. It's not much of a claim to state that there has nt been any subsidisation of the operating costs while at the same time indicating that the RPA had the capital costs fully paid by central government. That is money too!!! A properly managed system would consider what subsidy is inherent in the capital investment, it sounds like 100%.

A post like this makes me visualise a bunch of second year B.Comm students in UCD, all coming from Mount Merrion and saying to each other "what a woiste of mony public transport is, where's me heino Oisin?"

o1s1n

travis.bickle wrote: »

@ O1s1n .........So if your fellow employees conditions of employment became more substantial than yours, you would just keep your mouth shut and keep your head down? You sound like a perfect employee for Veolia Transdev. Maybe you should apply for a job ;-)

More substantial to what degree?

If my fellow employees were suddenly being paid more than me, I'd contact my managers asking why (and put forward an argument to get me the same)

If they said no, and gave me a good explanation as to why (IE - my fellow employees were doing more/working harder/deserved a raise) - then so be it.

If they couldn't give me a valid reason, I might start looking for another job.

At no point in the above do I 'strike' or anything else which will cause a disruption to a service. It's ridiculous behavior. (especially if it affects the general public, such as the LUAS service)

And as for applying for a job, going by some of the salaries I've read above, it's not the least attractive idea in the world.

confusia

Marcusm wrote: »

I hope you're not in a financial management role nor one guiding investment. It's not much of a claim to state that there has nt been any subsidisation of the operating costs while at the same time indicating that the RPA had the capital costs fully paid by central government. That is money too!!! A properly managed system would consider what subsidy is inherent in the capital investment, it sounds like 100%.

Should we not build motorways because the capital costs can not be recovered. Why bother with public transport at all? How about we close the line from Heuston to Tallaght and just keep it running from Heuston to the Point. Thats where the profit is to be had. Why not revert the Green line to run Sandyford to St Stephens green and forget Ballyogen wood altogether. No public transport system anywhere in the world properly managed or otherwise can cover the capital expenditure required for the build and upkeep of the infrastructure. Port Tunnel-900millionish;. How much recovered??

Was it worth it? Less traffic congestion in the city and less cyclist being crushed by 18-wheelers

The point is the LUAS runs half empty trams off peak in socially disadvantaged areas until 12.30am as a public service , NOT FOR A HEDGEFUND and has made an operating profit year on year requiring no operating subvention. So I am quite happy with my claim!

Passenger Numbers dipped to 25.5million pasengers in 2009 but continue to grow

In 2010

<LI sizset="204" sizcache="67">

Dublin Bus numbers fell to 119 million journeys, a drop of 7pc.
[*]Bus Eireann figures were also down 7pc, to 39.9 million.
[*]Luas saw an increase of just over 6pc, up to 27 million.
[*]Iarnrod Eireann experienced a slight rise of 3pc, up to 39.65 million.
In 2011

Passenger journeys are expected to be approximately 28.5million.

The Idyll Race

confusia wrote: »

Should we not build motorways because the capital costs can not be recovered. Why bother with public transport at all? How about we close the line from Heuston to Tallaght and just keep it running from Heuston to the Point. Thats where the profit is to be had. Why not revert the Green line to run Sandyford to St Stephens green and forget Ballyogen wood altogether. No public transport system anywhere in the world properly managed or otherwise can cover the capital expenditure required for the build and upkeep of the infrastructure. Port Tunnel-900millionish;. How much recovered??

Was it worth it? Less traffic congestion in the city and less cyclist being crushed by 18-wheelers

The point is the LUAS runs half empty trams off peak in socially disadvantaged areas until 12.30am as a public service , NOT FOR A HEDGEFUND and has made an operating profit year on year requiring no operating subvention. So I am quite happy with my claim!

Passenger Numbers dipped to 25.5million pasengers in 2009 but continue to grow


In 2010

• <LI sizset="204" sizcache="67">Dublin Bus numbers fell to 119 million journeys, a drop of 7pc.
• Bus Eireann figures were also down 7pc, to 39.9 million.
• Luas saw an increase of just over 6pc, up to 27 million.
• Iarnrod Eireann experienced a slight rise of 3pc, up to 39.65 million.

In 2011

Passenger journeys are expected to be approximately 28.5million.

You speak complete sense, but will be pilloried here because private enterprise can make money off the back of the motorways, both at the construction phase and during operation, but as an architect of my acquaintence says, "they can't make superprofits off the tramways and railways". The price of everything and the value of nothing comes to mind. Keep up the good fight.

confusia

Dowlingm said: This quote shows RPA is self-sufficient over a long term as long as it can make enough in good years to stock against the lean. We may see a future request to NTA if the lean years continue or worsen.

As previously stated, Passenger numbers are on the rise back to 28+million against an all time high of approx 30million in 2007, and there have been several price hikes in ticket prices since 2007


"The LUAS was originally expected to be non-profit. The target was for the system to break even."

Dowlingm said: I think you think those two things (non-profit and break-even) are the same. They aren't. Veolia has a commercial agreement with RPA - they are not a State company and are not a charity. They tendered for a contract in competition with others, a tender which specified a profit level. Many other people supply the LUAS through Veolia, they also make profits.

And therein lies the answer to the RPA's problems. in 2010 approx 44million was paid to veolia to enable them to reach their specified profit. If it was run by the state, the specified profit that veolia take would be retained by the state/RPA year on year and they wouldnt have had that lean year of a mere 3.3million.

dowlingm

If RPA ran the system itself we'd be in Croke Park hell with every other public service. Having companies operate LRTs on a contract basis is common in France for example, hardly a bastion of Thatcherism.

o1s1n

travis.bickle wrote: »

So if your boss told you that the first floor where going to get 23 extra rest days and have their working week reduced by 5 hours compared to yours because they had to eat at their desk would you just keep shut?

No, I would complain and try to have it changed. If going through the standard channels didn't work, I'd either suck it up and realize that life isn't always fair, or if I felt strongly enough about it, quit my job and find a better employer.

travis.bickle wrote: »

Then you fight for two years for parity and equality only to be told by the courts you can only have half and no reduction in your working week, because the pot is empty, what course of action is left for you??

If the pot is empty, the pot is empty. Where is the money meant to come from?

The drivers need to realize this - their demands won't be met 100% - They got something from the courts to better their current situation. That is a win.

As I said, they're not shackled to the drivers seat. If they really feel strongly about it, they can seek other employment. I don't see what striking will do other than to make the customers angry at the drivers.

alphabeat

go ahead , go on strike and see how the public will hate you for it .

j.mcdrmd

travis.bickle wrote: »

9 hrs with 1 hour break. DB max 8hrs inc 1hr break. Luas control work 8hr inc 1 hour break. Luas Drivers seeking parity under Railway Safety Act.

Luas drivers earn less than DB drivers! Luas stopping distance is 2.5 times that of a motor vehicle. Buses can swerve to avoid collisons. A tram carries three times more passengers than a bus. A tram is 100 tons. Luas drivers do not get triple pay for working Sundays and public holidays. Luas workers don't benefit from subsidized canteens. Luas workers dont have subsidized medical care for their families like DB do. Luas does not depend on tax payer through subvention payments like DB, IR, BE or DART, to the tune of 30billion per annum. (all of which are non profit making companies ) Tram services run later than other other public service. Luas operates to 98% effiency.
DB drivers do not have to tow their vehicles if they breakdown.

What would happen if you people were told that you report for work at 8am and you are rostered to be there for all of that day and all of that evening and all of that night and all of the following day, without pay beyond your basic hours? Because that is the current situation for doctors.

Pkiernan

travis.bickle wrote: »

9 hrs with 1 hour break. DB max 8hrs inc 1hr break. Luas control work 8hr inc 1 hour break. Luas Drivers seeking parity under Railway Safety Act.

Luas drivers earn less than DB drivers! Luas stopping distance is 2.5 times that of a motor vehicle. Buses can swerve to avoid collisons. A tram carries three times more passengers than a bus. A tram is 100 tons. Luas drivers do not get triple pay for working Sundays and public holidays. Luas workers don't benefit from subsidized canteens. Luas workers dont have subsidized medical care for their families like DB do. Luas does not depend on tax payer through subvention payments like DB, IR, BE or DART, to the tune of 30billion per annum. (all of which are non profit making companies ) Tram services run later than other other public service. Luas operates to 98% effiency.
DB drivers do not have to tow their vehicles if they breakdown.

What we need to do is find the terrorists who put guns to the heads of the Luas drivers and forced them to apply for those driving jobs.....

Oh wait.....

Lazy cnuts.

Pkiernan

The sooner those drivers are replaced by computerised systems, the better.

Safer (you won't catch a computer running the red light cos he got distracted by some birds arse), more efficient and they don't strike when half the country is on the dole.