Rail cuts on way after passenger numbers fall 25pc.

Run_to_da_hills

This was sort of inevitable with the roll out and completion of interurbans. I wonder will this knock the hourly Cork service on the head?

Intercity rail services are to be cut because of falling passenger numbers, the Irish Independent has learnt.

The move to reduce the frequency of some trains is also linked to soaring fuel prices, bus competition, and the impact of the new motorway network.

It reverses the rapid expansion of services and frequency of trains over the past decade.

Passenger numbers have been falling sharply as inter-city commuters find it just as fast and as cheap to drive or go by bus. Rail passenger numbers have fallen by 25pc in the last five years.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rail-cuts-on-way-after-passenger-numbers-fall-25pc-3214942.html

thomasj

the Irish Independent has learnt.

As did the rest of us yesterday.

Interestingly the original Rte article that was posted early yesterday was taken down and never put back up. Curious why that happened.

CIE

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This was sort of inevitable with the roll out and completion of interurbans. I wonder will this knock the hourly Cork service on the head?

Intercity rail services are to be cut because of falling passenger numbers, the Irish Independent has learnt.

The move to reduce the frequency of some trains is also linked to soaring fuel prices, bus competition, and the impact of the new motorway network.

It reverses the rapid expansion of services and frequency of trains over the past decade.

Passenger numbers have been falling sharply as inter-city commuters find it just as fast and as cheap to drive or go by bus. Rail passenger numbers have fallen by 25% in the last five years.

Irish Independent

Funny how they leave out the fact that the intercity railway network is still stuck in the 1950s (Dublin-Cork made it into the early 1960s with 100-mph running, huzzah) and the inherent conflict of interest with all the state ownership/operation of both buses and railways as well as the infrastructure that each runs on. (Motorways date how far back, too? Wait until their detriments catch up and Ireland "learns" what other countries have already learned about keeping up on the railways in terms of improvements; but no, Ireland can't take what other countries have learned the hard way in order to even bother keeping up with the curve, it seems.)

Incidentally, "interurbans" is a term that the USA applied to long-distance trams.

Cookie_Monster

thomasj wrote: »

Interestingly the original Rte article that was posted early yesterday was taken down and never put back up. Curious why that happened.

Gov owned news agency who were told to take it down would be the obvious and usual reason I imagine...

JeffK88

So .. that means the end of intercity rail by about 2020. Commuter Rail in 2025. DART might survive. I was once a railway user, now i couldn't care less if the whole thing was ripped up. IE has consistently done the same thing every year ' Raise Prices' . Now all their hourly services they loved banging on about are going.

dowlingm

JeffK88 wrote: »

So .. that means the end of intercity rail by about 2020. Commuter Rail in 2025. DART might survive. I was once a railway user, now i couldn't care less if the whole thing was ripped up. IE has consistently done the same thing every year ' Raise Prices' . Now all their hourly services they loved banging on about are going.

JeffK88 - they are being obliged to run uneconomic services on the Nenagh branch and WRC and their subsidy is being progressively cut. The number of passengers travelling has been reduced because jobs in Dublin have been lost, increasing the ratio between full fare and DSP-discounted/"how do I evade the RPU fine" travellers. While I do accept they make a balls of things in some respects they can't hold the line on fares while the previously mentioned conditions apply.

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

JeffK88 - they are being obliged to run uneconomic services on the Nenagh branch and WRC and their subsidy is being progressively cut. The number of passengers travelling has been reduced because jobs in Dublin have been lost, increasing the ratio between full fare and DSP-discounted/"how do I evade the RPU fine" travellers. While I do accept they make a balls of things in some respects they can't hold the line on fares while the previously mentioned conditions apply.

Which services are 'economic'? They may carry more passengers on the Dublin/Cork line than on the Nenagh branch but I doubt it's more economic or remotely profitable. CIE/IE as it's presently constituted is unfit for purpose and until it's massively reformed and the management and staff incentivised i.e. paid on performance or issued shares in the company nothing will change.

Losty Dublin

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Gov owned news agency who were told to take it down would be the obvious and usual reason I imagine...

Codswallop.

dowlingm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Which services are 'economic'? They may carry more passengers on the Dublin/Cork line than on the Nenagh branch but I doubt it's more economic or remotely profitable.

I didn't say profitable, I meant by economic "losing acceptable sums while transporting enough punters to justify itself". When talking about passenger rail you're always grading on a curve as you well know. The Nenagh branch couldn't even manage a 6 car set on the one day a year it could have filled one - when you don't need 6-8 buses to replace a rail service the rail service isn't really justifying itself.

As for issuing shares to staff - that never really worked out for Aer Lingus did it, what with letters of comfort and pension deficits and all sorts. While staff goodwill might improve the situation to a limited extent, it doesn't create double tracks or passing loops or feeder buses or anything else that would really transform a network needing 200 million a year to keep it going, a network which is likely to shrink in operating track miles at that.

Judgement Day

I don't know, the more I think about it the more it makes sense as the current situation seems to be one where the staff and unions care about one thing - the redundancy package. I'm sure there are still a few that still like driving trains but for the bulk of workers it's just a job which they find a pain in the hole and I know plenty of them. As for management - an early morning against a wall with fixed bayonets.

thomasj

JeffK88 wrote: »

So .. that means the end of intercity rail by about 2020. Commuter Rail in 2025. DART might survive. I was once a railway user, now i couldn't care less if the whole thing was ripped up. IE has consistently done the same thing every year ' Raise Prices' . Now all their hourly services they loved banging on about are going.

Oh rail will survive, just not as we know it. The more I look at it the more I think varadkar is preparing us for privatisation.

We might be dearer than the UK to travel by train in a few years :eek:

Stonewolf

Privatisation of IR would make a right balls of it. Too many people who are severely lacking in "joined up thinking" and have themselves not taken the experiences of other nations into account tout it as a magic bullet.

The magic bullet is shoving a foot up CIEs arse and restructuring the company into a self-feeding multi-mode transport operation using only best mode available for any given leg of a journey. Which of course assumes you can tackle it's crippling cultural issues first.

peppa 1986

There is a very efficient bus service from Limerick to Dublin and Dublin to Limerick. 10 euro each way and runs every hour. Was packed yesterday, standing room only. Very comfortable and goes from Limerick city centre to Westmoreland Street in Dublin. Train is inefficient, expensive and does not go to city centre. The vast majority of people using trains now seem to be those with free travel. Try buying a single ticket from Limerick to Dublin, sometimes more expensive than the return ticket. If the trains are going to survive, they need to be less expensive and more regular

Judgement Day

peppa 1986 wrote: »

There is a very efficient bus service from Limerick to Dublin and Dublin to Limerick. 10 euro each way and runs every hour. Was packed yesterday, standing room only. Very comfortable and goes from Limerick city centre to Westmoreland Street in Dublin. Train is inefficient, expensive and does not go to city centre. The vast majority of people using trains now seem to be those with free travel. Try buying a single ticket from Limerick to Dublin, sometimes more expensive than the return ticket. If the trains are going to survive, they need to be less expensive and more regular

I'm getting a bit bored of this - would somebody please post a link to back up this dubious statement.

Hungerford

Judgement Day wrote: »

I don't know, the more I think about it the more it makes sense as the current situation seems to be one where the staff and unions care about one thing - the redundancy package.

It does seem that Iarnrod Eireann appears to be operating as though it has a death wish at the moment. Although I was dismissed on the railusers forum for making this comment, I think it is worth stating here:

NIR is facing a similar funding crisis but its response has been the opposite to Iarnrod Eireann's. It has managed (more or less) to hold its prices steady, is taking advantage of high oil prices by expanding its free park and ride network and intends to maintain services and even increase those on its busier routes.

I am not saying that NIR are perfect but it is interesting that, despite the recession in the North, their passenger numbers rose by 3% last year and are expected to increase again this year. In some cases, they will be introducing longer trains soon to cope with demand.

And before any of Iarnrod's supporters dive in, I am aware that the NIR network is smaller than the Southern one and is operating in a different economy.

highlydebased

peppa 1986 wrote: »

There is a very efficient bus service from Limerick to Dublin and Dublin to Limerick. 10 euro each way and runs every hour. Was packed yesterday, standing room only. Very comfortable and goes from Limerick city centre to Westmoreland Street in Dublin. Train is inefficient, expensive and does not go to city centre. The vast majority of people using trains now seem to be those with free travel. Try buying a single ticket from Limerick to Dublin, sometimes more expensive than the return ticket. If the trains are going to survive, they need to be less expensive and more regular

That's nothing but barstool talk.

Judgement Day

Indeed, for all its faults NIR has always operated a more professional railway than CIE and with damn all in the way of a network remaining.

http://www.translink.co.uk/Goldline/Goldline-News/More-people-choosing-passenger-transport-as-bus-and-rail-passenger-numbers-exceed-targets/

channelsurfer2

their move to standardise fares has backfired on them here in the midlands anyway. before they standardised fares they were running a very successful 12 euro day return after 9.30am. now its 19 euro (22euro before 9.30 am) and the bus is only 10 euro. its that sort of thinking that will make it even worse.

Cookie_Monster

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Codswallop.

ah sorry, I though we were in Conspiracy Theories there for a while...

Judgement Day

On the subject of NIR, anybody know if they still produce an all-line timetable booklet?

Mushy

Judgement Day wrote: »

Indeed, for all its faults NIR has always operated a more professional railway than CIE and with damn all in the way of a network remaining.

http://www.translink.co.uk/Goldline/Goldline-News/More-people-choosing-passenger-transport-as-bus-and-rail-passenger-numbers-exceed-targets/

Had a fantastic experience with translink on the train to Belfast last week, was such a pleasure to be on.

The Idyll Race

Hungerford wrote: »

It does seem that Iarnrod Eireann appears to be operating as though it has a death wish at the moment. Although I was dismissed on the railusers forum for making this comment, I think it is worth stating here:

NIR is facing a similar funding crisis but its response has been the opposite to Iarnrod Eireann's. It has managed (more or less) to hold its prices steady, is taking advantage of high oil prices by expanding its free park and ride network and intends to maintain services and even increase those on its busier routes.

I am not saying that NIR are perfect but it is interesting that, despite the recession in the North, their passenger numbers rose by 3% last year and are expected to increase again this year. In some cases, they will be introducing longer trains soon to cope with demand.

And before any of Iarnrod's supporters dive in, I am aware that the NIR network is smaller than the Southern one and is operating in a different economy.

Translink/NIR, while structured similarly to the CIE empire, is worlds away in terms of committment to their railway and the goodwill of their staff towards retaining and promoting the railway.

A few years ago, the future of the Belfast - Coleraine - Derry line was under real threat. The Belfast Telegraph started a "Save our Railways" campaign and this was enthusiastically taken up by Translink and its staff.

Nowadays, the Derry line is being relaid and its future is secure, because the public voted with their feet and used the railway, and it has unequivocal political backing from all parties in Stormont.

We do not have that luxury and I believe no railway in the Republic is safe, because, like TV3 seeking the closure of RTE Two, private bus companies would be foolish not to have PR people spinning against the railways at every opportunity. Shills if you like.

In addition, if any community wants to retain its railway it needs to be used. Unfortunately, in practice, irregular and infrequent trains do not encourage use. NIR's Derry line came back from the near-dead because it generated traffic in two directions - Derry to Coleraine/Portrush and Coleraine/Portrush to Belfast. New and more frequent trains encouraged use. With the relay, line speeds on the Coleraine- Derry section will mean that for the first time in years the train will be competitive with the bus for end to end Derry to Belfast journeys. Something that appears to be anathema to all our bus-lovin' folks. It suits the advocates of private buses for the Irish railways to have mainly uncompetitive travel times.

If the railway is to survive or even thrive in the Republic, serious improvements must be made to travel times by whatever means necessary, decisions detrimental to the railway such as the removal of the Rosslare Europort railway station to an inconvenient corner of the port must be reversed and railways should be unshackled to do what they do best, moving people in greater comfort at quicker speeds. No one within twenty miles of a railway station should be ignorant as to what trains arrive and depart from their nearest station. Stop parking charges outside the Dublin commuter area, and every member of the CIE organisation should watch and learn from their Northern counterparts, if they don't show them the door with the minimum of fuss.

Wote

The Idyll Race wrote: »

Translink/NIR, while structured similarly to the CIE empire, is worlds away in terms of committment to their railway and the goodwill of their staff towards retaining and promoting the railway.

A few years ago, the future of the Belfast - Coleraine - Derry line was under real threat. The Belfast Telegraph started a "Save our Railways" campaign and this was enthusiastically taken up by Translink and its staff.

Nowadays, the Derry line is being relaid and its future is secure, because the public voted with their feet and used the railway, and it has unequivocal political backing from all parties in Stormont.

We do not have that luxury and I believe no railway in the Republic is safe, because, like TV3 seeking the closure of RTE Two, private bus companies would be foolish not to have PR people spinning against the railways at every opportunity. Shills if you like.

In addition, if any community wants to retain its railway it needs to be used. Unfortunately, in practice, irregular and infrequent trains do not encourage use. NIR's Derry line came back from the near-dead because it generated traffic in two directions - Derry to Coleraine/Portrush and Coleraine/Portrush to Belfast. New and more frequent trains encouraged use. With the relay, line speeds on the Coleraine- Derry section will mean that for the first time in years the train will be competitive with the bus for end to end Derry to Belfast journeys. Something that appears to be anathema to all our bus-lovin' folks. It suits the advocates of private buses for the Irish railways to have mainly uncompetitive travel times.

If the railway is to survive or even thrive in the Republic, serious improvements must be made to travel times by whatever means necessary, decisions detrimental to the railway such as the removal of the Rosslare Europort railway station to an inconvenient corner of the port must be reversed and railways should be unshackled to do what they do best, moving people in greater comfort at quicker speeds. No one within twenty miles of a railway station should be ignorant as to what trains arrive and depart from their nearest station. Stop parking charges outside the Dublin commuter area, and every member of the CIE organisation should watch and learn from their Northern counterparts, if they don't show them the door with the minimum of fuss.

I agree with all of the above, and would strongly suggest that Translink be converted into a cross border body and get them to run the Republic's transport system. CIE should be dissolved and get a body who know what they are doing to run things. They'll run the system well, and for the benefit of the travelling public. End the years of nepotism in Irish Rail and get people to work for Translink in the South who are capable of understanding what a transport service is and how to speak to the public.

Sponge Bob

peppa 1986 wrote: »

There is a very efficient bus service from Limerick to Dublin and Dublin to Limerick. 10 euro each way and runs every hour. Was packed yesterday, standing room only. Very comfortable and goes from Limerick city centre to Westmoreland Street in Dublin. Train is inefficient, expensive and does not go to city centre. The vast majority of people using trains now seem to be those with free travel. Try buying a single ticket from Limerick to Dublin, sometimes more expensive than the return ticket. If the trains are going to survive, they need to be less expensive and more regular

If one is a genuine advocate of heavy rail one should ignore the entirity that post at ones peril rather than nitpicking at it. So I quoted the lot. It perfectly described Galway Dublin where such has been the reality for years. The train gets Civil Servants, Pensioners and Stag Parties. Everyone on business drives or takes a bus.

The fare paying classes used to take the train because they could 'work' on it and get there and back faster than a stop everywhere bus on a congested shíte road. The bourgeoisie accepted cack coffee and dysfunctional staff in return for predictability.

Express buses and Motorwys changed everything and the other recent killer was the Smartphone where one can work without a table.

Ireland is a small country. BUSES have leveraged that smallness.

foggy_lad

Judgement Day wrote: »

On the subject of NIR, anybody know if they still produce an all-line timetable booklet?

For some people the railway is only a railway if they produce such things as all line timetables like they did in Victorian times and like those heralded by Michael portillo on his television series about old train journeys.

The rest of us live in the present.

dowlingm

Translink would be no panacea - look at how things were left get to the state they were before the wet spots work began. That things are getting better on the northwest line is due in part of political pressure and partly due the City of Culture, but works on the Dublin line have been put back because of no funds. And then there are the fleet issues, the competition from the "sister company", the Assembly being told the Gatwicks were available for service and now having more C4Ks than they can use.

As for the fear of privatisation - please tell me... who's buying? Who's the Michael O'Leary with the inclination and the money to take this on? First let's see how they do the operations/infrastructure split.

Judgement Day

foggy_lad wrote: »

For some people the railway is only a railway if they produce such things as all line timetables like they did in Victorian times and like those heralded by Michael portillo on his television series about old train journeys.

The rest of us live in the present.

Utter rubbish - mainline timetables for all of CIE's pathetically small railway existed well into the 21st century. The fact is that CIE can no more produce a timetable than they can run a railway. As for living in the present.. you live somewhere foggy but not the present.

bk

Sponge Bob wrote: »

If one is a genuine advocate of heavy rail one should ignore the entirity that post at ones peril rather than nitpicking at it. So I quoted the lot. It perfectly described Galway Dublin where such has been the reality for years. The train gets Civil Servants, Pensioners and Stag Parties. Everyone on business drives or takes a bus.

Yes, this is definitely what is happening on the ground, same to Cork now. Why take the train when you can take the bus for at least half the price and get their in the same time or better.

The Idyll Race, I actually agree with much you said, other then the shill comment. Private bus companies don't need shills. Very satisfied customers are happy to sign their praises.

I agree that if Irish Rail are to survive, they need to do everything possible to cut expenses, while keeping ticket prices down and most importantly reducing journey times.

The problem is I fear it is already too late. I think 10 years ago IR made a very bad strategic mistake in deciding to invest in capacity rather then reducing journey times. I think it maybe too late to reverse that mistake now.

Hungerford

dowlingm wrote: »

Translink would be no panacea - look at how things were left get to the state they were before the wet spots work began.

That wasn't Translink's fault. It was down to political game-playing between the various parties at Stormont and an extremely bus-orientated management in the 1980s.

And then there are the fleet issues, the competition from the "sister company", the Assembly being told the Gatwicks were available for service and now having more C4Ks than they can use.

The competition between NIR and its sisters is quite muted. Unlike IE and Bus Eireann they don't tend to run directly competing routes.

In terms of the C4K use, they are planning to use them to expand services by increasing the number of 6-car trains they run and by increasing frequencies on routes such as Belfast-Coleraine and Belfast-Whitehead.

dowlingm

Hungerford wrote: »

That wasn't Translink's fault. It was down to political game-playing between the various parties at Stormont and an extremely bus-orientated management in the 1980s.

How was Translink's management prejudices not Translink's fault?

At least they unlike IE have ministers willing to give answers to the Assembly when questioned, unlike "an operational matter for Iarnrod Eireann". There are things they do better, I'm just saying a takeover of IE by Translink would not be a guaranteed winner, and the recent furore over someone who asked for a ticket to Derry (after a previous incident five years ago and perhaps other ones which went unreported) shows there are some flat earthers to be rooted out there too.

The Idyll Race

dowlingm wrote: »

How was Translink's management prejudices not Translink's fault?

At least they unlike IE have ministers willing to give answers to the Assembly when questioned, unlike "an operational matter for Iarnrod Eireann". There are things they do better, I'm just saying a takeover of IE by Translink would not be a guaranteed winner, and the recent furore over someone who asked for a ticket to Derry (after a previous incident five years ago and perhaps other ones which went unreported) shows there are some flat earthers to be rooted out there too.

I've travelled to Derry from Dublin by rail and back at least twice yearly since 1982 and I never fell foul of the Derry/Londonderry nonsense.

end of the road

Hungerford wrote: »

It does seem that Iarnrod Eireann appears to be operating as though it has a death wish at the moment.

been operating that way since the days of CIE.

Hungerford wrote: »

I was dismissed on the railusers forum for making this comment

meh, says it all realy. not surprised, wouldn't expect anything more or less.

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

For some people the railway is only a railway if they produce such things as all line timetables like they did in Victorian times and like those heralded by Michael portillo on his television series about old train journeys.

he asked if NIR still produced one, whats your problem? what has victorian times and Michael portillo got to do with someone asking if NIR still produces a timetable booklet?

Hungerford

The Idyll Race wrote: »

I've travelled to Derry from Dublin by rail and back at least twice yearly since 1982 and I never fell foul of the Derry/Londonderry nonsense.

I'm a relatively regular traveller to Derry by rail and I've never had any particular issues. I think that all organisations have such geniuses. I've always found Translink's staff quite helpful and obliging unlike their colleagues down South.

Hungerford

end of the road wrote: »

he asked if NIR still produced one, whats your problem? what has victorian times and Michael portillo got to do with someone asking if NIR still produces a timetable booklet?

They do still produce an all lines one but I am not certain if it is available to the public. I've only ever seen it in the possession of conductors.

Anyway, such a booklet isn't the hallmark of a victorian railway. They are very handy for a regular train traveller who has to make multiple connections etc. and doesn't have immediate access to the internet.

Indeed, from my travels abroad, I can recall several European railways which have detailed timetable booklets for individual services, listing all the possible connections at each stop.

Losty Dublin

The main reasons why NIR has had a minor growth in numbers is because it's primarily a suburban railway operating in a local economy that's pretty stable. Replacing it's 40 and 50 year old 450 and 80 class railcar sets and gradual station and track work investment hasn't done any harm either but it has taken 20 years for the NI Office to fund these to where NIR is today.

The Idyll Race

Hungerford wrote: »

They do still produce an all lines one but I am not certain if it is available to the public. I've only ever seen it in the possession of conductors.

Anyway, such a booklet isn't the hallmark of a victorian railway. They are very handy for a regular train traveller who has to make multiple connections etc. and doesn't have immediate access to the internet.

Indeed, from my travels abroad, I can recall several European railways which have detailed timetable booklets for individual services, listing all the possible connections at each stop.

Only in the bizarre Ayn Randian - world that is the Irish websphere be a useful thing like a unified timetable booklet be considered "victorian".

The Idyll Race

Hungerford wrote: »

They do still produce an all lines one but I am not certain if it is available to the public. I've only ever seen it in the possession of conductors.

Anyway, such a booklet isn't the hallmark of a victorian railway. They are very handy for a regular train traveller who has to make multiple connections etc. and doesn't have immediate access to the internet.

Indeed, from my travels abroad, I can recall several European railways which have detailed timetable booklets for individual services, listing all the possible connections at each stop.

I've never had a problem getting one at Belfast Central. Ask and ye shall receive, and it has been free for years. It was always a bit more problematic getting the Irish Rail one when it was published.

dowlingm

VIA Rail's online copy of the printed timetables are dire. They group some services together but then put services which run largely parallel to them on other pages. Services in one direction on a separate PDF to t'other. Terrible stuff.

foggy_lad

Not many people on the 6.30 cork-Dublin service tonight. A 3 car 22000 would have been too big for the numbers travelling. Also the ticket office has been closed since 5.30 at least.

Run_to_da_hills

foggy_lad wrote: »

Not many people on the 6.30 cork-Dublin service tonight. A 3 car 22000 would have been too big for the numbers travelling. Also the ticket office has been closed since 5.30 at least.

A 2750 Class would have been sufficient.

corktina

foggy_lad wrote: »

Not many people on the 6.30 cork-Dublin service tonight. A 3 car 22000 would have been too big for the numbers travelling. Also the ticket office has been closed since 5.30 at least.

I was on the 15.29 Mallow to Cork and that was empty too. Also the ride was chroinc and the train went so slow....a far cry from my last ride, which was in a Mk3...lovely smooth ride and at 125 mph! Does IE still use jointed track? Felt like it, surely wasnt CWR

foggy_lad

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A 2750 Class would have been sufficient.

It appears there is no train host unless they are swamped in 1st(CIE BOARD) class. The gates in heuston will probably be wide open allowing anyone without a ticket a free ride. Reservations are all messed up, none at all showing leaving cork but when stopped at mallow lots lit up showing reserved from mallow but many had passengers from cork sitting in those seats! What a load of cobblers, this shower couldn't organise a p1ss up in a brewery!

dowlingm

corktina, I think Mallow-Cork is CWR, albeit 54kg and battered by a few decades of 201s. It will take a while for the new 60kg rail laying to reach the Blackwater I think, given that the last report was the laying operation was between Portlaoise and Ballybrophy.

corktina

felt almost like jointed track...I assume the welds are dipping then :-(

God those Mk4s are awful, hunting and squeaking and rattling and they are VERY basic inside, what about those tables? Just wide enough for a cup of tea!

CIE

corktina wrote: »

dowlingm wrote: »

corktina, I think Mallow-Cork is CWR, albeit 54kg and battered by a few decades of 201s. It will take a while for the new 60kg rail laying to reach the Blackwater I think, given that the last report was the laying operation was between Portlaoise and Ballybrophy

felt almost like jointed track...I assume the welds are dipping then :-(

God those Mk4s are awful, hunting and squeaking and rattling and they are VERY basic inside, what about those tables? Just wide enough for a cup of tea!

If it feels like jointed track, then it's more likely lots of flat spots, which means the brakes on the carriages lock up too frequently. Either that or IE doesn't use rail grinders very often.

(I wonder if I should make a "Miss us yet" poster out of a pic of Mark 3s...)

corktina

nope, wheel flats were the one thing I didn't detect

corktina

i should add single Mallow to Cork cost me €9.80.... just checked Bus Eireann, same journey €7.50 had I thought of it AND it goes into Cork City Centre...

dowlingm

corktina wrote: »

i should add single Mallow to Cork cost me €9.80.... just checked Bus Eireann, same journey €7.50 had I thought of it AND it goes into Cork City Centre...

Probably because Mallow not considered "commuter/short hop"? Midleton by contrast is 4.80 single, the most expensive far on the Cobh/Midleton line

CIE

dowlingm wrote: »

corktina wrote: »

I should add single Mallow to Cork cost me €9.80.... just checked Bus Eireann, same journey €7.50 had I thought of it and it goes into Cork City Centre

Probably because Mallow not considered "commuter/short hop"? Midleton by contrast is €4.80 single, the most expensive by far on the Cobh/Midleton line

Don't see why Mallow isn't a "short hop" at 22 miles (35 km). Distances are just about the same as Dublin-Balbriggan and Dublin-Kilcoole, which are both at the periphery of Dublin's "short hop" range on the commuter railway network. And the €2.30 fare difference on BE is not so easily explicable no matter what yardstick (or metrestick) is used, i.e. apart from conflict of interest.

General question to those who may know: What with Dublin Bus' route 66 no longer serving Kilcock, would Kilcock railway station still be included in the Dublin "short hop" range, or was it ever so included?

The Idyll Race

CIE wrote: »

Don't see why Mallow isn't a "short hop" at 22 miles (35 km). Distances are just about the same as Dublin-Balbriggan and Dublin-Kilcoole, which are both at the periphery of Dublin's "short hop" range on the commuter railway network. And the €2.30 fare difference on BE is not so easily explicable no matter what yardstick (or metrestick) is used, i.e. apart from conflict of interest.

General question to those who may know: What with Dublin Bus' route 66 no longer serving Kilcock, would Kilcock railway station still be included in the Dublin "short hop" range, or was it ever so included?

Kilcock from the start was Medium Hop with eye watering walk on fares compared to Maynooth.