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Spent Convictions (E&W) and Section 160 of the CJA 1988

  • 29-08-2012 10:46pm
    #1
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭


    Does anyone know if convictions under section 160 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 can be spent under the Rehabilitation Offenders Act 1974?

    It's essentially can people convicted of possessing indecent pictures of children and placed on the 'sex offenders register' have their convictions spent?

    Will Ireland follow a similar policy?


Comments

  • #2
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Spent Convictions Bill 2012 currently going through the Dail.

    In relation to you question relation to UK legislation, have no idea.


  • #3
    Tom Young
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,338 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tom Young


    Oh me oh my!


  • #4
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    Tom Young wrote: »
    Oh me oh my!

    What have I done now?


  • #5
    Tom Young
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,338 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tom Young


    See here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/act/pub/0022/index.html

    Note reverse onus clauses. If that's where you were going.

    Then, part ii of this Act: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0018/index.html

    Cogito ergo sum.


  • #6
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Tom Young wrote: »
    See here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/act/pub/0022/index.html

    Note reverse onus clauses. If that's where you were going.

    Then, part ii of this Act: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0018/index.html

    Cogito ergo sum.

    I'm not sure that answers the OP's question which had 2 parts , the first if a person convicted in the UK of having child pornography, who as part of his punishment is required to be on the sex Ofenders register, is that person able to take advantage of the UK rehabilitation of Ofenders Act 1974. (the best way to answer this question is to study the UK legislation)

    The second question I think is does Ireland have or will it have similar legislation in relation to spent convictions/ and will it allow such a conviction to be spent here (again answer is in the spent convictions bill 2012)


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  • #7
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    I'm not sure that answers the OP's question which had 2 parts , the first if a person convicted in the UK of having child pornography, who as part of his punishment is required to be on the sex Ofenders register, is that person able to take advantage of the UK rehabilitation of Ofenders Act 1974. (the best way to answer this question is to study the UK legislation)

    The second question I think is does Ireland have or will it have similar legislation in relation to spent convictions/ and will it allow such a conviction to be spent here (again answer is in the spent convictions bill 2012)

    Thats it alright - I'll have a read of the Bill - I have to admit to stupidity on that one.

    As for the E&W legislation - I can't make head nor tales of it - makes the think the guys at irishstatutebook.ie are doing a wonderful job. I've had a read though some of the E&W legislation but I suppose I have to admit to looking for a short cut on that one.


  • #8
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Procrastastudy wrote: »
    Thats it alright - I'll have a read of the Bill - I have to admit to stupidity on that one.

    As for the E&W legislation - I can't make head nor tales of it - makes the think the guys at irishstatutebook.ie are doing a wonderful job. I've had a read though some of the E&W legislation but I suppose I have to admit to looking for a short cut on that one.

    The 1974 Act sets out if a particular crime can be spent, so I would think if the 1988 Act does not exclude the effect of the 74 Act then it should apply. In Ireland an Act must exclude the Probation of Offenders Act 1901 (example drink driving) if not excluded then it applies.


  • #9
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    Is it me or does legislation from the UK seem much more complex that legislation here. That's not a meant as a criticism to either system - they just seem very different.


  • #10
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Procrastastudy wrote: »
    Is it me or does legislation from the UK seem much more complex that legislation here. That's not a meant as a criticism to either system - they just seem very different.

    No I think it is presented on line much better than here in that the act contains amendments.

    Also as an aside while correct to refer to England and Wales as a separate legal jurisdiction, in my opinion legislation is usually UK, as in the 1988 Act section 161 deals with Scotland, it does get confusing to make sure legislation cover each jurisdiction.


  • #11
    Tom Young
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,338 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tom Young


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    I'm not sure that answers the OP's question which had 2 parts , the first if a person convicted in the UK of having child pornography, who as part of his punishment is required to be on the sex Ofenders register, is that person able to take advantage of the UK rehabilitation of Ofenders Act 1974. (the best way to answer this question is to study the UK legislation)

    The second question I think is does Ireland have or will it have similar legislation in relation to spent convictions/ and will it allow such a conviction to be spent here (again answer is in the spent convictions bill 2012)

    T'was the will Ireland follow a similar policy boon that got me heading off looking for the analogous legislation, which it more or less is, save in the instance where we lack a spent convictions Act.

    Good night.


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  • #12
    NoQuarter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    Only the most fearless lawyers use statutebook.


  • #13
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    NoQuarter wrote: »
    Only the most fearless lawyers use statutebook.

    True so true, the PDF versions which contain all the GSO logo etc. should be safe enough (hopefully).

    I had to create a complete amended version of an Act a few years back, I have seen copies of it floating about, I know as I left in sections removed by later Acts, but with a strike through, so I could know what the act said before amendment.


  • #14
    Holsten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    In the UK, yes that conviction will eventually become spent.

    Here in Ireland, it will not.

    The Spent Convictions Bill as it stands now is a joke in my eyes, it needs to follow the british model much more closely if it is to do what it's intended to do - Give people with criminal convictions a chance to move on from their pasts.


  • #15
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Holsten wrote: »
    In the UK, yes that conviction will eventually become spent.

    Here in Ireland, it will not.

    The Spent Convictions Bill as it stands now is a joke in my eyes, it needs to follow the british model much more closely if it is to do what it's intended to do - Give people with criminal convictions a chance to move on from their pasts.

    I agree totally with you in relation to spent convictions bill, there are so many exclusions it pretty useless.


  • #16
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    Holsten wrote: »
    In the UK, yes that conviction will eventually become spent.

    Here in Ireland, it will not.

    The Spent Convictions Bill as it stands now is a joke in my eyes, it needs to follow the british model much more closely if it is to do what it's intended to do - Give people with criminal convictions a chance to move on from their pasts.

    I ask this honestly not as a finger waggling exercise. Even those with serious convictions of this type?

    Granted they will still be barred with working with children under different legislation.


  • #17
    Holsten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    Procrastastudy wrote: »
    I ask this honestly not as a finger waggling exercise. Even those with serious convictions of this type?

    Granted they will still be barred with working with children under different legislation but I still have my reservations.

    What is a "serious" child pornography conviction? For the ROA it only goes by the sentence that you receive from the courts. Most of these convictions are dealt with by way of a community order.

    So most if not all will eventually become spent.

    They'll be on the SOR for 5/10 years, after that they are off.

    And they'll be ISA banned from working with children, but that will eventually stop too.


  • #18
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    Holsten wrote: »
    And they'll be ISA banned from working with children, but that will eventually stop too.

    Sorry to be thick - would you mind clarifying that for me I didn't get the meaning.


  • #19
    Holsten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    I agree totally with you in relation to spent convictions bill, there are so many exclusions it pretty useless.

    Yes it's crazy, way too many offences are not included, and the time scales used are far too long.

    I know the Irish Human Rights Commission proposed some changes to it, to place it more in line with the UK version, but still more needs to be done.

    I think the British have a fantastic system, and we should just adopt that.


  • #20
    Holsten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    Procrastastudy wrote: »
    Sorry to be thick - would you mind clarifying that for me I didn't get the meaning.

    The Independent Safeguarding Authority in the UK. I don't know how it happens or if it is always done, but usually if you're convicted of a sexual offence in the UK you'll receive a letter from these people effectively banning you from working with children and vulnerable adults.

    This is already done in Ireland with the Sex Offenders Act, 2001.


  • #21
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    You mentioned it might stop though?


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  • #22
    Holsten
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    Procrastastudy wrote: »
    You mentioned it might stop though?

    Which is that?

    Everything will eventually stop... I think.

    I do believe that if one was on the SOR for 10years, it can be extended for life.

    You're conviction will be spent, you'll be off the SOR in 5 years, and I believe your ISA Barring will end at some point. I think each offender can apply to have it over, on a case my case basis.


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