Do three months of unpaid work or lose your dole: Warning to young jobless in benefit

matt-dublin

Why can't we do this here to try and shift some benefit cheats?

dailymail.co.uk wrote:

A pilot scheme launched yesterday will apply to new benefit claimants aged 18-24 unless they can show they have already had a significant job.

Full Story:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2194967/Do-months-unpaid-work-lose-dole-Warning-young-jobless-benefit-crackdown.html

xDramaxQueenx

matt-dublin wrote: »

Why can't we do this here to try and shift some benefit cheats?





Full Story:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2194967/Do-months-unpaid-work-lose-dole-Warning-young-jobless-benefit-crackdown.html

why drop it once the person gets to 24? plenty of older benefit cheats too.

phasers

It is actually a good idea, young people need to gain experience for their CVs and they're working in charitable organisations and stuff rather than Tesco


Seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to implement either.

kneemos

xDramaxQueenx wrote: »

why drop it once the person gets to 24? plenty of older benefit cheats too.

There are no benefit cheats anyone not working can't work.Nobody wants to live on a pittance.

up for anything

matt-dublin wrote: »

Why can't we do this here to try and shift some benefit cheats?

If a job is worth doing, it's worth getting paid for.

Overflow

kneemos wrote: »

There are no benefit cheats anyone not working can't work.Nobody wants to live on a pittance.

You can't be that naive, can you ? If I understand your poorly constructed sentence.

Culleeo

kneemos wrote: »

There are no benefit cheats anyone not working can't work.Nobody wants to live on a pittance.

We have the future Taoiseach amongst us.

Vote this man in.

up for anything

Overflow wrote: »

You can't be that naive, can you ? If I understand your poorly constructed sentence.

Why do people in glass houses throw stones? :rolleyes:

kneemos

Overflow wrote: »

You can't be that naive, can you ? If I understand your poorly constructed sentence.

If I understand you right you'r jumping on the Bandwagon and ignoring the fact that when we had jobs for everyone,everyone worked.

speedboatchase

up for anything wrote: »

If a job is worth doing, it's worth getting paid for.

Tell that to degree-holding journalism interns that need to work years before their first paid salary - nothing gets handed to you on a plate anymore, unless you're on benefits of course.

If sitting around and not looking for a job is worth being paid for, I'd prefer some enforced community service for those who aren't showing any initiative in their unemployment. If you're getting paid from people's taxes and not looking for a job whatsoever, you deserve a kick up the ar5e.

Overflow

kneemos wrote: »

If I understand you right you'r jumping on the Bandwagon and ignoring the fact that when we had jobs for everyone,everyone worked.

That's hilarious !!

ceegee

kneemos wrote: »

Overflow wrote: »

You can't be that naive, can you ? If I understand your poorly constructed sentence.

If I understand you right you'r jumping on the Bandwagon and ignoring the fact that when we had jobs for everyone,everyone worked.

Yeah, hence the 0.0% unemployment during the boom...

samina

kneemos wrote: »

Overflow wrote: »

You can't be that naive, can you ? If I understand your poorly constructed sentence.

If I understand you right you'r jumping on the Bandwagon and ignoring the fact that when we had jobs for everyone,everyone worked.

No they didn't, and your ignoring the fact that in families with children, living on the pittance is the same as living on the pittance of a minimum wage.

kneemos

ceegee wrote: »

Yeah, hence the 0.0% unemployment during the boom...

Pretty much.

the_syco

kneemos wrote: »

There are no benefit cheats anyone not working can't work.Nobody wants to live on a pittance.

Who will mind the children of the single mothers?

kneemos

samina wrote: »

No they didn't, and your ignoring the fact that in families with children, living on the pittance is the same as living on the pittance of a minimum wage.

They're not dole cheats,they're just looking after thier famlies.

Stimpyone

Hypothetical case.

What if a family of five lived on your street. Mammy, Daddy and three young kids. Mammy has a nice 4x4 Daddy has a BMW and a small van for his cleaning business. Only the van is taxed and none of them have an NCT.

So far this year the family have been on two foreign holidays and the Dads been away for a couple of weekends with the lads.

Daddy is drawing the dole for himself and his dependants and has been since before the Celtic tiger crash.

Is he a dole cheat?. Hypothetically of course.

kneemos

We were talking about work shy people.

Banjaxed82

Stimpyone wrote: »

Hypothetical case.

What if a family of five lived on your street. Mammy, Daddy and three young kids. Mammy has a nice 4x4 Daddy has a BMW and a small van for his cleaning business. Only the van is taxed and none of them have an NCT.

So far this year the family have been on two foreign holidays and the Dads been away for a couple of weekends with the lads.

Daddy is drawing the dole for himself and his dependants and has been since before the Celtic tiger crash.

Is he a dole cheat?. Hypothetically of course.

With three kids, and this arsenal of vehicles, I'd say they're more than likely drug dealers.

bhamsteve

Hooray, looks like we're getting the generic dole thread.

In reply to the OP I can't see why someone who has never paid a stamp and is not in any form of training wouldn't benefit from work experience.
What about topping up the Dole of someone under 21 if they do 20 hours a week voluntary work?

saiint

work for 3months unpaid ? me bollochs id go out and beg rather then do that

bhamsteve

saiint wrote: »

work for 3months unpaid ? me bollochs id go out and beg rather then do that

It's not quite unpaid when the state is supporting you though. Maybe just earning a crust?

Conall Cernach

Call me old fashioned but I believe that if you do an honest days work you should be paid for it. Forcing people to do unpaid work amounts to slavery and it further depresses the economy as there is no incentive to provide paying jobs.

previous user

How is this article relevant to Ireland, this is being implemented in London.

bhamsteve

Conall Cernach wrote: »

Call me old fashioned but I believe that if you do an honest days work you should be paid for it. Forcing people to do unpaid work amounts to slavery and it further depresses the economy as there is no incentive to provide paying jobs.

I'd agree, but on the other hand should someone who has never worked at least display a willingness to work before they can register as unemployed?
There's litter to be picked, old people to help with shopping, various other community based voluntary work that people could do. I'm unemployed myself at the moment and find joining the queue to sign on soul destroying.

Conall Cernach

Conall Cernach wrote: »

Call me old fashioned but I believe that if you do an honest days work you should be paid for it. Forcing people to do unpaid work amounts to slavery and it further depresses the economy as there is no incentive to provide paying jobs.

you get paid your dole if you work
you don't get paid your dole if you don't work

=> paid work

carlmango11

It's not unpaid work.

It's not slavery.

Instead of the Government paying people to do nothing all day they're paying them to work.

How the flying **** is that slavery. People need to stop living in benefit-land where the dole is a career choice that everyone is entitled to. The world doesn't owe anyone anything and if the taxpayer is going to feed, clothe and house you then why the hell shouldn't you work for it.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

juan.kerr

kneemos wrote: »

There are no benefit cheats anyone not working can't work.Nobody wants to live on a pittance.

Clearly living on a different planet...

kneemos

juan.kerr wrote: »

Clearly living on a different planet...

Steer clear of the cliches bud.I think it makes perfect sense to have people work for the dole,even people on the dole would jump at the chance,just look at the waiting list for C.E. schemes.Logistically you would be dealing with a mammonth work force though.

Geuze

Short-term unemployment benefits are too low in Irl, lower than the USA (50% of former wages), Germany (approx 60-67% of former wages), and many other European countries. So JSB should be increased here, not cut.


However, the EU/IMF are correct to focus on the open-ended benefits that don't reduce with LT unemployment. After 1yr in Germany, the payment is 359pm or 83pw, plus health ins, plus housing benefit. After 99 wks in the USA, unemployment payments finish.


So we should abolish JSA ("the dole"), and instead offer jobs to the long-term unemployed. There is plenty of work to be done. I suggest 250pw. This may actually cost more than the current system, but will give the dignity of work.

kneemos

Geuze wrote: »

Short-term unemployment benefits are too low in Irl, lower than the USA (50% of former wages), Germany (approx 60-67% of former wages), and many other European countries. So JSB should be increased here, not cut.


However, the EU/IMF are correct to focus on the open-ended benefits that don't reduce with LT unemployment. After 1yr in Germany, the payment is 359pm or 83pw, plus health ins, plus housing benefit. After 99 wks in the USA, unemployment payments finish.


So we should abolish JSA ("the dole"), and instead offer jobs to the long-term unemployed. There is plenty of work to be done. I suggest 250pw. This may actually cost more than the current system, but will give the dignity of work.

Good idea.

Boombastic

So 188x52 = €9776/year is nothing?



Great, would ya have the loan of a couple of grand, sure it's nothing

carlmango11

Geuze wrote: »

Short-term unemployment benefits are too low in Irl, lower than the USA (50% of former wages), Germany (approx 60-67% of former wages), and many other European countries. So JSB should be increased here, not cut.


However, the EU/IMF are correct to focus on the open-ended benefits that don't reduce with LT unemployment. After 1yr in Germany, the payment is 359pm or 83pw, plus health ins, plus housing benefit. After 99 wks in the USA, unemployment payments finish.


So we should abolish JSA ("the dole"), and instead offer jobs to the long-term unemployed. There is plenty of work to be done. I suggest 250pw. This may actually cost more than the current system, but will give the dignity of work.

Yeah actually maybe a larger distinction between long and short term unemployment is the way forward.

When you think about it it would probably accurately distinguish between the scroungers and the ordinary people who are just out of work. And even if there are some honest long-term unemployed then there's no harm in them training and/or finding employment until something more suitable comes along.

De Hipster

Boombastic wrote: »

So 188x52 = €9776/year is nothing?



Great, would ya have the loan of a couple of grand, sure it's nothing

Have you ever tried living on this amount? It's NOT a lot of cash, particularly in the likes of Dublin.

Food, travel, bills, etc and then try to apply for jobs on a consistent basis, internet connection, respectable clothing, travel to and from interviews...

Boombastic

De Hipster wrote: »

Have you ever tried living on this amount? It's NOT a lot of cash, particularly in the likes of Dublin.

Food, travel, bills, etc and then try to apply for jobs on a consistent basis, internet connection, respectable clothing, travel to and from interviews...

Yes

kneemos

carlmango11 wrote: »

Yeah actually maybe a larger distinction between long and short term unemployment is the way forward.

When you think about it it would probably accurately distinguish between the scroungers and the ordinary people who are just out of work. And even if there are some honest long-term unemployed then there's no harm in them training and/or finding employment until something more suitable comes along.

Is it really difficult to understand the reason we have long and short term unemployed is because there's no jobs.

juan.kerr

In fairness some people never wanted to work - you just have to look at the 'long term unemployed' when we had near full employment. They didn't have jobs because they diodn't want one.

sligoface

well OP, i'm sure if you were an 18-24 year old unemployed person who was desperate for full time work you would feel much different. and would you think it was fair that they did this to you and your generation, when other generations were able to get the dole. keep in mind that it's not the 18-24 years old who caused this recession. most of them weren't even adults when the banks were robbing the country blind, with the help of the government.

also, surprised no one has brought up the fact that young people on the dole don't even get the full rate, they get 100 euro from 18-22 and 144 from 22-24, even if they are not living with their parents and are paying rent. if you refuse an offer of work or suitable training, your dole can be stopped or reduced. that's from citizen's information website.

so we already have a measure in place, and we also already have people doing unpaid work in internships on the jobbridge program. people on this scheme get an extra 50 euro on top of the rate they qualify for. and for fas courses, you will get paid the full 188 per week even if you are 18-24. i was on a fas course and there was lads on it who already knew what was being taught (web design) but wanted the full rate. so they sat and watched movies and played games on their pcs.

also, you will have to pay people to supervise and train these poor young people who are on your brilliant work-for-dole scheme, and insure the scheme, do more admin, paperwork. that will cost far more than the 100 a week most of them are getting. because people are not going to do that for free, trust me. would you like to be in a position of trying to force people to work for their dole? I wouldn't.

i hate when these middle class or lower middle class people come out of the woodwork to rail against the half million out of work, as if there is half a million jobs for them to go to. who instead of looking at the corporations, banks and politicians that get insane money, claim vast expenses, and pay very small tax in proportion to what they earn, they blame the poor, as if it's the people struggling to get by on benefits who are stopping them from having more than an average life. wake up, the rich are never going to let you in their club, and your taxes are paying for politicians salaries and expenses, bank bailouts, etc. NOT for the dole.

if this scheme was implemented, you'd be paying more to run it than you are for the young to get a few quid to keep them going. keep in mind that many of the young people who are willing to work and whose family's have a bit of money, are most likely going to emigrate anyway due to the fact that there is no job for them here. the ones who can't afford to do that should have access to funds that will keep them fed, allow for the costs of jobseeking (a decent outfit for interviews, printing/posting cvs, internet, people already in jobs don't think about how that can cost a full time jobseeker) and also, keep them from looking for illegal ways to get cash.

instead of blaming the young unemployed who are only just becoming adults, and thinking some 'scheme' will sort them out, take a look at all the schemes we have tried, have any of them worked?

juan.kerr

juan.kerr wrote: »

In fairness some people never wanted to work - you just have to look at the 'long term unemployed' when we had near full employment. They didn't have jobs because they diodn't want one.

Those people aren't 18-24 years old now, are they?

later12

bluewolf wrote: »

you get paid your dole if you work
you don't get paid your dole if you don't work

=> paid work

For a 21 year old on the maximum personal rate that comes out at €2.56 per hour for a 9-5 job.

Paid work, indeed.

Quorum

bluewolf wrote: »

you get paid your dole if you work
you don't get paid your dole if you don't work

=> paid work

Boombastic wrote: »

So 188x52 = €9776/year is nothing?



Great, would ya have the loan of a couple of grand, sure it's nothing

If it's a full week, it's less than minimum wage. And UK dole is a lot lower than here.

=> slave labour

JohnnyChimpo

ceegee wrote: »

Yeah, hence the 0.0% unemployment during the boom...

Well, since no-one else has pointed out how underinformed you are on this issue, allow me to point out that a 0% unemployment rate would actually be highly harmful to an economy, for several reasons including lack of an available workforce.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_employment

Boombastic

Quorum wrote: »

If it's a full week, it's less than minimum wage. And UK dole is a lot lower than here.

=> slave labour

Yes you are right. we should pay them to do nothing and really ingrain the entitlement culture in to them.

In fact we should employ people to bring them their breakfast in bed and tickle their belly every morning, or would after lunch suit them better?

Quorum

Boombastic wrote: »

Yes you are right. we should pay them to do nothing and really ingrain the entitlement culture in to them.

In fact we should employ people to bring them their breakfast in bed and tickle their belly every morning, or would after lunch suit them better?

That didn't address my post at all. I'm sure you'd be only thrilled to work a full week for less than minimum wage. Especially as working brings extra costs. What larks!

the groutch

targeting the wrong people.
the majority of welfare cheats are in their 40s or 50s, claiming a whole rake of benefits and then going off doing nixers all day. those are the people who need to be targeted.

Stinicker

I see no problem with unemployed people being given work, however if this is to implemented then the unemployed person should be paid minimum wage of €8.65/hour for at least a minimum of 22 hours per week to equalize his unemployment payment.

Working for less is not acceptable and their is a social floor that needs to be preserved. Ireland is not the UK and our forefathers shot and killed the British over this type of thing, there was a time in Ireland when the British ordered people to work for food or else you could starve to death.

That is the sort of prevalent mentality that exists with the torys over there, the torys and thatcher destroyed the UK and Labour fell out of favor over Blair wagging Bushs tail on Iraq.

If a person goes to work then he/she deserves to be paid and not less than the market. If the UK Government tried to enforce working 30 hours for £50/week in Ireland it would lead to a similar insurrection to what their past bullyboy tactics resulted in. This won't happen in Ireland because there is a social floor and people's dignity has to be preserved. Just look at the situation in America with "poor White thrash" on the "other side of the tracks", is this something we really want in Ireland? Ireland's social divide is much smaller than in alot of countries and most underclass people in Ireland are that way by choice and often involved in Criminality, every scanger and lowlife in Dublin has the opportunity to live dignified and to better himself, £50 a week will only generate an entire new breed of scanger.

The Tory's can fup right off, give me Bertie Ahern and Fianna Fail anyday before any one of them silver spoon scummers.

old hippy

juan.kerr wrote: »

In fairness some people never wanted to work - you just have to look at the 'long term unemployed' when we had near full employment. They didn't have jobs because they diodn't want one.

You think? When I was unemployed, despite having a qualification and during the boom years I hated being down the dole & most people I met there didn't much care for it either.

old boy

Geuze wrote: »

Short-term unemployment benefits are too low in Irl, lower than the USA (50% of former wages), Germany (approx 60-67% of former wages), and many other European countries. So JSB should be increased here, not cut.


However, the EU/IMF are correct to focus on the open-ended benefits that don't reduce with LT unemployment. After 1yr in Germany, the payment is 359pm or 83pw, plus health ins, plus housing benefit. After 99 wks in the USA, unemployment payments finish.


So we should abolish JSA ("the dole"), and instead offer jobs to the long-term unemployed. There is plenty of work to be done. I suggest 250pw. This may actually cost more than the current system, but will give the dignity of work.

you forgot to mention that the cost of living is way cheaper in both these countrys, as some one who has lived abroad i i can vouch for my statement.

Rented Mule

Many countries require two years of service. Why not implement that instead ? Surely, two years of structured training/work experience helping to serve the needs of the country would make more sense in these economic times.

juan.kerr

old hippy wrote: »

You think? When I was unemployed, despite having a qualification and during the boom years I hated being down the dole & most people I met there didn't much care for it either.

In fairness some people never wanted to work

kneemos

juan.kerr wrote: »

In fairness some people never wanted to work - you just have to look at the 'long term unemployed' when we had near full employment. They didn't have jobs because they diodn't want one.

The only long term unemployed were probably unemployable,such as junkies or alcoholics.Genuinely can't fathom this theory people seem to have that there are hoards of people out there on the dole because they don't want to work.Less jobs =more unemployed.